[ANN] KRAKEN.COM - Exchange with USD EUR GBP JPY CAD BTC LTC XRP NMC XDG STR ETH

[Dargo]

Watch out, phishing email hitting bitcointalk email addresses:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4m3op0/psa_phishing_attempts_reported_today_kraken_re/

[1714475661]

1714475661

[1714475661]

1714475661

[SebastianJu]

Watch out, phishing email hitting bitcointalk email addresses:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4m3op0/psa_phishing_attempts_reported_today_kraken_re/

Yeah, saw that too, brought me back to the topic since today I had some time to check... after weeks of not being able.

So I found my claim partly rejected. So I thought ok, around 19% was said can be awaited so I checked the details and found that from the 47€ I personally had in gox... so 0.04€. Practically nothing.

Though I had 8 bitcoins in there that someone wanted to trade (there were going some escrowed trades on from people betting on a payout buying bitcoins on gox for cheap). From these 8 bitcoins are accepted: 8 bitcoins. I wonder if that actually is what will be paid out or the base on where the cut is done.

Doesn't really make much sense to me. I won't complain, the one using me as escrow surely will be happy but still. Reading that people lost their money because he based his decisions on what mtgox stats were... at least he should have finalized the stats by checking the last implemented payouts and deposits from each payment method. Can't believe that victims have to feel scammed now again.

[Dargo]

Dargo, I have a question.
I have a claim in BTC accepted on mtgox site. Can I transfer the mtgox claim to kraken now ? ( or in the future ? ). I question because I want to receive in BTC. Is sure that Kraken can distribute in BTC ? Thanks.

You can't transfer the claim now, but you will be able to in the future (the process for that hasn't been fully determined yet, but we will let everyone know when it is). There's always the possibility that things will change, but currently the plan is that Kraken will handle all bitcoin distributions.

Is there a process set up for accepted claims, that are disputed by others? i.e.......   

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=462370.msg15007558#msg15007558

Not sure, but see my post above about disputing rejected claims, perhaps it would be a similar process. 

Ok. Thanks for the info. Will pass the details on.

NP - I added a note to the original post saying that this is just the answer from the Tokyo District Court and hopefully the trustee will come up with an easier solution for disputing claims, but there is no word on this yet so far as I know.

[Dargo]

Watch out, phishing email hitting bitcointalk email addresses:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4m3op0/psa_phishing_attempts_reported_today_kraken_re/

Yeah, saw that too, brought me back to the topic since today I had some time to check... after weeks of not being able.

So I found my claim partly rejected. So I thought ok, around 19% was said can be awaited so I checked the details and found that from the 47€ I personally had in gox... so 0.04€. Practically nothing.

Though I had 8 bitcoins in there that someone wanted to trade (there were going some escrowed trades on from people betting on a payout buying bitcoins on gox for cheap). From these 8 bitcoins are accepted: 8 bitcoins. I wonder if that actually is what will be paid out or the base on where the cut is done.

Doesn't really make much sense to me. I won't complain, the one using me as escrow surely will be happy but still. Reading that people lost their money because he based his decisions on what mtgox stats were... at least he should have finalized the stats by checking the last implemented payouts and deposits from each payment method. Can't believe that victims have to feel scammed now again.

I'm not sure why most of your fiat claim was rejected while all of your BTC claim was accepted. Hopefully the trustee will provide a convenient way to dispute rejected amounts, but for now the method outlined in my post above (coming from the Tokyo District Court) is all we know. The amount accepted does not indicate the amount you will get back - I'm pretty sure you will only get a fraction of the accepted amount back (your share of the remaining funds).

[HostFat]

I know that you are integrating Kraken with cryptocapital.co.

Does this mean that it will be possible to instant deposit/withdrawal fiat currency from/to cryptocapital.co ?

Is it already fully enabled?

[Ted E. Bare]

The max you can have a margin position open is 28 days (it's not a product for long term holding).

Can you elaborate on what will happen with my open positions after the 28th day?

... I need to know this.

[stereotype]

cryptocapital.co.

Did this, used to be this?......  https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=CFIG

[HostFat]

Yes, it seems: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/index.php

[SebastianJu]

I'm not sure why most of your fiat claim was rejected while all of your BTC claim was accepted. Hopefully the trustee will provide a convenient way to dispute rejected amounts, but for now the method outlined in my post above (coming from the Tokyo District Court) is all we know. The amount accepted does not indicate the amount you will get back - I'm pretty sure you will only get a fraction of the accepted amount back (your share of the remaining funds).

Thanks for the headsup on the point of how much to be returned.

In my eyes it was not really usefull to recalculate every currency into yen just to not use it at the end because everyone will be paid only what is left on the individual currency.

I think that nearly no Euro are there anymore was because MtGox had withdraw problems on Euro for weeks and months before. Which was one reason why the bitcoin price was so high there. So no euros on their bank accounts might be the problem of high rejection.

[Serpens66]

Thanks for the headsup on the point of how much to be returned.

In my eyes it was not really usefull to recalculate every currency into yen just to not use it at the end because everyone will be paid only what is left on the individual currency.

I think that nearly no Euro are there anymore was because MtGox had withdraw problems on Euro for weeks and months before. Which was one reason why the bitcoin price was so high there. So no euros on their bank accounts might be the problem of high rejection.

I don't think, that that is a reason for high rejection, there are also not enough btc in there. And with that argumentation more than 80% of the real balance should be rejected (and that's not the case like Dargo already stated).  The rejection or acception is only based on your balance. If not everything from you was accepted, although it is shown at your balance statement, then you should dig deeper for the reasons.

Maybe it is converted to Yen to make sure everyone can paid out, even if there are no EUR left. It is converted to Yen and then calculated how much you get. And based on this exchange rate, you will get euros.

PS:
I don't know if I'm right, just guessing like you. But I'm sure, your assumption is not correct.

[reb0rn21]

I am sad trustee have not rejected many scammers in bitcoin universe Jeb Mc., none silk road dealers, insiders from bitcoin circle which had inside info to dump on mtgox prior to close, most of them cashed out as soon bitcoin builder opened and suckers as me/others bought

[Dargo]

The max you can have a margin position open is 28 days (it's not a product for long term holding).

Can you elaborate on what will happen with my open positions after the 28th day?

... I need to know this.

Sorry for the delay in responding. I checked and at the present time we are not rigidly enforcing this so the positions would not be automatically closed on the 28th day. There's a small chance we might contact you first and ask you to close the positions, but I wouldn't worry about this. And at some point we may enforce it rigidly, at least for clients in some areas.   

[Dargo]

I'm not sure why most of your fiat claim was rejected while all of your BTC claim was accepted. Hopefully the trustee will provide a convenient way to dispute rejected amounts, but for now the method outlined in my post above (coming from the Tokyo District Court) is all we know. The amount accepted does not indicate the amount you will get back - I'm pretty sure you will only get a fraction of the accepted amount back (your share of the remaining funds).

Thanks for the headsup on the point of how much to be returned.

In my eyes it was not really usefull to recalculate every currency into yen just to not use it at the end because everyone will be paid only what is left on the individual currency.

I think that nearly no Euro are there anymore was because MtGox had withdraw problems on Euro for weeks and months before. Which was one reason why the bitcoin price was so high there. So no euros on their bank accounts might be the problem of high rejection.

The trustee didn't reject euro claims on the basis that there are few euro assets left. And people with claims in a particular currency will not be limited to what's left in that particular currency. All claim balances and all remaining assets are being converted to JPY in order to total them up and everyone will get a share of the total remaining assets based on the total accepted amount of their claim. This does not mean all the BTC will be sold though. The trustee, at this point at least, intends to give people who request it a payout in BTC, and the plan is for these payouts to all go through Kraken. We may handle some of the fiat payouts as well, though there is more uncertainty about this. 

[Ted E. Bare]

Thank you for your response Dargo. Good customer support is rare in bitcoinland. Kraken is definitely on the front foot.

[Sonba2]

I'm not sure why most of your fiat claim was rejected while all of your BTC claim was accepted. Hopefully the trustee will provide a convenient way to dispute rejected amounts, but for now the method outlined in my post above (coming from the Tokyo District Court) is all we know. The amount accepted does not indicate the amount you will get back - I'm pretty sure you will only get a fraction of the accepted amount back (your share of the remaining funds).

Thanks for the headsup on the point of how much to be returned.

In my eyes it was not really usefull to recalculate every currency into yen just to not use it at the end because everyone will be paid only what is left on the individual currency.

I think that nearly no Euro are there anymore was because MtGox had withdraw problems on Euro for weeks and months before. Which was one reason why the bitcoin price was so high there. So no euros on their bank accounts might be the problem of high rejection.

The trustee didn't reject euro claims on the basis that there are few euro assets left. And people with claims in a particular currency will not be limited to what's left in that particular currency. All claim balances and all remaining assets are being converted to JPY in order to total them up and everyone will get a share of the total remaining assets based on the total accepted amount of their claim. This does not mean all the BTC will be sold though. The trustee, at this point at least, intends to give people who request it a payout in BTC, and the plan is for these payouts to all go through Kraken. We may handle some of the fiat payouts as well, though there is more uncertainty about this. 

Hi Dargo,

most of MtGox assets are the 202k BTC they still own. Do you know which quote will be used to define their value? I assume the one valid at point of distribution not the original one at point of bankruptcy?

Thanks!

[Serpens66]

Hi Dargo,

most of MtGox assets are the 202k BTC they still own. Do you know which quote will be used to define their value? I assume the one valid at point of distribution not the original one at point of bankruptcy?

Thanks!

I think you can just look at you claim acception/rejection. There you see, that the bitcoisn you had at gox were converted to x JPY, so that is the conversation rate I guess. (of course they were not really converted to JPY, they are still BTC, but there you can see the rate)

[Sonba2]

Hi Dargo,

most of MtGox assets are the 202k BTC they still own. Do you know which quote will be used to define their value? I assume the one valid at point of distribution not the original one at point of bankruptcy?

Thanks!

I think you can just look at you claim acception/rejection. There you see, that the bitcoisn you had at gox were converted to x JPY, so that is the conversation rate I guess. (of course they were not really converted to JPY, they are still BTC, but there you can see the rate)

Sorry, my question was unclear. What I meant was the following: some people asked for pure distribution in BTC, some for Cash. What will be the conversion rate between these two rates? (e.g. I get paid 100.000 Yen. Yen -> EUR conversion is clear. But if i asked for BTC: what will be the Yen -> BTC conversion rate?)

[reb0rn21]

Just ask for BTC, no conversion rate!
the internal rate used by trustee is used already ita a rate at the mtgox fall to define $ to BTC split, nothing more

ppl ask same question all over again, at the time we get BTC back, BTC price can be 5000$ it will not change you will get the % of BTC so far its ~24% from what you claimed

[bernard75]

so far its ~24% from what you claimed

How do you come up with that %?

[Dargo]

Hi Dargo,

most of MtGox assets are the 202k BTC they still own. Do you know which quote will be used to define their value? I assume the one valid at point of distribution not the original one at point of bankruptcy?

Thanks!

I don't know exactly how the trustee is going to do it, so the following is just my theory. Everything is being converted to JPY for the purpose of processing claims and determining the remaining value of the MtGox estate. There are potentially 3 different BTC conversion rates that may come into play: 1) The rate used to determine the value in JPY of claimed BTC; 2) The rate used to determine the value in JPY of remaining BTC; 3) The rate used to determine how much BTC a creditor should receive if they request payment in that currency. 

The rate for 1) has already been determined at $483 USD/50,058.12 JPY. See the answer to Q33 of this document: https://www.mtgox.com/img/pdf/201504_faq_en.pdf

So far as I know the trustee hasn't said anything about 2) or 3) yet. My guess is that those rates will be determined close to the time that claim distributions are made. I also expect they might use the same rate for both 2) and 3). If they determine price the same way they did for 1), then they will choose some date and time and take the price from the CoinDesk Bitcoin Price Index on that date and time.

Again, all this is just my speculation and should not be taken as any kind of official statement on how things will work.