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Author Topic: Devcoin  (Read 368892 times)
markm
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April 29, 2013, 09:05:33 PM
 #1981

Part of the overall goal in "promoting" the Galactic Milieu throughout the Devtome is that maybe, hopefully, games might eventually be able to generate revenue, and the Galactic Milieu is pretty much just a vast backdrop into which any free open source game can be plugged.

If the game doesn't fit as being a client by means of which to play some aspect of the Milieu directly, it can if nothing else be yet another of the games the characters living in the milieu can play. For example free open source poker code could enable characters to play poker with one-another. Free open source monopoly code could enable characters to sit around playing monopoly with one-another, etc.

So it basically serves as a catch-all into which any and maybe eventually all free open source games can be tossed and all of them inter-related economically by way of devcoins and/or other similar systems of wealth and value transfer, and maybe eventually even lead to at least some of them being able to ship goods back and forth between them not just transfer cryptocoins back and forth between them.

More and more can be all woven together economically by the ability of cryptocurrencies to operate independently of any particular specific game, and the more they are woven together economically maybe the more chances there might be that they will tend toward interweaving in more ways too, creating a huge tapestry of interwoven free open source games that could maybe even benefit from synergy and become more than the sum of the parts.

The more games maybe the more players, and the more players maybe the more value any/all currencies used in the multiverse of free open source games will tend to become worth, devcoin being among them of course...

-MarkM-

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April 29, 2013, 09:10:11 PM
 #1982

Part of the overall goal in "promoting" the Galactic Milieu throughout the Devtome is that maybe, hopefully, games might eventually be able to generate revenue, and the Galactic Milieu is pretty much just a vast backdrop into which any free open source game can be plugged.

If the game doesn't fit as being a client by means of which to play some aspect of the Milieu directly, it can if nothing else be yet another of the games the characters living in the milieu can play. For example free open source poker code could enable characters to play poker with one-another. Free open source monopoly code could enable characters to sit around playing monopoly with one-another, etc.

So it basically serves as a catch-all into which any and maybe eventually all free open source games can be tossed and all of them inter-related economically by way of devcoins and/or other similar systems of wealth and value transfer, and maybe eventually even lead to at least some of them being able to ship goods back and forth between them not just transfer cryptocoins back and forth between them.

More and more can be all woven together economically by the ability of cryptocurrencies to operate independently of any particular specific game, and the more they are woven together economically maybe the more chances there might be that they will tend toward interweaving in more ways too, creating a huge tapestry of interwoven free open source games that could maybe even benefit from synergy and become more than the sum of the parts.

The more games maybe the more players, and the more players maybe the more value any/all currencies used in the multiverse of free open source games will tend to become worth, devcoin being among them of course...

-MarkM-


Exactly.

And you don't see that just reading Devtome, you have to look deeper, and even discuss things to learn what is being developed.

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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April 29, 2013, 09:21:25 PM
 #1983

sorry for beg, but i really want to try DVC, anyone can send me few? it would be awesome!

12ujQGDSNna785xCCnwRkRniNhPpgVYH8V

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April 29, 2013, 09:21:56 PM
 #1984

The Milieu is also useful for things like developing and testing - actually deploying for real live testing with real live commerce - the Open Transactions system.

That is because on some planets, transmitting value and using tokens to represent value and so on are verbotten by that planet's "powers that be".

The Milieu should always be large enough that there will always be a planet somewhere, even if officially considered to be in a wilderness beyond the official limits of extent of the populated "by civilised species" galaxies of the Milieu, where people can operate banks and stock exchanges and token systems and value transfer systems and so on, so that such things can actually be developed, deployed, and empirically be observed and worked on in live deployment.

For example if it were not for the civilised financial services rules of the planet known as M5, we would not have the Digitalis Open Transactions server and the OTdemo Open Transactions server running so as to have been able to actually do decent testing of Open Transactions this last couple of years or so. Three cheers for the Martians!

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marticps
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April 29, 2013, 09:23:01 PM
 #1985

An exchange... That would be good. Give Vircurex some competition.

Exchange is problematic in many ways, there are many risks...

Unless it is a crypto exchange, like powered by colored coins Smiley (This was a shameless self-plug Smiley )

OK, I'll give you my idea: a focused, specialized wiki.

Devtome doesn't have quality of standards, so there are approximately zero reasons to search information specifically on devtome. It is theoretically possible that you will find well-researched information there, but it is also possible that you will find a stub or a low-quality article. In this way devtome competes with internet as a whole: on average, results you get on devtome won't be better that results you can get via google search.

And it is hard to compete with internet Smiley

Instead people could make sections on some specific topics and optimize for quality. E.g. a sub-wiki about Bitcoin. It should be updated very frequently, categorized very well. So that when I want to get information about Bitcoin, I have an incentive to go to devcoin-sponsored wiki and get high-quality information from it.

It it doesn't sound cool enough, it is possible to market-incentivize creation of such topical sections: people should be able to invest devcoins into such sections... money which section gets from investments goes into improvement... which brings in revenue via advertisement... and that revenue is shared with investors.

I think it is cool because people get a chance to invest into web sites they like... That's (probably) a new concept.

And it can improve quality because there will be a competition between different sections, low-quality ones will die out, and high quality ones will attract visitors... at least in theory Smiley



I agree that Devtome has to offer something different in order to attract visitors. I like a lot the idea of specialized sub-wikis.

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metazilla
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April 29, 2013, 09:30:10 PM
 #1986

This seem to work for people that don't have, or delete old versions on their computer and clean out the old data directory. So it should work great for new users.  Not sure what to do about current ones yet.

Anyone knows how to export the wallet from the windows bundle, remove the windows bundle, install this version and import the current wallet?

Go to %appdata%/Devcoin, copy your wallet.dat to somewhere safe, delete the entire Devcoin folder from %appdata%, then install the new version, and copy your old wallet.dat back.

---

I agree that there should be a limit on writing (personally I think 80k is still a high limit, I'd say maybe 50k), or that the share value should be changed. The ~2000 word article I wrote on meditation took me maybe 2-3 hours to write (and I like to think that it's decent quality), while the Cryptocoin Ticker I app took me >10 hours. At this point it's much more profitable to do writing than open source development, which I think sort of goes against the idea of Devcoin. If anything, it should be equally worth someone's time to do open source development or open source writing.

Also, I agree that maybe there are better ways to generate funding/interest for the project. The hackathon idea sounds pretty cool to me. Smiley

One thing I think might help would be a site (on devcoin.org when that's up again?) where people can propose and vote on all the different bounties - eg. how many shares they are worth. At this point it's kind of hard to tell who decides this sort of stuff; it seems like right now it's Unthinkingbit and markm (who started the project AFAIK), but isn't the goal for this all to be democratically decided? I think that having to keep track of everything that's going on with the project, (bounties, client updates, etc.) in a single forum thread on bitcointalk will be a barrier to entry for some who might otherwise be interested in the project.

That said, I'd propose making a more clear bounty for an offical devcoin site (eg. devcoin.org), with clear info about the project, and maybe a section for proposing/voting on bounties.

Thoughts?

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April 29, 2013, 09:31:34 PM
 #1987

sorry for beg, but i really want to try DVC, anyone can send me few? it would be awesome!

12ujQGDSNna785xCCnwRkRniNhPpgVYH8V

Just sent you 1000DVC. Welcome. Smiley

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April 29, 2013, 09:35:15 PM
 #1988

Devcoin Promotional Thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=191136.new#new

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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April 29, 2013, 09:36:47 PM
 #1989

This seem to work for people that don't have, or delete old versions on their computer and clean out the old data directory. So it should work great for new users.  Not sure what to do about current ones yet.

Anyone knows how to export the wallet from the windows bundle, remove the windows bundle, install this version and import the current wallet?

Go to %appdata%/Devcoin, copy your wallet.dat to somewhere safe, delete the entire Devcoin folder from %appdata%, then install the new version, and copy your old wallet.dat back.

---

I agree that there should be a limit on writing (personally I think 80k is still a high limit, I'd say maybe 50k), or that the share value should be changed. The ~2000 word article I wrote on meditation took me maybe 2-3 hours to write (and I like to think that it's decent quality), while the Cryptocoin Ticker I app took me >10 hours. At this point it's much more profitable to do writing than open source development, which I think sort of goes against the idea of Devcoin. If anything, it should be equally worth someone's time to do open source development or open source writing.

Also, I agree that maybe there are better ways to generate funding/interest for the project. The hackathon idea sounds pretty cool to me. Smiley

One thing I think might help would be a site (on devcoin.org when that's up again?) where people can propose and vote on all the different bounties - eg. how many shares they are worth. At this point it's kind of hard to tell who decides this sort of stuff; it seems like right now it's Unthinkingbit and markm (who started the project AFAIK), but isn't the goal for this all to be democratically decided? I think that having to keep track of everything that's going on with the project, (bounties, client updates, etc.) in a single forum thread on bitcointalk will be a barrier to entry for some who might otherwise be interested in the project.

That said, I'd propose making a more clear bounty for an offical devcoin site (eg. devcoin.org), with clear info about the project, and maybe a section for proposing/voting on bounties.

Thoughts?

It worked well, thanks a lot! Now I can encrypt my wallet Tongue

In the other hand, I agree with your opinion. Also, talking all devcoin related questions in this topic is really complicated.


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killerstorm
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April 29, 2013, 09:57:27 PM
 #1990

It's not hard to compete with the internet when you are offering money.

Content farms pay for content, so?

This is all based on opinions of "content value".
...
And I think since we have only 20ish publishers right now, all we need to be is in development of something.

The content doesn't matter, as long as the ends are parallel with the goal of the overall project, which is to develop things into the real world, unless I am mistaken, that is what I got from reading the bounties.

The IDEA behind Devtome is that advertisement revenue from Devtome will be used to buy devcoins on market, which will prop up the value of Devcoin.

This is why Devtome is supposed to get 90% of all bounties... It is supposed to be a successful commercial project, not just a community wiki.

So that is the value I'm talking about: content which brings in pageviews and, thus, revenue. (I believe that you need high-quality, unique, in-demand content to get them.)

Devtome might be valuable in other ways, but it would be hard to justify allocation of 90% of bounties if it is not a commercial success. There is a plenty of other things which can be funded.

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April 29, 2013, 10:01:45 PM
 #1991

It's not hard to compete with the internet when you are offering money.

Content farms pay for content, so?

This is all based on opinions of "content value".
...
And I think since we have only 20ish publishers right now, all we need to be is in development of something.

The content doesn't matter, as long as the ends are parallel with the goal of the overall project, which is to develop things into the real world, unless I am mistaken, that is what I got from reading the bounties.

The IDEA behind Devtome is that advertisement revenue from Devtome will be used to buy devcoins on market, which will prop up the value of Devcoin.

This is why Devtome is supposed to get 90% of all bounties... It is supposed to be a successful commercial project, not just a community wiki.

So that is the value I'm talking about: content which brings in pageviews and, thus, revenue. (I believe that you need high-quality, unique, in-demand content to get them.)

Devtome might be valuable in other ways, but it would be hard to justify allocation of 90% of bounties if it is not a commercial success. There is a plenty of other things which can be funded.

What is a content farm? If it pays for writing I personally would have joined it, that is why I joined Devtome. I was told that I could earn coins if I brought writing to the site after I posted a story on Bitcointalk. So like I said, it's not hard to compete if you are offering money.

I know what the idea behind Devtome is, and I think popular topics will get just as much views as 'school essay grade' papers. If not more.

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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April 29, 2013, 10:12:54 PM
 #1992

sorry for beg, but i really want to try DVC, anyone can send me few? it would be awesome!

12ujQGDSNna785xCCnwRkRniNhPpgVYH8V

Just sent you 1000DVC. Welcome. Smiley

Your awesome man! thanks!

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April 29, 2013, 10:35:49 PM
 #1993

Firstly, I agree with an 80,000 word limit or 80 shares per round.
Secondly, I think it is too early in the game to drop the pay rate.
Third, I do believe that there should be some incentive for quality work, but then you would have to pay someone every round to read through and place articles in a tier of their quality.
Lastly, I DON'T agree that everyone can pump out 1000 words every hour or two. My research on Sigmund Freud and Ivan Pavlov take a lot of time and effort. It's not me just writing whatever comes to mind.

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April 29, 2013, 10:39:27 PM
 #1994

Firstly, I agree with an 80,000 word limit or 80 shares per round.
Secondly, I think it is too early in the game to drop the pay rate.
Third, I do believe that there should be some incentive for quality work, but then you would have to pay someone every round to read through and place articles in a tier of their quality.
Lastly, I DON'T agree that everyone can pump out 1000 words every hour or two. My research on Sigmund Freud and Ivan Pavlov take a lot of time and effort. It's not me just writing whatever comes to mind.

80,000 Words and 80 shares is different. Bonuses should still be available in the form of:
Sign on bonus
Bounties
Admin shares
etc

And just because someone posted something in 1-2 hrs, doesn't mean it didn't take them 7 years to learn it or cost them something to experience it, and doesn't make it any less valuable in terms of development.

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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April 29, 2013, 10:47:25 PM
 #1995

Third, I do believe that there should be some incentive for quality work, but then you would have to pay someone every round to read through and place articles in a tier of their quality.

Well, again, the purpose of devtome is to attract pageviews, so one can just measure unique pageviews and give some bonus to top 10%, for example... Of course, there needs to be some quality check... But I don't think it is hard to manage such stuff...

It takes way more time to keep up with this humongous thread Smiley

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April 29, 2013, 10:50:40 PM
 #1996

I don't mind there being restrictions on shares given out. And I agree with the importance of quality, that said, quality will eventually rate itself through pageviews, no? I think the less artificial restrictions we place on the system, the better it will be in the end. We should be writing quality material anyway, not just to make even more money out of something that is very profitable.
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April 29, 2013, 10:52:10 PM
 #1997

Third, I do believe that there should be some incentive for quality work, but then you would have to pay someone every round to read through and place articles in a tier of their quality.

Well, again, the purpose of devtome is to attract pageviews, so one can just measure unique pageviews and give some bonus to top 10%, for example... Of course, there needs to be some quality check... But I don't think it is hard to manage such stuff...

It takes way more time to keep up with this humongous thread Smiley

But I'd say that a popular New Released Children's Movie review would get more views than say, a paper about the economy of Russia...

If everyone is thinking outside the box, there is a new box.
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April 29, 2013, 10:52:50 PM
 #1998

]
Third, I do believe that there should be some incentive for quality work, but then you would have to pay someone every round to read through and place articles in a tier of their quality.

Well, again, the purpose of devtome is to attract pageviews, so one can just measure unique pageviews and give some bonus to top 10%, for example... Of course, there needs to be some quality check... But I don't think it is hard to manage such stuff...

It takes way more time to keep up with this humongous thread Smiley

Hahaha true that. I have to spend a decent amount of time catching up on this thread every time I step away from it.


I don't mind there being restrictions on shares given out. And I agree with the importance of quality, that said, quality will eventually rate itself through pageviews, no? I think the less artificial restrictions we place on the system, the better it will be in the end. We should be writing quality material anyway, not just to make even more money out of something that is very profitable.

No I disagree, something can be of high quality but people may not find it interesting. I could write a page of a bunch of bad jokes that would get plenty of page views, but it wouldn't be high quality

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April 29, 2013, 10:55:42 PM
 #1999


No I disagree, something can be of high quality but people may not find it interesting. I could write a page of a bunch of bad jokes that would get plenty of page views, but it wouldn't be high quality

EXACTLY.

Example, this page has the most potential of any on Devtome Smiley
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=cat_meme_page

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April 29, 2013, 10:58:21 PM
 #2000


No I disagree, something can be of high quality but people may not find it interesting. I could write a page of a bunch of bad jokes that would get plenty of page views, but it wouldn't be high quality

EXACTLY.

Example, this page has the most potential of any on Devtome Smiley
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=cat_meme_page

He gets it. Someone goes in there and posts 100 pictures found on google of cat memes, and gets a share, vs someone who spends plenty of time writing original content to get the same share. And the cat memes will always come out ahead in pageviews.

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