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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 157766 times)
Lumi3004
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September 19, 2018, 07:28:23 AM
 #5141

I already don't like the way clicking on +merit takes you away from the thread.  Can you please have it open in a new window?
A little suggestion for the idea of opening a new window.
1. a system of merit, or a policy where members are promoted or valued on the basis of ability and achievement, not because of seniority,
2. solely on the basis of capability and not patronage.

Given the concerns about abuse even with only positive merit, I dont know if I would support that.
There's a whole other level to possible abuse vectors when adding negative merit as well, that can decrease somebodies rank.
I do not blame this system as being better for detecting Multi-account spamer, What I worry about is that many people die here and do negative things that are inexplicable, like cats pouncing on mice nearly thousands of mice are destroyed.

   
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Malam90
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September 19, 2018, 07:46:19 AM
 #5142

New ranking system is actually helpful for getting quality post form the new members ( Newbies). All Jr.Members who have been demoted to Newbies for their 0 merit, can now purchase Cooper Membership with small fees to participate in signature campaign.
RivAngE
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September 19, 2018, 08:17:51 AM
 #5143

New ranking system is actually helpful for getting quality post form the new members ( Newbies). All Jr.Members who have been demoted to Newbies for their 0 merit, can now purchase Cooper Membership with small fees to participate in signature campaign.

Actually I've noticed more spam from 0 merit members who either begs for one merit or spam many discussions thinking that what they write will earn them a merit. I hope this will not last long and after "old Jr. Members" who got demoted get their 1 merit, we will see the benefits of this change. Just 1 merit seems low though, I'd like to see 5 merits instead.

The main problem is the bounty managers who accept Jr. Member in the first place, but I guess if you reward people with 0-value shitcoins then you don't care about filtering, the cost of your bounty is 0$ anyway.
mahvia
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September 19, 2018, 08:41:52 AM
 #5144

i have to think how others might think or want, not what i really do Smiley
If you're not thinking about how other people will interpret what you have to say, then you're not having a conversation with them, which is the whole purpose of a forum. Instead you're just talking to yourself at best, and interrupting other people's conversations at worst, and everyone else is sick of dealing with it at this point.

Punch taken, a good one.

But still, to keep it focused, we are talking about real reasoning for giving/earning Merit vs trashtalk, fomo, fud, bounty posts that this should reduce?
Going bit derailed-Yes, people are here for different reasons, so i guess some are better than others for the community.. Taking it to deeper in 1 subject: Why bounty hunters are worse than the rest? (they do have to be active in forums with posts (contents of a post itself is mostly irrelevant. No interest in making conversation there)). You see the problem is not the hunter itself but the system that makes him post this junk. Just redirect all coin/token bounties, commercials and ico-s to somewhere deep folders where you never have to go and let them rant there Smiley
Eventually bounty creators see no reason in this business. Or just ban it.

For those who create multiple account just to spam links etc- why creating account is easier than buying milk in the store? I know it should be easy for real new user to come and take part in community but everywhere where system provides valuable info or resources, people are willing to make a bigger effort to have access to it.

We are talking here mostly about newbies and jr members who had certain interest here in the forum and lot of them are complaining about something that most higher rank members can never relate to anymore.
By now i have read a lot of posts by users who are merit sources and their explanations how they give merit and how their standards will not change etc. They all say they will read your posting history, that you have to have all quality posts... the hell.. everyone who has over 100 posts have some shit in their history. And now you can copy that 13th of february in 2018 (2017 or 2016 or whatever) post when your portfolio crashed 30% and your dog died the same day and you just felt posting something with "quality". Because of that post you get no merit whatsoever? When would that user be worthy again?
 
Foxpup, if you are concerned about the quality of conversation then I'm sure that among those 2,3 mio accounts I bet 90 % doesn't "qualify" to be worthy to have conversation with you. But people do come here to learn and grow.  And people do come here to spam, rant, do bounty hunting etc. Like iI said before, I have no problem with merit system, but with the reasoning or rules how they might be distributed.

To be cleared, I'm not talking about myself (my post history is garbage) and I have no need for merit at the moment Smiley

tranle1267
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September 19, 2018, 11:14:24 AM
 #5145

i think with the new rule, the spamer will reudce so much, the posts will be good and quality, the most important thing, our forum will be better and have quality members. We have to construct the forum so stronger day by day.
MagicSmoker
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September 19, 2018, 12:13:37 PM
 #5146

...
By now i have read a lot of posts by users who are merit sources and their explanations how they give merit and how their standards will not change etc. They all say they will read your posting history, that you have to have all quality posts... the hell.. everyone who has over 100 posts have some shit in their history.
...

Your argument is based on an exaggeration so it has no substance absent the exaggeration. I'm pretty sure you were referring to a comment made by The Pharmacist:

I got made a merit source this morning, which was a bit of a surprise since I hadn't ever applied to be one and have stated multiple times that I didn't want to be one.  However, since Theymos has seen fit to saddle me with the responsibility, I'll accept it and take it seriously.

However, I don't plan to give merits to any old Newbie just for a typical crappy post, i.e., I don't plan to lower the standards that I've always had.  What I do plan on doing is finding low-ranked members who actually deserve merits, and I'll pay more attention to noob posts when I see them.
...

Which was in my thread warning not to give merits to newly-demoted newbies if they have lots of posts in spam megathreads. This is not the same as saying don't give anyone merit if their post history is not totally free of shitposts, rather, to not accidentally undermine the goal that the new merit requirement for jr. members is attempting to achieve - namely, to remove the incentive to posting in spam megathreads just to ensure you meet your sig campaign posting quota.



iqlimasyadiqa
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September 19, 2018, 12:38:15 PM
 #5147

New ranking system is actually helpful for getting quality post form the new members ( Newbies). All Jr.Members who have been demoted to Newbies for their 0 merit, can now purchase Cooper Membership with small fees to participate in signature campaign.
This can be said to be an improvement in quality, we all know that a lot of newbie members are registered but there are still many members who do not provide useful things. Therefore this new regulation will trigger a newbie to give the best. For me this is a good thing because we must always think forward to get things that are much better and develop.
athanz88
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September 19, 2018, 12:50:47 PM
 #5148

It is really funny when people blame the system when the majority of fault is on themselves, not because the system. How could people think they are so big that they can blame the system? It is right that ICO and Bounty system is shit, but do you think if the system is good then people will follow that good rules? No, because human will always find the easiest way to do something and will always find a loophole in to the system. But imagine if the human is already a great person, even in a shit system he/she will be a great person and will not abuse the loophole in te rules.

Illustration/scenario :

1. There is a bank which has a greatest security in the world but all of money in the world is in there. If there is an evil and bad people, they will try to overcome that security system to rob that money, even it is a hard task.

2. There is a bank with shit security system and has all the money in the world. If there is no evil and bad people, only good people, then the bank will be safe and won't need to upgrade their system at all.

Can you see the different here? This forum problem is there are a lot of bad people who just want to milk money from the forum.

Habibur1729
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September 19, 2018, 01:35:57 PM
 #5149

1. There is a bank which has a greatest security in the world but all of money in the world is in there. If there is an evil and bad people, they will try to overcome that security system to rob that money, even it is a hard task.

2. There is a bank with shit security system and has all the money in the world. If there is no evil and bad people, only good people, then the bank will be safe and won't need to upgrade their system at all.

Can you see the different here? This forum problem is there are a lot of bad people who just want to milk money from the forum.


It's damn true!! and it's reality. If there were no bad people who betrays the ordinary people to get some money then there was no need to change the system. But Everywhere you go you find selfish/bad people, you can't find a person who is perfect in all edge. The time force the people to change rules to keep away from bad people. And for this the rule of this forum is also needed a change....

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JayJuanGee
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September 19, 2018, 08:56:37 PM
 #5150

New ranking system is actually helpful for getting quality post form the new members ( Newbies). All Jr.Members who have been demoted to Newbies for their 0 merit, can now purchase Cooper Membership with small fees to participate in signature campaign.

Actually I've noticed more spam from 0 merit members who either begs for one merit or spam many discussions thinking that what they write will earn them a merit. I hope this will not last long and after "old Jr. Members" who got demoted get their 1 merit, we will see the benefits of this change. Just 1 merit seems low though, I'd like to see 5 merits instead.

The main problem is the bounty managers who accept Jr. Member in the first place, but I guess if you reward people with 0-value shitcoins then you don't care about filtering, the cost of your bounty is 0$ anyway.

My have time changed.  You (RivAngE) used to be one of the BIGGEST whiners about the implementation of this merit system, and now you seem to be recognizing that something about this merit system has been working for the good of the forum and even you have been able to make the merit system work sufficiently for yourself with some merits under your belt - and likely you will be able to make it to 100 merits plus in the near future by continuing to remain active in the forum and to contribute to substantive forum discussions...

I agree with your point about the problematic incentives that seem to exist with bounty managers - and I am not really opposed to some kind of higher requirement for advancing out of newbie status, such as 5 merits (though that 5 merits does seem a bit high, and 2 or 3 merits might be sufficient).  On the other hand, it seems to me that before even considering implementing a movement to a higher merit requirement (beyond 1 merit) for Jr. member rank up status, it seems quite prudent to attempt to verify whether the already move up to the 1 merit requirement might already sufficiently (even if not completely) to address the most egregious behaviors without overkill which may have its own negative ramifications in respect to a large number of honest new members being able to rank up and to reasonably increase some of their forum credibility and privileges.

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
JayJuanGee
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September 19, 2018, 09:05:51 PM
 #5151

i have to think how others might think or want, not what i really do Smiley
If you're not thinking about how other people will interpret what you have to say, then you're not having a conversation with them, which is the whole purpose of a forum. Instead you're just talking to yourself at best, and interrupting other people's conversations at worst, and everyone else is sick of dealing with it at this point.

Punch taken, a good one.

But still, to keep it focused, we are talking about real reasoning for giving/earning Merit vs trashtalk, fomo, fud, bounty posts that this should reduce?
Going bit derailed-Yes, people are here for different reasons, so i guess some are better than others for the community.. Taking it to deeper in 1 subject: Why bounty hunters are worse than the rest? (they do have to be active in forums with posts (contents of a post itself is mostly irrelevant. No interest in making conversation there)). You see the problem is not the hunter itself but the system that makes him post this junk. Just redirect all coin/token bounties, commercials and ico-s to somewhere deep folders where you never have to go and let them rant there Smiley
Eventually bounty creators see no reason in this business. Or just ban it.

For those who create multiple account just to spam links etc- why creating account is easier than buying milk in the store? I know it should be easy for real new user to come and take part in community but everywhere where system provides valuable info or resources, people are willing to make a bigger effort to have access to it.

We are talking here mostly about newbies and jr members who had certain interest here in the forum and lot of them are complaining about something that most higher rank members can never relate to anymore.
By now i have read a lot of posts by users who are merit sources and their explanations how they give merit and how their standards will not change etc. They all say they will read your posting history, that you have to have all quality posts... the hell.. everyone who has over 100 posts have some shit in their history. And now you can copy that 13th of february in 2018 (2017 or 2016 or whatever) post when your portfolio crashed 30% and your dog died the same day and you just felt posting something with "quality". Because of that post you get no merit whatsoever? When would that user be worthy again?
 
Foxpup, if you are concerned about the quality of conversation then I'm sure that among those 2,3 mio accounts I bet 90 % doesn't "qualify" to be worthy to have conversation with you. But people do come here to learn and grow.  And people do come here to spam, rant, do bounty hunting etc. Like iI said before, I have no problem with merit system, but with the reasoning or rules how they might be distributed.

To be cleared, I'm not talking about myself (my post history is garbage) and I have no need for merit at the moment Smiley

You are full of shit.

You could have came at the subject matter and acknowledged some of the issues of the implemented system and the changes; however, you proposal to completely revamp the forum and to take out the ability for signatures and bounty hunters goes quite contrary to the forums chosen direction.....  Part of the nonsense of your post  (and garbage as you suggest) remains that you are failing and refusing to work within the parameters that are in place and the direction in which the forum is currently going.. instead you request some less possible route that seems to just be stirring up shit rather than providing any kind of meaningful and thought through proposal.

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
Neo-Design
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September 19, 2018, 11:29:49 PM
 #5152

So the main purpose of this is

Quote
- Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
 - Highlighting good posts with the "Merited by" line.

Great Idea, but still in some point it will disregarded or doesn't matter. If you know what I mean.



I have the feeling that some users are going to start trading sMerit points..
just saying. I still believe in the goodness and honesty of the people. But it is a possibility.

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coinlocket$
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September 19, 2018, 11:51:29 PM
 #5153

~

I have the feeling that some users are going to start trading sMerit points..
just saying. I still believe in the goodness and honesty of the people. But it is a possibility.

It's happening since the start of this system, if you find solid cases you can post them here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2896910.0. as you can see a lot of people were reported and now it seems more and more people starting to DT red trust them.


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Rongelweng
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September 20, 2018, 02:23:08 AM
 #5154

Merit is some sort of a feature that can Help members of this forum be constructive and qualitative post. (I don't think if my idea is right).



P.S. O.P. merited.
It is a unique rule to each of us. Merit give us a lot of meaning. This serves an honor of making a good and such a quality post. I believe in you that merit can help members to create or share wonderful ideas that can help this forum and help other members for gaining knowledge and it will become the source of knowledge to everyone of us.
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September 20, 2018, 02:40:03 AM
 #5155

~

I have the feeling that some users are going to start trading sMerit points..
just saying. I still believe in the goodness and honesty of the people. But it is a possibility.

It's happening since the start of this system, if you find solid cases you can post them here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2896910.0. as you can see a lot of people were reported and now it seems more and more people starting to DT red trust them.
You can never have it in control, because everyone has their way of thinking and taking advantage of what is currently in Front of them. Thank you for the info where you would report on the possible merit abusers or using it as a currency to be traded. It's not wrong to believe in the goodness in people; you have to trust the right ones.

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Real14Hero
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September 20, 2018, 02:47:40 AM
 #5156

So the main purpose of this is

Quote
- Forcing people to post high-quality stuff in order to rank up. If you just post garbage, you will never get even 1 merit point, and you will therefore never be able to put links in your signature, etc.
 - Highlighting good posts with the "Merited by" line.

Great Idea, but still in some point it will disregarded or doesn't matter. If you know what I mean.



I have the feeling that some users are going to start trading sMerit points..
just saying. I still believe in the goodness and honesty of the people. But it is a possibility.
It started to happen since time immemorial. I remember people making some reports about merit getting sold on other forums, particularly HF. Don't know the validity of the report but, people were also selling merit on gambling site chats.
stingers
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September 20, 2018, 07:42:48 AM
 #5157

-snip
I really like the efforts this newbies are taking in gaining even a single merit. I believe that even one constrictive post of any member contributes the forum in one or the other way
Keep going as you start making constructive posts this merit system would just effect you in a very positive way.
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September 20, 2018, 08:45:19 AM
 #5158

... we are talking about real reasoning for giving/earning Merit vs trashtalk, fomo, fud, bounty posts that this should reduce?
Going bit derailed-Yes, people are here for different reasons, so i guess some are better than others for the community..
No kidding.  Grin
Seriously? You are talking about Merit giving policy?

I don't know from where you have earned so much sMerit to spend, but I noticed one of your latest Merits sent to a known troller for its personal and off-topic attacks ... just stop teaching people. You need a lot of education about what a discussion forum is.
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September 20, 2018, 09:04:14 AM
 #5159

can't insert picture(
so link:

https://i.imgur.com/dxjdwov.jpg
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September 20, 2018, 09:06:34 AM
 #5160

being a newbie back there is a very challenging thing for me, and i'm not gonna complain like mos people.
because with the new rule, at least 1 merrit , it was warms my heart to be more useful for all person on this forum so it can be better than just following a project with weekly report and so on.

that for me about 1 merrit for back to  Jr member rank ,.
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