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Author Topic: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain  (Read 44062 times)
solosequenosenada
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June 01, 2020, 09:47:15 AM
 #1081

***

I pulled the numbers from the following link, I think they're correct. Why do these numbers differ?

https://idena.today/validation.php?e=46
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lemonandfriesonetwo
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June 01, 2020, 01:34:19 PM
Last edit: June 01, 2020, 05:05:18 PM by lemonandfriesonetwo
 #1082

Those developers of IDENA should fix and make it right.
robelneo
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June 01, 2020, 04:51:14 PM
 #1083

You don't need a new invitation when "suspended", you just need to wait until the next validation and pass it. If you were killed yes, you need a new invitation for sure.  

Yes, I know, but since I am suspended, I can't take the chance of being killed and loose the stake, so I'll just terminate my identity to be safe and start all over.
I was human and was suspended I have not participated in the second validation and I failed the validation again and I was a zombie I believe it takes three failed validation before you are killed if this is your first time that failed the validation you are still good, even if you fail the second one, correct me if I'm wrong.

lemonandfriesonetwo
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June 01, 2020, 05:04:30 PM
 #1084

For those wondering here is the account which gives out all the invitations (denying everyone else a fair share of rewards or potential invitation rewards):

Note: The developers decided to hide the reward page for this account after members have been calling them out for keeping the invitation rewards.

https://scan.idena.io/address/0xcbb98843270812eeCE07BFb82d26b4881a33aA91

It's not fair for them to keep almost 50% of all coins + rewards from invitations they can give out like candy.

The best thing they could do is reward everyone suspended who created flips this last epoch from this account's coins for their lost time.

This would show good faith and fairness on their part.
iHodler
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June 02, 2020, 06:38:13 AM
 #1085

For those wondering here is the account which gives out all the invitations (denying everyone else a fair share of rewards or potential invitation rewards):

Note: The developers decided to hide the reward page for this account after members have been calling them out for keeping the invitation rewards.

https://scan.idena.io/address/0xcbb98843270812eeCE07BFb82d26b4881a33aA91

It's not fair for them to keep almost 50% of all coins + rewards from invitations they can give out like candy.

The best thing they could do is reward everyone suspended who created flips this last epoch from this account's coins for their lost time.

This would show good faith and fairness on their part.

Yeah, this kind of sucks.

They should not have Invites, only members. Is enough they premined 36 Million coins.

This is greed.
Tytanowy Janusz
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June 02, 2020, 07:25:08 AM
 #1086

Yeah, this kind of sucks.

They should not have Invites, only members. Is enough they premined 36 Million coins.

This is greed.

I do agree that this account should not receive invitation rewards or it should be stated in WP what is a purpose of those coins and to who they belong. I think that those funds should, at least, be transferred to zero-wallet.

Now regarding invitations:
Its starting phase of project and lack of invitations was very visible during epochs 35-43 (people were paying for them) - This account invitations was really helpful than. Now it's not and as we can see person responsible for this account is sending less and less invitations. I think that current epoch will need a lot of help from this account to help all killed accounts get back to mining. This account is a security buffer for cases of excessive hype (epoch 35-43) or the current crisis.

Note: The developers decided to hide the reward page for this account after members have been calling them out for keeping the invitation rewards.

You can still track them here (just change 45 in URL to any epoch you would like to check):
https://scan.idena.io/epoch/45/rewards#distribution
iHodler
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June 02, 2020, 07:31:43 AM
 #1087

I was human and was suspended I have not participated in the second validation and I failed the validation again and I was a zombie I believe it takes three failed validation before you are killed if this is your first time that failed the validation you are still good, even if you fail the second one, correct me if I'm wrong.

Acording to this graph https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5194871.msg54538406#msg54538406 you should have been "killed" from Zombie.

Human -> Suspended -> Zombie -> Killed

Lucky you Tongue
LaaMos Seeth
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June 02, 2020, 09:52:09 AM
 #1088

Quote
"The reason for the incident could be that a large part of the network is running nodes on weak hardware (weaker than we expected) or running multiple node instances on a single weak VPS."
Greed and irresponsibility of these developers is limitless.

2205 people failed validation and 1033 killed.

And what did they do?
Nothing.
They accused users of weak hardware.
It’s so much more convenient than paying compensation.
Bastards with huge 34 000 000 preminted coins.

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June 02, 2020, 10:31:16 AM
Merited by Tytanowy Janusz (1)
 #1089

For those wondering here is the account which gives out all the invitations (denying everyone else a fair share of rewards or potential invitation rewards):

Note: The developers decided to hide the reward page for this account after members have been calling them out for keeping the invitation rewards.

https://scan.idena.io/address/0xcbb98843270812eeCE07BFb82d26b4881a33aA91

It's not fair for them to keep almost 50% of all coins + rewards from invitations they can give out like candy.

The best thing they could do is reward everyone suspended who created flips this last epoch from this account's coins for their lost time.

This would show good faith and fairness on their part.

I bet you're just FUDing, trying to buy at 600 sts which you missed few days ago and those days are now gone. Cheesy

This is foundation wallet. Funds received in this wallet through invitations are used for funding community development and donations.

Formula for foundation wallet invites is: MAX(50, MIN(validated_identities/3), 500)).

Basically, it's 1/3rd of validated identities, but capped at 500, while users have invites in the sum of half of the network size.

Foundation wallet invites were made so that initial growth can be sustainable, when there were not enough user invites.

The more the network grows, lower is the percentage of foundation wallet invites in whole network. Once a network grows to 5000 nodes, foundation wallet will have 500 invites while users will have 2500 invites. At 10k nodes, it's still 500 for foundation wallet but 5000 for users.

One more thing to point out, foundation wallet invites get invitation reward only for 1st validation (which is 1x base reward), while users get it for 3 successive validations (1x + 3x + 6x) which is 10x base reward.

Therefore, foundation wallet gets 1/10th of invitation rewards of what users get for theirs, and on top of that, those rewards are not private, they're used for funding community work.

I  D  E  N  A   ►   Proof-of-Person Blockchain
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ https://idena.io/ ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
LaaMos Seeth
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June 02, 2020, 10:34:55 AM
 #1090

Yeah, this kind of sucks.

They should not have Invites, only members. Is enough they premined 36 Million coins.

This is greed.

I do agree that this account should not receive invitation rewards or it should be stated in WP what is a purpose of those coins and to who they belong. I think that those funds should, at least, be transferred to zero-wallet.

Now regarding invitations:
Its starting phase of project and lack of invitations was very visible during epochs 35-43 (people were paying for them) - This account invitations was really helpful than. Now it's not and as we can see person responsible for this account is sending less and less invitations. I think that current epoch will need a lot of help from this account to help all killed accounts get back to mining. This account is a security buffer for cases of excessive hype (epoch 35-43) or the current crisis.

Note: The developers decided to hide the reward page for this account after members have been calling them out for keeping the invitation rewards.

You can still track them here (just change 45 in URL to any epoch you would like to check):
https://scan.idena.io/epoch/45/rewards#distribution



Someone copied your message in Telegram and Dukabit said that you are stupid.
Hysterical brainless... who made him administrator ...
Krucifer
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June 02, 2020, 10:40:55 AM
 #1091

Yeah, this kind of sucks.

They should not have Invites, only members. Is enough they premined 36 Million coins.

This is greed.

I do agree that this account should not receive invitation rewards or it should be stated in WP what is a purpose of those coins and to who they belong. I think that those funds should, at least, be transferred to zero-wallet.

Now regarding invitations:
Its starting phase of project and lack of invitations was very visible during epochs 35-43 (people were paying for them) - This account invitations was really helpful than. Now it's not and as we can see person responsible for this account is sending less and less invitations. I think that current epoch will need a lot of help from this account to help all killed accounts get back to mining. This account is a security buffer for cases of excessive hype (epoch 35-43) or the current crisis.

Note: The developers decided to hide the reward page for this account after members have been calling them out for keeping the invitation rewards.

You can still track them here (just change 45 in URL to any epoch you would like to check):
https://scan.idena.io/epoch/45/rewards#distribution



Someone copied your message in Telegram and Dukabit said that you are stupid.
Hysterical brainless... who made him administrator ...


Haha, actually I copied my message to TG. And Dukabit was not referring to my message but to factless posts before my message.

But good try from you to reverse the truth, anyway. Cheesy

I  D  E  N  A   ►   Proof-of-Person Blockchain
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ https://idena.io/ ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
LaaMos Seeth
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June 02, 2020, 10:46:21 AM
 #1092

From TG
Quote
so what it is donation address? this account should not receive invitation rewards
for this very reason, devs hid them.
like Tytanowy Janusz said https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5194871.msg54546417#msg54546417
after that the hysterical Dukabit began to write that it is very stupid.

So
Quote
But good try from you to reverse the truth, anyway.
this is bullshit.
LaaMos Seeth
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June 02, 2020, 10:48:14 AM
 #1093

Quote
"The reason for the incident could be that a large part of the network is running nodes on weak hardware (weaker than we expected) or running multiple node instances on a single weak VPS."
Greed and irresponsibility of these developers is limitless.

2205 people failed validation and 1033 killed.

And what did they do?
Nothing.
They accused users of weak hardware.
It’s so much more convenient than paying compensation.
Bastards with huge 34 000 000 preminted coins.


This is true - greed begets even greater greed.
LaaMos Seeth
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June 02, 2020, 10:53:28 AM
 #1094

Therefore, foundation wallet gets 1/10th of invitation rewards of what users get for theirs, and on top of that, those rewards are not private, they're used for funding community work.
In a world where there is a premine in 34 000 000 coins, there should not be any additional rewards, whatever they are spent on. There is a premine - use it.
Preminted coins should not receive additional income. In no form.
And it doesn’t matter that you called it "Foundation", it’s still part of the preminted coins!
A premine can have only one clear, fixed number of coins.
Krucifer
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June 02, 2020, 10:56:25 AM
 #1095

Therefore, foundation wallet gets 1/10th of invitation rewards of what users get for theirs, and on top of that, those rewards are not private, they're used for funding community work.
In a world where there is a premine in 34 000 000 coins, there should not be any additional rewards, whatever they are spent on. There is a premine - use it.

In a world where there's a premine of 36 mil. (not 34, to be correct), you can choose to stay away from the project.

But I can only see that you're actually in the project but wanting more from FUD and buying more at lower prices.

Just walk away from this "scam premine" and let us who believe in it be rewarded for staying.

I  D  E  N  A   ►   Proof-of-Person Blockchain
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ https://idena.io/ ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
LaaMos Seeth
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June 02, 2020, 11:01:51 AM
 #1096

Therefore, foundation wallet gets 1/10th of invitation rewards of what users get for theirs, and on top of that, those rewards are not private, they're used for funding community work.
In a world where there is a premine in 34 000 000 coins, there should not be any additional rewards, whatever they are spent on. There is a premine - use it.
Preminted coins should not receive additional income. In no form.
And it doesn’t matter that you called it "Foundation", it’s still part of the preminted coins!
A premine can have only one clear, fixed number of coins.

In a world where there's a premine of 36 mil. (not 34, to be correct), you can choose to stay away from the project.

But I can only see that you're actually in the project but wanting more from FUD and buying more at lower prices.

Just walk away from this "scam premine" and let us who believe in it be rewarded for staying.
You can answer only that.
What else to expect from greed?
When you do not like something, you always expel everyone from your coin and call it spam, FUD, trolling and so on.
Because greedy.
I have not ever seen such impudence when the preminted coins receive additional income in the form of rewards.
Increasing premine ... this is f*cking nonsense ...
realRioda
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June 02, 2020, 11:26:58 AM
Last edit: June 02, 2020, 11:53:00 AM by realRioda
 #1097

They are not considering a rollback: https://medium.com/idena/may-30-2020-idena-validation-incident-report-e1c8ebd56ded

Looks like they are just happy this incident happened:


What a shame..
For start, I and my 10 friends and family members around me that are in Idena were all suspended Cheesy But they did not see this as a catastrophie, because I have told them from the start that this is experimental and problems are to be expected. For testing of this experimental program, you will get rewards, so much reward in one day that people who will come one year from now will not be able to get in one month.
So I bet that those who passed, mining is good for them Smiley Not for me.

So if you take that joke out of context, it might look like that. On discord we have #offtopic channel where we try to have fun in even the most difficult times. And that channel contains some hardcore dark/sarcastic/ironic humor, so if you are not into that, that's ok, but don't go there as it will confuse you.

Also here are some jokes that you have maybe missed (and probably won't be funny to you):
- idena, highlander edition (If you are younger, watch Highlander series of movies)
- hardfork is 30sec into short session
- if we get to zombie, we go to eat devs brain
- I would pay to have my face expresion in picture after validation, when i saw there is no mining toggle button Cheesy At first I was thinking my window is too small and try to resize it
- imagine we did not get suspended but killed by the bug?
- its bummer that i made that pre validation checkup guide and 2k nodes failed, maybe everyone synced time and network kaboom (this refers to my post that i made 2 day before validation, its on the end of this post)

It is clearly stated that this is experimental, that we are still testing, and for that testing we get reward. But as it is experimental, bugs can happen.
So you have to think about, what should now be best for project?
A: try to work on a rollback that will take much time and effort, and maybe produce bigger bugs and set us back more
B: work on a fix/solution so we can move forward and it won't happen again
So instead of moving backwards, we are moving forward and not loosing more time and potential rewards.

I'm here from december and this was my 20th validation, and first problem caused by network. That is not bad at all, in my opinion, for experimental program/tech as Idena is.
This is just my opinion, but I understand others view on this.

As members on discord are trying to be funny (humor is good thing), and not view this as some sort of cathastrophie, we have temporarly changed our nicknames to reflect this situation.


In other news, I have written a post about what to check and consider. But in light of recent things I will have to change VPS guide, suggest VPS providers who support temporary upscaling. I think that temp upscaling from 1GB to 2GB ram would solve our problems.


This is $5 digital ocean vps. Take a look on its cpu load and memory. First image is state of vps when node has been working for 5 days or so. It takes up all ram, goes to swap, cpu goes crazy, and for 1cpu, load of 2.1 is heavy. After restart of node, it clears up ram for some time and load goes down to 1.14 or so...

This and vps guide have to change, I will try and see the best way for this...
Take 5 minutes and read Pre-validation setup check
http://idena.site/faq_tutorials.php#answer12
It will give you advices on what to check, so you can avoid potential problems during validation.
Hopefully it will lead to less validation issues and more validated identities.
Good luck on your validation.

Edit: Biggest bummer is for Newbie members who did not reach verified to be only suspended, they lost (not talking about potential reward but realy lost what they had) about 400 dna or so... and for me that is biggest problem and most difficault thing in this situation.

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June 02, 2020, 12:28:12 PM
Last edit: June 04, 2020, 04:56:07 AM by LaaMos Seeth
 #1098

There is nothing funny in recent events and in general. The greed of the developers is amazing.
1. Absolutely unfair punishment for reported flips.
If someone doesn't know, then for reported flips, you completely lose the reward.
You will not be rewarded for successful validation, for invited users and for flips. Is it fair? No.
A poll was taken. Only the votes of identified users were counted.
Quote
Should Idena:
A. Leave the current system of penalties. One reported flip = loss of all rewards from validation.
B. Use a proportional system of fines for bad flips.  1 bad flip - 1 unpaid reward, 2 bad flips = 2 unpaid rewards, etc. And all rewards are not rejected for bad flips.
1) A.
0x0adc1dc970b0750e253ec97b4a9e3c85c04dedac (https://scan.idena.io/address?address=0x0adc1dc970b0750e253ec97b4a9e3c85c04dedac)
2) B.
0x818c464ea1bbf2d5212a2c8dead3971e5636405b (https://scan.idena.io/address?address=0x818c464ea1bbf2d5212a2c8dead3971e5636405b)
Send small amount of DNA to one of the addresses to vote for associated option.
ONLY VALIDATED IDENTITIES COUNT!
Variant B won - 54.94%.
Where is the reaction of the devs? Nowhere. They are not profitable to give users more coins.
Greed.
2. Because of a bug in the previous validation, due to the fault of the developers, users lost their validation reward, flip reward, invitations reward, mining reward for next 10 days.
Can devs recover these losses? After all, the fault was theirs. Yes, they can, but they accused users of weak hardware. It is unprofitable for them to pay compensation.
Greed.
3. The increasing premine. What the f*ck is this? In what other coin did you see the increasing premine ?! This is f*cking scam. The larger the premine, the lower the value of the coin.
And in this coin, it is constantly increasing!
Greed.
4. When someone suggested increasing the reward for flips so that a person would try to make flips better and be afraid to lose rewards for a bad flip, all sorts of admins and other personalities immediately started laughing at him, calling him stupid and told that no one would give any more coins.
Greed.
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June 02, 2020, 12:52:55 PM
Last edit: June 02, 2020, 01:16:45 PM by LaaMos Seeth
 #1099

And yes, it’s important.

Why do we need an administrator in Telegram chat?
- publish news
- block malicious links
- do not allow political, religious, national abuse
- do not allow personal insults
That's all.

So inform your inadequate hysterical dukabit that this is his terms of reference. And no more.
Chat was not created in order to praise Idena devs and the coin itself.
Any points of view are important and deserve to be.
Freedom of speech.
If someone doesn’t like the coin, let him speak.
If someone doesn't like development work, let him speak.
Admin (dukabit) has no right to threaten someone with a ban, call dumb and put pressure on opinion.
Every time when someone is dissatisfied with something in a coin or devs, it immediately begins - "it is a testnet coin, don't like our coin - leave chat, you're spammer, FUD" and so on.
Go away yourself.
Put your totalitarian in deeper into yourself.
https://i.imgur.com/FEjLUnG.jpg
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June 02, 2020, 01:24:45 PM
 #1100

There is nothing funny in recent events and in general. The greed of the developers is amazing.
1. Absolutely unfair punishment for reported flips.
If someone doesn't know, then for reported flips, you completely lose the reward.
You will not be rewarded for successful validation, for invited users and for flips. Is it fair? No.
A poll was taken. Only the votes of identified users were counted.
Quote
Should Idena:
A. Leave the current system of penalties. One reported flip = loss of all rewards from validation.
B. Use a proportional system of fines for bad flips.  1 bad flip - 1 unpaid reward, 2 bad flips = 2 unpaid rewards, etc. And all rewards are not rejected for bad flips.
1) A.
0x0adc1dc970b0750e253ec97b4a9e3c85c04dedac (https://scan.idena.io/address?address=0x0adc1dc970b0750e253ec97b4a9e3c85c04dedac)
2) B.
0x818c464ea1bbf2d5212a2c8dead3971e5636405b (https://scan.idena.io/address?address=0x818c464ea1bbf2d5212a2c8dead3971e5636405b)
Send small amount of DNA to one of the addresses to vote for associated option.
ONLY VALIDATED IDENTITIES COUNT!
Variant B won - 54.94%.
Where is the reaction of the devs? Nowhere. They are not profitable to give users more coins.
Greed.
2. Because of a bug in the previous validation, due to the fault of the developers, all users lost their validation reward, flip reward, invitations reward, nining reward for next 10 days.
Can devs recover these losses? After all, the fault was theirs. Yes, they can, but they accused users of weak hardware. It is unprofitable for them to pay compensation.
Greed.
3. The increasing premine. What the f*ck is this? In what other coin did you see the increasing premine ?! This is f*cking scam. The larger the premine, the lower the value of the coin.
And in this coin, it is constantly increasing!
Greed.
4. When someone suggested increasing the reward for flips so that a person would try to make flips better and be afraid to lose rewards for a bad flip, all sorts of admins and other personalities immediately started laughing at him, calling him stupid and told that no one would give any more coins.
Greed.

Option B won cause people (you included) are greedy. Simple as that.

But it's easier to say devs are greedy. Grin

I  D  E  N  A   ►   Proof-of-Person Blockchain
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ https://idena.io/ ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
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