[ANN] Ethereum: Welcome to the Beginning

[ddink7]

The community is obviously very divided about many of the issues raised. Some of the concerns are rational and others not so much. In any case, when they get to breathe after the Miami conference, it'd be good to see what kind of response we get.

Agreed. I for one can't wait to see the prospectus.

I'll be the first to admit: the technical and regulatory challenges are immense. But I'm sure Satoshi's contemporaries felt the same way. We will see what we will see!

[gutshot5820]

The community is obviously very divided about many of the issues raised. Some of the concerns are rational and others not so much. In any case, when they get to breathe after the Miami conference, it'd be good to see what kind of response we get.

Agreed. I for one can't wait to see the prospectus.

I'll be the first to admit: the technical and regulatory challenges are immense. But I'm sure Satoshi's contemporaries felt the same way. We will see what we will see!

A prospectus without an underwriter and filing with the SEC?  What a joke! an IPO without an underwriter and investment bank?  Hilarious.  The prospectus will not be worth the ink and paper its written on.  You might as well call it a marketing brochure.
Calling it an IPO is a deception to make it seem more palatable and legal, (fudge advertising with misleading words) nothing could be further from the truth.  This is NOT an IPO, it is them begging you to give them 30,000 BTC.  IPO....LMAO

[td services]

 This is NOT an IPO

You actually said something I can agree with. These pre-sales should not be called IPOs, which is why I avoid using the term to refer to them. The closest thing to conventional start-up financing is seed funding, a pre-series A.

BTW, it is currently impossible to file crowdfunding paperwork with the SEC since they are 9 months overdue in issuing the implementing regulations for crowdfunding for the JOBS Act.

[lonsharim]

This thread is such a joke.  You have the EXACT three or four guys repeating over and over again what a great product it is and attacking and demoralizing anyone who has a negative opinion about it.  Go to just about any forum thats sells products and you see the same pattern.  Three or four shills pumping up the product throughout the entire thread making it seem like the entire community thinks it is awesome.  This crowdfundraising is a total scam job.  Who in their right mind gives 30,000 in untraceable bitcoins to a bunch of total strangers that refuse to file the proper paperwork that is required when crowdfundraising.  This legally required fundraising is designed to provide transparency and protect people against fraud.  This is not your average coin launch that does a percentage of pre-mine for advertising.  They lost their right of anonymity as small time devs just casually creating coins when they asked for 36 million dollars from the public. When you ask for that kind of cash, you MUST file the proper paperwork.

They are asking YOU and the entire bitcoin community to TRUST them and GIVE them 30,000 BTC before launch and make them millions before one coin is mined with absolutely no documentation, no insurance, no bond, no transparency, no regulatory filings.  Do not let them deceive you.  This is not just another coin launch.  When you ask for this type of money, you MUST file the proper paperwork and background checks.  Who are these guys?  ONE youtube video and they are asking for 30,000 BTC.  Let them earn their money like every other dev, mine a small part and let the market decide how much the coins should be worth. Even if you like the tech DO NOT enable this kind of behaviour and let these fukin devs take advantage of the bitcoin community.  They want to be millionaires with YOUR money before even launching.  They want YOU to take ALL the risk while they become millionaires with ZERO risk.    They will be laughing all the way to the bank in their new Lamborghinis and Homes, while you are nervous about your money the entire time.  They have no sweat equity or money in of their own in this project.  Does this seem right to you?

Actually if anyone has bombarded this thread by repeating the same point over and over and over again, it is you.

You have been repeatedly told that 30,000 BTC does not translate to 36 million dollars on current BTC prices but you ignore them and stick to your version. You just want to scare people away. You have repeatedly been told that 30,000 represents a hard cap and it remains to be seen how much our community actually invests but again you only acknowledge what is convenient for you. For the record what is the largest IPO in BTC terms that has been raised for alt-coins. I know XCP has PoB'ed 1600+ BTC. Anything higher than that? ETH might not attract an investment in 5 digits so I really do not understand the fuss.

You ask for conformity with US regulations when this is NOT a project within American jurisdiction and global investors including investors from outside your country. You know people do exist who are not American. Should they file paperwork with every country where investors come from?

Everyone has a choice. You have made it clear that this is scam. So don't invest in it. You want to educate others about it? I have read a dozen of your posts that essentially make the same point. It's got to a point where this is now verbal diarrhea ad nauseum.

I suspect you actually do want to invest a large amount yourself so by scaring the crap out of people you want to minimize dilution. You can deny all you want but there is no other motive strong enough to repeatedly change the narrative of this thread your way with nothing else to gain. If I thought this was a scam I would have had my say and then left this thread alone.

I am going to add you to my ignore list and urge everyone to - because you have ceased to provide anything meaningful to this conversation.

[gutshot5820]

This is NOT an IPO

You actually said something I can agree with. These pre-sales should not be called IPOs, which is why I avoid using the term to refer to them. The closest thing to conventional start-up financing is seed funding, a pre-series A.

BTW, it is currently impossible to file crowdfunding paperwork with the SEC since they are 9 months overdue in issuing the implementing regulations for crowdfunding for the JOBS Act.

However you want to explain it.  They are operating illegally.  Do not be surprised if the SEC and other federal agencies in Canada and USA shut them down and confiscate everything.  No entity can raise 36 million from the public and escape the scrutiny of the law.  As I said many times before, I am not a fan of big government, but I am big fan of fair play and all companies operating within regulatory laws in order to prevent FRAUD.  Please do not follow my comment with, that's just the way the crypto community works.  Yes, that is how it is UNTIL you start asking for 36 million from the public.  Then you lose your "I am just a dev working hard to earn money" privilege.  When you ask the public to fund that kind of money you are no longer a small crypto entrepreneur, you are pretending to be a Goliath Corporation.  

You can say Microsoft and Google did it with an IPO.  YES, they did, but they had years of sweat equity, VC funding, they filed all the proper paperwork earned their success and THEN filed the proper paperwork with the SEC for an IPO and were legally compliant.  Ethereum's investment pattern does not fit the model of Google and Microsoft.  It fits the pattern of every fraudulent and manipulative company.  Think about what I just said.

This is not an IPO, they have no sweat equity or principle money of their own involved, no VC in their right mind would invest a penny in their company, and they are skirting every financial regulation you can think of.  They are requesting to get paid in untraceable bitcoin so if something happens they are already wealthy and can claim complete deniability.  They are protected from civil lawsuit because there is no way to prove their identity and receipt of money.

[gutshot5820]

This thread is such a joke.  You have the EXACT three or four guys repeating over and over again what a great product it is and attacking and demoralizing anyone who has a negative opinion about it.  Go to just about any forum thats sells products and you see the same pattern.  Three or four shills pumping up the product throughout the entire thread making it seem like the entire community thinks it is awesome.  This crowdfundraising is a total scam job.  Who in their right mind gives 30,000 in untraceable bitcoins to a bunch of total strangers that refuse to file the proper paperwork that is required when crowdfundraising.  This legally required fundraising is designed to provide transparency and protect people against fraud.  This is not your average coin launch that does a percentage of pre-mine for advertising.  They lost their right of anonymity as small time devs just casually creating coins when they asked for 36 million dollars from the public. When you ask for that kind of cash, you MUST file the proper paperwork.

They are asking YOU and the entire bitcoin community to TRUST them and GIVE them 30,000 BTC before launch and make them millions before one coin is mined with absolutely no documentation, no insurance, no bond, no transparency, no regulatory filings.  Do not let them deceive you.  This is not just another coin launch.  When you ask for this type of money, you MUST file the proper paperwork and background checks.  Who are these guys?  ONE youtube video and they are asking for 30,000 BTC.  Let them earn their money like every other dev, mine a small part and let the market decide how much the coins should be worth. Even if you like the tech DO NOT enable this kind of behaviour and let these fukin devs take advantage of the bitcoin community.  They want to be millionaires with YOUR money before even launching.  They want YOU to take ALL the risk while they become millionaires with ZERO risk.    They will be laughing all the way to the bank in their new Lamborghinis and Homes, while you are nervous about your money the entire time.  They have no sweat equity or money in of their own in this project.  Does this seem right to you?

Actually if anyone has bombarded this thread by repeating the same point over and over and over again, it is you.

You have been repeatedly told that 30,000 BTC does not translate to 36 million dollars on current BTC prices but you ignore them and stick to your version. You just want to scare people away. You have repeatedly been told that 30,000 represents a hard cap and it remains to be seen how much our community actually invests but again you only acknowledge what is convenient for you. For the record what is the largest IPO in BTC terms that has been raised for alt-coins. I know XCP has PoB'ed 1600+ BTC. Anything higher than that? ETH might not attract an investment in 5 digits so I really do not understand the fuss.

You ask for conformity with US regulations when this is NOT a project within American jurisdiction and global investors including investors from outside your country. You know people do exist who are not American. Should they file paperwork with every country where investors come from?

Everyone has a choice. You have made it clear that this is scam. So don't invest in it. You want to educate others about it? I have read a dozen of your posts that essentially make the same point. It's got to a point where this is now verbal diarrhea ad nauseum.

I suspect you actually do want to invest a large amount yourself so by scaring the crap out of people you want to minimize dilution. You can deny all you want but there is no other motive strong enough to repeatedly change the narrative of this thread your way with nothing else to gain. If I thought this was a scam I would have had my say and then left this thread alone.

I am going to add you to my ignore list and urge everyone to - because you have ceased to provide anything meaningful to this conversation.

Your comments are worthless.  It is obvious from your previous posts you are a HUGE ethereum backer so please do ignore me because I am trying to make people aware of scums like you.  You are advocating to the entire bitcoin community to send these guys 30,000 bitcoin with nothing, no paperwork , no background checks, no legal filings, your excuse is they are not in USA, hey buddy I have news for you.  Canada has ten times more legal restrictions when it comes to crowdfundraising than USA.  Why are you so interested in having people send 30,000 bitcoin of their own money to total strangers with no transparency?  Because you want to get paid.  You willingly and willfully ignore all laws and condemn others that ask for more transparency and in compliance with all the laws and regulations.  

You are the scum of the earth. you are so filled with greed that you will intentionally advise people to send money to total strangers based off a youtube video.  You know how funny that sounds?  Who in their right mind would send 36 million dollars to anybody without COMPLETE due diligence.  You know who the people are that get ripped off and lose their life savings?  People that invest and send their money to total strangers that operate outside the law.  And those companies have assholes like you intimidating others from any criticism until its too late.

"I suspect you actually do want to invest a large amount yourself so by scaring the crap out of people you want to minimize dilution."

You are demented and shallow in your thinking.  I am a casual crypto coin investor, as you can see from my previous posts.  I have invested in BTC, LTC, MEOW, DGB and KDC.  I was interested in investing in Ethereum until I read more about it, the more questions I asked the more aggressive responses I received from invested people like you.  That got me more curious as to why people were getting so angry when all I was asking for was more transparency.  So all I am trying to do is shine a light on topics people who have a vested interest in Ethereum are angrily and violently trying to steer people away from.  Thats my purpose for hanging around.  Whats yours?  Fukin pure greed.  Whats the difference between you and other Wall Street asshole like Goldman Sachs?  Nothing, you will do whatever to  make a quick buck and greed rules your character, you try to blindly steer people away when they start asking questions about the truth so you can make money.  I have nothing against people trying to make money, we all want to be wealthy.  I have problems with people and entities trying to scam other people and skirt the regulations that will prevent fraudulent activity.

[gutshot5820]

For all you developers who have ever sponsored or was a principle of a coin that received any kind of substantial seed money.  This action and business plan by Ethereum puts all of you at risk.  Why?  There is no way that this amount of crowdfund capital will escape the scrutiny of the SEC and other federal agencies in USA and Canada.  There are huge tax implications and regulatory concerns and fraudulent safeguards that will not be overlooked.  Once they hear about this amount of capital that was taken from the general public, there will be an investigation. mark my words.  These guys are literally trying to scam you with the words "IPO" and "prospectus" while nothing can be further from the truth.  By using those very tactics they have breached vagueness of the law and have committed multiple felonies.  Once the Feds and agencies investigate Ethereum, they will investigate every company/coin/dev that ever received any type of seed money through pre-sale or other.  Everyone will be scrutinized for breaking tax laws, financing laws, etc.. Do not support this type of business plan.  It is bad for your business and the whole bitcoin community in general.  Just because people got away with it before doesn't mean it will last.  All Ethereum is doing is drawing more attention from the government.

[superresistant]

As surprising as it might sound from me, I might invest in Ethereum and get out before the pump phase is over. The basic idea is ingenious, I respect Vitalik very much. But until the role of Goldman Sachs hasn't been clarified I won't trust this project.

Have you read the terms ?? PEOPLE YOU MUST READ !!
All coins will be locked for one year. You won't be able to sell anything before a year AND you won't be able to sell more 1/3 of your coins per year which mean that you will never be able to sell all your coins.

In the meantime, 1000 new altcoins will be lauched.

[markj113]

had this coin bookmarked and was very interested.

Seems the more info that comes out the less interested I become.

[stompix]

As surprising as it might sound from me, I might invest in Ethereum and get out before the pump phase is over. The basic idea is ingenious, I respect Vitalik very much. But until the role of Goldman Sachs hasn't been clarified I won't trust this project.

Have you read the terms ?? PEOPLE YOU MUST READ !!
All coins will be locked for one year. You won't be able to sell anything before a year AND you won't be able to sell more 1/3 of your coins per year which mean that you will never be able to sell all your coins.

In the meantime, 1000 new altcoins will be lauched.

It will be a 50 years pump , don't worry

[SyRenity]

You have been repeatedly told that 30,000 BTC does not translate to 36 million dollars on current BTC prices but you ignore them and stick to your version. You just want to scare people away. You have repeatedly been told that 30,000 represents a hard cap and it remains to be seen how much our community actually invests but again you only acknowledge what is convenient for you. For the record what is the largest IPO in BTC terms that has been raised for alt-coins. I know XCP has PoB'ed 1600+ BTC. Anything higher than that? ETH might not attract an investment in 5 digits so I really do not understand the fuss.

Just to be correct here, these moneys have not actually went to any specific party but rather were exchanged for another one - so I'm not sure how SEC/etc. rules apply here.

[KoinMaster]

As surprising as it might sound from me, I might invest in Ethereum and get out before the pump phase is over. The basic idea is ingenious, I respect Vitalik very much. But until the role of Goldman Sachs hasn't been clarified I won't trust this project.

Have you read the terms ?? PEOPLE YOU MUST READ !!
All coins will be locked for one year. You won't be able to sell anything before a year AND you won't be able to sell more 1/3 of your coins per year which mean that you will never be able to sell all your coins.

In the meantime, 1000 new altcoins will be lauched.

Yeah, you're right. The level of my enthusiasm has fallen like a stone since yesterday.... In addition to what you wrote about the sell restrictions there is also 40% (!!!) yearly inflation constraint (The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year.). So the value of your investment depreciates 40% a year??!! What in the world were they thinking??? Do they really think we are that stupid?

As for the Goldman Sachs involvement: One of the founders acknowledges that at 8:08-8:12 on the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FDvzj8YX4 . I challenge anybody who states he was saying "worked" in past tense to turn on the captions (cc button under the video in Youtube)  see he says "work" in present tense....

[gutshot5820]

You have been repeatedly told that 30,000 BTC does not translate to 36 million dollars on current BTC prices but you ignore them and stick to your version. You just want to scare people away. You have repeatedly been told that 30,000 represents a hard cap and it remains to be seen how much our community actually invests but again you only acknowledge what is convenient for you. For the record what is the largest IPO in BTC terms that has been raised for alt-coins. I know XCP has PoB'ed 1600+ BTC. Anything higher than that? ETH might not attract an investment in 5 digits so I really do not understand the fuss.

Just to be correct here, these moneys have not actually went to any specific party but rather were exchanged for another one - so I'm not sure how SEC/etc. rules apply here.

There is some vagueness of law when it pertains to coins, but currently entities are hiding under the umbrella of that vagueness to skirt the law, The interpretation and how aggressively the SEC and other agencies will pursue investigations will probably be based entirely on intent and purpose.  By blatantly advertising this as an "IPO" with a "Prospectus" that are framing/selling this as an equity transaction have automatically triggered multiple felonies.  I could probably research it myself and provide something more concrete if I wanted to.  Ultimately, you do not get to skirt the law when your "intent" is obvious and that is raising capital through the exchange of coins and converting that capital into usd.  You can claim that and maybe nobody will notice, UNLESS you start asking for 36 million.  Then you will get all eyes on you, including SEC feds, taxman etc..

[miramare]

"The linear inflation rate has been reduced to 0.4*X per year"

Correct me if I'm wrong but x% per year is not linear, but exponential. Only those who can obtain inflationary currencies first (as they are printed) gain from inflation. Everyone else is impoverished. It's no wonder GS are interested in this project. Satoshi knew the dangers of inflation and designed bitcoin so we could escape this slavery. I'll be staying away from this one.

It actually decreasing.

1.5X + 0.4X per year
So:
Year 1: 1,5X
Year 2: 1,9X  (26% increase)
Year 3: 2,3X  (21% increase)

and so on. Until it gets near 0% in the distant future.

Let's say 0% in the "distant" future.
How distant exactly is it ?
We need expect Eth can still survive for so long time.
I was interested in this project as it's with new features, transparent teams, well spread.
I am in hesitation. I think the investors will take all risks (maybe very high) and have no equally high profit expectation.

[swansong]

As surprising as it might sound from me, I might invest in Ethereum and get out before the pump phase is over. The basic idea is ingenious, I respect Vitalik very much. But until the role of Goldman Sachs hasn't been clarified I won't trust this project.

Have you read the terms ?? PEOPLE YOU MUST READ !!
All coins will be locked for one year. You won't be able to sell anything before a year AND you won't be able to sell more 1/3 of your coins per year which mean that you will never be able to sell all your coins.

In the meantime, 1000 new altcoins will be lauched.

Wait what? I will pay for something and not even be able to sell?

[digitalindustry]

Vitalik:

The whole Quark team and community has a lot of respect for you , I also do.

We have a response , i'm asked why the 50% pre-mine and people are asking why not distribute the single blockchain via PoW with our 6 hash algorithm.

people would accept maybe a 1% stake for founders such as yourself .

this way anyone can have a chance to mine your design.

why a 50% premine

Why an IPO ?

why all the complex "Financialization" ?

you are welcome to join the Quark team any time you want, if you want to get on board with a next gen Crypto that meets a Neutral control principal :

1. EQ reward
2. PoW distribution  (imperfect all be it )
3. CPU mining still to this day .
4. fast distribution no control vectors .  

Regards .

[digitalindustry]

As surprising as it might sound from me, I might invest in Ethereum and get out before the pump phase is over. The basic idea is ingenious, I respect Vitalik very much. But until the role of Goldman Sachs hasn't been clarified I won't trust this project.

Have you read the terms ?? PEOPLE YOU MUST READ !!
All coins will be locked for one year. You won't be able to sell anything before a year AND you won't be able to sell more 1/3 of your coins per year which mean that you will never be able to sell all your coins.

In the meantime, 1000 new altcoins will be lauched.

Wait what? I will pay for something and not even be able to sell?

Just like at a real Bank !  lol : D

[lonsharim]

As surprising as it might sound from me, I might invest in Ethereum and get out before the pump phase is over. The basic idea is ingenious, I respect Vitalik very much. But until the role of Goldman Sachs hasn't been clarified I won't trust this project.

Have you read the terms ?? PEOPLE YOU MUST READ !!
All coins will be locked for one year. You won't be able to sell anything before a year AND you won't be able to sell more 1/3 of your coins per year which mean that you will never be able to sell all your coins.

In the meantime, 1000 new altcoins will be lauched.

Wait what? I will pay for something and not even be able to sell?

This applies only to founder's share of ETH and not to investors, a self imposed vesting period to demonstrate developer commitment of the project.

[lonsharim]

i'm asked why the 50% pre-mine and people are asking why not distribute the single blockchain via PoW with our 6 hash algorithm.

They had an interesting explanation in another thread - mining would empower the miners only - by a 2 month IPO an post 0.4x mining and trading allows 3 broadly different types of crypto currency users to participate

1. The investors
2. Miners
3. Developers who can meaningfully contribute to the project and earn their share.

[niner]

Until such time that there is a decentralized exchange, where will investors go to buy and sell ETH after the initial 60 day offering?