Devcoin

[FinShaggy]

I like the idea of a "writers round" but I would like to see this kind of thing implemented by making sister sites...
Like, make a site JUST for writing completely original works, like books, novels poems etc.
Then have another site that pays people to post pictures
Then another that pays you per minute of video
And another that lets you sell your stuff like ebay
etc etc

BTW.

I'm making a website where people will get paid in Devcoin. I get paid in June, so that's when the site will be coming up. Unless I can get some DVC supporters to sponsor.

[markm]

The scripts should be checked to make sure they elegantly handle people's pages being removed, I guess.

That would require not only recording their previous number of words but their previous "high-water mark" number of words.

That way, a bunch of someone's pages could be deleted or grow smaller and it would simply dock their pay, as it were, up to the point where they are back up into an new total number of words beyond those they have already been paid for last time around before the deletions or summaries or whatever caused their total word count to shrink instead of growing in some particular round.

Actually maybe only high water mark is needed, in which case this already likely works, it just needs to not change their "previous total words" (which actually really would be their high-water-rmark number of words) downwards, only change it if it grows.

Hmm quite likely already done I guess; Unthinkingbit does seem pretty handy at writing scripts.

(His nickname is maybe misleading, he's not actually all that "unthinking" at all haha.)

-MarkM-

[WildElf]

Per unthinkingbit's request, please see two emails that I sent this morning in the attempt to clear up some of my postings:

Re: Did you write "Identity and Access Management"?
« Sent to: Unthinkingbit on: Today at 01:46:59 PM »
Yes, that paper is definitely mine as are the one's that are currently posted under my profile.

I was concerned about the other submissions that I saw there and realized after some investigation what occurred.

I had allowed my daughter to access my devtome account after I told her what it was that I was doing and she wanted to assist me as we are trying to get extra money to make ends meet.  What she did was post my "Identity and Access Management" paper to BigNerds and then took four to five other papers to post on the Devtome site in the effort to increase the word/share count.  You will see that this since been corrected and the articles removed.

Whatever action you wish to take at this point is completely up to you.  I have made the corrections on my end and can assure you that all further postings will be by me and will be genuine works.

This is what I meant in one of my forum posts about safeguarding my account.

Furthermore:

Re: Did you write "Identity and Access Management"?
« Sent to: Unthinkingbit on: Today at 05:48:37 PM »
Quote  Reply  Delete 
The writings that I posted were written anywhere between 2009 (when I started my grad program) - 2012 (when I graduated).  When I came across the Devtome site a few weeks ago, that is when I dug them out again, reformatted them for the wiki and posted them.

Again, I believe in this project and want it to be successful.  I hope that you can pardon this aberration.

[markm]

Yep, these go in pnSeeds...  

unsigned int pnSeed[] =
{
  0xb73c9ac6,

is what I have for the first node you posted the other day.

I used http://www.webdnstools.com/dnstools/ipcalc to convert that integer to an IP address...

...It came out as "The IP Number 0xb73c9ac6 converts to the IP Address 183.60.154.198"

So, backward, it seems, assuming said site is doing it correctly.

Unfortunately it does not use hax itself when turning an IP into an integer:

" The IP Address 198.154.60.183 converts to the IP Number 3331996855."

But presumably that is merely cosmetic, the array of IPs-as-integer should work with decimal integers too assuming that is actually what they are showing there.

So, using their page on our four stable node IPs, I have arrived at

Code:

unsigned int pnSeed[] =   
{
        3331996855, 3331996733, 1815951733, 84535656,
};

But... was your version backward deliberately?

Does pnSeed actually need a bytewise-reversed version (different-endian, or something) ?

I think maybe it does want it byte-reversed, as I asked that site to convert the first of the ancient commented out ones from way back when we swiped bitcoin code to make devcoin, and is said it was 29.219.16.50, but watch:

Code:

nslookup 29.219.16.50
Server:         192.168.2.1
Address:        192.168.2.1#53

** server can't find 50.16.219.29.in-addr.arpa.: NXDOMAIN

[bitcoin@megabox bitcoin]$ nslookup 50.16.219.29
Server:         192.168.2.1
Address:        192.168.2.1#53

Non-authoritative answer:
29.219.16.50.in-addr.arpa       name = ec2-50-16-219-29.compute-1.amazonaws.com.

Authoritative answers can be found from:
219.16.50.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = pdns6.ultradns.co.uk.
219.16.50.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = pdns2.ultradns.net.
219.16.50.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = pdns5.ultradns.info.
219.16.50.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = pdns1.ultradns.net.
219.16.50.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = pdns4.ultradns.org.
219.16.50.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = pdns3.ultradns.org.
pdns1.ultradns.net      internet address = 204.74.108.1
pdns1.ultradns.net      has AAAA address 2001:502:f3ff::1
pdns2.ultradns.net      internet address = 204.74.109.1
pdns2.ultradns.net      has AAAA address 2610:a1:1014::1
pdns3.ultradns.org      internet address = 199.7.68.1
pdns3.ultradns.org      has AAAA address 2610:a1:1015::1
pdns4.ultradns.org      internet address = 199.7.69.1
pdns4.ultradns.org      has AAAA address 2001:502:4612::1
pdns5.ultradns.info     internet address = 204.74.114.1
pdns5.ultradns.info     has AAAA address 2610:a1:1016::1
pdns6.ultradns.co.uk    internet address = 204.74.115.1

So it looks like maybe that spew of addresses is probably a list of bitcoin nodes, and the array does need byte-reversed addresses.

Luckily it is easy to manually reverse the bytes of a ##.##.##.## format Ip address before typing it into that conversion website, so...

Code:

unsigned int pnSeed[] =   
{
//      3331996855, 3331996733, 1815951733, 84535656,
        3074202310, 1027381958, 1966685547, 1760102661,
};

(I left the non-reversed integers in there but commented out. Just in case.)

-MarkM-

[Unthinkingbit]

...Again i'm sure i'll write up an article for clarification on what is acceptable writing and what is not as few emails I have received on such issues and few posts in this thread regarding such issues.

I’d certainly be interested to know whether the intent of devtome to develop into a repository of information for information' sake and traffic volume, or for interests sake and targetted traffic?

It is a repository of information for information' sake and traffic volume. Anything that meets the content requirements can go in:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#requirements

The distinction would make a difference to what I may write and submit. I'd like to make clear I'm not having a go at finshaggy or anyone else in particular, only that if the guidelines remain vague I'm sure some of us could dig out 20k word dissertations, essays, studies etc that would put most writers to shame in volume terms, but perhaps ourselves to shame in quality and interest terms.

The issue is quality. If someone wrote good dissertations, essays and fiction a while ago and is entering it all at once when they discover devtome, that's fine. If they're entering in bad writing, whether they wrote it before or are writing it now, that's a problem, and that's why we're moving towards revenue boost based on page views.

Once we get an impossible to game system for page views, we hopefully won't need a word limit. However, right now we don't have revenue boost at all, and there have been many requests for a word limit. I don't want to take away expected revenue, so the word limit should be higher then the highest number of words to date, also someone else told me in a private conversation about writing many words, and I told them to limit it to 80,000.

If people do want a word limit, we'll have a vote, and take the median of the result for every round after this one. Because I already told someone that they could write up to 80,000 words this round, if there is a word limit, this round it will be at least 80,000 words.

Edit: The 80,000 words was not my decision to make. I agree that it should be above 61,000 words this month, because changes should not be retroactive if possible, but I'll message the person who asked about writing a lot, and tell them about the new limit.

[FinShaggy]

have a vote, and take the median of the result for every round after this one. Because I already told someone that they could write up to 80,000 words this round, if there is a word limit, this round it will be at least 80,000 words.

If everyone is really so worried about it, I believe this is the best solution. A limit would fix the "Quantity over Quality" 'problem'.

[psybits]

have a vote, and take the median of the result for every round after this one. Because I already told someone that they could write up to 80,000 words this round, if there is a word limit, this round it will be at least 80,000 words.

If everyone is really so worried about it, I believe this is the best solution. A limit would fix the "Quantity over Quality" 'problem'.

Yes, a limit of 80 000 words is fine with me. Enables enough for me spend a coffee fueled month pumping out something psychedelic and not hitting the word count wall - when I have the time!

[FinShaggy]

have a vote, and take the median of the result for every round after this one. Because I already told someone that they could write up to 80,000 words this round, if there is a word limit, this round it will be at least 80,000 words.

If everyone is really so worried about it, I believe this is the best solution. A limit would fix the "Quantity over Quality" 'problem'.

Yes, a limit of 80 000 words is fine with me. Enables enough for me spend a coffee fueled month pumping out something psychedelic and not hitting the word count wall - when I have the time!

It also allows for back files.

If you reach the limit one month, save it for next month. Eventually you might end up with a year of work ready to be posted

[WildElf]

I would be fine with 80k per month so that has my vote

[Unthinkingbit]

..
My views would be:
if a trans-script of an open source TV program then this should get 3/5 share for collated work,
if a complete trans-script of an copyrighted TV program then this posting should NOT be allowed,
if a part trans-script of an copyrighted TV program then this posting should be allowed within reason... say limit the earnings to max 1 share, or 3/5 share

For transcripts, that is someone else's work, so it must not go into devtome at all.

However, reviews of other work is an intermediate category. Reviews can be written faster than original work, and are not as valuable. I suggest another payment category besides the current Collated and Original. It would be Review, and its value would be decided by voting.

Should there be a Review category?

[markm]

If the vast majority of all shares are going to go to writing on devtome, that is going to water down the amounts allocated for hosting and for developers quite a bit.

I do not know if that is particularly important though, since bounties can be used to get stuff developed that might actually increase the value of the coins.

I still keep wondering though whether 1000 words is really 10 hours or 40 of hours of work, which is what one share normally apparently is expecting to be paying for.

When we hardly had any writers, and they were busy doing admin stuff, developing, or whatever so didn't even maybe get around to writing much, the dilution effect on the development and admin stipends wasn't so bad maybe, but if we are going to have maybe ten or twenty or thirty or more writers writing maybe ten or twenty or thirty (or much more) thousand words each in each round, that would start to put a big dent in admin and development stipends.

Just saying.

Disclosure: I get admin and developer stipends.

-MarkM-

EDIT: My anecdotal "impression" was that writing articles totally from scratch on the spot making them up as I went I was making probably about a share an hour, sure as heck not a share per ten to forty hours. Maybe it was really more like a share every two hours. But I dunno, I didn't put many hours in on articles but some rounds I got quite a few shares for them. (More than for admin plus developer but for maybe less hours put in.)

(I am a poor guesser of time though. Maybe sometimes way more hours went by than I noticed? Hmmm....)

[FinShaggy]

Should there be a Review category?

I'm thinking a "Deview.com".

We should be making sister sites for all this stuff and do it like:
Out of 180 mil total
100+ mil goes to Devtome
X mil goes to the review site per round, and is divided amongst the critics based on word count, then eventually traffic
X mil goes to picture submission site per round, each picture is worth X DVC or a share, then traffic eventually
X mil goes to video submission site per round, 1 min or 1 video is 1 share, then traffic eventually
etc


I'm not suggesting it be done this moment. I just think this is a better option than making sections.

[termhn]

Already posted before but it got buried under a bunch of posts:

I have another question. What exactly is eligible for a bounty? Any open source piece of software? What are the limits? Does it extend to software like a game? Thanks!

[FuzzyBear]

If the vast majority of all shares are going to go to writing on devtome, that is going to water down the amounts allocated for hosting and for developers quite a bit.

Disclosure: I get admin and developer stipends.

-MarkM-

EDIT: My anecdotal "impression" was that writing articles totally from scratch on the spot making them up as I went I was making probably about a share an hour, sure as heck not a share per ten to forty hours. Maybe it was really more like a share every two hours. But I dunno, I didn't put many hours in on articles but some rounds I got quite a few shares for them. (More than for admin plus developer but for maybe less hours put in.)

Hehe everyone making sure they get their share of coins this round

but i have to say I agree the idea of writing 1000 words takes me about 1 -2 hours whereas to develop some app and maintain it is more like the 10 hours + and i'm "supposed" to be a developer Also for the record I am an admin and I have spent more time doing admin work this month than writing but will be getting more share from writing than admin work...

I would say that I think the max word limit is good 80K for this round sounds good...

Perhaps it is something then to set in place for all rounds here after as well.... and also with it a new tier writing system... just writing what i thinking here but say 1000 words earns u 1 share that round... to get next share u need to write 2000 more so 3000 words total 2 shares that round.... to get the 3rd share u need to write 3000 words more so total 6000 words... then 4000 words more for 4th share ...etc etc... or would that not encourage people to write lots? or would just upping the word count to 1 share per 5000 words?

..
My views would be:
if a trans-script of an open source TV program then this should get 3/5 share for collated work,
if a complete trans-script of an copyrighted TV program then this posting should NOT be allowed,
if a part trans-script of an copyrighted TV program then this posting should be allowed within reason... say limit the earnings to max 1 share, or 3/5 share

For transcripts, that is someone else's work, so it must not go into devtome at all.

However, reviews of other work is an intermediate category. Reviews can be written faster than original work, and are not as valuable. I suggest another payment category besides the current Collated and Original. It would be Review, and its value would be decided by voting.

Should there be a Review category?

Ok yes sorry u are right.. transcripts are not allowed at all... and agreed I think there should be a review category... with sub cats of Flims and TV series, Books and Music I guess plus any others people think good for now.

Also I think there should be a science category... have a bunch of science experiments some with videos that would be nice to share if anyone got any objection to that? Also perhaps a "Research" or development category where it would be nice to see more info on some of the devcoin projects that are perhaps in the pipeline for future technology etc... suppose I should go make the categories on devtome then and stop talking about it

Anyways good times to be into devcoins seems to be my favourite coin at the moment anyone else think the same??

Edit: Finshaggy posting

Should there be a Review category?

I'm thinking a "Deview.com".

We should be making sister sites for all this stuff and do it like:
Out of 180 mil total
100+ mil goes to Devtome
X mil goes to the review site per round, and is divided amongst the critics based on word count, then eventually traffic
X mil goes to picture submission site per round, each picture is worth X DVC or a share, then traffic eventually
X mil goes to video submission site per round, 1 min or 1 video is 1 share, then traffic eventually
etc


I'm not suggesting it be done this moment. I just think this is a better option than making sections.

I like the url Deview.com very clever ...maybe little to soon for sister site, no reason why can't get all content on one site for now... if need to... then can launch sister site would be my thoughts, but feel free to shout me down

Already posted before but it got buried under a bunch of posts:

I have another question. What exactly is eligible for a bounty? Any open source piece of software? What are the limits? Does it extend to software like a game? Thanks!

this was answered here by markm right after ur post...

Bounties are for items the devcoin project itself needs.

Things like free open source games, music, hardware, whatever, that is not something this project itself directly needs to have done, aren't rewarded with bounties they are rewarded after the fact (well, more like during the fact, I guess) by adding the creator or dev team to the receivers list.

So for example if you gather a few friends and form a team to create a free open source game, at some point along the line it might be noticed your game is popular and useful and the team is putting in 40 hours a month or more on it, and the team might be given a spot ion the receivers list; how they would divvy up the resulting coins among the members of the team is left up to them I guess, usually by putting their designated "team leader" or "lead dev" on the list and letting them divvy it up, maybe?

In the case of a huge project with a whole lot of bearing on devcoin, such as Open Transactions, a few pieces of the project each have a receivers list entry in effect; that is, something like three separate people, possibly even more (I am not sure, I know three for sure) are on the receivers list on account of the fact they are working on aspects of Open Transactions.

Bounties are for when we need something and no one is already doing it so a bounty seems necessary in order to get it done.

-MarkM-

[weisoq]

...If people do want a word limit, we'll have a vote, and take the median of the result for every round after this one. Because I already told someone that they could write up to 80,000 words this round, if there is a word limit, this round it will be at least 80,000 words.

Edit: The 80,000 words was not my decision to make. I agree that it should be above 61,000 words this month, because changes should not be retroactive if possible, but I'll message the person who asked about writing a lot, and tell them about the new limit.

Appreciate the clarity. Not sure I know enough about how the system works yet to be voting on it so I'll go with everybody else's median, but will say I dont think any word limit is the issue at all. If somebody has written a book worth reading that's great. So is a short specific piece. The issue is the max share per individual (outside the work done for the project itself) but I realise this is difficult to administer.

[FinShaggy]

Also I think there should be a science category... have a bunch of science experiments some with videos that would be nice to share if anyone got any objection to that? Also perhaps a "Research" or development category where it would be nice to see more info on some of the devcoin projects that are perhaps in the pipeline for future technology etc... suppose I should go make the categories on devtome then and stop talking about it

Anyways good times to be into devcoins seems to be my favourite coin at the moment anyone else think the same??

Edit: Finshaggy posting

Should there be a Review category?

I'm thinking a "Deview.com".

We should be making sister sites for all this stuff and do it like:
Out of 180 mil total
100+ mil goes to Devtome
X mil goes to the review site per round, and is divided amongst the critics based on word count, then eventually traffic
X mil goes to picture submission site per round, each picture is worth X DVC or a share, then traffic eventually
X mil goes to video submission site per round, 1 min or 1 video is 1 share, then traffic eventually
etc


I'm not suggesting it be done this moment. I just think this is a better option than making sections.

I like the url Deview.com very clever ...maybe little to soon for sister site, no reason why can't get all content on one site for now... if need to... then can launch sister site would be my thoughts, but feel free to shout me down

Science sounds like a good idea, I have tons of written video ideas for experiments people could try at home, or just watch me do from home to learn, and I also have some developmental research I'll be documenting.

Maybe it is too soon for a sister site, I didn't mean for the suggestion to go through instantly, I just think it would be a good move in the future. Because making a wiki is great, but once the coins are worth more, we can basically start an entire arts community based around devcoin. Which I know is the goal (plus science)

[psybits]

I think one share per 5000 words is a bit steep - certainly puts me off submitting a lot of writing! Maybe we should just double the admin shares?  

This is getting pretty complex and I'm thinking maybe UnthinkingBit has had the best approach, just letting the system (for the main part) roll as it is.

I think the word limit tackles most of the issues - maybe we can vote on increasing other shares for dev and admin work? Everyone has vested interests though (even if they don't mean to) so it is hard to remain objective and to be honest I am not sure what the best course of action is.

[FinShaggy]

...If people do want a word limit, we'll have a vote, and take the median of the result for every round after this one. Because I already told someone that they could write up to 80,000 words this round, if there is a word limit, this round it will be at least 80,000 words.

Edit: The 80,000 words was not my decision to make. I agree that it should be above 61,000 words this month, because changes should not be retroactive if possible, but I'll message the person who asked about writing a lot, and tell them about the new limit.

Appreciate the clarity. Not sure I know enough about how the system works yet to be voting on it so I'll go with everybody else's median, but will say I dont think any word limit is the issue at all. If somebody has written a book worth reading that's great. So is a short specific piece. The issue is the max share per individual (outside the work done for the project itself) but I realise this is difficult to administer.

I thought about this...

If you write a book that is more than 80,000 words, post it as "Book Title, Part 1" and "Book Title, Part 2"

[weisoq]

...If people do want a word limit, we'll have a vote, and take the median of the result for every round after this one. Because I already told someone that they could write up to 80,000 words this round, if there is a word limit, this round it will be at least 80,000 words.

Edit: The 80,000 words was not my decision to make. I agree that it should be above 61,000 words this month, because changes should not be retroactive if possible, but I'll message the person who asked about writing a lot, and tell them about the new limit.

Appreciate the clarity. Not sure I know enough about how the system works yet to be voting on it so I'll go with everybody else's median, but will say I dont think any word limit is the issue at all. If somebody has written a book worth reading that's great. So is a short specific piece. The issue is the max share per individual (outside the work done for the project itself) but I realise this is difficult to administer.

I thought about this...

If you write a book that is more than 80,000 words, post it as "Book Title, Part 1" and "Book Title, Part 2"

or just post a link to it...? Seriously though, while I guess it hasn't been a problem in a limited community I think the max per person writing share is a real issue and not addressing it will prove to have been counterproductive later, especially wrt attracting new info/work worth reading and continuing to appeal to the development side (not my forte at all), but most others don't think so and so I'm happy to go with the flow.

[killerstorm]

Maybe the lack of income from other sources has led to the estimations of how lucrative a wiki could become to have gotten out of synch with the nowadays lucrativeness of other projects? If we wwere running a cryptocoin exchange as well as the wki, which would make more money, I wonder? Maybe coding is no longer as non-lucrative as once it might have been? Or could be made so, if we could figure a way to get a cut for the project of the fruits of the labour/code?

You're onto something... I'd say it's hard to invent something which will bring less revenue than wiki.

Because, you know, content farm ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_farm ) is an old concept, and there isn't much money in this stuff because market is already saturated. For me, personally, it was obvious that it will turn out the way it turns out as soon as I've read description...

Anyway, perhaps it would be better to brainstorm the ideas instead of continuing schadenfreude...

One obvious idea is a game which uses devcoin as a currency. OK, we already have such , but plenty of different games are possible... It would be nice to have something which people could get into right away, like register and within a minutes start playing.

I mean there is a whole spectrum between Satoshi Dice and Galactic Millieu...

As for coding in general, it is a bummer that you need to get users _before_ you get any devcoin funding. This means that devcoin will never encourage people to start something new, at best it will encourage people to maintain what is already successful.

Just an idea: you could finance hackathons. The idea is that a handful of developers can implement something startupish in 48 hours or so... So give them a sizable prize, like $1000 worth. Sure, 90% of such new projects will die right away, but 10% of them might get successful... even wildly successful.

If devcoin will enable development of a new, interesting open source project, it would be great for PR... Much more so than, um, content farm.

By the way, this thread gets completely out of hand, I can't keep up with it... Did you consider making offshots?