Bitcoin Forum
December 02, 2016, 06:09:22 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 ... 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 [107] 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 ... 176 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Devcoin  (Read 368609 times)
FinShaggy
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196


Google/YouTube


View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 05:00:39 AM
 #2121

SUPPORT DEVCOIN HERE:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193121.new#new

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
metazilla
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 75



View Profile
May 02, 2013, 06:07:42 AM
 #2122

I suggest that administrators get paid two shares, unless that puts the total administrator pay above 10%, in which case the administrators would get 1 share. This way, if we ever get enough administrators, and so each has less work to do, our pay would go down accordingly. This would be done automatically by account.py, which would check if the administrators were paid more than 10% in the previous round.

Are there any objections, or should something be changed?


Sounds fair to me. Will all administrators do the same amount of work? Also, I think it'd be nice if there was somewhere everyone could see what work the administrators are doing, to hold them accountable (if something like this does not already exist.)

Unthinkingbit
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 900



View Profile
May 02, 2013, 06:36:02 AM
 #2123

..
Will all administrators do the same amount of work?

In the short run no, because each different task takes a different amount of time. In the long run, more or less, because if someone is doing a time consuming task, they should delegate part of their task to a new administrator.

Quote
Also, I think it'd be nice if there was somewhere everyone could see what work the administrators are doing, to hold them accountable (if something like this does not already exist.)

There isn't yet, I'll start by adding more descriptive terms to the bounty file. Later someone could put the descriptions on devtome.

markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1778



View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 06:46:31 AM
 #2124

What I do that is administrative:

Once a round I run a shell script that does all the steps Unthinkingbit prescribed for making the new receivers list. For quite a while he would paste the list of instructions and I'd reply that actually I ran a script that purports to do the things he keeps explicitly listing out in the instructions, so eventually the script got put on the wiki somewhere in case some day someone else needs to do all those steps. Basically they consist of downloading all the categorised lists and the scripts for processing them (in case the scripts have been updated) and running the scripts. Then I upload the recievers file to galaxies.mygamesonline.org (which the script does not do because I like to eyeball it first, which is how I caught recently the fact lots of records were missing, so it seems a step worth doing, even though presumably all the other admins also eyeball it before uploading it to their places that they upload their copy to).

It actually would probably make sense for at least one other admin to run the same script themselves to check they get the same results I do. But as far as I know all that happens next is Unthinkingbit tells them the new one is ready, they copy it from galaxies.mygamesonline.org and put it on their own site. (So I could falsify it bwahahaha yeah definitely someone else should check my results. Smiley)

I also control the knotwork github account where the source code for reference versions of devcoind and devcoin-qt reposes, and the Galactic Milieu project at Sourceforge whose files download area contains .tgz tarballs of those (and various other coins' source code tarballs and some Open Transactions stuff and so on).

I also control some domains on behalf of the project, we'll be talking more about domains soon along with things to use them for. Among them is the devcoin.org domain to which I have added some hostnames to point at "stable" / "backbone" nodes.

I have two "stable" / "backbone" nodes set up on dedicated servers, a 16 gigs of RAM server and a 24 gigs of RAM server. They are pointed to by dvcstable01.devcoin.org and dvcstable02.devcoin.org as well as having their raw IP addresses hardcoded into the fallback IPs list of the recent reference client on github.

I have replaced the receiver.h in my not yet pushed copies of the reference clients, it builds fine now about to try to actually use it.

Because I am also involved on the code side I have to try to keep aware of bugs found on the bitcoin side, and have over the long term put some fixes into the code accordingly, for example even though our code originally came from quite-old-now bitcoin code one or two BIPs were grabbed and put in even though we did not update the whole codebase. We also fixed the timetravel exploit, which bitcoin did not bother to do because it figured it has such high difficulty that exploit would not be practical for an attacker. (I think it was Unthinkingbit who actually came up with the exact code for how exactly we did fix the time travel exploit. He does a lot of work, working with him has been very nice.)

Like Unthinkingbit I have also been involved in the DVC/BTC trade on Vircurex trying to ensure liquidity (instead of, for example, just cashing out my bitcoins leaving the "sell devcoins" side full and the "buy devcoins" side empty).

Hmm off the top of my head maybe that might be pretty much everything "administrative" I do? Hmm. Maybe.

-MarkM-

EDIT: Oh I also am still trying to find a pool setup that will actually motivate people to use it, currently it is just a no-fee p2pool located on dvcstable01.devcoin.org - there are still no systems I know of whereby to count up the bitcoins people got from mining on the p2pool and somehow compensate them extra based on all the many merged mined chains, including devcoin, that their hashes benefit. They get their bitcoins automatically, 100% of them, but there is no mechanism to pay more than 100% nor to, for example, divvy out devcoins to them based on how much of all the other chains we managed to mine and how much, in devcoins, those add up to when converted to devcoins. So that is research-and-waiting (waiting for some solution to appear out there somewhere) and watching and meanwhile thinking about what would need to be coded to do it if it never does appear.

EDIT2: Technically I run a devcoin exchange, since my Digitalis Open Transactions server does feature devcoins and thus allows them to be traded against any other asset at any scale that is a power of ten. I cannot recall offhand whether devcoins are also one of the assets I issued on the OTdemo server. Quite likely it is (I think actualy it is), if not it can be done easily if there is actual demand for it.

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
emfox
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238


View Profile
May 02, 2013, 07:01:41 AM
 #2125

Because of the rapid devcoin growth, the administrators are doing much more than the ten hours of work per month that we're being paid for. In round 22, four full administrators are being paid a share each, so 4 shares for administrators, out of a total of 125 shares, roughly 3.2%. If devcoin grows quickly we'll have more developers to eventually draw administrators from, but we'll also have more developers so administrators will still be working more than 10 hours a month. On the other hand, while administration work is necessary, a frugal organization should not pay administrators more than 10% of the revenue.

I suggest that administrators get paid two shares, unless that puts the total administrator pay above 10%, in which case the administrators would get 1 share. This way, if we ever get enough administrators, and so each has less work to do, our pay would go down accordingly. This would be done automatically by account.py, which would check if the administrators were paid more than 10% in the previous round.

Are there any objections, or should something be changed?


I agree. And more, I suggest to increase to 3 or 4 or whatever more shares, if admins got all shares that less than 5%(or 4.5%), and decrease when reach 10%, to keep admin a relative stable amouts of all shares.

Earn Devcoins by Writing
BTC: 1Emfox1WswYcd2YucUskRzqfRWKkcm1Jut DVC: 1Emfox1WswYcd2YucUskRzqfRWKkcm1Jut
IXC: xnRKo3qSDdcPJ4pgTLER3orkquUVQXeLwf
markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1778



View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 07:05:02 AM
 #2126

Oh I like that "and more" clause, nice, thanks. Smiley

-MarkM-

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1778



View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 07:19:19 AM
 #2127

BOUNTY SUGGESTION:

A tool to implement paying out more than 100% to people merged-mining using p2pool with bitcoin as primary chain and devcoin as one of potentially many (currently about seven or eight or so) secondary chains.

Preferred is to pay them these extra (as in, above and beyond the bitcoins that p2pool sends them automatically in the coinbase transactions of the bitcoin blocks) earnings in the form of devcoins.

Because devcoins use the exact same addresses as bitcoins, it suffices to use the address they get their bitcoins at as the address to send devcoins also to. At least one user in the past said it would be better to allow them to specify a separate address but that is extra complexity that is not "technically" vital. It might help public relations though since otherwise people have to figure out the whole hassle of how to export their bitcoin address from their bitcoin wallet and import it into a devcoin wallet.

If they are to be rewarded based on all the many and various coins merged-mined, then some of the code people have already written for computing the value of one coin in terms of another might be needed, to figure out how much all those other coins are worth in devcoins.

On the other hand, just because some ticker claims they are worth a certain amount does not necessarily mean we will actually realise that amount when we actually sell them.

So it might make sense to do something like putting the control of the p2pool under the "DeVCorp" corp, and let it accumulate its coins of every kind, and pay people in DeVCorp shares. They can then sell those shares on the open market (e.g. on the Digitalis Open Transactions server) to realise those earnings. (I already have scripts that figure out the value of such corps based on what they hold, albeit several of the merged-mined coins are not yet counted in such valuations since some of them are not necessarily going to turn out to be worth anything. DVC and GRP and I0C and IXC and BTC and NMC and LTC holdings though are counted.)

Or, we can simply not count the coin types that the corp valuation scripts do not yet count, and pay people only based on the coins those scritps do imagine they "know" the value of. The other coins could accumulate in e.g. DeVCorp and anyone who desires to benefit from any value those other coins might some day end up having can simply hold shares of DeVCorp.

TL;DR a way to do payouts for a massively merged mining instance of p2pool.

It can be a tool run approximately once a month to do these extra payouts, but should not absoutely require the pool admin to have to run it at exactly that interval, so it should know when last it was run and pay out from then to the time it is run, thus allowing it to be run more or less often without losing track or getting out of sync.

It probably needs to both tell the admin how much it thinks it ought to pay out and ask the admin how much in total to pay out, because depending on how sales of various coins have been going there might not actually be enough devcoins on hand to pay the full amount it thinks should be paid out. So admin will need to be able to specify the total devcoins available for paying out, and I guess maybe it ought to keep track of shortfalls from what it thought should be paid, to make them up when the admin does get hold of more devcoins.

I see a potential problem here though if it takes a long time to realise devcoins from various altcoins.

So maybe having all the extra coins fall into DeVCorp coffers thus increase DeVCorp share value might in the end be the simplest/best solution in the long run.

-MarkM-

P.S. Hmm maybe stuff around the DeVCorp, General Development Corp and General FInancial Corp, all being DeVCoin-based Corps, might also count as "administrative" stuff that I do.

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
psybits
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064


Crypto Addicto


View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 07:29:43 AM
 #2128

I second Mark's bounty suggestion - more miners are vital to the Devcoin network. Apparently BFL is finally shipping so when I bite the bullet and buy a  little ASIC I will have it merge mining DVC Smiley (When it finally arrives!!)


metazilla
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 75



View Profile
May 02, 2013, 07:31:30 AM
 #2129

Quote
Also, I think it'd be nice if there was somewhere everyone could see what work the administrators are doing, to hold them accountable (if something like this does not already exist.)

There isn't yet, I'll start by adding more descriptive terms to the bounty file. Later someone could put the descriptions on devtome.

Cool, thanks. To be clear, I'm not trying to question the motives of the current administrators, I just think this information should be out there for the sake of openness. Also, thank you mark, that was enlightening. Smiley
As far as adding the descriptions to the bounty files/devtome, check out my idea in the Devcoin ventures thread. It's basically what I said a few times earlier in the thread - the official devcoin site should have a section with information about all the bounties/generation shares, how they were earned, and how much the payout was. In the future, hopefully there will be a central repository for this sort of thing. Not that devtome isn't a valuable resource, but I think the bounties are such an integral part of the project that they should have their own devoted section.

I also support the "and more" clause. Cheesy

Oh and mark, maybe you should add your idea to the Devcoin Ventures thread?

Unthinkingbit
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 900



View Profile
May 02, 2013, 07:32:54 AM
 #2130

BOUNTY SUGGESTION:

A tool to implement paying out more than 100% to people merged-mining using p2pool with bitcoin as primary chain and devcoin as one of potentially many (currently about seven or eight or so) secondary chains.

Preferred is to pay them these extra (as in, above and beyond the bitcoins that p2pool sends them automatically in the coinbase transactions of the bitcoin blocks) earnings in the form of devcoins.

I suggest a 6, then 3 bounty.

Quote
So it might make sense to do something like putting the control of the p2pool under the "DeVCorp" corp, and let it accumulate its coins of every kind, and pay people in DeVCorp shares. They can then sell those shares on the open market (e.g. on the Digitalis Open Transactions server) to realise those earnings.

The problem is that few of the alternate currency miners use Open Transactions yet. Until Open Transactions is widely used, I think they should get coins.

markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1778



View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 07:35:51 AM
 #2131

However much work it might seem I do, I would like to be clear that from my perspective Unthinkingbit does at least as much; imagining having to do his part too is daunting, he really makes my part easy by taking care of so much stuff that my stuff ends up looking easy (at least to me; part of all that is of course skill-sets, some people see some things as easy others see other things as easy).

-MarkM-

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
Unthinkingbit
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 900



View Profile
May 02, 2013, 07:39:36 AM
 #2132

Cool, thanks. To be clear, I'm not trying to question the motives of the current administrators, I just think this information should be out there for the sake of openness.

It is a good idea. We haven't done it yet because there used to be only four administrators and we knew what everyone did. As devcoin grows we'll have to do more paperwork Sad

Quote
Oh and mark, maybe you should add your idea to the Devcoin Ventures thread?

Now that we have an official bounty thread, where to ask for bounties will get fuzzy. For now the split is that any 12 share bounty should go on the Ventures thread. We still need smaller bounties to get devcoin stuff done, and people should ask about those on this thread.

markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1778



View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 07:39:44 AM
 #2133

BOUNTY SUGGESTION:

A tool to implement paying out more than 100% to people merged-mining using p2pool with bitcoin as primary chain and devcoin as one of potentially many (currently about seven or eight or so) secondary chains.

Preferred is to pay them these extra (as in, above and beyond the bitcoins that p2pool sends them automatically in the coinbase transactions of the bitcoin blocks) earnings in the form of devcoins.

I suggest a 6, then 3 bounty.

For what, exactly? Maybe I should have been clear that I of course mean a free open source tool.

So are you suggesting we want two such tools, 6 shares for first one 3 for second one?

Or are you thinking more along the lines of 6 shares for first pool using such a tool and 3 for the second pool using such a tool?

I want the tool to be open source, no number of pools using proprietary methods are really all that useful, they merely prey upon the open source community with their proprietary sites/services. We want the actual tool free and open source so anyone anytime anywhere can use it.

-MarkM-

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1778



View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 07:45:33 AM
 #2134

The problem is that few of the alternate currency miners use Open Transactions yet. Until Open Transactions is widely used, I think they should get coins.

Yes. Although supposedly an iPhone app is almost completed and will then be ported to Android so hopefully Open Transactions clients will become ubiquitous quite soon now.

We can use the same value tables I guess, and the fact some coins are not counted will hopefully be sufficient fudge factor to enture the pool does not run at a net loss at least ovedr the long term wherein it does eventually manage to get something for all the coins that had once upon a time not been valued.

My table-and-plot routines actually nowadays also upload the raw values that they are based on, in a form usable as an include-file for a shell script:

http://galaxies.mygamesonline.org/latestrates.inc

(You can tell which asset such a list is denominated in by which asset shows as value 1.00000000 ; in this case, notice it is DVC that is valued 1.00000000 thus showing this one is denominated in DVC.)

-MarkM-

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
Unthinkingbit
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 900



View Profile
May 02, 2013, 07:50:09 AM
 #2135

..
I suggest a 6, then 3 bounty.

For what, exactly? Maybe I should have been clear that I of course mean a free open source tool.

So are you suggesting we want two such tools, 6 shares for first one 3 for second one?

When I say 6, then 3, it's shorthand for saying the first person to accomplish the goal will get the first award, and the second person to accomplish it will get the second award which is half the size.

Quote
I want the tool to be open source, no number of pools using proprietary methods are really all that useful, they merely prey upon the open source community with their proprietary sites/services. We want the actual tool free and open source so anyone anytime anywhere can use it.

I agree that it must be open source. All devcoin development bounties are for open source, I just don't mention it because I assume it, but I'll add that in future bounties.

markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1778



View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 07:53:19 AM
 #2136

Okay so you are asking for two such tools then, the first to be rewarded 6 shares the second 3 shares.

I guess there probably should be some useful difference between the two?

Either written in different languages or actually implementing a different approach to how to reward the miners in devcoin?

As two doing the same thing in the same language might as well be merged into one (and in fact maybe should just be co-developed in the first place, both people working on the same tool.

-MarkM-

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
Unthinkingbit
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 900



View Profile
May 02, 2013, 07:59:57 AM
 #2137

Okay so you are asking for two such tools then, the first to be rewarded 6 shares the second 3 shares.

I guess there probably should be some useful difference between the two?

Either written in different languages or actually implementing a different approach to how to reward the miners in devcoin?

The reason the standard bounty has the full then half award is because if we only have one, everyone may think that someone else will get the bounty first, so no one will try to develop it. Also sometimes the first one will barely fulfill the requirements of the bounty, but be a poor job, and the second one is better.

markm
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1778



View Profile WWW
May 02, 2013, 08:11:07 AM
 #2138

Ahh, okay, yes that makes sense. Thanks for explaining it.

(See, this chap is far from being unthinking! Smiley)

-MarkM-

Browser-launched Crossfire client now online (select CrossCiv server for Galactic  Milieu)
Free website hosting with PHP, MySQL etc: http://hosting.knotwork.com/
FinShaggy
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 196


Google/YouTube


View Profile WWW
May 03, 2013, 12:39:20 AM
 #2139

87836/89000 Blocks

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
Balthozar
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 98


View Profile
May 03, 2013, 12:55:56 AM
 #2140

87836/89000 Blocks

 Grin Slowly but surely getting there. Watch the market the closer we get, and especially when it hits.

http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=wiki:user:balthozar | Earn Devcoins by Writing | Virtual Currency Exchange
DVC:1kFhM8vtEzbZ43Z5wcadPvNrb4xFXbgze | YAC:YHjjwLgjVfsnANTeb9eKeU3rtyKsFNvVCq | BQC:bUu1W2JEQzVrbFvv3EU4gW6KY2J939JDe1 | WDC:WTqa866TFP6d9HWGpYm2AztDNNMFmQ365s | FRC:1N2x7s8F78WiSFCFQPszLqhWsP6Kk1RXVp | NVC:4KcR3Dcmxz1ZDLK3VA9oHxpG4C3oYMCPeV | FTC:6ugwSRQNXQKNb5EVwQVn4CLoZNpiitiQzt | PPC:PSnEL3tmJejkdAAwiBLxSqbCide1voSKXY
Pages: « 1 ... 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 [107] 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 ... 176 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!