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Author Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency  (Read 9722710 times)
WastedLTC
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September 20, 2017, 05:38:22 PM

Was this an ICO or a mineable currency?

mineable and still mineable...   way before the days of ICOs

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September 20, 2017, 06:57:22 PM

If Dash would integrate mandatory privacy like Monero did, then it could easily reach the value of ETH.

That's a curious viewpoint, since Monero itself (presently $96.56 at Coinmarketcap) did not reach the value of ETH ($288.53) despite having "mandatory privacy". Meanwhile, Dash ($340.27) has much higher US$ value than either, which suggests that the market is relatively comfortable with its present trajectory. Even if your view is based on market cap rather than coin value, Monero with its "mandatory privacy" is far below ETH so adding "mandatory privacy" to Dash would seem unlikely to propel it "to easily reach the value of ETH".


Monero doesn't have the community size but it has the privacy.

Dash has the community size but it doesnt have privacy, but it is at least decentralized (if this masternode thing would sort itself out eventually) and well organized.

ETH is neither private nor decentralized and it's almost to say pretty unprofessionally organized especially in the DAO fiasco, the ETH Foundation has overwhelming influence and I don't think that is good for a project of that magnitude.


-Fee. Did you saw that monero have the highest average fee per transactions?

I guess privacy has it's own price too.



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HomoHenning
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September 20, 2017, 07:24:03 PM

it was a long time ago since I have informed myself about the current dev status. does anybody know it? when is the evolution release?

https://github.com/dashpay/dash-roadmap
thank you! It seems I had a six senth for this:

DashPay Wallet Alpha (September 2017)

should be announced soon or?
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September 20, 2017, 07:35:59 PM
Last edit: September 20, 2017, 08:55:19 PM by K~Ehleyr

I really don't understand why people keep claiming that Dash isn't private or "isn't as private as XY coin".  Dash's privacy so far has not been broken.  What better can you ask for??  No, PrivateSend isn't compulsory and, quite frankly, if it were, Dash would suddenly render itself useless to many real world transactions where users actually want or need to prove their transactions.  Fully private/hidden/buried/appearing only as a dream is great for some users, but that's one use-case that only appeals to one subset of users.  By having optional privacy, Dash is useful for SO MUCH MORE!!!!!!!!!  Not to mention that the Dash blockchain is fully auditable, which is essential for long term value and large scale adoption.  A currency built on a non-transparent blockchain is, in monetary terms, equivalent to magic beans.

Maybe some people don't like how Dash does privacy.  That's fine, go use some other coin.  Choice is a wonderful thing.  But please stop saying Dash isn't private or has weak privacy, unless you can fucking prove it.  Mathematically and empirically, not anecdotally or hypothetically.
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September 20, 2017, 08:14:15 PM

it was a long time ago since I have informed myself about the current dev status. does anybody know it? when is the evolution release?

https://github.com/dashpay/dash-roadmap
thank you! It seems I had a six senth for this:

DashPay Wallet Alpha (September 2017)

should be announced soon or?

yeah, should be soon .. within 10 days i guess.

Learn from the past, set detailed and vivid goals for the future and live in the only moment of time over which you have any control : now
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September 20, 2017, 09:24:36 PM
Last edit: September 20, 2017, 09:44:16 PM by afbitcoins

If Dash would integrate mandatory privacy like Monero did, then it could easily reach the value of ETH.

That's a curious viewpoint, since Monero itself (presently $96.56 at Coinmarketcap) did not reach the value of ETH ($288.53) despite having "mandatory privacy". Meanwhile, Dash ($340.27) has much higher US$ value than either, which suggests that the market is relatively comfortable with its present trajectory. Even if your view is based on market cap rather than coin value, Monero with its "mandatory privacy" is far below ETH so adding "mandatory privacy" to Dash would seem unlikely to propel it "to easily reach the value of ETH".


Monero doesn't have the community size but it has the privacy.

Dash has the community size but it doesnt have privacy, but it is at least decentralized (if this masternode thing would sort itself out eventually) and well organized.

ETH is neither private nor decentralized and it's almost to say pretty unprofessionally organized especially in the DAO fiasco, the ETH Foundation has overwhelming influence and I don't think that is good for a project of that magnitude.


-Fee. Did you saw that monero have the highest average fee per transactions?

I guess privacy has it's own price too.



Not to mention slow transaction times, bloated blockchain, almost non existant official releases, not very many full nodes on the network, and of course the opaque blockchain in which you have to trust there is no bad actor stealthily minting coins they shouldn't. But apart from that. Hey at least Monero has a graphical UI these days. It took a while.

Litecoin is a test net for bitcoin core. Icetroll seems to think the ultimate aim of any coin should be implementing segwit. At least litecoin has that. Bitcoin cash doesn't. I wonder which side of the fork Satoshi would prefer? Personally I like bitcoin cash. But when you consider digital cash there is only Dash. When offchain transactions are the norm (in the segwit coins) is that because bitcoin scaled or because bankers took over? Hmm

Sorry some of that is aimed at Icebreaker not you.

There is a reason for the frosty atmosphere around here which I think might be partly to blame for the lack of engagement when you first started posting on this thread. If you look through almost any of the pages in this thread you will find trolling, usually from Monero goons. Also known as Monerons . It really does feel that the Monero community try to lift their own coin by attacking rivals rather then working on their own tech. Often actual Monero devs have wasted their time posting on this very thread. Deep down I think it is based on insecurity, their faith in cryptology and their feelings of superiority are undermined by economic forces they don't comprehend.

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September 20, 2017, 09:55:01 PM

Frankly the way Icebreaker deletes his posts so as to repost to the top of the next page. I was going to say is 'pathetic'. But maybe it is just 'faintly embarrassing'. Whos to say? Anyway it is an interesting correlation when icebreaker posts usually Dash goes on a bull run. So thanks again Icey  Kiss

Dash MACD on weekly timescale has crossed bullishly



Looks likely further rises at least to the top of my pink channel, maybe beyond.
JGCMiner
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September 20, 2017, 10:00:53 PM

it was a long time ago since I have informed myself about the current dev status. does anybody know it? when is the evolution release?

https://github.com/dashpay/dash-roadmap
thank you! It seems I had a six senth for this:

DashPay Wallet Alpha (September 2017)

should be announced soon or?

It was already announced:
https://www.dashforcenews.com/dash-copay-multisig-wallet-first-step-evolution-heads-alpha-testing/

As I understand it is currently a closed alpha. That will likely change as things move forward.
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September 20, 2017, 11:26:02 PM


.....Often actual Monero devs have wasted their time posting on this very thread. Deep down I think it is based on insecurity, their faith in cryptology and their feelings of superiority are undermined by economic forces they don't comprehend.



The fundamentals and code of Monero are addressing important issues, and its proponents have many good points. However none of us can predict, with any certainty, precisely which properties are going to be required in the cryptocurrency/ies which may attain widespread global adoption.

More privacy always comes at the price of less transparency. I would guess a mixture of both would be desirable, with a large degree of flexibility of choice by the user.

Economic forces contain many unknowns, so it would be wise to remain agnostic as the ecosystem develops.
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September 20, 2017, 11:29:11 PM
Last edit: September 21, 2017, 01:02:46 AM by toknormal


I never said that Dash itself is useless, I am just totally unsatisfied with it's privacy promises.

Optimally Implementing Privacy in a High Value Digital Asset as Distinct from a Low Value Transacting Platform

It isn't the job of a monetary asset to facilitate "hidden" transactions because that asset will be traded in a myriad of environments, each of which depend on maximum public consensus as to its veracity. Case in point = encrypted blockchains. Most of their transaction volume takes place on trusted platforms where identity verification is required and where those platforms provide the 'privacy'. Meanwhile, the encrypted blockchain itself is about as verifiable as a highway through a shattered windscreen at 70 miles an hour.

It is, however, the job of a monetary asset to be fungible which means that one unit of its supply should be as indistinguishable as possible from any other unit from viewpoint of both keyholders and non-keyholders alike. That is Dash's priority and that is where it excels because it's been able to optimise fungibility against the background of a transparent blockchain.

Privacy in the Native Environment

Now lets consider "privacy", even if you want to use the Dash native asset platform as the transacting environment.

Satoshi already did most of the work by breaking the statutory association between the asset and a legal entity. He created bitcoin as a bearer token where nobody could know who was transacting despite being able to see, verify and endorse the veracity of those transactions. However, with recourse to off-chain knowledge it may be possible to infer information about keyholders identities of nearby addresses which mitigates fungibility.

What Dash does is to impose a cash drawer archetype on the blockchain to continuously restore fungibility without recourse to transparency or delinking of sequential addresses (which would eventually kill the public authenticity of the blockchain stone dead). That has the effect of eliminating the use of off-chain knowledge in combination with on-chain address patterns to discover the identities of keyholders.

There's your privacy. Perfected for a high value digital asset. Transparent. Free from toxic encryption and decoupled from the priority of keeping address balances visible to maximise public consensus as to their authenticity and consequent value. It's also decentralised because each transaction is treated on a case by case basis whereby it receives an arbitrary allocation of mixing sources as opposed to a single, centralised encryption algorithm. Users and holders therefore enjoy increased protection with increasing usage because any attack vector:

A. requires off-chain information
B. is limited to a single transaction, not the whole network

Where's the Value ?

If all you want is a valueless, hidden transacting environment, stick with SSL. It has a better track record than encrypted blockchains of not blowing up and also has far more adoption.

If, on the other hand, you want to own a digital asset of high value and mobility, that can be held, traded, publicly observed and verified with ultimate privacy then you need transparent fungibility which is what Dash has aspired to from the very first day of its conception.

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September 21, 2017, 12:50:54 AM

Are there any plans to re-enable instant send?  Grin Grin Grin

That's a great question.  "...and still crickets" indeed!

it was a long time ago since I have informed myself about the current dev status. does anybody know it? when is the evolution release?

Current Dash status = InstantSend has been broken for weeks and no concrete plan (much less working code) has been released to fix the problem of evil Masternode collusion.

That's what happens when you trust 3rd parties like Masternodes.  Your shit gets broken and the world laughs at you.  Every. Grin  Single. Grin Time. Grin

Dash is used to being a laughingstock (often literally the punchline in Core devs' jokes) because of its InstaMine, IPv6, ATM, debit, and privacy/honesty/decentralization failures.

But this time is different.  Leaving InstantSend broken removes all warrants to claim Dash is digital cash, as does the atrocious lack of fungibility created by the giveaway to Coinalytics.

More acutely, Dash is based on an ancient, creaky, dilapidated version of Bitcoin that is full of exploitable 0-day bugs, such as recently disclosed at the Breaking Bitcoin conference.

Worst of all for bagholders, Dash's Evolution is languishing in The Land Of Vaporware while an emerging LTC/DCR/VIA alliance of altcoins are successfully initiating cross-chain atomic swaps.

Dash can't do atomic swaps and can't support Lightning because of Evan The Incompetent Instaminer's idiotic refusal to use segwit for fixing transaction malleability, etc.

Decred and Lightning today showed the world what happens when you prioritize technology over marketing.

https://twitter.com/decredproject/status/910224860625780736


Meanwhile, Dash still hasn't blinded the Masternodes and thus cannot solve its tiny little problem with InstanSend being completely phuX0R'd and unfixable within the self-imposed 2-week deadline.

Apparently the point of Dash is to fund scams like MaxCoin Keiser's Russian vacation, a butt-ugly rented plane, and subsidize an obese self-loathing man-hating racist virtue-signalling blue-hair SJW who shops for problem glasses and generally attention whores under color of TrumpHate. Roll Eyes

The problem is they cannot use.block hash.because they do not keep track of masternodes at a per block level.. its a p2p list thats sent prior to.syncing.. in order.to solve.the problem you have to  come up with a deterministic quorum that involves the hash of the block along with input and collateral output.. just using collateral output and tx input gives offchain analysis attack.vectors that make the odds that evam posted in the whitepaper far less convincing for having a quorum you own with minimal number of masternodes.

 I saw this attack was possible before it was posted but didnt really know it can cause double spends so i kept.it between myself and a few others as we just chuckled about it.. but turns out more serious than I had thought..correct me if im wrong.but in order to fix it i think the entire masternode system would need to be reworked as a coloured coin type of implementation.

I also saw a recent push on reworking instantx and not sure if that actually solved the problem more than just patching it by allowing a 15 second window for instantx to complete.. im not sure how that actually prevents any attack here.


Ouch.  Dash's poor design decisions and resultant bad architecture reliant on trusted 3rd party Masternodes are not fixable problems.

Evan is like the sweaty stressed meme guy deciding which red button to press:
1. Leave InstantSend broken and abandon claim to be digital cash, or,
2. fork Decred and move the entire Dash coin distribution to a new blockchain via 1:1 airdrop.

But option 1 isn't viable because Dash's code was copy/pasted from an ancient Bitcoin release, full of exploitable zero-day bugs and thousands of commits behind Core 0.15.

If your friends want to test their theories I'd be happy to fund such research.  Let's see how many bad apples it takes to spoil the entire bunch.

Since exchanges are at risk of being drained using double-spent Dash, we need to put on our white hats and secure the vulnerable funds before the black hats get them first.

Another way to prevent loss would be to use Chris Jeffery's oomkiller attack to brick Masternodes until the network is paralyzed or at least segmented into uselessness.

I'll give 1 BTC to the first person who publishes modified weaponized Masternode code capable of carrying out this experiment.

The sooner we shut this scam down the better.  The pictures of poor desperate Venezuelans and retarded Iowan children being OneCoined trigger my sheepdog instincts.  Embarrassed


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September 21, 2017, 01:09:20 AM


Not to mention slow transaction times, bloated blockchain, almost non existant official releases, not very many full nodes on the network, and of course the opaque blockchain in which you have to trust there is no bad actor stealthily minting coins they shouldn't. But apart from that. Hey at least Monero has a graphical UI these days. It took a while.



Whoah hold on there buddy that is pure disinformation.

From what I researched Monero has over 1k nodes, well geographically dispersed, pretty decent for a project of it's size, while Dash's Masternode allegations still stand, due to it's costly nature we don't know whether it's the orignal devs setup the Masternodes or not, I personally highly doubt that many people have that much money to throw out on a node so, at the very least people should be vigilant about the Masternodes. So a sybil attack is more probable on Dash.

And you also seem to confuse Monero with Zcash. It's Zcash that has a totally non-transparent blockchain with "trusted" initialization. Monero is decentralized and trustless.


Now I don't know about "bloated blockchain", that's such a redundant term, almost everyone uses it to criticize a competitor. And the last time I sent a Monero TX (wasn't that long ago), the TX confirmed pretty quickly with decent fees.


So I think you are just trying to discredit Monero here from a competitor's point of view.


You are right on the GUI part though, I really had to learn the console commands just to make a wallet, pretty gruesome nerdy work, but I think it was worth it. A better GUI and possible mobile apps and such should be put out in the future though.


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September 21, 2017, 01:14:02 AM


Not to mention slow transaction times, bloated blockchain, almost non existant official releases, not very many full nodes on the network, and of course the opaque blockchain in which you have to trust there is no bad actor stealthily minting coins they shouldn't. But apart from that. Hey at least Monero has a graphical UI these days. It took a while.



Whoah hold on there buddy that is pure disinformation.

From what I researched Monero has over 1k nodes, well geographically dispersed, pretty decent for a project of it's size, while Dash's Masternode allegations still stand, due to it's costly nature we don't know whether it's the orignal devs setup the Masternodes or not, I personally highly doubt that many people have that much money to throw out on a node so, at the very least people should be vigilant about the Masternodes. So a sybil attack is more probable on Dash.

And you also seem to confuse Monero with Zcash. It's Zcash that has a totally non-transparent blockchain with "trusted" initialization. Monero is decentralized and trustless.


Now I don't know about "bloated blockchain", that's such a redundant term, almost everyone uses it to criticize a competitor. And the last time I sent a Monero TX (wasn't that long ago), the TX confirmed pretty quickly with decent fees.


So I think you are just trying to discredit Monero here from a competitor's point of view.

wait monero has masternodes? since when? I don't see it listed anywhere on masternodes.pro
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September 21, 2017, 01:16:42 AM


wait monero has masternodes? since when? I don't see it listed anywhere on masternodes.pro

What? I was talking about Dash's masternodes. Read my post again.


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Taylor05
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September 21, 2017, 01:27:33 AM

Proposal: Marketing (October)

https://www.dash.org/forum/threads/proposal-marketing-communication-october.16913/

Would you believe that Dash is working with one of the most prestigious marketing firms in the world? It's happening. This proposal funds a marketing contract with Ogilvy & Mather, a leading global multi-channel advertising agency and marketing firm for a professional rebranding and a digital advertising campaign consisting of strategy, creative development, production, and media management.
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September 21, 2017, 01:28:33 AM


Optimally Implementing Privacy in a High Value Digital Asset as Distinct from a Low Value Transacting Platform

I don't think you understand the concept of Fungibility.

Basically fungibility is non-discrimination. It's like me talking to a person on the internet, I don't know whether he is black or white or asian or other, so racism can't even possibly be considered, not that I am a racist, but the mere fact of somebody knowing some tiny public information can already be a point of discrimination.


It doesn't just mean the identity of the owner, or the source of the funds (criminal vs legal). It might also be the size of the transaction or the pattern of it.


* What if nodes/miners decide to censor or discriminate transactions above 10,000$ like we see with AML/KYC rules, regardless of origin. A high value transaction could potentially be flagged or considered dangerous, so merchants/nodes/miners could censor it or discriminate against it. It doesnt even have to be illegal money, it might just be a high value transaction, that people don't want themselves to associate with.

* What if people will censor addresses that make more than 200 tx /day. That could be considered suspicious too right? Possible money laundering activity? Who knows?

* Maybe I don't relay transactions with 666 balances because I'm religious. Maybe my cat died in 2007 so I don't relay TX that send 2007 DASH. You name it.



Do you understand what fungibility is? It's not just the proven or reasonably suspicious transactions that get discriminated/censored. It's every transaction that for whatever subjective standard is "suspicious" or unfavorable.



Anything can be used for discrimination. So you literally have to enforce equality on the blockchain, by anonymizing everything, but leaving it cryptographically verifiable and secure.


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September 21, 2017, 01:38:48 AM


* What if nodes/miners decide to censor or discriminate transactions above 10,000$...

You're conflating fungibility of the coin supply with "fungibility" of the transacting environment.

They are distinct.
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September 21, 2017, 02:29:54 AM

2017 is year for dash Smiley Smiley Cheesy
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September 21, 2017, 02:32:04 AM


Not to mention slow transaction times, bloated blockchain, almost non existant official releases, not very many full nodes on the network, and of course the opaque blockchain in which you have to trust there is no bad actor stealthily minting coins they shouldn't. But apart from that. Hey at least Monero has a graphical UI these days. It took a while.



Whoah hold on there buddy that is pure disinformation.

From what I researched Monero has over 1k nodes, well geographically dispersed, pretty decent for a project of it's size, while Dash's Masternode allegations still stand, due to it's costly nature we don't know whether it's the orignal devs setup the Masternodes or not, I personally highly doubt that many people have that much money to throw out on a node so, at the very least people should be vigilant about the Masternodes. So a sybil attack is more probable on Dash.

And you also seem to confuse Monero with Zcash. It's Zcash that has a totally non-transparent blockchain with "trusted" initialization. Monero is decentralized and trustless.


Now I don't know about "bloated blockchain", that's such a redundant term, almost everyone uses it to criticize a competitor. And the last time I sent a Monero TX (wasn't that long ago), the TX confirmed pretty quickly with decent fees.


So I think you are just trying to discredit Monero here from a competitor's point of view.


You are right on the GUI part though, I really had to learn the console commands just to make a wallet, pretty gruesome nerdy work, but I think it was worth it. A better GUI and possible mobile apps and such should be put out in the future though.

Thanks for tackling the FUD generated by the Evan's Gate cult to keep their members brainwashed.  Mind if I pile on?

The lies about XMR nodes are a deflection from criticism of Dash's many problems and easily proven false (which makes the initial lie more shameful/less forgivable).  Accordingn to https://monerohash.com/nodes-distribution.html there are "Total nodes: 1451" ATM.

Now let's consider how 1500 XMR nodes stack up against 4500 Masternodes.

The hardware footprint is similar for now, but we should keep in mind Evan is already acting to create expensive, obligatory, proprietary Masternode hardware because he insists on shoving every transaction into Layer1 like some kind of derpy crypto-clown.

So both nodes run on a simple $5/month Vultr, no problem.  That's good for decentralization, which is measured by the cost of the option to run a full node.

But Dash artificially raises the barrier to entry by 1000 Dash, which brings CONOP to ~$300k and thus destroys any illusion about the Dash network being diverse/diffuse/defensible/resilient.

Another aspect is how the nodes work together to instantiate their respective protocols.  Monero nodes do not have to trust each other because their protocol is trustless and does not leak exploitable metadata.  But Masternodes do not 'blind' their connections and so must trust their fellow Masternodes are not malicious or otherwise compromised.  The Masternode protocol was supposedly going to add blinding, but that never happened because Duffield isn't a good enough programmer and doesn't care about shredding his credibility with fanciful plans which are announced to great fanfare and then silently abandoned.

As for Sybil attacks, there exists in Dash an incentive to attack fellow Masternodes which has no counterpart in Monero.  IE, Masternode owners may increase the amount and frequency of their own Masternode Ponzi payments by removing other Masternodes from the payment queue (accomplished by knocking them offline).

Similarly, there exists in Dash an incentive to sabotage InstantSend because Masternodes reap higher tx fees processing regular (and especially PrivateSend) transactions.

Dash has no fucking business talking about a "bloated blockchain" when Evan is planning on moving Masternodes to exotic custom verification ASICs just to get around his failure to implement segwit and enable payments being moved to higher layers.  This moron is buddies with all the Big Blockers like Roger Ver, and in his diseased imagination he believes $500k Masternodes hosted in $1k/month data centers processing 500mb blocks is going to be the wave of future.

Compared to the latest Bitcoin Core, Dash's blockchain is bloated because Dash transactions still must use precious block space for mostly-useless witness data at the cost of excluding additional transactions.  This bloat cannot be pruned, unlike the user-definable pruning levels available in Core.

Where is the Dash supporter willing to honestly compare the total cumulative size ("blockchain bloat") of a PrivateSend Dash transaction versus one from Monero?

Of course the best privacy in the world isn't free.  Only a bloated blue-hair SJW with hideous extra-thick cankles and zero understanding of computer science would expect otherwise.

Having said that, let's keep in mind Monero's RingCT is the initial release, with amazing sub-log optimizations (google "RuffCT") coming Soon(tm).

The best party of Monero's CLI is that it kept Dash clowns from buying during the years of cheap sub-dollar XMR.

They were not willing to learn and apply themselves so they didn't get the XMR gains.

Back in the day, I spent a couple of weeks cursing like a sailor and popping telomeres just getting cgminer to work, followed by months of fighting with thermal paste/fans/firmware/drivers/clock speeds/mem timings/pools/orphans/rejects/variance.  That "gruesome nerdy work" was the most valuable experience of my life....  Cool

That's how crypto is supposed to work; it's not a free ride for the MOAR GIBS PLZ leeches.

We are now experiencing Peak Eternal September as evidenced by the voluntary transfer of wealth to useless shitlibs lacking any redeeming talent or ability.


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September 21, 2017, 02:47:06 AM


you literally have to enforce equality on the blockchain, by anonymizing everything, but leaving it cryptographically verifiable and secure.[/b]

Information for you:

Encrypted blockchains are far less "verifiable" and far less "secure" than unencrypted ones.
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