Official Anoncoin chat thread (including history)

[gunzeon]

Maybe it's not helping anybody to release code into the public domain that is bleeding edge.

it's only reasonable that exhaustive testing followed by proved take up into the Anoncoin mainnet happen under very controlled circumstances;
 - debugging is simpler if the testers are using an "approved" build of the ZC libs

A configure option --enable-zerocoin and if chosen the build expects a dll/shared lib to be available

Naturally, when it's proved to work 100% it's source gets released of course, but only after a few weeks of heavy duty zANC Xactions ... no apology's required for just being plain careful !

[matthewh3]

Other upcoming dates:

September 15: the RSA UFO project ends, participants are rewarded, and the server source is released to our Github.

September 17: the first Zerocoin commits get pushed to our Github (Anoncoin/anoncoin, "zc" branch). As I said before, the public Github will lag 2 weeks behind active development in our private repository; this is to make things more difficult for copycat coins.

Yeah, maybe extending the two week time lag of the ANC Zerocoin github going public is not a bad idea IMO.  Maybe until it's at least on the test-net or possibly even until it's on the main-net.

What's the timetable for the myriad fork and have all three or all five chains been chosen yet?

[SmokingSkull]

This is an Open-Source project first and foremost. Think about what that means for a second.

"In production and development, open source as a development model promotes a universal access via a free license to a product's design or blueprint, and universal redistribution of that design or blueprint, including subsequent improvements to it by anyone."

    There are to routes we can go, 1) the open-source route or 2) the route taken by scam coins like DRK. Closed source is bad idea for Crypto Projects. Period. Anoncoin should be commited first and formost to the opensource ideals that the crypto-coin community is built on. Yes there will be cloning, yes they will rip us off. What makes Anoncoin great is not first mover status but the golden seal of a genuinely superior privacy product. Maybe a copycat will displace us, it will only happen if there product is genuinely better then ours. I'm Abhorred by the prospect of sacrificing our ideals for the sake of money. That is not what this project is about. Money comes second to the purity of our coins reputation. Somebody, will inevitability say. Oh look another darkcoin.
    We need to ask ourselves who does Anoncoin belong to? Do a little soul searching. Anoncoin belongs to everybody, it belongs to the traders and the miners and it even belongs to the and the haters and scammers and it even belongs to the cloners. That is the true nexus of an open-source coin.
    The community will rally behind this coin. The clones will eventually fade into the background. But if we give the community a closed source implementation it will stain us in a way that will never be lived down.

Very well said abyss.

[newb4now]

Other upcoming dates:

September 15: the RSA UFO project ends, participants are rewarded, and the server source is released to our Github.

September 17: the first Zerocoin commits get pushed to our Github (Anoncoin/anoncoin, "zc" branch). As I said before, the public Github will lag 2 weeks behind active development in our private repository; this is to make things more difficult for copycat coins.

I have thought a lot about this. If commits get pushed to Github as planned (before testnet) then I am done with Anoncoin.

Although I admire the honestly and hard work of our dev team I fear all will be lost. Other coins have larger development teams and are capable of copying our work quickly. Zerocoin integration is the only reason why I was interested in ANC.

The previous delays I could deal with fine as I know this project was a difficult one.  I just cant understand the rush to publish commits to Github before launch. Gnosis and Meeh worked so hard on this coin! Why allow others to copy your work so easily?

I really hope our dev team changes their mind on this and quickly.  Please speak up if you agree with me as time is of the essence. We don't want to wait a few more days (when commits to Github begin) and long term supporters start dumping ANC shares because other coins are stealing our work with a plan to launch before us.

I won't mention the names of the "other coins" here but a search of this forum will reveal several working on zerocoin integration now. Once our work is seen in Github, there will be many more

This is an Open-Source project first and foremost. Think about what that means for a second.

"In production and development, open source as a development model promotes a universal access via a free license to a product's design or blueprint, and universal redistribution of that design or blueprint, including subsequent improvements to it by anyone."

    There are to routes we can go, 1) the open-source route or 2) the route taken by scam coins like DRK. Closed source is bad idea for Crypto Projects. Period. Anoncoin should be commited first and formost to the opensource ideals that the crypto-coin community is built on. Yes there will be cloning, yes they will rip us off. What makes Anoncoin great is not first mover status but the golden seal of a genuinely superior privacy product. Maybe a copycat will displace us, it will only happen if there product is genuinely better then ours. I'm Abhorred by the prospect of sacrificing our ideals for the sake of money. That is not what this project is about. Money comes second to the purity of our coins reputation. Somebody, will inevitability say. Oh look another darkcoin.
    We need to ask ourselves who does Anoncoin belong to? Do a little soul searching. Anoncoin belongs to everybody, it belongs to the traders and the miners and it even belongs to the and the haters and scammers and it even belongs to the cloners. That is the true nexus of an open-source coin.
    The community will rally behind this coin. The clones will eventually fade into the background. But if we give the community a closed source implementation it will stain us in a way that will never be lived down.

I agree with you. I don't think anyone wants ANC to be closed source after main net launch. We are talking only about the current period before and during test-net. During that period trust is not an issue because main-net remains unaffected. We just don't want anyone to launch before us. Launching after us based on our code is both okay and unpreventable.

I think all of us agree that ANC should be completely open source once Zerocoin reaches main net.

[matthewh3]

Other upcoming dates:

September 15: the RSA UFO project ends, participants are rewarded, and the server source is released to our Github.

September 17: the first Zerocoin commits get pushed to our Github (Anoncoin/anoncoin, "zc" branch). As I said before, the public Github will lag 2 weeks behind active development in our private repository; this is to make things more difficult for copycat coins.

I agree with you. I don't think anyone wants ANC to be closed source after main net launch. We are talking only about the current period before and during test-net. During that period trust is not an issue because main-net remains unaffected. We just don't want anyone to launch before us. Launching after us based on our code is both okay and unpreventable.

I think all of us agree that ANC should be completely open source once Zerocoin reaches main net.

   This being an open source project. If I would very much prefer to build from source whatever experimental anonymity project I would be testing. If the devs of the clone coins were serious about building a superior ZC implementation they would have collaborated with the Anoncoin team. There is nothing but paranoia and a very unhealthy fear cloning that is feeding this lunacy.
   Even if somehow a different team managed to complete an accelerated implementation of our work, one month is an insignificant time to gain a strong lead in building the infrastructure to support it. Anoncoin already has the respect from the i2p community and a flawless reputation. Lots of of anoncoin supporters are programmers that will jump on the chance to build infrastructure for a vibrant community. the reality is that other copy cats will be supported by shills and traders and will follow the classic PnD trajectory.

Yeah but they're not implementing a one month delay are they?  AFAIK they said they'd only be having a two week delay to opening the ANC Zerocoin github.  A one month delay would be better or maybe even the full six weeks until the devs plan to have Zerocoin on the main-net would be best.  There's already a slew of PnD coins promising Zerocoin in their IPO.  While I feel they waiting on every second until that github starts to go public.  Off course the coin needs to be 100% opensource to be fully peer-reviewed and to help the wider cryptocoin ecosystem.  Lets just make sure that Anoncoin gets all the credit first for developing it.  By having Zerocoin on the main-net while slowly releasing the github with at least a six week delay.  Would give plenty of time for Anoncoin to benefit from the first to market effect.  I haven't read from one major cryptocoin news outlet or blog yet anything about Anoncoin or even anything really about zerocoin itself in quite some time.  While this has been a major challenge for over a year now in anyone implementing a Zerocoin or Zerocash protocol.  And Zerocoin has long been seen as the holy grail for true transaction anonymity that so many cryptocoin'ers have been looking for.  Far more anonymous than the CoinJoin protocol of Darkwallet, Darkcoin, and Blockchain.info shared-coin.  Plus even more anonymous than the ring-signatures technique of cryptonote coins like Monero and Bytecoin.  I just feel that I want to make sure that Anoncoin gets all the credit where the credit is due.  Just let's all let the news get out and for Anoncoin to take the credit.  In about six weeks time when they plan to have Zerocoin on the main-net that should be pretty big news in the crypto world.  And a good time to start making the ANC Zerocoin github public for the much needed peer-review.  That's my feeling and opinion anyway although in the devs we trust.

[TheKoziTwo]

I agree with you. I don't think anyone wants ANC to be closed source after main net launch. We are talking only about the current period before and during test-net. During that period trust is not an issue because main-net remains unaffected. We just don't want anyone to launch before us. Launching after us based on our code is both okay and unpreventable.

I think all of us agree that ANC should be completely open source once Zerocoin reaches main net.

This. The ZC release is about being first. If ANC releases source code and runs it on test net for a while someone with no ethics will copy/paste and skip the whole test phase simply to be first. It's possible that it will fail, not being tested, or it can succeed. But there is no reason to give a typical ponzi scheme pump n dump coin this advantage. Once it's put on main net it should be open source and by then anoncoin will be recognized for being first mover and clones will fade into obscurity as ANC rises.

Also, gnosis, post your BTC, ANC addresses please

[CoinHoarder]

Good luck to you guys, I have been rooting for Anoncoin to successfully implement Zerocoin, as I think it will be the most anonymous Cryptocurrency if you guys can do so. It is because of Anoncoin's attempt at Zerocoin implementation that I can't stand all the Monero shilling as being a sure bet.

I think if you guys successfully implement Zerocoin, you will be the Anon coin to beat. It is crazy to me that the Monero fan boys aren't the least bit worried about Anoncoin. I am not sure if they are just ignorant, or if they are trying to pump Monero up while they cash out. Either way it annoys me, so I have chosen Anoncoin as my most likely to succeed anon coin at this point in time. It seems Zerocoin implementation is imminent.

[niteglider]

This is an Open-Source project first and foremost. Think about what that means for a second.

"In production and development, open source as a development model promotes a universal access via a free license to a product's design or blueprint, and universal redistribution of that design or blueprint, including subsequent improvements to it by anyone."

    There are to routes we can go, 1) the open-source route or 2) the route taken by scam coins like DRK. Closed source is bad idea for Crypto Projects. Period. Anoncoin should be commited first and formost to the opensource ideals that the crypto-coin community is built on. Yes there will be cloning, yes they will rip us off. What makes Anoncoin great is not first mover status but the golden seal of a genuinely superior privacy product. Maybe a copycat will displace us, it will only happen if there product is genuinely better then ours. I'm Abhorred by the prospect of sacrificing our ideals for the sake of money. That is not what this project is about. Money comes second to the purity of our coins reputation. Somebody, will inevitability say. Oh look another darkcoin.
    We need to ask ourselves who does Anoncoin belong to? Do a little soul searching. Anoncoin belongs to everybody, it belongs to the traders and the miners and it even belongs to the and the haters and scammers and it even belongs to the cloners. That is the true nexus of an open-source coin.
    The community will rally behind this coin. The clones will eventually fade into the background. But if we give the community a closed source implementation it will stain us in a way that will never be lived down.

No one is suggesting changing to closed source.  All we are saying is that with so many copy cat devs working hard to capitalize on the work of our beloved developers, it might make sense to delay release of code until ZC is a working, proven project.  This is only to be sure that nobody can steal the work of our devs before their project is finished.

This is a very big deal.  This is history in the making.  I very much admire the desire to stick to principles.  Those principles are one of the main attractions.  But others who do not share those principles, and who have already in place very good marketing, might be able to steal the thunder before the lightning even strikes....  a couple of weeks additional delay would not compromise our devs principles, but could protect all the work they have already done.

It is worth thinking about.

[niteglider]

   This being an open source project. If I would very much prefer to build from source whatever experimental anonymity project I would be testing. If the devs of the clone coins were serious about building a superior ZC implementation they would have collaborated with the Anoncoin team. There is nothing but paranoia and a very unhealthy fear cloning that is feeding this lunacy.
   Even if somehow a different team managed to complete an accelerated implementation of our work, one month is an insignificant time to gain a strong lead in building the infrastructure to support it. Anoncoin already has the respect from the i2p community and a flawless reputation. Lots of of anoncoin supporters are programmers that will jump on the chance to build infrastructure for a vibrant community. the reality is that other copy cats will be supported by shills and traders and will follow the classic PnD trajectory.

It is not fair and a bit insulting to refer to the concerns of long time supporters as 'lunacy'.  We may not understand everything, but attacking us is.... well... lunacy. 

[niteglider]

I agree with you. I don't think anyone wants ANC to be closed source after main net launch. We are talking only about the current period before and during test-net. During that period trust is not an issue because main-net remains unaffected. We just don't want anyone to launch before us. Launching after us based on our code is both okay and unpreventable.

I think all of us agree that ANC should be completely open source once Zerocoin reaches main net.

This. The ZC release is about being first. If ANC releases source code and runs it on test net for a while someone with no ethics will copy/paste and skip the whole test phase simply to be first. It's possible that it will fail, not being tested, or it can succeed. But there is no reason to give a typical ponzi scheme pump n dump coin this advantage. Once it's put on main net it should be open source and by then anoncoin will be recognized for being first mover and clones will fade into obscurity as ANC rises.

Also, gnosis, post your BTC, ANC addresses please

This.

+10

[niteglider]

  This being an open source project. If I would very much prefer to build from source whatever experimental anonymity project I would be testing. If the devs of the clone coins were serious about building a superior ZC implementation they would have collaborated with the Anoncoin team. There is nothing but paranoia and a very unhealthy fear cloning that is feeding this lunacy.
   Even if somehow a different team managed to complete an accelerated implementation of our work, one month is an insignificant time to gain a strong lead in building the infrastructure to support it. Anoncoin already has the respect from the i2p community and a flawless reputation. Lots of of anoncoin supporters are programmers that will jump on the chance to build infrastructure for a vibrant community. the reality is that other copy cats will be supported by shills and traders and will follow the classic PnD trajectory.

It is not fair and a bit insulting to refer to the concerns of long time supporters as 'lunacy'.  We may not understand everything, but attacking us is.... well... lunacy.  

   lol. maybe were all lunitics . I personally bought my first anc coins back in December. i would consider myself a bonnified Anoncoin bagholder. One of my main wallets: AQDnusZcbFXNpvcNoK8p9mpJjBJxDhynB9
   I don't mean to attack anybody. I simply think that the cloning phobia is overhyped. Will it happen yes. will it be detrimental to the future of ANC, that remains to be seen. The only way i see a clone outpacing us is if they create a better implementation. Either way if someone forks the testnet implementation and makes a separate coin it will readily apparent in the source and will be taken at face value, ergo, a PnD.

Such a fork will be taken as such by those in the know.  At ZC release to main net, the first ZC released will be seen as the 'real' one by the masses.

[matthewh3]

Also please remember that Darkcoin did very out of keeping its Darksend closed source for so long.  it was in the top five cryptocoins by market capitalisation for a good while and it's still currently listed as in eighth place.  The ANC devs aim to have Zerocoin on the main-net in about six weeks time.  Why not start to release the code then with an eight week lag.  Instead of the two week lag starting on September the 17th.

[Skinnkavaj]

Also please remember that Darkcoin did very out of keeping its Darksend closed source for so long.  it was in the top five cryptocoins by market capitalisation for a good while and it's still currently listed as in eighth place.  The ANC devs aim to have Zerocoin on the main-net in about six weeks time.  Why not start to release the code then with an eight week lag.  Instead of the two week lag starting on September the 17th.

I would just waste my time on Monero, which is open source and working. Open source is a criteria for me to even consider investing.

Please lets try to focus on anonymity as a community in general, the right to privacy is the most basic right we have and it shall not be taken away from us.

[K1773R]

Also please remember that Darkcoin did very out of keeping its Darksend closed source for so long.  it was in the top five cryptocoins by market capitalisation for a good while and it's still currently listed as in eighth place.  The ANC devs aim to have Zerocoin on the main-net in about six weeks time.  Why not start to release the code then with an eight week lag.  Instead of the two week lag starting on September the 17th.

i like that idea, its unfortunately needed.

[entertheabyss]

Without denigrating any comment, I don't think we need to take Darkcoin as an example. From the start Darkcoin is based on lies and non-transparency. In my opinion this is why they will never succeed to get market adoption.

When Anoncoin will succeed to implement ZC, it will be the first truly and trustless anonymous coin. Every fork of ANC will be only Pump/Dump and fail.

Just some advertisement
Take the opportunity of this "high" to buy the Anoncoin T-Shirt with old logo (Guy Fawkes). Only 30 pcs are in stock! Then, I will produce a new T-Shirt with new logo A.

Hey Skaia, You site seems to use CloudFlare which notoriously blocks Tor Exit Nodes. Any chance you could disable it?

[varun555]

This is an Open-Source project first and foremost. Think about what that means for a second.

"In production and development, open source as a development model promotes a universal access via a free license to a product's design or blueprint, and universal redistribution of that design or blueprint, including subsequent improvements to it by anyone."

    There are to routes we can go, 1) the open-source route or 2) the route taken by scam coins like DRK. Closed source is bad idea for Crypto Projects. Period. Anoncoin should be commited first and formost to the opensource ideals that the crypto-coin community is built on. Yes there will be cloning, yes they will rip us off. What makes Anoncoin great is not first mover status but the golden seal of a genuinely superior privacy product. Maybe a copycat will displace us, it will only happen if there product is genuinely better then ours. I'm Abhorred by the prospect of sacrificing our ideals for the sake of money. That is not what this project is about. Money comes second to the purity of our coins reputation. Somebody, will inevitability say. Oh look another darkcoin.
    We need to ask ourselves who does Anoncoin belong to? Do a little soul searching. Anoncoin belongs to everybody, it belongs to the traders and the miners and it even belongs to the and the haters and scammers and it even belongs to the cloners. That is the true nexus of an open-source coin.
    The community will rally behind this coin. The clones will eventually fade into the background. But if we give the community a closed source implementation it will stain us in a way that will never be lived down.

No one is suggesting changing to closed source.  All we are saying is that with so many copy cat devs working hard to capitalize on the work of our beloved developers, it might make sense to delay release of code until ZC is a working, proven project.  This is only to be sure that nobody can steal the work of our devs before their project is finished.

This is a very big deal.  This is history in the making.  I very much admire the desire to stick to principles.  Those principles are one of the main attractions.  But others who do not share those principles, and who have already in place very good marketing, might be able to steal the thunder before the lightning even strikes....  a couple of weeks additional delay would not compromise our devs principles, but could protect all the work they have already done.

It is worth thinking about.

+100000

@DEVS:

History of Cyptocoins is not that long so as to be dead in our memory. Learn from it ( about the scale and audacity of the scammers). If you do not respect history, it too will forget you.

Kindly consider : Good is Good only if others respect it (wrt github releases), it's no use otherwise..... TO ANYBODY.

This development is the result of the sweat of your collective brow. If this development is as great as it is purported to be, then the first (and most enduring) lien on it should truly be only yours.

Consider : Development & fairness & prosperity can all go hand in hand   , without sacrificing any for the other. if it wasn't so, patenting could never have existed.
Lastly : It will be bad only if you never release it, but what morality inhibits you to taste your success both ethically as well as monetarily?

[sparta_cuss]

Other coins cannot clone the developers. This is important. People who think that the only value of a coin is its code forget that code needs to be maintained, and that other developers will want to build functionality on top of the code. ANC can be the place where people go to find the smartest guys in anonymity, and that is, I think, a way to market ANC when the source code is released. Let's remember that if implementing Zerocoin were all that straightforward, someone else would have done it already. So there really is something special about the development team here, something that, I hope, investors will choose to invest in.

[alincoln]

If someone here can make a nice catchy landing page, I can donate free traffic (~1.5k visitors/day) to raise awareness regarding the upcoming ZC launch.

Any takers?

[varun555]

Other coins cannot clone the developers. This is important. People who think that the only value of a coin is its code forget that code needs to be maintained, and that other developers will want to build functionality on top of the code. ANC can be the place where people go to find the smartest guys in anonymity, and that is, I think, a way to market ANC when the source code is released. Let's remember that if implementing Zerocoin were all that straightforward, someone else would have done it already. So there really is something special about the development team here, something that, I hope, investors will choose to invest in.

Release of code is not in contest here..... only the timing is.......

[sparta_cuss]

Other coins cannot clone the developers. This is important. People who think that the only value of a coin is its code forget that code needs to be maintained, and that other developers will want to build functionality on top of the code. ANC can be the place where people go to find the smartest guys in anonymity, and that is, I think, a way to market ANC when the source code is released. Let's remember that if implementing Zerocoin were all that straightforward, someone else would have done it already. So there really is something special about the development team here, something that, I hope, investors will choose to invest in.

Release of code is not in contest here..... only the timing is.......

Yes, I understand that. I think you missed the larger point about why someone would invest in one coin vs. another. If it's just the source code, then a clone is as good as the original. But my point is that it's not just the source code.

I am not making a case for any particular code release schedule. I am only pointing out that efforts can be made to characterize ANC as more than its code when the code is released.