[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[Gaman]

Yup, in order to avoid disappointment

[makoto1337]

I have 2 news for u - a good and a bad one. I was googling for Nxt and...

Good - I found references to NEM among the links.
Bad - They say that NEM is based on Nxt codebase.

If u have marketing team u should spread the word that NEM is not based on Nxt code, or u'll have a lot of PR problems in the future...

NEM in general is a really hard term to search for. Hopefully that will change.

Once the alpha is out and things are looking fairly solid, I think then we will start to ramp up marketing.

[TaunSew]

You have to type

"NEM" coin

on google search and use the time settings (use a week or 24 hours) to find any mentioning of NEM.  It's not entirely fool proof but it does work to an extent. 

[j23a]

That's why I put Nemcoin in my signature, because just searching for Nem is not going to get whoever is searching anywhere.

[crackerhead]

You have to type

"NEM" coin

on google search and use the time settings (use a week or 24 hours) to find any mentioning of NEM.  It's not entirely fool proof but it does work to an extent. 

Although I dislike the name, nemcoin would be much easier to "market", for SEO purposes.
I think NEM will show up in search results naturally eventually though, without having to adjust the google time settings. I truly believe the web will be buzzing about NEM once it's released. Also there's currently multiple websites being developed that pertain to different aspects of NEM, which should be great for our search results.

[patmast3r]

i actually had an idea last night... can we get a multipool mining now? i mean launch the multipool now and let it build up the btc until the coin actually launches? the mining power it could draw due to the massive interest in nem would be huge! and plus if btc takes a massive run up again you will see the dificulty of most coins go through the roof again... why not build up some funds up.. if nem wants to drop a bit after launch let it.. then after the drop start buying up with the mined funds..? what you think?

I like this idea as well, it will allow another option for people to acquire NEM besides just buying it in open market... BUt you really need competent guys to be running this who have similar NEM interests aligned.  Look at the blackcoinpool, they are doing all sorts of things to attract miners, giveaways etc ...

I don't mind the 10% for the devs, but it would be comforting if there was some sort of gradual lockup period for the first 6 months or so to give outside investors confidence they wont be dumped on, a stigma which NXT has

im a bit behind but here goes.. using a multipool doesnt make nem stop being green.. nem still is.. the multipool would just do the same things as other coins (mine them) but it will do it faster and kill them off before all coins are mined which is actually beneficial.. why let all the other  mulitipools suck all the wealth out of the other coins when we can take a nice big slice too? build up a nice large savings of btc to add big big buying presure after launch! its all good good good! theres allot of people in the community that agree too... and allot of miners would get in on this to get cheap coins.. throw in a bonus stake or 2 on top of the earnings to give extra profitablity and youl get mega miners coming.. the miners would actually get the cheapest coins(bar registration people)

imagine the amount of nem that will get bought up if we got people mining and stock pilling btc for months to buy nem at launch! and loads of people will know about this and try and jump and get cheap coins before the pool buys in and raises the prices and others will try nd get infront of those people and the price will just explode!!!!!

+1 if you agree with people!

      Actually ,I was thinking along the same lines as this too. We want NEM to be green always but overall change in types of cryptocurrencies will be gradual probably. We need to dictate the pace and not hope !!!! Enforce our views from a position of strength!!!!
       Pow will implode eventually, we would just be helping it along the way. I do agree with Pat though. It should never be endorsed by NEM. Some of the Guys should just get together and do it on the quiet. as long as the goal is achieved.Also if people are swayed to join NEM sooner because of its success then it will break the pow crypto backs.
         you gotta be cruel to be kind in the right manner.

It's not like we can prevent anyone from putting this up anyway. Some wan't to support it some don't. I guess we'll see what happens

I don't like the "they'll mine anyway" argument because it's just not valid imho. Not only will a multipool give people incentive to start mining even if they we're not before but it will also further support the imho outdated PoW paradigm.
If all people jumped on the green wagon and all pools would close doors then the world would be a better place imho. Instead we're putting up a new one to get a slice of the cake ? It just sounds wrong to me.

Maybe we can get something going that will at least not waste the energy ? We could only support coins where the mining process is not worthless e.g. Primecoin and Gridcoin. Searching for prime numbers and supporting projects that try to cure cancer, aids and what not sounds a lot better to me than calculating otherwise worthless hashes That's also something that could set our multippol apart from the others.

[mamichula]

Do multipools kill the coins being mined?

[hisun]

Do multipools kill the coins being mined?

After a period of time until the nem released when multipool been everywhere, and no longer have the advantage.
Recent multipool coin in the beginning of decline.

[jabo38]

Do multipools kill the coins being mined?

A large pool can jump into a small coin, raise the difficulty level really high, and then jump out.  The remaining miners at that point have a hard time forming new blocks because the difficulty is so high. 

Recently a trend has started that some mulitpools will not only get a lot of coins while raising the difficulty, but then they will buy out the whole buy wall, in effect "dumping" what they earned.  These people then buy a POS coin that they are supporting.  It hurts the regular bitcoin and litecoin clones while helping the POS coins.  The POS coins can't be mined back so they aren't vulnerable.  Now while this trend has started, it is still very small and hasn't had an effect yet, but if it gets large enough, it will reach a tipping point and any miner that wants to make money will have to join in the multipools mining indirectly for POS coins.  So basically people that are pro POS could buy miners and then in theory ban together and kill POW coins.  It hasn't happened though.   

[michael8888]

You have to type

"NEM" coin

on google search and use the time settings (use a week or 24 hours) to find any mentioning of NEM.  It's not entirely fool proof but it does work to an extent. 

Although I dislike the name, nemcoin would be much easier to "market", for SEO purposes.
I think NEM will show up in search results naturally eventually though, without having to adjust the google time settings. I truly believe the web will be buzzing about NEM once it's released. Also there's currently multiple websites being developed that pertain to different aspects of NEM, which should be great for our search results.

www.nemcoin.cn
www.ournem.cn

[michael8888]

You have to type

"NEM" coin

on google search and use the time settings (use a week or 24 hours) to find any mentioning of NEM.  It's not entirely fool proof but it does work to an extent. 

Although I dislike the name, nemcoin would be much easier to "market", for SEO purposes.
I think NEM will show up in search results naturally eventually though, without having to adjust the google time settings. I truly believe the web will be buzzing about NEM once it's released. Also there's currently multiple websites being developed that pertain to different aspects of NEM, which should be great for our search results.

www.nemcoin.cn
www.ournem.cn

Its hard to read )

More power to NEM

you can read chinese?
http://www.nemcoin.cn/New%20Economy%20Movement.htm

[Thingamajig]

Do multipools kill the coins being mined?

A large pool can jump into a small coin, raise the difficulty level really high, and then jump out.  The remaining miners at that point have a hard time forming new blocks because the difficulty is so high.  

Recently a trend has started that some mulitpools will not only get a lot of coins while raising the difficulty, but then they will buy out the whole buy wall, in effect "dumping" what they earned.  These people then buy a POS coin that they are supporting.  It hurts the regular bitcoin and litecoin clones while helping the POS coins.  The POS coins can't be mined back so they aren't vulnerable.  Now while this trend has started, it is still very small and hasn't had an effect yet, but if it gets large enough, it will reach a tipping point and any miner that wants to make money will have to join in the multipools mining indirectly for POS coins.  So basically people that are pro POS could buy miners and then in theory ban together and kill POW coins.  It hasn't happened though.    

but it will.. and the sooner we kill off pow coins the better! (less energy usage)

if we dont and let them run their course.. they will be running for far longer and use allot more energy.. i see this getting really big and multipools popping up everywhere.. the coins that can will change to pos to save them selves and whats left are the larger ones like btc and ltc that cannot change.. all the multipools will be aimed at those and will slowly take them down.. and their wont be anything they can do about it.. it will take a while to get to that stage but i honestly think it is in the best interest of every pos coin to make a multipool and help crush the pow coins..

 imagine the energy we would save if all pow coins were gone and only btc and ltc were left.. which will happen! more so if btc goes through another massive boom! there are only benefits to running multipools.. the only negative iv herd is that it would make nem non-green.. not true.. if anything we are helping kill off the non-green coins before they get to mine all their coins and put an end to them before they use all the power needed to mine them... which actually makes nem an eco worrior(not just green.. but fighting to put and end to non-green coins)!

you should market the pool as being an eco worrior helping to rid the crypto world of all the energy hungry coins so that ALL cryptos can be energy efficient.. the pool slogan: NemPool: putting an end to power hungry PoW for a better tomorrow. imagine what will happen when the multipools crush most the smaller coins and turn towards bitcoin.. by then they will have massive hashing power and could be able to compete with the big time btc miners! and once the big boys see what we are doing they will then see that ltc/btc are doomed due to this and jump ship over to pos(more then likely the most inovative ones at the time being nem/nxt) meaning ltc and btc value gets transfered to us! the more people that move to multipool the more power we have the more we crush pow then more miners will come and keep going until we completely distroy all pow coins! ending with nem nxt being top 1 and 2 on coin market cap!

 now you tell me that isnt more green then not doing it and letting these pow coins happily mine away using insane amounts of power for years and years.. its by far in our best interest to crush them with everything we got and multipools are our most powerfull weapons! use them! or someone else will!

pat i know you are against the idea but is their any way we can sway you to the pro multipool side? we can get the pool running now and it will get allot of attention.. a coin running a pool before its even launched. that will get allot of attention.. but market it as an eco worrior.. the gains it will give to nem is a side effect! its a win win!

and pat it would look allot better if we have the devs on board with this.. the community wont look divided on the matter.. i think the support of the devs on this matter is important!

and it will show how much faith people have in the devs ability to actualy release nem and all its features! further solidifying the idea that nem is the next big thing!

I'm more inclined to lean towards no multipool i'm afraid. I'm also not fond of the idea of pushing nem as an "Eco friendly" coin.

Although it is greener, i don't think that should be the primary focus point in advertising - the green argument is a tired, cliched one, and if anything, environmentalists and other such movements have more of a stigma than anything else, which, for the most part, is largely justified. (When you consider their aggressive/facist tatics of getting their political agenda across)

Environmentalists are as bad as the liberal, left wing movements who, in the UK, are becoming more and more despised the more people uncover how much they've dominated the political and corporal scene.

Anywhoo, thats another subject entirely; what I will say is though, yes, NEM is much greener, PoW is unsustainable due to it's energy requirements (This is why i invest in PoS), but i don't think pushing NEM as a "green alternative" is in any way beneficial for itself in the long run. People are sick of that argument.

[Thingamajig]

I'm more inclined to lean towards no multipool i'm afraid. I'm also not fond of the idea of pushing nem as an "Eco friendly" coin.

Although it is greener, i don't think that should be the primary focus point in advertising - the green argument is a tired, cliched one, and if anything, environmentalists and other such movements have more of a stigma than anything else, which, for the most part, is largely justified.

yes you have a good point there.. but if you dont think the whole green marketing thing should be a big thing then i dont see the issue in running a multipool.. the only argument against it iv seen is that it would make nem non-green.. or is there another reason you are against it..?

I've a very vague understanding of multipool, but my preference is it's probably best we don't tamper with something we've not even got out the door yet. This is just my stance - yet i'm open minded enough to reconsider my stance the more I understand how multipool works.

[Conurtrol]

A lot of bitcointalk members are miners. I like the idea of introducing them to a good POS coin like Nem by having a mining pool.

[YoungTesla]

Yes, it looks like alt crypto scene is actually miners scene.
That is why so many people hates POS coins, they say they hate it because of IPO scams, but truth is, they are afraid of POW going away.

[Thingamajig]

I'm more inclined to lean towards no multipool i'm afraid. I'm also not fond of the idea of pushing nem as an "Eco friendly" coin.

Although it is greener, i don't think that should be the primary focus point in advertising - the green argument is a tired, cliched one, and if anything, environmentalists and other such movements have more of a stigma than anything else, which, for the most part, is largely justified.

yes you have a good point there.. but if you dont think the whole green marketing thing should be a big thing then i dont see the issue in running a multipool.. the only argument against it iv seen is that it would make nem non-green.. or is there another reason you are against it..?

I've a very vague understanding of multipool, but my preference is it's probably best we don't tamper with something we've not even got out the door yet. This is just my stance - yet i'm open minded enough to reconsider my stance the more I understand how multipool works.

ok you have conventional mining of proof of work coins to generate coins from blocks which uses allot of energy but energy usage varies from coin to coin.. bitcoins uses an astonishing amount of power and really it does nothing usefull other then mining coins by doing pointless math problems..

pos doesnt mine as such... every transaction pays a small fee.. all transactions with in a certain amount of time get collected in a block which a forger the confirms the transactions same as pow but they get the transaction fees instead of creating new coins. and because you dont have to do pointless math problems its far greener and any one can forge on any computer and their wont be hashing power wars like their are in pow...

what a multipool does is mine pow coins the same as it you were mining it directly but when they mine they collect up all the coins that they have mined(normally the most profitable) and then sell those coins on an exchange and then buy the proof of stake coin which they are realy "mining" for.. in our case nem.. so basically its just mining other coins, selling them and buying the pos coin(nem)

but in our case nem isnt launched.. so what im suggesting is to run the pool mining other coins and selling for btc.. but nem is launched.. so stock pile the btc earned and keep track of how much btc each person has mined and come launch we will have a huge amount of btc buying power to drop a mega amount of buying power on nem. what i suspect will happen is the pool will get allot of notice from people and articles written because we launched a pool so early before coins launch thus bring in more people to nem. everyone who follows this sort of thing will know we are guna have mega buying power so they will want to buy in before the pool buys all its coins and sends the price through the roof!

You make a compelling argument.

As far as i understand, multipools make up the majority of hashing power across PoW. From my experience, it was the multipools that in often cases caused sudden difficulty/hashing rate spikes in new coins once the multipools adopted them. As far as I could see, multipools were both PoW's strength, but more a weakness. A PoS coin like NEM could take advantage of them, at a lesser risk.

I see what you're saying now, and honestly, i understand where you're coming from. It does sound like a decent idea to me; I would like to know what UP thinks of this along with the rest of the devs.

What i do want to ask (To anyone who has an answer); has this been done before? If so, what (PoS) coin, and what was the outcome?

If it hasn't been done before, this might be a very good idea indeed.

case and point! multipools will kill pow whether we get on board or not so why not get on board.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=568517.msg6354181#msg6354181

the only people objecting i think would be people who have invested in mining gear!

Yeah, i admit during the brief period i was focused on PoW related coins, the idea of multipools was an ominous one, especially in light of the 51% attacks and such.

[patmast3r]

I'm more inclined to lean towards no multipool i'm afraid. I'm also not fond of the idea of pushing nem as an "Eco friendly" coin.

Although it is greener, i don't think that should be the primary focus point in advertising - the green argument is a tired, cliched one, and if anything, environmentalists and other such movements have more of a stigma than anything else, which, for the most part, is largely justified.

yes you have a good point there.. but if you dont think the whole green marketing thing should be a big thing then i dont see the issue in running a multipool.. the only argument against it iv seen is that it would make nem non-green.. or is there another reason you are against it..?

I've a very vague understanding of multipool, but my preference is it's probably best we don't tamper with something we've not even got out the door yet. This is just my stance - yet i'm open minded enough to reconsider my stance the more I understand how multipool works.

ok you have conventional mining of proof of work coins to generate coins from blocks which uses allot of energy but energy usage varies from coin to coin.. bitcoins uses an astonishing amount of power and really it does nothing usefull other then mining coins by doing pointless math problems..

pos doesnt mine as such... every transaction pays a small fee.. all transactions with in a certain amount of time get collected in a block which a forger the confirms the transactions same as pow but they get the transaction fees instead of creating new coins. and because you dont have to do pointless math problems its far greener and any one can forge on any computer and their wont be hashing power wars like their are in pow...

what a multipool does is mine pow coins the same as it you were mining it directly but when they mine they collect up all the coins that they have mined(normally the most profitable) and then sell those coins on an exchange and then buy the proof of stake coin which they are realy "mining" for.. in our case nem.. so basically its just mining other coins, selling them and buying the pos coin(nem)

but in our case nem isnt launched.. so what im suggesting is to run the pool mining other coins and selling for btc.. but nem is launched.. so stock pile the btc earned and keep track of how much btc each person has mined and come launch we will have a huge amount of btc buying power to drop a mega amount of buying power on nem. what i suspect will happen is the pool will get allot of notice from people and articles written because we launched a pool so early before coins launch thus bring in more people to nem. everyone who follows this sort of thing will know we are guna have mega buying power so they will want to buy in before the pool buys all its coins and sends the price through the roof!

You make a compelling argument.

As far as i understand, multipools make up the majority of hashing power across PoW. From my experience, it was the multipools that in often cases caused sudden difficulty/hashing rate spikes in new coins once the multipools adopted them. As far as I could see, multipools were both PoW's strength, but more a weakness. A PoS coin like NEM could take advantage of them, at a lesser risk.

I see what you're saying now, and honestly, i understand where you're coming from. It does sound like a decent idea to me; I would like to know what UP thinks of this along with the rest of the devs.

What i do want to ask (To anyone who has an answer); has this been done before? If so, what (PoS) coin, and what was the outcome?

If it hasn't been done before, this might be a very good idea indeed.

case and point! multipools will kill pow whether we get on board or not so why not get on board.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=568517.msg6354181#msg6354181

the only people objecting i think would be people who have invested in mining gear!

Yeah, i admit during the brief period i was focused on PoW related coins, the idea of multipools was an ominous one, especially in light of the 51% attacks and such.

It has been done before. I think NXT has a multipool allthough I'm not sure it's already operational.

AFAIK UP came up with the idea initially so he should be on board. No idea what the rest of the devs think.

[martismartis]

NXT multipool restarts Thursday at www.hashrate.org
Beta version was running for two or some weeks.

[Manowar]

What is the actual thread about Nxt since the original thread is closed?

I read about hashrate org the first time here.

[utopianfuture]

It has been done before. I think NXT has a multipool allthough I'm not sure it's already operational.

AFAIK UP came up with the idea initially so he should be on board. No idea what the rest of the devs think.

i think he means has a multipool been launched for a pos coin before the coin itself has actually launched.. could be wrong though.. by the way the nxt pool is officially launching soon and coming out of beta with 10% bonus for all miners a day!

I would personally support NEM multi pool since as I understand it would give miners automatous access to NEM without paying for NEM directly via an an exchange. That is a valuable service to NEM making it accessible to everyone with different tastes since I think some people are  averse to the idea of buying a cypto directly.

Green marketing ploy started with Peercoin people and continued by Nxt people but never actually caught on. imho, the issue should be rephrased better under the term of network efficiency. NEM network is more efficient than Bitcoin because it takes less power to maintain and still have the same level of security. The efficiency gain comes from utilizing POS/ POI foraging algorithm instead POW algorithm which consumes much more power at the same time gives rise to a computational arm-race whenever bitcoin price is increasing. So we can say the "green" aspect comes from the algorithm each network utilizes not really related to the method how an individual choose to obtain the coin.

I am interested in hearing other opinions but I would think a multi-pool could be considered an useful part of NEM ecosystem as much as an exchange is. But I agree with what someone said before that the multi pool idea will be less and less potent when more people are adopting it.

Anyway: just a reminder to all that stake-complaint thread will still be open until Friday to all refunding complaints (one week from the last update when the list was published). After Friday all refunding without a complaint would be final and we can move on to consolidate the final stakeholder list further and start to invite people in the waiting list to be in. Thanks.