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Author Topic: Merit & new rank requirements  (Read 157787 times)
JayJuanGee
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September 10, 2018, 10:48:09 PM
 #5041

I will concede that I did not believe that the merit distribution would drop so low because I presumed that more people would spend their smerits as they learned about the system and there would be a kind of rippling effect from the continued spending, and I also presumed that sources would either continue to spend or perhaps increase their spending as they got used to the system... which seems to NOT be happening.  
In the past week (from Friday to Friday), 3481 Merit points were transfered. That's 3481/7*30=14918 per 30 days.
It would be interesting to see how many of those came from Merit sources, who generate up to 19500 sMerit in the same period. But since not all Merit sources are known, I won't try to get the number.

Perhaps through inference some of that could be determined, but there still remains a bit of difficulties to infer the level of source for each source member who had been inferred to be a source.

Many of us recognize the saying that a house of cards built upon inference built upon inference built upon inference has some difficulties standing.   Cheesy Cheesy

Surely it seems to be a reasonable inference that a decent amount of the drop in the smerit spending amount is likely coming from the fact that regular members have largely spent their initial distribution (those active members who were inclined to spend their smerits), and likely another reasonable inference is that not all the smerits are coming from sources - perhaps 15% or more are coming from non source members.


I've still never been able to empty my source sMerit, and "my own" sMerit has now piled up to exactly 300. From now on, I'll try to keep my source sMerit under 10 (and 0 would be fine too). If it's higher (as it is now, I'll Merit more posts.

I've started this right now, meriting 8 different posts in 2-3 seconds (yes, I try to break my record Cheesy ).

It seems to me that one of theymos's more recent disclosures about the replenishment of source merits does seem to provide an incentive for merit sources to spend their source smerits sooner rather than later, because they replenish 30 days from the time that you spend them.  So that is a nice little built in incentive for any merit source (who likes being a merit source) to readily and eagerly spend his/her source merits.

Again, regarding your non-source smerits, it seems completely in your discretion whether you want to keep 100 of those or 300 or 500 or some other number or even to NEVER spend them.  I would be against theymos creating any kind of decay rule regarding those nonsource smerits; however, I would have NO objection if he were to figure out some kind of incentive system to get folks to spend some of their nonsource smerits.  I am not sure what that would be, but with things like smerits it seems that carrots would be psychologically better than sticks... especially for any of the libertarian minded members, which there are some of those in bitcoinlandia, including this forum, as you likely have realized ...  you might be inclined in that direction, yourself?  Wink Wink

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

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How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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cryptofarid10
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September 11, 2018, 01:55:46 AM
 #5042

Although it might be heresy for you bitcoin maximalists, the altcoins/mining subforum does have a surprisingly high signal-to-noise ratio. Here's a post from a 16 activity newbie that I just merited (and whose post history suggests more good things to come): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5024771.msg45483725#msg45483725.

Of course, when I go slumming in the altcoin or bitcoin discussion subfora I never see a post worth meriting (but plenty of posters who get reported for plagiarism) so if those are the only subfora you frequent then pickings are slim, indeed.


may be. he have good skill and out knowledge Or there have another account. That's why he is experienced, and for this reason he got 18 Merit in his 16 posts

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September 11, 2018, 09:22:43 AM
 #5043

<...>
I think there may be a mismatch in the data in the excel, probably because two weeks were very similar in terms of sMerit:
27/08/2018 .. 02/09/2018 -> 3.186 sMerits
20/08/2018 .. 26/08/2018 -> 3.763 sMerits
13/08/2018 .. 19/08/2018 -> 3.767 sMerits

The reading is still the same regardless: New all-time minimum and a decreasing trend...



Fixed, the hope is that after the summer the sources that are now inactive return active, many of them unfortunately, probably for various reasons, are not using the merits and the forum suffers.

The reasons can be differents:

- Busy in real life
- They dont care about it (some of them are merit sources without asking from initial airdrop period)
- They don't find posts where use Merit.


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pcatalin93
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September 11, 2018, 11:50:42 AM
 #5044

<...>
I think there may be a mismatch in the data in the excel, probably because two weeks were very similar in terms of sMerit:
27/08/2018 .. 02/09/2018 -> 3.186 sMerits
20/08/2018 .. 26/08/2018 -> 3.763 sMerits
13/08/2018 .. 19/08/2018 -> 3.767 sMerits

The reading is still the same regardless: New all-time minimum and a decreasing trend...



Fixed, the hope is that after the summer the sources that are now inactive return active, many of them unfortunately, probably for various reasons, are not using the merits and the forum suffers.

The reasons can be differents:

- Busy in real life
- They dont care about it (some of them are merit sources without asking from initial airdrop period)
- They don't find posts where use Merit.

Anyone is busy in their real life and in my opinion this is the only plausible reason. The fact that they don`t care is even worst. And the one that they don`t find posts to deserve Merit is also wrong ( not my case Smiley) ). I looked over the last 2-3 pages of this topic and in about 15-20 minutes i kinda learn a lot of thing about this system ( with mention that i was out of crypto for few months) . So to be back, a lot of usefull posts ,very well structured and well explained.

Maybe an automatic rule should be made regarding the forum : the merit sources which are not using them to be excluded as a merit source. There are a lot of people willing to be MS and being online and helpfull to the comunity.
RivAngE
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September 11, 2018, 12:33:31 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #5045

Although it might be heresy for you bitcoin maximalists, the altcoins/mining subforum does have a surprisingly high signal-to-noise ratio. Here's a post from a 16 activity newbie that I just merited (and whose post history suggests more good things to come): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5024771.msg45483725#msg45483725.

Of course, when I go slumming in the altcoin or bitcoin discussion subfora I never see a post worth meriting (but plenty of posters who get reported for plagiarism) so if those are the only subfora you frequent then pickings are slim, indeed.


I know what you're saying, but as someone who's interested mostly in a few (very few) altcoins and the altcoin miners, most of my knowledge spans around this subject and I can be more helpful with my posts in this subforum. Most of what I'd post in the Bitcoin subforum would be considered "unnecessary" or "spam" by many because I don't have deep knowledge of the Bitcoin itself.

Also it saddens me that merit sources are probably prejudiced against everyone who use signatures, even legit people like myself. For example look at this post just above us (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.msg45458026#msg45458026), JayJuanGee, a very respectable and old member received a merit for quoting my post and enriching my point with some comments. That's all good, but on what ground was this post merit-able and mine wasn't? What set us apart?

This is only an example and please don't take me wrong, I have nothing against JayJuanGee, on the contrary even! But it makes me wonder... if a respectable legendary member with no paid signature and a newbie with a signature were to write the exact same post with the same wording... would merit sources and other members be fair?

I guess I shouldn't complain, I have been given 52 merits even though I'm always taking advantage of a paid signature (why wouldn't I? I'm not posting to get paid; I get paid for posting) but I'm sure without a signature I would have reached 100 merits by now.
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September 11, 2018, 02:18:56 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1), LoyceV (1)
 #5046

...
Also it saddens me that merit sources are probably prejudiced against everyone who use signatures, even legit people like myself.

I dunno about that. Both of us joined here around the same time (last December), and while I've never worn a signature, am a native English speaker (to you being Greek) and have posted almost twice as often as you, we've both received merits at approximately the same rate: 1 for every ~16 posts. So I'd say you are doing quite well, all things considered (or I am doing quite poorly!  Grin )

I also haven't really seen a prejudice against giving merits to people wearing signatures, but there is a definite reluctance to dole them out to people whose post history has a sizeable number of bounty reports (something I happen to agree with).

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September 11, 2018, 02:27:45 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #5047

I don't really notice many signatures. The senior bounty ones look like the forum ones, and I assume that no product in which I have an interest is likely to advertise here. Then there are the junior bounty ones, these are usually 2 or 3 lines of capitalised text pretending to be a big boys signature. The only ones I tend to notice are the simple text strings, as these are often the personal sites of the poster, and can be useful resources.

[
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RivAngE
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September 11, 2018, 03:14:50 PM
 #5048

I don't really notice many signatures. The senior bounty ones look like the forum ones, and I assume that no product in which I have an interest is likely to advertise here. Then there are the junior bounty ones, these are usually 2 or 3 lines of capitalised text pretending to be a big boys signature. The only ones I tend to notice are the simple text strings, as these are often the personal sites of the poster, and can be useful resources.
[off-topic]lol that's true! Nice "ask-a-legendary" site! you've got there Grin [/off-topic]
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September 11, 2018, 03:27:58 PM
 #5049

Its very tough to get a marit nowadays. Many qualityful post didn't even seen by higher level members or they ignore. Those who are ranked up before this rules are dominating bitcointalk now. I heard about marit treading and selling too.
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September 11, 2018, 03:33:20 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5050

snip
snip

I guess I shouldn't complain, I have been given 52 merits even though I'm always taking advantage of a paid signature (why wouldn't I? I'm not posting to get paid; I get paid for posting) but I'm sure without a signature I would have reached 100 merits by now.

Well, to  be honest. I was and am wearing signature since the day the merit was introduced back in January. I start this "new age" as a Full Member and now here i am with 341 merits, which mean i got 241 merits while i use signature. Maybe some people who read this will try and look into my merit history and will says that my merits are mostly from meta section. Guess what? People can post in meta but doesnt mean they will get merits, if the post is merited, then someone thinks that it is worthy enough to be merited. That is why i am proud of my merits where ever i got it from.

I guess, there is 2 different side of your case. While you got less with signature, some people just got the merit in a faster rate while using signature (i am not saying this is me).
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September 11, 2018, 03:48:12 PM
 #5051

Its very tough to get a marit nowadays. Many qualityful post didn't even seen by higher level members or they ignore. Those who are ranked up before this rules are dominating bitcointalk now. I heard about marit treading and selling too.
Merit buy sell is not permitted. If you see something like this, please report to the moderator. Then he will be banned.

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September 11, 2018, 03:50:03 PM
 #5052

snip
snip

I guess I shouldn't complain, I have been given 52 merits even though I'm always taking advantage of a paid signature (why wouldn't I? I'm not posting to get paid; I get paid for posting) but I'm sure without a signature I would have reached 100 merits by now.

Well, to  be honest. I was and am wearing signature since the day the merit was introduced back in January. I start this "new age" as a Full Member and now here i am with 341 merits, which mean i got 241 merits while i use signature. Maybe some people who read this will try and look into my merit history and will says that my merits are mostly from meta section. Guess what? People can post in meta but doesnt mean they will get merits, if the post is merited, then someone thinks that it is worthy enough to be merited. That is why i am proud of my merits where ever i got it from.

I guess, there is 2 different side of your case. While you got less with signature, some people just got the merit in a faster rate while using signature (i am not saying this is me).

The problem is not all the good posts were get merited so the merit distribution is not equal even the two good posts will get different amount of merits it based on how much people reading this and how much think that this is worthy to be merited.We are in scarcity for merit sources I think. Roll Eyes
I heard about marit treading and selling too.
If you get caught for merit trading you will be negged so never try to use their service for rank up.

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September 11, 2018, 04:03:45 PM
 #5053

<...>
I guess I shouldn't complain, I have been given 52 merits even though I'm always taking advantage of a paid signature (why wouldn't I? I'm not posting to get paid; I get paid for posting) but I'm sure without a signature I would have reached 100 merits by now.
Back in June 2018, @ matthewoz101 opened a thread on the matter of the relation on merit and signatures (see Is it easier to earn Merit without a signature?). On the referenced thread, I checked out back then whether there was an influence on being merited depending on signature present/absent (see re: Is it easier to earn Merit without a signature?), and there did not seem to be one really.

In fact, for Heroes and Legendries it had a positive impact numerically, although it is likely due to the fact that for these ranks post more often and therefore gain more merits (there are obvious exceptions, but it is a plausible explanation for the 7 point difference in average merit for those using a signature).
Ranks below Heroes at the time seemed not to be influenced by wearing a signature in terms of average sMerit received.

JayJuanGee
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September 11, 2018, 05:35:15 PM
 #5054

snip
snip

I guess I shouldn't complain, I have been given 52 merits even though I'm always taking advantage of a paid signature (why wouldn't I? I'm not posting to get paid; I get paid for posting) but I'm sure without a signature I would have reached 100 merits by now.

Well, to  be honest. I was and am wearing signature since the day the merit was introduced back in January. I start this "new age" as a Full Member and now here i am with 341 merits, which mean i got 241 merits while i use signature. Maybe some people who read this will try and look into my merit history and will says that my merits are mostly from meta section. Guess what? People can post in meta but doesnt mean they will get merits, if the post is merited, then someone thinks that it is worthy enough to be merited. That is why i am proud of my merits where ever i got it from.

I guess, there is 2 different side of your case. While you got less with signature, some people just got the merit in a faster rate while using signature (i am not saying this is me).

I won't dispute that you have been on a signature the whole time since the merit system was started, but weren't you in a different signature campaign in January/February, as compared with the one that you have now?

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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September 11, 2018, 05:40:54 PM
 #5055

<...>
I guess I shouldn't complain, I have been given 52 merits even though I'm always taking advantage of a paid signature (why wouldn't I? I'm not posting to get paid; I get paid for posting) but I'm sure without a signature I would have reached 100 merits by now.
Back in June 2018, @ matthewoz101 opened a thread on the matter of the relation on merit and signatures (see Is it easier to earn Merit without a signature?). On the referenced thread, I checked out back then whether there was an influence on being merited depending on signature present/absent (see re: Is it easier to earn Merit without a signature?), and there did not seem to be one really.

In fact, for Heroes and Legendries it had a positive impact numerically, although it is likely due to the fact that for these ranks post more often and therefore gain more merits (there are obvious exceptions, but it is a plausible explanation for the 7 point difference in average merit for those using a signature).
Ranks below Heroes at the time seemed not to be influenced by wearing a signature in terms of average sMerit received.


Well.. I merited your post from June 17th which states 76,97% of the merited posts, are merited within the 1st week! I like being on the minority of things Cool I'm impressed with all the data you've gathered, I wasn't expecting those numbers!

I'm interested to know how did you calculate the following (I formatted for you into a table! Wink). I want to ask two things... A) Did you separate people wearing a personal signature and people wearing a paid signature? B) I'm sure a lot of registered members are inactive. Most of them, logically are inactive prior to 2017 and therefore prior to the boom of signature bounties, were you able to somehow filter these people out? Since they're inactive they're not going to get any merit!

Rank                         %WithSignature  AvgTotalMerit_NO_Signature  AvgTotalMerit_Signature
Jr. Member53%3,523,11
Member74%8,67 9,71
Full Member78%10,2012,31
Sr. Member75%16,1115,71
Hero74%12,4420,10
Legendary74%18,9225,05
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September 11, 2018, 06:59:20 PM
 #5056

<…>
 
Nice to see you’ve gone through the whole referenced thread, and not just to the referenced OPs, therefore getting the whole context.
To answer your questions:

A)   No, I did not separate personal signature from a campaign signature. I gave it a go, but there were so many distinct signatures that classifying them seemed rather painstaking. I believe I stated this in the original thread where the study was performed somewhere. Actually, what I really wanted at the time to group signatures by campaign and see where that led me, but since signatures differ per rank, and content of the signatures too, I had to give it a pass and settle for the simpler version of signature present/absent.

B)   The analysis only took into consideration merited members, so the considered user base is that of those that had achieved at least 1 sMerit at the time, thus disregarding all other users. That was the focus I intended really. I was therefore not concerned with forum members that has not achieved a single merit at the time, whether being active or inactive.

P.D. Thanks for the proper table format. I have since formatted data better, normally enclosed in code sections with padded spaces to align things properly (prior treatment on excel for the padding).

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September 11, 2018, 07:51:17 PM
 #5057

Well, to  be honest. I was and am wearing signature since the day the merit was introduced back in January.
...

I won't dispute that you have been on a signature the whole time since the merit system was started, but weren't you in a different signature campaign in January/February, as compared with the one that you have now?

IIRC, it was the Yahoo8675309 campaign, or whatever those numbers are after Yahoo's name.

(don't ask why I remembered that - I'm kind of surprised myself...  Tongue )

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September 11, 2018, 11:48:00 PM
 #5058

Well, to  be honest. I was and am wearing signature since the day the merit was introduced back in January.
...

I won't dispute that you have been on a signature the whole time since the merit system was started, but weren't you in a different signature campaign in January/February, as compared with the one that you have now?

IIRC, it was the Yahoo8675309 campaign, or whatever those numbers are after Yahoo's name.

(don't ask why I remembered that - I'm kind of surprised myself...  Tongue )

Yes.... exactamente..   My memory triggered further, too.

Of course, we have to deal with ESG, KYC & AML, but each of them are attack vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.

Put BTC here: 35EVP8EePt8dyvKHaB7bXaRmKLm22YgRCA

How much alt coin diversification is necessary? if you are investing in Bitcoin, then perhaps 0%?
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September 12, 2018, 04:44:17 AM
 #5059


I won't dispute that you have been on a signature the whole time since the merit system was started, but weren't you in a different signature campaign in January/February, as compared with the one that you have now?


Yes, it is different. Back then i was on yahoo62278's campaign and now i am on a signature which managed by Zapo. Does it have any differences or bias or something? Isnt the talk is about someone not getting more merit just because they have signature on their profile? I am not saying me, but there are people who got many merits when they are using signature, so it is kinda different from rivange's hypothesis.
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September 12, 2018, 05:41:26 AM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #5060

I am not saying me, but there are people who got many merits when they are using signature, so it is kinda different from rivange's hypothesis.
The current top 3 most merited user (LoyceV) is on ChipMixer's campaign.
The top 6, hilariousetc is also in the same campaign.
The top 8, Lutpin is using a paid signature.
The top 12, The Pharmacist is also with ChipMixer.

and the list goes on... actually, a big part of the top 100 most merited users are in a signature campaign. So, I think it's safe to assume that this doesn't mean a lot.

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