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Author Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated  (Read 1050067 times)
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ANiceJewishBoy
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November 20, 2013, 05:57:37 PM
 #2121


Thanks for clearing that up and it makes total sense why all shares
go to the writers. However ask yourself why this is the case?

Because writers are the only ones that do things ALL the time and are creating SEO content constantly. Bounties are completed RARELY.

Ex: I spent more time sharing than writing last month (for Devtome on National Novel Writing Month pages) and I only got 15 shares because I was not doing things directly for Devtome. Someone else just joined and got 55. They must have spent tons of time writing and sharing article links.

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November 20, 2013, 06:06:42 PM
 #2122


Thanks for clearing that up and it makes total sense why all shares
go to the writers. However ask yourself why this is the case?

Because writers are the only ones that do things ALL the time and are creating SEO content constantly. Bounties are completed RARELY.

Ex: I spent more time sharing than writing last month (for Devtome on National Novel Writing Month pages) and I only got 15 shares because I was not doing things directly for Devtome. Someone else just joined and got 55. They must have spent tons of time writing and sharing article links.


All you have to do is increase the bounty per round and u will see them be completed regularily. This means share allocation is put on bounties.

Its like saying ad revenue is how devtome gets paid. How would you feel about that? All the writers get a share of the ad revenue based on the amount they write. This is kind of like the bounty system now.
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November 20, 2013, 06:08:02 PM
 #2123

how viable is it to mine dev coins these days?

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November 20, 2013, 06:08:42 PM
 #2124

how viable is it to mine dev coins these days?

Merge mine or don't bother

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November 20, 2013, 06:17:36 PM
 #2125


No way to do bounties when all the coins are going to writers dont you get it?

That's not quite correct. There is no rule at all saying that all coins should go to the writers.

The total number of coins distributed per round is fixed, but how it is allocated is completely flexible.

So, when a lot of writers are writing but no-one is doing development, the coins go to writers, but when there is a lot of development, the share the writers get is less.

A simple example: if there are just 5 writers in a round each getting 10 shares and no developers have participated, each writer would get 20% of the distribution. But if there are just five writers each getting 10 shares and a developer has claimed bounties for 50 shares, then each writer gets 10% and the developer gets 50% of the distribution.

So to "fix" the problem, all that needs to happen is that the shares allocated per development task is increased. If you up-ed it to 100 shares per development task for example, the portion the writers get will immediately drop. I don't know how unthinkingbit decides how much each development is worth, but I don't think anyone would object if he raised the bounties for development.

The "problem" if you like is that developers arn't really bothering to claim their bounties for the list of tasks already out there, but writers are, which is why it seems so lop-sided.

Thanks for clearing that up and it makes total sense why all shares
go to the writers. However ask yourself why this is the case? Why is it that there is no development going on? Advertisement? Im sure it has had the same scope as devtome. Maybe the fact that the static bounties were not taken up because they had to be worth more for someone to do it.. this is coupled with the fact that not many people knew about them.. however if the bounties were allocated shares every round until they were done I would say that we would have alot more development going on and more useful output from the project.

I guess what Im saying is that the bounties should not be static but based on a supply demand equilibrium. Supply being devcoin demand being amount of devcoin requested. As more supply is added each round demand will reach supply and bounty will be claimed. As more bounties get claimed visibility to the project will increase as well as marketing leverage to show others what has already been done. It should snowball from there. You have to agree that even though the floating bounty payout is decreasing work per dvc that it is still exponentially higher than the devtome work per dvc even with a rating system.


Devtome output is ad revenue and input is work for devcoin. While bounty output is increased awareness and usefulness in terms of something done for this or another project.

At the moment shares are only allocated to "work done". So if a writer hasn't written anything in a round, they get nothing, and if a developer hasn't developed in a round, they get nothing. Not sure how it would work out if shares were allocated to developers for ongoing work which wasn't complete - room for abuse there for someone to string out the work indefinitely...

I think the shares allocated per development task completed could certainly be increased. But whether anyone would bother is another matter. The devcoin price has fallen back so much that even writers arn't bothering any more - the last round had only a few articles, mainly from a couple of newbies enthusiastically trying it out for the first time. So if a developer had chosen that moment to complete a lot of tasks, they'd have scooped the jackpot!

As to why the developers don't bother - Devcoin doesn't get much visibility in general. The only developers who know it exists date from a couple of years ago when this was one of the few alts out there. I suppose we could advertise for developers in the Project Development part of this forum - but the problem of people second guessing the price will remain. It's not possible to know in advance how much a "share" is worth - it could be 400,000 coins or it could be 100,000 coins, so even if you knew that you would be getting say 20 shares, it's anyone's guess a) how many coins you'd get and b) what those coins were worth in BTC. People who want "guarantees" don't mix well with the crypto world because it's all so up and down...

 
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November 20, 2013, 06:49:16 PM
 #2126


Thanks for clearing that up and it makes total sense why all shares
go to the writers. However ask yourself why this is the case?

Because writers are the only ones that do things ALL the time and are creating SEO content constantly. Bounties are completed RARELY.

Ex: I spent more time sharing than writing last month (for Devtome on National Novel Writing Month pages) and I only got 15 shares because I was not doing things directly for Devtome. Someone else just joined and got 55. They must have spent tons of time writing and sharing article links.


All you have to do is increase the bounty per round and u will see them be completed regularily. This means share allocation is put on bounties.

Its like saying ad revenue is how devtome gets paid. How would you feel about that? All the writers get a share of the ad revenue based on the amount they write. This is kind of like the bounty system now.

I don't feel like that is true enough. I feel like if more people knew they could earn money for inventing and coding it would just get done by less greedy people.

But doing both could also be beneficial.
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November 20, 2013, 06:51:08 PM
 #2127


No way to do bounties when all the coins are going to writers dont you get it?

That's not quite correct. There is no rule at all saying that all coins should go to the writers.

The total number of coins distributed per round is fixed, but how it is allocated is completely flexible.

So, when a lot of writers are writing but no-one is doing development, the coins go to writers, but when there is a lot of development, the share the writers get is less.

A simple example: if there are just 5 writers in a round each getting 10 shares and no developers have participated, each writer would get 20% of the distribution. But if there are just five writers each getting 10 shares and a developer has claimed bounties for 50 shares, then each writer gets 10% and the developer gets 50% of the distribution.

So to "fix" the problem, all that needs to happen is that the shares allocated per development task is increased. If you up-ed it to 100 shares per development task for example, the portion the writers get will immediately drop. I don't know how unthinkingbit decides how much each development is worth, but I don't think anyone would object if he raised the bounties for development.

The "problem" if you like is that developers arn't really bothering to claim their bounties for the list of tasks already out there, but writers are, which is why it seems so lop-sided.

Thanks for clearing that up and it makes total sense why all shares
go to the writers. However ask yourself why this is the case? Why is it that there is no development going on? Advertisement? Im sure it has had the same scope as devtome. Maybe the fact that the static bounties were not taken up because they had to be worth more for someone to do it.. this is coupled with the fact that not many people knew about them.. however if the bounties were allocated shares every round until they were done I would say that we would have alot more development going on and more useful output from the project.

I guess what Im saying is that the bounties should not be static but based on a supply demand equilibrium. Supply being devcoin demand being amount of devcoin requested. As more supply is added each round demand will reach supply and bounty will be claimed. As more bounties get claimed visibility to the project will increase as well as marketing leverage to show others what has already been done. It should snowball from there. You have to agree that even though the floating bounty payout is decreasing work per dvc that it is still exponentially higher than the devtome work per dvc even with a rating system.


Devtome output is ad revenue and input is work for devcoin. While bounty output is increased awareness and usefulness in terms of something done for this or another project.

At the moment shares are only allocated to "work done". So if a writer hasn't written anything in a round, they get nothing, and if a developer hasn't developed in a round, they get nothing. Not sure how it would work out if shares were allocated to developers for ongoing work which wasn't complete - room for abuse there for someone to string out the work indefinitely...

I think the shares allocated per development task completed could certainly be increased. But whether anyone would bother is another matter. The devcoin price has fallen back so much that even writers arn't bothering any more - the last round had only a few articles, mainly from a couple of newbies enthusiastically trying it out for the first time. So if a developer had chosen that moment to complete a lot of tasks, they'd have scooped the jackpot!

As to why the developers don't bother - Devcoin doesn't get much visibility in general. The only developers who know it exists date from a couple of years ago when this was one of the few alts out there. I suppose we could advertise for developers in the Project Development part of this forum - but the problem of people second guessing the price will remain. It's not possible to know in advance how much a "share" is worth - it could be 400,000 coins or it could be 100,000 coins, so even if you knew that you would be getting say 20 shares, it's anyone's guess a) how many coins you'd get and b) what those coins were worth in BTC. People who want "guarantees" don't mix well with the crypto world because it's all so up and down...

I think if more of us made YouTube videos for people to stumble into, we could cover a lot of these bases.
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November 20, 2013, 06:59:14 PM
 #2128


No way to do bounties when all the coins are going to writers dont you get it?

That's not quite correct. There is no rule at all saying that all coins should go to the writers.

The total number of coins distributed per round is fixed, but how it is allocated is completely flexible.

So, when a lot of writers are writing but no-one is doing development, the coins go to writers, but when there is a lot of development, the share the writers get is less.

A simple example: if there are just 5 writers in a round each getting 10 shares and no developers have participated, each writer would get 20% of the distribution. But if there are just five writers each getting 10 shares and a developer has claimed bounties for 50 shares, then each writer gets 10% and the developer gets 50% of the distribution.

So to "fix" the problem, all that needs to happen is that the shares allocated per development task is increased. If you up-ed it to 100 shares per development task for example, the portion the writers get will immediately drop. I don't know how unthinkingbit decides how much each development is worth, but I don't think anyone would object if he raised the bounties for development.

The "problem" if you like is that developers arn't really bothering to claim their bounties for the list of tasks already out there, but writers are, which is why it seems so lop-sided.

Thanks for clearing that up and it makes total sense why all shares
go to the writers. However ask yourself why this is the case? Why is it that there is no development going on? Advertisement? Im sure it has had the same scope as devtome. Maybe the fact that the static bounties were not taken up because they had to be worth more for someone to do it.. this is coupled with the fact that not many people knew about them.. however if the bounties were allocated shares every round until they were done I would say that we would have alot more development going on and more useful output from the project.

I guess what Im saying is that the bounties should not be static but based on a supply demand equilibrium. Supply being devcoin demand being amount of devcoin requested. As more supply is added each round demand will reach supply and bounty will be claimed. As more bounties get claimed visibility to the project will increase as well as marketing leverage to show others what has already been done. It should snowball from there. You have to agree that even though the floating bounty payout is decreasing work per dvc that it is still exponentially higher than the devtome work per dvc even with a rating system.


Devtome output is ad revenue and input is work for devcoin. While bounty output is increased awareness and usefulness in terms of something done for this or another project.

At the moment shares are only allocated to "work done". So if a writer hasn't written anything in a round, they get nothing, and if a developer hasn't developed in a round, they get nothing. Not sure how it would work out if shares were allocated to developers for ongoing work which wasn't complete - room for abuse there for someone to string out the work indefinitely...

I think the shares allocated per development task completed could certainly be increased. But whether anyone would bother is another matter. The devcoin price has fallen back so much that even writers arn't bothering any more - the last round had only a few articles, mainly from a couple of newbies enthusiastically trying it out for the first time. So if a developer had chosen that moment to complete a lot of tasks, they'd have scooped the jackpot!

As to why the developers don't bother - Devcoin doesn't get much visibility in general. The only developers who know it exists date from a couple of years ago when this was one of the few alts out there. I suppose we could advertise for developers in the Project Development part of this forum - but the problem of people second guessing the price will remain. It's not possible to know in advance how much a "share" is worth - it could be 400,000 coins or it could be 100,000 coins, so even if you knew that you would be getting say 20 shares, it's anyone's guess a) how many coins you'd get and b) what those coins were worth in BTC. People who want "guarantees" don't mix well with the crypto world because it's all so up and down...

You probably wouldn't pay them until the bounty is claimed (work is done).. and that payment would be over rounds and not at once so that someone wouldn't dump all at once. That means the developer needs to work in a timely manor or else it may get claimed by someone else. The idea is to let it become a market and let the market decide what price is being paid to what work instead of setting it and hoping it is "good enough" to attract a developer.

Yes if a developer chose a time when bounties were high and noone else did them, he could hit the jackpot but thats what the market is all about, it decides overbought/oversold conditions and as it matures it will grow and you woulndt see cases where bounties were high enough to let any one person hitting jackpots. From an investors perspective all they care is to look at the project technicals/fundamentals and risk:reward situation. If there is no reward (the current state of the project justifies the price) then there is no need for risk.

By efficiently allocating work per devcoin and letting the market decide we may get to a point where there is some risk taking going on because people would view that there is reward in the coin from a higher price. Right now it is not very efficient because ad revenue output is so low, hard to argue that any bounty that can be complete now is worth less than the ad output even though we had many writers writing before.
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November 20, 2013, 08:10:17 PM
 #2129

I've put together a simple tool to keep track of the Devcoin price: http://dvc4giftcards.us/test/tickers.php

Any suggestions, just contact me.  I will be adding a feature in which you can add your own amount (like preev) soon, too!

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November 20, 2013, 08:45:44 PM
 #2130

New Devcoin video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQpwvhOab6k
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November 20, 2013, 09:17:14 PM
 #2131

..
I'll start a bounty right now, I have 300,000 devcoins to anyone who can create a $USD/DVC chart. It's ready to be claimed by the first person who can create a chart (similar to cryptocoincharts.info or cryptsy, vircurex, etc), just showing the $USD price per million devcoin, and being able to select by the day, month, year to date, and all time. I'll put another 100,000 devcoin into the bounty if it has a message below it that comes from the community. To get that message, I propose a friendly competition, posted on Devtome so all get earnings anyways, and I have another 100,000 for the message, as chosen by a poll in a thread, participated in only by current or past devcoin recipients. I'd really like to see that. It might well surprise us all. And anyone else can chip in if they choose.

This is doable, and I want to people to see that devcoin is beating fiat. The btc/dvc ticker bounty ended up being about 18 hours of work, and it was grabbed very quickly, even before it was finalized. Since the bounties have been doubled at least once since then, I suggest 18 shares for a USD/DVC chart. Any objections or should changes be made?


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November 20, 2013, 09:24:13 PM
Last edit: November 21, 2013, 02:50:29 AM by Unthinkingbit
 #2132

Anyone can suggest a bounty, the majority of the bounties at:
www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

were not started by me. The reason we don't have more bounties is because we didn't get any more suggestions that are useful, could be done for less than 5000$ and haven't already been done.

Note, people can only suggest two bounties per month, and the bounty description has to be at least 50 words.

..
Ie how about a bounty about a website which gives devcoin info and a bounty hub and bug problem trackwr? What about a bounty to add devcoin to an exchange?
..

Bounties were given out for the devcoin.org page, and a backup page. Bounties were given to vircurex and mcxnow for adding devcoin.

The bounty page is small, it takes less than ten minutes to read all the bounties, so there's no need yet for a bounty hub. Eventually if we post many bounties, then that would be useful. The only known bug is the high ram consumption, and thanks to you Rsnel is now working on that. He would get at least 6 million coins from me for it and if people don't object, 48 shares for making the low ram version.

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November 20, 2013, 09:46:04 PM
 #2133

Anyone can suggest a bounty, the majority of the bounties at:
www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

were not started by me. The reason we don't have more bounties is because we didn't get any more suggestions that are useful, could be done for less than 5000$ and haven't already been done.

..
Ie how about a bounty about a website which gives devcoin info and a bounty hub and bug problem trackwr? What about a bounty to add devcoin to an exchange?
..

Bounties were given out for the devcoin.org page, and a backup page. Bounties were given to vircurex and mcxnow for adding devcoin.

The bounty page is small, it takes less than ten minutes to read all the bounties, so there's no need yet for a bounty hub. Eventually if we post many bounties, then that would be useful. The only known bug is the high ram consumption, and thanks to you Rsnel is now working on that. He would get at least 6 million coins from me for it and if people don't object, 48 shares for making the low ram version.


Thanks,

But the bounties aren't being done because 1) they are not being advertised and 2) The incentive does not "grow". It is actually shrinking with price. If someone doesn't take something up it is either because they don't know or don't care to do it because its not worth it to them. If we make it worth it for them they will do it and the list of claimed bounties will grow adding to our marketing repertoire. 1 and 2 are related I think if you do bounties, people will become interested. In order to do bounties you have to create incentive. Incentive can come from marketing or from coins. We can do both but we need a way to increase pay dynamically to catch interest. In order to do this you would stop proposing bounties in terms of shares but as absolute coin amounts. The number of shares would be divvy'd up amongst all bounties in contention (divided shares of a bounty list) and bounty payouts would be accrued up every round, the bounty page would be updated manually or automatically.

What about something like what Matt_608 suggested in that the devtome website should be reorganized. That is an effective bounty that someone should take on with webpage experience and maybe use Matt_608 as a analyst to lead the change. This is what I meant by administrating the bounty. He would be good to be an admin for the bounty and someone who can do HTML or CMS systems fairly quickly can easily code it given strict guidelines.

I will start requesting bounties then, we should all make these requests and try to focus on things for now that will benefit this project. As soon as this project gets off its feet I'm sure we will have lots of opportunity to help the rest of the world.

The bounty hub is essential to create a presentation layer between the customers ( new people viewing as investors or new developers or people coming to the project and crypto world) and the backend grunt workers such as us who do the actual work administration etc. When I picture the site I picture a site where you can signup/transferability over to devtome which should be organized in a coherent manor and an organized section on bounties; a formal process of being able to easily view bounties, claim bounties by submitting work and updating/creating bounties for approval.
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November 20, 2013, 10:13:11 PM
 #2134

This is doable, and I want to people to see that devcoin is beating fiat. The btc/dvc ticker bounty ended up being about 18 hours of work, and it was grabbed very quickly, even before it was finalized. Since the bounties have been doubled at least once since then, I suggest 18 shares for a USD/DVC chart. Any objections or should changes be made?

The ticker I found (http://dvcticker.appspot.com/) seems to be running on the old vircurex API.  Is there a better one?

I have no objections to the bounty!

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BTC: 1JH2jybjWruvDD23wSe5PCY9Epmr45u6nQ - DVC: 1SMEAGqpm9JSpJ6JZaM5dEBptPTNahpFa - Earn Devcoins by Writing | Devcoin Official Site  | SAT
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November 20, 2013, 10:32:12 PM
 #2135

Anyone can suggest a bounty, the majority of the bounties at:
www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

were not started by me. The reason we don't have more bounties is because we didn't get any more suggestions that are useful, could be done for less than 5000$ and haven't already been done.

..
Ie how about a bounty about a website which gives devcoin info and a bounty hub and bug problem trackwr? What about a bounty to add devcoin to an exchange?
..

Bounties were given out for the devcoin.org page, and a backup page. Bounties were given to vircurex and mcxnow for adding devcoin.

The bounty page is small, it takes less than ten minutes to read all the bounties, so there's no need yet for a bounty hub. Eventually if we post many bounties, then that would be useful. The only known bug is the high ram consumption, and thanks to you Rsnel is now working on that. He would get at least 6 million coins from me for it and if people don't object, 48 shares for making the low ram version.


Do we just PM you to make a suggestion?
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November 20, 2013, 10:33:17 PM
 #2136

Anyone can suggest a bounty, the majority of the bounties at:
www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now

were not started by me. The reason we don't have more bounties is because we didn't get any more suggestions that are useful, could be done for less than 5000$ and haven't already been done.

..
Ie how about a bounty about a website which gives devcoin info and a bounty hub and bug problem trackwr? What about a bounty to add devcoin to an exchange?
..

Bounties were given out for the devcoin.org page, and a backup page. Bounties were given to vircurex and mcxnow for adding devcoin.

The bounty page is small, it takes less than ten minutes to read all the bounties, so there's no need yet for a bounty hub. Eventually if we post many bounties, then that would be useful. The only known bug is the high ram consumption, and thanks to you Rsnel is now working on that. He would get at least 6 million coins from me for it and if people don't object, 48 shares for making the low ram version.


Thanks,

But the bounties aren't being done because 1) they are not being advertised and 2) The incentive does not "grow". It is actually shrinking with price. If someone doesn't take something up it is either because they don't know or don't care to do it because its not worth it to them. If we make it worth it for them they will do it and the list of claimed bounties will grow adding to our marketing repertoire. 1 and 2 are related I think if you do bounties, people will become interested. In order to do bounties you have to create incentive. Incentive can come from marketing or from coins. We can do both but we need a way to increase pay dynamically to catch interest.

What about something like what Matt_608 suggested in that the devtome website should be reorganized. That is an effective bounty that someone shoudl take on with webpage experience and maybe use Matt_608 as a analyst to lead the change. This is what I meant by administrating the bounty. He would be good to be an admin for the bounty and someone who can do HTML or CMS systems fairly quickly can easily code it given strict guidelines.

I will start requesting bounties then, we should all make these requests and try to focus on things for now that will benefit this project. As soon as this project gets off its feet I'm sure we will have lots of opportunity to help the rest of the world.

The bounty hub is essential to create a presentation layer between the customers ( new people viewing as investors or new developers or people coming to the project and crypto world) and the backend grunt workers such as us who do the actual work administration etc. When I picture the site I picture a site where you can signup/transferability over to devtome which should be organized in a coherent manor and an organized section on bounties and a formal process of being able to easily view bounties, claim bounties by submitting work and updating/creating bounties for approval.

I would be interested in working on this for a DVC bounty, but my suggestions are a big change to the project and we'd need some consensus. 

I'm proposing a dismantling of Devtome and a re-packaging of its content onto separate websites.  These will be more reader friendly, more search engine friendly and more advertiser friendly. 

That's the strength of Devtome, the content, and the 'packaging' of that content is very important.

I can do this work in two stages:

Stage 1:  Planning

To start I would decide how Devtomes content would be best divided up to be commercially viable on a blog network.  At a quick glance I can see the e-currency section with some articles from the Computing section would work well together on a single website.  Also the health section looks strong enough to have its own website.  Each individual website will need to have enough content to be viable, so the content in some isolated and thinly populated categories may not be able to be used at first.  Once I've divided it all up and done some keyword research for search terms we should aim to rank for and found some good domain names to use I can proceed to the next stage, which is:

Stage 2:  Execution
Register the domain names, install wordpress on them.  I would need help making the designs look snazzy as I am not a web designer, but I can find decent free wordpress themes to get started with.  I would then go about removing the articles from Devtome and publish them onto the new Devcoin powered blog network.  Google likes it when a site has new content added regularly, so re-publishing the articles approximately one per day over the course of a few months would be best.  (Devtome of course does have regular content added, which is great, but its lack of topic-focus makes it hard for the search engines to categorise).  New content would still be needed all the time as per usual to keep growing the blogs.  I would also be able to provide the lists of keywords we would be aiming to rank for in the search engines to Devtomers and explain in detail how to go about link building to build highly targeted organic search traffic.  Once traffic builds, I can put up Google Adsense (have done this lots of times before) and we can use the revenue to do whatever we think we should.  I'd recommend waiting 2-3 months before putting up any ads to let traffic build first.

If people want me to go ahead with this, please voice your opinions.  It is a big project and I am willing to do it for a bounty.
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November 20, 2013, 10:41:27 PM
 #2137

I sent this to Unthinkingbit, but thought I would post it here as well. Because I am not sure how suggesting bounties works.

I suggest a bounty for Classification of Bacteria and other microbes. Either an entire catalog, or just a payout every time someone catalogs something we have never cataloged on devtome. Eventually we will start discovering new things.

There are 1000x Digital Microscopes on Amazon for $124.00 and you can get Amazon gift cards on Gyft.com

I also suggest bounties for educational videos. Each made, or each series of 5 or 10, and maybe a time minimum included. This way people can start getting paid in Devcoins to teach people about coding, or devcoin itself. As well as a variety of other educational aspects.

I suggest a bounty for inventions. If someone can invent ANYTHING that doesn't have a patent, they should be able to at least get a small bounty. Because even if it is a small invention and seems useless, it could end up being the key component to something larger.

I have more, but I will wait for a reply.
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November 20, 2013, 10:46:21 PM
 #2138

I suggest a bounty for anyone that can synthesize any chemical through a route that has not been recorded. People discover new and easier ways to make things every day and sometimes even find papers where someone made something but only recorded the modern desired product as a byproduct.

I also suggest a bounty for photographs of important locations, buildings and natural landmarks. Like national monuments and mountain ranges.
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November 20, 2013, 10:52:55 PM
 #2139

I suggest a bounty for the first person that can tell us exactly what these are:
http://www.livescience.com/39411-web-structure-in-amazon-photos.html
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November 20, 2013, 11:16:44 PM
 #2140

Well, if anyone can suggest a bounty then I will to!

I propose a 12 share bounty for a devcoin exchange and marketplace, sort of like bitmit except you can deposit bitcoin or litecoin and trade them for devcoin.

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