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[pinky]

In my case this documentation was not accepted, since my claims were rejected.

So you also send money just before mtgox disappeared?

Yes.

And a proof , like a bank or OKPAY statement that you sent the money was not accepted?

Yes. The only logical conclusion, since my claim was rejected.

There must be a big load of monetary inputs within the last days of Gox (which were never credited to the balance).

I myself am aware of couple of 100k from OKPAY, EUR/USD/GBP bank transfers.

Aren't they able to check these inputs with your proof ?!

Of course, there is trail of interbank electronic transactions. Money don't just dissaper when you transact between different banks and bank accounts. I dunno why Trustee ignored this when making decisions.

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[stereotype]

Having trouble understanding why i would want to 'settle' a position. Maybe im missing the obvious, but what advantage does it offer the trader?

[HPt]

Assume you have a BTCEUR short position of 10 BTC. That means you actually borrowed 10 BTC from Kraken in order to sell it for EUR.
Now you decide you want to give back the 10 BTC to Kraken (say from your cold wallet) and keep the EUR for good. What you have to do in this case: You deposit 10 BTC and settle the position. Without settling you would have to close the position and then sell the deposited 10 BTC on the market. The latter method would imply two unnecessary trades involving a lot of friction (fees, spread, effects of limited order book depth).
So, it's actually really nice from Kraken to spare you this hassle and provide the settle feature even for free.

[stereotype]

Assume you have a BTCEUR short position of 10 BTC. That means you actually borrowed 10 BTC from Kraken in order to sell it for EUR.
Now you decide you want to give back the 10 BTC to Kraken (say from your cold wallet) and keep the EUR for good. What you have to do in this case: You deposit 10 BTC and settle the position. Without settling you would have to close the position and then sell the deposited 10 BTC on the market. The latter method would imply two unnecessary trades involving a lot of friction (fees, spread, effects of limited order book depth).
So, it's actually really nice from Kraken to spare you this hassle and provide the settle feature even for free.

Appreciate the explanation. Only started using Kraken yesterday for the first time, but I definitely need to eat more weetabix today, cos i still dont why i would want to settle the borrowed funds, but still keep the position open. What scenario would that be an advantage to me? And when i 'close', i dont experience any of that friction/hops you mention, and with no additional fees, from what i can make out.

Cheers

 

[Dargo]

Assume you have a BTCEUR short position of 10 BTC. That means you actually borrowed 10 BTC from Kraken in order to sell it for EUR.
Now you decide you want to give back the 10 BTC to Kraken (say from your cold wallet) and keep the EUR for good. What you have to do in this case: You deposit 10 BTC and settle the position. Without settling you would have to close the position and then sell the deposited 10 BTC on the market. The latter method would imply two unnecessary trades involving a lot of friction (fees, spread, effects of limited order book depth).
So, it's actually really nice from Kraken to spare you this hassle and provide the settle feature even for free.

Appreciate the explanation. Only started using Kraken yesterday for the first time, but I definitely need to eat more weetabix today, cos i still dont why i would want to settle the borrowed funds, but still keep the position open. What scenario would that be an advantage to me? And when i 'close', i dont experience any of that friction/hops you mention, and with no additional fees, from what i can make out.

Cheers

The position would not stay open because settlement is just an alternative way of closing the position. Let me know if this doesn't help, but have you seen our blog post on settlement?

http://blog.kraken.com/post/143865496412/new-feature-cash-out-of-margin-positions-with

[HPt]

Assume you have a BTCEUR short position of 10 BTC. That means you actually borrowed 10 BTC from Kraken in order to sell it for EUR.
Now you decide you want to give back the 10 BTC to Kraken (say from your cold wallet) and keep the EUR for good. What you have to do in this case: You deposit 10 BTC and settle the position. Without settling you would have to close the position and then sell the deposited 10 BTC on the market. The latter method would imply two unnecessary trades involving a lot of friction (fees, spread, effects of limited order book depth).
So, it's actually really nice from Kraken to spare you this hassle and provide the settle feature even for free.

Appreciate the explanation. Only started using Kraken yesterday for the first time, but I definitely need to eat more weetabix today, cos i still dont why i would want to settle the borrowed funds, but still keep the position open. What scenario would that be an advantage to me? And when i 'close', i dont experience any of that friction/hops you mention, and with no additional fees, from what i can make out.

Cheers

 

From what you wrote, I think there are some misconceptions:
1. When you settle a position, then this position is not open any more.
2. When you close a position then this closing involves a trade. (If you close a 10 BTCEUR short position, then you actually buy 10 BTC at market.)

[Serpens66]

Appreciate the explanation. Only started using Kraken yesterday for the first time, but I definitely need to eat more weetabix today, cos i still dont why i would want to settle the borrowed funds, but still keep the position open. What scenario would that be an advantage to me? And when i 'close', i dont experience any of that friction/hops you mention, and with no additional fees, from what i can make out.

Cheers

I usually don't trade with leverage.
But the settle option is a good way, to make it possible to buy some new bitcoins, even if I have no Euro (only btc) at Kraken.

Let's assume you have 0€ and 2 BTC at your account. The price is 400€/BTC and you think it might rise to 500€ within the next days, so you want to buy bitcoins now.
So you have to send some Euros to kraken first. And after some days after the money arrived, the price is already at 500€. You made no profit.

But with the settle option, you can buy up to 10 (5:1) new bitcoins with your 2 btc as "colleteral" at the price of 400€. And some days later, when your money arrives, you can settle the position, which means you will really get your 10 BTC at price of 400€/BTC. (and you have no psotions open after that)

[becoin]

Hi Dargo,

I have have some questions in regard to margin trading. Lets suppose there is a BTC/EUR leveraged long opened 1 month ago. Could you please clarify:

1. Do you calculate 23% interest for position rollovers on the EUR amount borrowed 1 month ago when position was opened or interest is calculated on the EUR amount at the time of the position rollover?
2. If customer has only BTC balance on their account what exchange rate do you apply to deduct rollover fees? Is that current BTC/EUR rate or you apply the exchange rate that was 1 month ago?

[Dargo]

Hi Dargo,

I have have some questions in regard to margin trading. Lets suppose there is a BTC/EUR leveraged long opened 1 month ago. Could you please clarify:

1. Do you calculate 23% interest for position rollovers on the EUR amount borrowed 1 month ago when position was opened or interest is calculated on the EUR amount at the time of the position rollover?
2. If customer has only BTC balance on their account what exchange rate do you apply to deduct rollover fees? Is that current BTC/EUR rate or you apply the exchange rate that was 1 month ago?

The max you can have a margin position open is 28 days (it's not a product for long term holding). The rollover fee for BTC/EUR is 1 basis point (0.01%) of the amount borrowed, charged to your account every four hours. For the purposes of any conversion needed in charging the fee, the rate is derived from our own market at the time the fee is applied (i.e. every four hours). 

[stereotype]

Assume you have a BTCEUR short position of 10 BTC. That means you actually borrowed 10 BTC from Kraken in order to sell it for EUR.
Now you decide you want to give back the 10 BTC to Kraken (say from your cold wallet) and keep the EUR for good. What you have to do in this case: You deposit 10 BTC and settle the position. Without settling you would have to close the position and then sell the deposited 10 BTC on the market. The latter method would imply two unnecessary trades involving a lot of friction (fees, spread, effects of limited order book depth).
So, it's actually really nice from Kraken to spare you this hassle and provide the settle feature even for free.

Appreciate the explanation. Only started using Kraken yesterday for the first time, but I definitely need to eat more weetabix today, cos i still dont why i would want to settle the borrowed funds, but still keep the position open. What scenario would that be an advantage to me? And when i 'close', i dont experience any of that friction/hops you mention, and with no additional fees, from what i can make out.

Cheers

 

From what you wrote, I think there are some misconceptions:
1. When you settle a position, then this position is not open any more.
2. When you close a position then this closing involves a trade. (If you close a 10 BTCEUR short position, then you actually buy 10 BTC at market.)

Yep. The last bit of this sentance, threw me a bit. "Another way is to return the advanced funds directly from the trader’s account balance with no trade involved - this is position settlement." I understand the mechanics of it now.
Thanks to others who replied, also.

@Dargo  I really would like to be able to click-enter amounts, instead of manually typing values into order box's. Better still, trading/order entry from a chart, would be cool.  

[becoin]

The max you can have a margin position open is 28 days (it's not a product for long term holding).

What happens with a margin position if it is not closed by the customer within 28 days?

The rollover fee for BTC/EUR is 1 basis point (0.01%) of the amount borrowed, charged to your account every four hours.

Borrowed when?
If I opened 10 BTC long 20 days ago at EUR350 I borrowed EUR3500. Lets assume now BTC/EUR exchange rate is EUR450. Do you charge me BTC 0.000777778 (3500×0,01%÷450) every 4 hours? Or BTC 0.001 (3500×0,01%÷350) every 4 hours? Or BTC 0.001285714 (4500×0,01%÷350) every 4 hours?

[Serpens66]

If I opened 10 BTC long 20 days ago at EUR350 I borrowed EUR3500. Lets assume now BTC/EUR exchange rate is EUR450. Do you charge me BTC 0.000777778 (3500×0,01%÷450) every 4 hours? Or BTC 0.001 (3500×0,01%÷350) every 4 hours? Or BTC 0.001285714 (4500×0,01%÷350) every 4 hours?

I guess non of these.
At opening they will charge in addition to the normal maker/taker (3500×0,01%÷350).
4 hours later they check the actual price again. If the price 4 hours later is 400€, I guess it will be  (4000×0,01%÷400). And so on.

[Dargo]

If I opened 10 BTC long 20 days ago at EUR350 I borrowed EUR3500. Lets assume now BTC/EUR exchange rate is EUR450. Do you charge me BTC 0.000777778 (3500×0,01%÷450) every 4 hours? Or BTC 0.001 (3500×0,01%÷350) every 4 hours? Or BTC 0.001285714 (4500×0,01%÷350) every 4 hours?

I guess non of these.
At opening they will charge in addition to the normal maker/taker (3500×0,01%÷350).
4 hours later they check the actual price again. If the price 4 hours later is 400€, I guess it will be  (4000×0,01%÷400). And so on.

No, we only charge for the borrowed funds, not the value of the position. So it would be this:

At opening we charge in addition to the normal maker/taker trade fee (3500×0,01%÷350).
4 hours later we check the actual price again. If the price 4 hours later is 400€, it will be  (3500×0,01%÷400). And so on. Also, I believe we use average price (probably over 24 hours) rather than the bid/ask of the moment.

[gonzx]

Dargo, I have a question.
I have a claim in BTC accepted on mtgox site. Can I transfer the mtgox claim to kraken now ? ( or in the future ? ). I question because I want to receive in BTC. Is sure that Kraken can distribute in BTC ? Thanks.

[Dargo]

Dargo, I have a question.
I have a claim in BTC accepted on mtgox site. Can I transfer the mtgox claim to kraken now ? ( or in the future ? ). I question because I want to receive in BTC. Is sure that Kraken can distribute in BTC ? Thanks.

You can't transfer the claim now, but you will be able to in the future (the process for that hasn't been fully determined yet, but we will let everyone know when it is). There's always the possibility that things will change, but currently the plan is that Kraken will handle all bitcoin distributions.

[Ted E. Bare]

The max you can have a margin position open is 28 days (it's not a product for long term holding).

Can you elaborate on what will happen with my open positions after the 28th day?

[stereotype]

Dargo, I have a question.
I have a claim in BTC accepted on mtgox site. Can I transfer the mtgox claim to kraken now ? ( or in the future ? ). I question because I want to receive in BTC. Is sure that Kraken can distribute in BTC ? Thanks.

You can't transfer the claim now, but you will be able to in the future (the process for that hasn't been fully determined yet, but we will let everyone know when it is). There's always the possibility that things will change, but currently the plan is that Kraken will handle all bitcoin distributions.

Is there a process set up for accepted claims, that are disputed by others? i.e.......   

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=462370.msg15007558#msg15007558

[Dargo]

A member of our team contacted the Tokyo District Court to ask about disputing rejected claims. This is what we learned so far (edit - please note that this is just the answer from the Tokyo District Court and hopefully the trustee will come up with an easier solution for disputing claims, but there is no word on this yet):

You need to file a motion for claim assessment （債権査定申立て/ Sasho Moshitate) to the Tokyo District Court within a month from the last creditors’ meeting and ask them to review the disapproval decision .

Where to file:
東京地方裁判所民事第２０部 (Tokyo District Court Minji 20 Bu)
Mailing address : 100-8920
東京と千代田区霞が関一丁目1番２号
東京地方裁判所民事第２０部　
Tokyo District Court Minji 20 Bu
1-1-2 Kasumigaseki, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo,
100-8920
Japan

Tel:  03 3581 3487 (Japanese)
(You need the case number 3830 and year 2014/ 平成26年第3830号)

How: this is not-so-easy part unfortunately.  You’d have to file a motion by sending 2 copies of official document (one to the court, another to the trustee) to the address above. This would be hard without asking a Japanese lawyer. We have been asking around if any law firm can take this (will let you know if we can find anyone) but each lawyer may take each case depending on the situation. Please try to find Japanese legal advice if the amount you want to dispute is big and you cannot miss it. You also should try to ask an extension of the deadline if possible.

Here is also the call center number of the trustee.
03-4588-3921 (Japanese)
03-4588-3922 (English)

Hopefully this info is helpful for some people - sorry that it is not an easy process.

Edit - two reddit threads going about this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/4lrg5i/how_to_do_claim_assessment_process/

https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/4ldfl0/what_is_the_claim_assessment_process/

[Dargo]

Dargo, I have a question.
I have a claim in BTC accepted on mtgox site. Can I transfer the mtgox claim to kraken now ? ( or in the future ? ). I question because I want to receive in BTC. Is sure that Kraken can distribute in BTC ? Thanks.

You can't transfer the claim now, but you will be able to in the future (the process for that hasn't been fully determined yet, but we will let everyone know when it is). There's always the possibility that things will change, but currently the plan is that Kraken will handle all bitcoin distributions.

Is there a process set up for accepted claims, that are disputed by others? i.e.......   

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=462370.msg15007558#msg15007558

Not sure, but see my post above about disputing rejected claims, perhaps it would be a similar process. 

[stereotype]

Dargo, I have a question.
I have a claim in BTC accepted on mtgox site. Can I transfer the mtgox claim to kraken now ? ( or in the future ? ). I question because I want to receive in BTC. Is sure that Kraken can distribute in BTC ? Thanks.

You can't transfer the claim now, but you will be able to in the future (the process for that hasn't been fully determined yet, but we will let everyone know when it is). There's always the possibility that things will change, but currently the plan is that Kraken will handle all bitcoin distributions.

Is there a process set up for accepted claims, that are disputed by others? i.e.......   

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=462370.msg15007558#msg15007558

Not sure, but see my post above about disputing rejected claims, perhaps it would be a similar process. 

Ok. Thanks for the info. Will pass the details on.