[ActiveMining] The Official Active Mining Discussion Thread

[EskimoBob]

Is this stock still a good buy? I am kinda scared at the constant sell offs, I put alot into this.

this is exactly what I am trying to figure out, leaving emotions, beliefs and other nonsense out of this equation.
Problem is, we do not even know what the book value of Actm is

[Tazo]

Ken has the right to buy back shares? 

[EskimoBob]

Ken has the right to buy back shares? 

Sure, why not? Unless, it's below the market price over time X.
If Co shares are trading below book value and Co has free cash laying around, it's a smart move and good for the rest of the share holders.

[Vycid]

...

EskimoBob,

Does the "cost" column represent the expense to ActiveMining? Are those pulled from a document somewhere? Or is this based on an arbitrary 66.67% markup?

The cost to the company per GH/s appears really terrible, frankly.

No, this is pure fiction. I made a guess and used really fat cross margin to make the calculation to get some kind of an idea how many units must be sold to generate 4 667 689 USD in profits from hardware sales.
I have no idea what those chips are going to cost and how much is actually spent as of now.
I also have no idea how much is the cost of assembly, testing, transport etc etc are for any of those units. Only number I have seen is the price those products are sold. So I made an estimate on little we have.

Is 66.7% a good markup in this industry, if you pay for full R&D etc, basically form drawing board to a final delivery.
Maybe it's 80 or 30% or 200% Do any of you know?

From what little financial documents I have seen from ASICMiner, it costs them $1.50 per GH/s. So selling a 10 GH/s blade at 4 BTC is a $15 cost on ~$460, or a 3000%+ markup.

[zumzero]

...

EskimoBob,

Does the "cost" column represent the expense to ActiveMining? Are those pulled from a document somewhere? Or is this based on an arbitrary 66.67% markup?

The cost to the company per GH/s appears really terrible, frankly.

No, this is pure fiction. I made a guess and used really fat cross margin to make the calculation to get some kind of an idea how many units must be sold to generate 4 667 689 USD in profits from hardware sales.
I have no idea what those chips are going to cost and how much is actually spent as of now.
I also have no idea how much is the cost of assembly, testing, transport etc etc are for any of those units. Only number I have seen is the price those products are sold. So I made an estimate on little we have.

Is 66.7% a good markup in this industry, if you pay for full R&D etc, basically form drawing board to a final delivery.
Maybe it's 80 or 30% or 200% Do any of you know?

This whole conversation is insane! What a total joke.

If security x spends a or b or c and makes d or e or f then it's valued at g or h or  i and shares are worth j or k or l and therefore weekly dividends will be m or n or o and therefore I can not decide if it's a good investment.

Do you go through many keyboards Boab? Lol

[carpetbagger]

calculation to get some kind of an idea how many units must be sold to generate 4 667 689 USD in profits from hardware sales.

About 10.5 units



This is ActM so everything is 100% profit 

(yes it's an old pic before anyone gets emotional)

[Stuartuk]

Problem is, we do not even know what the book value of Actm is

What a total retarded pile of shit you are! Is this phrase 'book value' something you read about the other day and now you have decided to come on here and make yourself look clever? lol Your last two pages have been utterly laughable. You seriously have no clue, you must be at most like 17.

[EskimoBob]

...

EskimoBob,

Does the "cost" column represent the expense to ActiveMining? Are those pulled from a document somewhere? Or is this based on an arbitrary 66.67% markup?

The cost to the company per GH/s appears really terrible, frankly.

No, this is pure fiction. I made a guess and used really fat cross margin to make the calculation to get some kind of an idea how many units must be sold to generate 4 667 689 USD in profits from hardware sales.
I have no idea what those chips are going to cost and how much is actually spent as of now.
I also have no idea how much is the cost of assembly, testing, transport etc etc are for any of those units. Only number I have seen is the price those products are sold. So I made an estimate on little we have.

Is 66.7% a good markup in this industry, if you pay for full R&D etc, basically form drawing board to a final delivery.
Maybe it's 80 or 30% or 200% Do any of you know?

From what little financial documents I have seen from ASICMiner, it costs them $1.50 per GH/s. So selling a 10 GH/s blade at 4 BTC is a $15 cost on ~$460, or a 3000%+ markup.

Lets remove the BTC from this for now. It's to volatile and the unit price in BTC is calculated form fiat anyways.
$1.50 per GH/s sounds nice indeed. How many chips must be produce to make this number reality?  
Not sure but was it about 800 000 USD Actm needed to complete the development of eACIC chip and board and what not?

Total Gh form those sales (my fictional table) is 542848, if Gh cost 1.50, total cost of those units is 814 272
So the will get away with selling only about 1800 units 200+200 most expensive, 300+300 and 400+400 the entry level stuff.

carpetbagger, 100% profit (revenue - total cost) means buy for 3 and sell for 6 or 50% cross margin.

Gross Margin = Gross Profit/Revenue
Gross Margin = (Revenue − Cost of Goods Sold)/Revenue

Stuartuk, zumzero aetc, if I have made a mistake in my calculations, please correct me. Just yelling and foaming like a angry retarded midget, will not help me nor you to understand, how this stuff is priced and is Actm currently overpriced or not. I have never stated, that this is some kind of truth. Those are just numbers compiled from this little information I have.

BTW, I do not understand, why you 2 hate Actm so much that you have to embarrass the Co and yourself at every fkn opportunity you get.
Even Icebraker and likes are not that demented.

If I recall, Avalon order was fucked up so you can stop jerking off to mining revenue. 460 something Gh is nothing now days and soon will be more irrelevant.

PS! I do not understand why you 2 idiots are getting so worked up about. Can you take my fictional table and replace the numbers with fiction you like better? Can you do that? If not, stfu! Simple as that.

[EskimoBob]

Code:

Product                            Gh  Revenue  profit margin  Cost    Markup %    Cross margin    Units sold    Profit       
Fast-Hash One Silver Edition       64   1774.3   1676.7         97.6    1718.18%        94.50%         400      670,682
Fast-Hash One Gold Edition        128   3704.1   3500.3        203.7    1718.18%        94.50%         300    1,050,098
Fast-Hash One Platinum Edition    256   5699.1   5385.6        313.4                                   200    1,077,120
                                                                                                              
Fast-Hash-One Silver 64 GH/s       64   1299.0   1227.6         71.4    1718.18%        94.50%         400      491,022
Fast-Hash-One Gold 128 GH/s       128   2499.0   2361.6        137.4    1718.18%        94.50%         300      708,467
Fast-Hash-One Platinum 256 GH/s   256   3699.0   3495.6        203.4    1718.18%        94.50%         200      699,111
                                                                                             Total             4,696,500

Will this look more realistic?

[zumzero]

...

EskimoBob,

Does the "cost" column represent the expense to ActiveMining? Are those pulled from a document somewhere? Or is this based on an arbitrary 66.67% markup?

The cost to the company per GH/s appears really terrible, frankly.

No, this is pure fiction. I made a guess and used really fat cross margin to make the calculation to get some kind of an idea how many units must be sold to generate 4 667 689 USD in profits from hardware sales.
I have no idea what those chips are going to cost and how much is actually spent as of now.
I also have no idea how much is the cost of assembly, testing, transport etc etc are for any of those units. Only number I have seen is the price those products are sold. So I made an estimate on little we have.

Is 66.7% a good markup in this industry, if you pay for full R&D etc, basically form drawing board to a final delivery.
Maybe it's 80 or 30% or 200% Do any of you know?

From what little financial documents I have seen from ASICMiner, it costs them $1.50 per GH/s. So selling a 10 GH/s blade at 4 BTC is a $15 cost on ~$460, or a 3000%+ markup.

Lets remove the BTC from this for now. It's to volatile and the unit price in BTC is calculated form fiat anyways.
$1.50 per GH/s sounds nice indeed. How many chips must be produce to make this number reality?  
Not sure but was it about 800 000 USD Actm needed to complete the development of eACIC chip and board and what not?

Total Gh form those sales (my fictional table) is 542848, if Gh cost 1.50, total cost of those units is 814 272
So the will get away with selling only about 1800 units 200+200 most expensive, 300+300 and 400+400 the entry level stuff.

carpetbagger, 100% profit (revenue - total cost) means buy for 3 and sell for 6 or 50% cross margin.

Gross Margin = Gross Profit/Revenue
Gross Margin = (Revenue − Cost of Goods Sold)/Revenue

Stuartuk, zumzero aetc, if I have made a mistake in my calculations, please correct me. Just yelling and foaming like a angry retarded midget, will not help me nor you to understand, how this stuff is priced and is Actm currently overpriced or not. I have never stated, that this is some kind of truth. Those are just numbers compiled from this little information I have.

BTW, I do not understand, why you 2 hate Actm so much that you have to embarrass the Co and yourself at every fkn opportunity you get.
Even Icebraker and likes are not that demented.

If I recall, Avalon order was fucked up so you can stop jerking off to mining revenue. 460 something Gh is nothing now days and soon will be more irrelevant.

PS! I do not understand why you 2 idiots are getting so worked up about. Can you take my fictional table and replace the numbers with fiction you like better? Can you do that? If not, stfu! Simple as that.

tl;dr

[carpetbagger]

carpetbagger, 100% profit (revenue - total cost) means buy for 3 and sell for 6 or 50% cross margin.

You got me there. This thread is a tough crowd!

[Mabsark]

Is this stock still a good buy? I am kinda scared at the constant sell offs, I put alot into this.

No, not at the moment anyway. Labcoin is a far better investment due to it starting hashing in the next couple of days. A lot of people will be selling shares of various other stocks to buy in before the price increases significantly. That will include ActM shareholders, causing ActM's share price to drop even lower. ActM can't do anything about this as they've already told us they'll have nothing till November.

In the tong term, ActM is still good but if you do want to buy any more stock, you'll be better off waiting a few days for the inevitable price drop.

You can take my advice on this matter or you can take the advice of an absolute fanboy like Stuart. I claimed ActM would start mining on 28nm in November (despite VBS' and Kleeck's denial) and I also claimed the increase in share price from eASIC confirmation would just be a bubble when it came. On the other hand, Stuart is a bagbolder, frothing at the mouth because he knows he was wrong. This idiot probably snapped up the shares I sold for 0.0065, while I was telling him the increase was just a bubble.

ActM's share price will drop when Labcoin starts mining. If for some strange, delusional reason, you want to buy more ActM shares, wait for that price drop. If you have any sense though, you'll buy LC instead.

[ArcticWolf]

Is this stock still a good buy? I am kinda scared at the constant sell offs, I put alot into this.

No, not at the moment anyway. Labcoin is a far better investment due to it starting hashing in the next couple of days. A lot of people will be selling shares of various other stocks to buy in before the price increases significantly. That will include ActM shareholders, causing ActM's share price to drop even lower. ActM can't do anything about this as they've already told us they'll have nothing till November.

In the tong term, ActM is still good but if you do want to buy any more stock, you'll be better off waiting a few days for the inevitable price drop.

You can take my advice on this matter or you can take the advice of an absolute fanboy like Stuart. I claimed ActM would start mining on 28nm in November (despite VBS' and Kleeck's denial) and I also claimed the increase in share price from eASIC confirmation would just be a bubble when it came. On the other hand, Stuart is a bagbolder, frothing at the mouth because he knows he was wrong. This idiot probably snapped up the shares I sold for 0.0065, while I was telling him the increase was just a bubble.

ActM's share price will drop when Labcoin starts mining. If for some strange, delusional reason, you want to buy more ActM shares, wait for that price drop. If you have any sense though, you'll buy LC instead.

Please take your shilling to the Labcoin thread. Thanks.

[Mabsark]

Is this stock still a good buy? I am kinda scared at the constant sell offs, I put alot into this.

No, not at the moment anyway. Labcoin is a far better investment due to it starting hashing in the next couple of days. A lot of people will be selling shares of various other stocks to buy in before the price increases significantly. That will include ActM shareholders, causing ActM's share price to drop even lower. ActM can't do anything about this as they've already told us they'll have nothing till November.

In the tong term, ActM is still good but if you do want to buy any more stock, you'll be better off waiting a few days for the inevitable price drop.

You can take my advice on this matter or you can take the advice of an absolute fanboy like Stuart. I claimed ActM would start mining on 28nm in November (despite VBS' and Kleeck's denial) and I also claimed the increase in share price from eASIC confirmation would just be a bubble when it came. On the other hand, Stuart is a bagbolder, frothing at the mouth because he knows he was wrong. This idiot probably snapped up the shares I sold for 0.0065, while I was telling him the increase was just a bubble.

ActM's share price will drop when Labcoin starts mining. If for some strange, delusional reason, you want to buy more ActM shares, wait for that price drop. If you have any sense though, you'll buy LC instead.

Please take your shilling to the Labcoin thread. Thanks.

I told him if he wants to buy ActM, he should wait for the price to finish crashing which will be after LC starts mining in a couple of days. What's wrong with that advice?

[JimmyJazz]

The webstore really needs to accept BTC as payment. Not only for the obvious reason that this is a bitcoin business and that it would benefit the BTC economy, but also those looking to purchase will have the required BTC available to make large purchases. There is also the added benefit of not needing to convert the BTC when paying out dividends.

ActM should use the Avalon refund to purchase there own product at cost price.

On other notes, Do people think that 28nm chips will be the best option for the foreseeable future or are there other technologies in development? If so do we know if ActM will be looking to continue to be at the forefront of these technologies? In other words are ActM looking to make profit in the next 1-2 years or are they wanting to continually grow, as mining will still be underway until 21 million BTC are created.

On the mining side of this question, what percentage of the mining hashrate are ActM looking to hold in the future? Will they try to be ethical and stick to a certian rate or push to be the most dominant?

[WildFire.ca]

1. The webstore really needs to accept BTC as payment.

2. ActM should use the Avalon refund to purchase there own product at cost price.

Both of these are great ideas. The first one should have been done a long time ago.

[drawingthesun]

as mining will still be underway until 21 million BTC are created.

Even though it doesn't matter at all right now or for the next 10 years. The idea is that the transaction fees will eventually be large enough that its still profitable to mine after no more new Bitcoins are being generated.

If the transaction fees are not enough by that time then Bitcoin will be attacked and destroyed. So it is possible that companies like ActiveMining could essentially exist forever paying out dividends, only if they always stayed ahead with the most efficient mining chips. (Like I said, if its not profitable for any company to exist mining bitcoins in 100 years because the transaction fee model does not work, bitcoin will be eliminated)

(Of course none of this matters at all for a long time)

On the mining side of this question, what percentage of the mining hashrate are ActM looking to hold in the future? Will they try to be ethical and stick to a certian rate or push to be the most dominant?

At this point you cannot be ethical, too many competitors are out to destroy us so ActiveMining must attempt for the greatest hashrate possible whilst also developing new chips.

[EskimoBob]

JimmyJazz, good ideas. +1


But if this really is a 1718% markup business ($1.50 per Gh), this party can not last for long.
How soon can we expect cheap chinese copies (stolen designs) to hit the market?
Next 6 month's are going to be interesting.

[drawingthesun]

JimmyJazz, good ideas. +1


But if this really is a 1718% markup business ($1.50 per Gh), this party can not last for long.
How soon can we expect cheap chinese copies (stolen designs) to hit the market?
Next 6 month's are going to be interesting.

The next 6 months in Bitcoin, the companies, the btc price itself, its all going to be insane. I can feel it.

[tom.hashemi]

JimmyJazz, good ideas. +1


But if this really is a 1718% markup business ($1.50 per Gh), this party can not last for long.
How soon can we expect cheap chinese copies (stolen designs) to hit the market?
Next 6 month's are going to be interesting.

The next 6 months in Bitcoin, the companies, the btc price itself, its all going to be insane. I can feel it.

In a good way I hope?