Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[suchmoon]

At average of $2k/month for 6months that's $12k per contractor. So just that money from EU and US $1,98B, would get Wagner 165.000 contractors for 6months.

It wouldn't. Wagner has trouble hiring as it is. Earlier in the year they were taking only people with military experience, now it's open to anyone with a pulse basically... including people with criminal records. Even Russians don't want to die for $2k and the ones that do aren't much better than the cannon fodder from Tatarstan or ORDLO.



https://t.me/grey_zone/14946

[LTU_btc]

I heard from radio news this morning that, Russia soldiers are retrieving (running back) from Ukrainian soldiers. As for me, I thought that the war is over because the hit has been drastically reduce to some extent. I don't know why this war is still on. I believe the war will not extend go far again. What I mean is that, the war will not cause world war 3 again because some people were saying that the war would caused world war which would have involved other world powers and minor countries to support themselves. What do you really think that will stop this fight? I am really tired of hearing these two countries fight. I believed Russia is the side that is still prolonging the war. Although, I do not know who is disobeying the rules to stop the war.

War isn't over and probably end of it isn't close probably. Look at this map, there is % of how much territory of each region is occupied:
https://t.me/The3rdForceUA/9964
In recent days Ukraine achieved significant results in Kharkiv direction and pushed front line forwards by few km in Kherson direction. Butthere is still much to do in Kherson direction, Zaporizhia oblast will be tough too, especially considering that Russia have turned nuclear power plant into imiltary base. I'm not even talking about almost fully occupied Luhanks, territories of Donbas occupied since 2014 and whole Crimea. And it's not only about kicking out Russians from there, forcing them to show goodwill sign and retreat. They also will have to clean up these territories from colaborants who worked in favour of occupants.

[paxmao]

If the war ends, Ukraine will join the Nato and earn support payments to rebuild its economy due to the fact, that the EU is depending on ukrainian goods such as wheat and oil.

Isnt NATO representatives already claimed that Ukraine is not ready for joining NATO, as Ukraine does not fully meet European standards yet? I am a bit far from Ukraine joining NATO discussion, but last thing I remembered, was there several months ago there was a meeting of NATO countries and it seems they are not waiting for Ukraine in their union. As to wheat and oil - does Ukraine support Europe that much, that Europe would give billions to rebuild destroyed economy? Europe is not short of wheat deliveries from Ukraine, but so far there is no such huge shortage and wheat crisis in Europe, that will make people crazy.

There is no such thing as standards for a country to join NATO. Ive been to Albania and Macedonia many times, these are great countries, but if we consider the reasons for accepting them into NATO, it has nothing to do with thefact that they suddenly began to meet some standards. This is a purely political decision. If there is a decision your accepted, no decision your not. If such a decision is made, Angola will be in NATO within a month.
When the war ends, Ukraine should offer NATO to join Ukraine. Insisting on some reforms within NATO, for example, throwing the fuck out Hungary would be definitely one of them. Germany doesn't have shit so need to get rid of it too.

>does Ukraine support Europe that much
You don't understand the major point. In fact, Europe owes Ukrainians all the things and without any conditions. Because democratic societies, unlike authoritarian ones, depend on their own rhetoric. If they said "Never again", they should prove it. If they said that democracy and values are important, they should prove it. Otherwise, the line between Putin's rubbish and the proud statements of the West is blurred.

This reminds me of a sentence by Groucho Marx: "I would neve join a club that accepts me as a member". Jokes apart, NATO is an strategic alliance and there is not a formal criteria but there are some things that need to be considered:
- Does the country joining have a decent weapons or army spending or are they counting on NATO defending "for free"?
- Is there an strategic advantage in the location? Will the country accept bases?
- Is there a regime that can be trusted (to a level at least)?

And a very important one: Can NATO, in case of an attack, really commit to protecting said country?

Kremlin is running out of fake news. They're replaying their greatest (i.e. most absurd) hits now.

August 7:

In the Mykolaiv region, Russian troops destroyed an arsenal with 45,000 tons of ammunition supplied to the Ukrainian army by NATO countries, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

September 12:

An ammunition depot with 45,000 tons of ammunition of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was destroyed near the settlement of Voznesensk, Mykolaiv region, the Defense Ministry said.

45 thousand tons, twice LOL. Fucking morons can't even math.

45,000 tons of ammunition that's a pretty solid amount. I think if such a depot really exploded, the blast wave would reach Australia

A small atomic bomb is just 10 tons equivalent, so yes.. as usual, "informing" is cheap, but does not change reality.

[TwitchySeal]

You have the same annoying defect as most 'libs', including most of my friends and family.  That is, reading/hearing something I didn't write/say.  I know it's a handy crutch for people who have no other way forward, but it's not a good look.  But I guess you long ago abandoned any pretense of intellectual rigor, honesty, self respect, etc, so why not, eh?  Fools most of the mouth breathers here on this thread

Common sense is not a defect.

You don't need to hear someone say "I am a Putin fanboy" to know they are a Putin fanboy.

Walks like a duck....etc.

You are obviously a Putin fan boy.

[BADecker]

You have the same annoying defect as most 'libs', including most of my friends and family.  That is, reading/hearing something I didn't write/say.  I know it's a handy crutch for people who have no other way forward, but it's not a good look.  But I guess you long ago abandoned any pretense of intellectual rigor, honesty, self respect, etc, so why not, eh?  Fools most of the mouth breathers here on this thread

Common sense is not a defect.

You don't need to hear someone say "I am a Putin fanboy" to know they are a Putin fanboy.

Walks like a duck....etc.

You are obviously a Putin fan boy.

Putin has Migs. He doesn't need or want fanboys.

[DaRude]

You really need to either man up and show exactly which argument in my replies to af_newbie comment about physically eliminating collaborators is a "straw man" argument, or just quietly stop using long words you don't know the meaning of.

Your concern-trolling about people using rubles and about children is an example of such strawmanning (no one suggested killing children or people using rubles) and I did mention that in my post... perhaps try some reading before going all blue.

Now concern-trolling? Are you just throwing out big words in hopes that at least one of them sticks?

Concern trolling involves someone opposing an idea or viewpoint, yet acting like they’re an advocate for the cause. A concern troll offers undermining criticisms under the guise of concern. Their goal is to sabotage the cause being discussed, and to inspire doubt among group members. This occurs in groups rallied around a particular issue, especially in political parties, and the goal of concern trolling is to cause dissent within a community.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/concern-troll/

Right. so now you're trying to say that I'm acting like I'm advocating to physically eliminate all of the collaborators?   you're desperately scrapped the bottom of the barrel here think it'd be wise to throw in a towel

...
Edit: From my own curiosity

The pay of Wagner private military contractors (PMCs), who are usually aged between 35 and 55, is estimated to be between 80,000 ($1087) and 250,000 ($3397) Russian rubles a month. One source also stated the pay was as high as 300,000 ($4077).

https://special-ops.org/wagner-group-notorious-private-military-company/

At average of $2k/month for 6months that's $12k per contractor. So just that money from EU and US $1,98B, would get Wagner 165.000 contractors for 6months.

I do kind of wonder how fast Wagner, or any other PMC really, could ramp up (and maintain something close to their 'normal' effectiveness.)  I've heard that they get some of their personnel from prison, but I have to believe that the pool of suitable candidates from that demographic would be exhausted pretty quickly.

Another random thing I never got around to mentioning is that a few weeks or a month ago or something, the CEO of Wagner is said to have been nearly killed in an attack that is said to have been the work of the British SAF.  The interesting thing about this is that I doubt that very many of the Wagner people are very nice and forgiving, and that would certainly include the CEO.  Wagner is, as best I can tell, a private for-profit business entity.  It would be quite believable that misfortune which befell Great Brittan, or more generally the interests of the crown, in the form of an attack it could be simply revenge on the part of a privateer and had nothing to do with the Kremlin proper.

So do the Putin fan boys consider the Wagner group the good kind of Nazis?  How do you rationalize invading Ukraine bc "Nazis" while funding Nazis to fight for you.

Similar dissonance as the hate for Hitler while worshipping Stalin.

Your childish name calling are quiet hilarious. I'm not a fan of any PMCs but that Pandora's box was mainly opened with Blackwater, world let it slide, so now it became a new norm, to a point where you have to rely on them if you want to have a chance in any modern military conflict. Like has been covered here many times before, unfortunately Nazi's are everywhere, and it's a problem, question is are they hiding and ostracized, or embraced and are allowed to openly show Nazi insignia and do their Nazi torch parades.

I'm not a fan of Stalin and i don't subscribe to the idea that end justifies the means, but even attempting to equate the suffering of all races/ethnicities for some idea of a greater good (reforms, collectivization etc...) of Stalin (and to a greater degree Mao) to Hitler's idea of master race and systematic genocide and extermination of people based solely on their race, ethnicity, or beliefs is just abhorrent. What you're trying to pull here is called an Association fallacy a cheap propaganda trick that would only work on the dumbest of people, and fully discredits you. Hitler is bad. Stalin is bad. Thus Stalin = Hitler

[af_newbie]

You really need to either man up and show exactly which argument in my replies to af_newbie comment about physically eliminating collaborators is a "straw man" argument, or just quietly stop using long words you don't know the meaning of.

Your concern-trolling about people using rubles and about children is an example of such strawmanning (no one suggested killing children or people using rubles) and I did mention that in my post... perhaps try some reading before going all blue.

Now concern-trolling? Are you just throwing out big words in hopes that at least one of them sticks?

Concern trolling involves someone opposing an idea or viewpoint, yet acting like they’re an advocate for the cause. A concern troll offers undermining criticisms under the guise of concern. Their goal is to sabotage the cause being discussed, and to inspire doubt among group members. This occurs in groups rallied around a particular issue, especially in political parties, and the goal of concern trolling is to cause dissent within a community.

https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/concern-troll/

Right. so now you're trying to say that I'm acting like I'm advocating to physically eliminate all of the collaborators?   you're desperately scrapped the bottom of the barrel here think it'd be wise to throw in a towel

...
Edit: From my own curiosity

The pay of Wagner private military contractors (PMCs), who are usually aged between 35 and 55, is estimated to be between 80,000 ($1087) and 250,000 ($3397) Russian rubles a month. One source also stated the pay was as high as 300,000 ($4077).

https://special-ops.org/wagner-group-notorious-private-military-company/

At average of $2k/month for 6months that's $12k per contractor. So just that money from EU and US $1,98B, would get Wagner 165.000 contractors for 6months.

I do kind of wonder how fast Wagner, or any other PMC really, could ramp up (and maintain something close to their 'normal' effectiveness.)  I've heard that they get some of their personnel from prison, but I have to believe that the pool of suitable candidates from that demographic would be exhausted pretty quickly.

Another random thing I never got around to mentioning is that a few weeks or a month ago or something, the CEO of Wagner is said to have been nearly killed in an attack that is said to have been the work of the British SAF.  The interesting thing about this is that I doubt that very many of the Wagner people are very nice and forgiving, and that would certainly include the CEO.  Wagner is, as best I can tell, a private for-profit business entity.  It would be quite believable that misfortune which befell Great Brittan, or more generally the interests of the crown, in the form of an attack it could be simply revenge on the part of a privateer and had nothing to do with the Kremlin proper.

So do the Putin fan boys consider the Wagner group the good kind of Nazis?  How do you rationalize invading Ukraine bc "Nazis" while funding Nazis to fight for you.

Similar dissonance as the hate for Hitler while worshipping Stalin.

Your childish name calling are quiet hilarious. I'm not a fan of any PMCs but that Pandora's box was mainly opened with Blackwater, world let it slide, so now it became a new norm, to a point where you have to rely on them if you want to have a chance in any modern military conflict. Like has been covered here many times before, unfortunately Nazi's are everywhere, and it's a problem, question is are they hiding and ostracized, or embraced and are allowed to openly show Nazi insignia and do their Nazi torch parades.

I'm not a fan of Stalin and i don't subscribe to the idea that end justifies the means, but even attempting to equate the suffering of all races/ethnicities for some idea of a greater good (reforms, collectivization etc...) of Stalin (and to a greater degree Mao) to Hitler's idea of master race and systematic genocide and extermination of people based solely on their race, ethnicity, or beliefs is just abhorrent. What you're trying to pull here is called an Association fallacy a cheap propaganda trick that would only work on the dumbest of people, and fully discredits you. Hitler is bad. Stalin is bad. Thus Stalin = Hitler

No fallacy. He meant to say that most Russians revere the Soviet Union and its leaders despite the fact that the Soviet leaders were genocidal maniacs, including the current one.

How can you support the prison of nations, the Soviet Union, or its current reincarnation, the 'Russian' Federation is beyond me.

The 'Russian Federation', is not exactly Russian, and it is not a federation. More like a Russian empire where non-Slavic 'Russians'
are second-class citizens, their populations are systematically destroyed and Russified.

Take down Stalin/Soviet monuments across Russia, then we'll talk. Until then, иди нa xyй co cвoeй PФ.

[TwitchySeal]

You have the same annoying defect as most 'libs', including most of my friends and family.  That is, reading/hearing something I didn't write/say.  I know it's a handy crutch for people who have no other way forward, but it's not a good look.  But I guess you long ago abandoned any pretense of intellectual rigor, honesty, self respect, etc, so why not, eh?  Fools most of the mouth breathers here on this thread

Common sense is not a defect.

You don't need to hear someone say "I am a Putin fanboy" to know they are a Putin fanboy.

Walks like a duck....etc.

You are obviously a Putin fan boy.

Putin has Migs. He doesn't need or want fanboys.

Classic Putin fanboy comment ^^^^

[suchmoon]

Right. so now you're trying to say that I'm acting like I'm advocating to physically eliminate all of the collaborators?   you're desperately scrapped the bottom of the barrel here think it'd be wise to throw in a towel

Add red herring / tone complaint / ad hominem to the endless list of fallacies you're exhibiting in this thread. It'd be wise for you to look outside of urban dictionary for definitions of words you don't understand. I take it you have nothing else to substantiate your totally genuine concern absurd attempts to imply that children and people who used rubles are collaborators?

[DaRude]

I heard from radio news this morning that, Russia soldiers are retrieving (running back) from Ukrainian soldiers. As for me, I thought that the war is over because the hit has been drastically reduce to some extent. I don't know why this war is still on. I believe the war will not extend go far again. What I mean is that, the war will not cause world war 3 again because some people were saying that the war would caused world war which would have involved other world powers and minor countries to support themselves. What do you really think that will stop this fight? I am really tired of hearing these two countries fight. I believed Russia is the side that is still prolonging the war. Although, I do not know who is disobeying the rules to stop the war.

This war is far from over.

Ukrainians have to complete the breakout in the Kherson front and collapse the Luhansk front.

Landbridge and Crimea have to be cleaned up to eliminate Russian citizens and their collaborators.

Most will be decided this winter.

Au contraire, i feel like we're closer to WW3 than ever. Personally I didn't expect such scale of UA counteroffensive. We went from UA being unable to even attempt to break the siege of Mariupol in May, to suddenly UA claiming to have taken 6.000 square km in like a week in September. Either you believe in UA super soldiers, superman, Santa Claus and other fairy tales or as a proxy US/EU sent a ridiculous amount of weapons to UA to a point where

“The military stocks of most member states has been, I wouldn’t say exhausted, but depleted in a high proportion, because we have been providing a lot of capacity to the Ukrainians,” Borrell said during a discussion with other EU officials.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/05/russia-ukraine-live-updates.html

And now UA requested 2.000 more missiles for their "16" launchers 155mm shell has a kill radius of around 100m assuming even the same for HIMARS, if my math is right, 100m radius is 31.400m^2 so 2.000 missiles wold have a kill area of 62.800.000m^2 or 62.8km^2 with a kill zone of up to 80km. Meaning just with HIMARS US would let UA wipe out any 63km^2 with GPS precision by a press of a button. Now the "fun" part is what happens next, either RU just packs up and goes home knowing fully that it'll implode and be dismantled, or it escalates, gloves off full mobilization and declaration of war, with a possibility of nuclear strike if anyone decides to continue to intervene. For convenient reason all of the propaganda doesn't mention that this is an existential threat for RU, and such option is even on a table for RU.

As far as timing, UA needs high mobility to maneuver fast, and break the front lines deep into RU territory like that. That advantage would be mostly gone by winter, and it's back to grinding one meter at a time by RU artillery. Also there will be a lot of social unrest (after midterm elections in US) and heating season starts in EU. Devaluation of EUR/GBP, job losses, and inflation would surely take UA off the front pages. So UA needs to deliver before bad weather comes in (and then face full mobilization) or just hope really really hard that Putin folds and just decides to retire, guess it is still technically a possibility in our multiverse.

Also as another unknown, the more the west depletes its military stock the higher the chance of China making a move on Taiwan. Kinda what we're seeing in Armenia and Azerbaijan now

At average of $2k/month for 6months that's $12k per contractor. So just that money from EU and US $1,98B, would get Wagner 165.000 contractors for 6months.

It wouldn't. Wagner has trouble hiring as it is. Earlier in the year they were taking only people with military experience, now it's open to anyone with a pulse basically... including people with criminal records. Even Russians don't want to die for $2k and the ones that do aren't much better than the cannon fodder from Tatarstan or ORDLO.



https://t.me/grey_zone/14946

Mercs work for patriotism but mostly money so double it to $4k/m spend just $4B open up to Kazakhstan, Belarus, Syria, Iran, Armenia etc... and you get 165k contractors for 6months

I mean they're considering paying out $20B just in dividends this year

Russia's state-run gas major Gazprom reported record net profit for the first half of the year on Tuesday, as elevated market prices continue to aid the Kremlin.
The company earned $41.75 billion, or 2.5 trillion rubles, from the start of 2022. That's up from about 968 billion rubles in the first half of 2021.
Gazprom is also considering paying investors a dividend after not doing so last year. Its board recommended paying 51.03 rubles per share, bringing the total payout to 1.208 trillion roubles.
Gazprom's record profits this year come as the West imposed sanctions on Russia for its invasion of Ukraine. While they largely steered clear of directly banning gas sales, Europe has scrambled to look for alternatives to Russian supplies.
Meanwhile, Dutch TTF, the natural gas benchmark in Europe, is up more than 1,000% compared to a year ago as Gazprom has slashed deliveries and raised concerns about winter shortages.

https://www.yahoo.com/video/russias-state-run-gas-major-141727603.html

[Synchronice]

I heard from radio news this morning that, Russia soldiers are retrieving (running back) from Ukrainian soldiers. As for me, I thought that the war is over because the hit has been drastically reduce to some extent. I don't know why this war is still on. I believe the war will not extend go far again. What I mean is that, the war will not cause world war 3 again because some people were saying that the war would caused world war which would have involved other world powers and minor countries to support themselves. What do you really think that will stop this fight? I am really tired of hearing these two countries fight. I believed Russia is the side that is still prolonging the war. Although, I do not know who is disobeying the rules to stop the war.

You are tired of what? Hearing a thing about this war? C'mon Man, people are dying, inflation is rising, gas prices are rising, the world is going in a very wrong direction.

This war won't end up so easily. Russia has an aim that as they say, should be achieved. Some people here are happy that Europe said no to Russian gas, the war costs tons of money for them and soon Russia won't be able to fund the war. But one question arises for me. Russia is a country that has nuclear bombs, if they are going to lose war, money, everything, then what will stop them from using nuclear bombs? If you are losing the game and your enemy is killing you (and you have a bomb on hand), what will stop you from exploding yourself and taking your enemy into hell with you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xUvu56DfRk

Watch this video between 00:00 - 00:30 seconds.

[TwitchySeal]

We went from UA being unable to even attempt to break the siege of Mariupol in May

Unable to even attempt?  Mariupol was besieged completely in early March.  What do you think they were doing for the rest of March and April and why do you think the city was leveled when Ukraine finally surrendered?  

Or is "unable to even attempt to break the siege" your funny way of saying surrender after months of fighting.

[Lucius]

Congratulations to the Ukrainian soldiers and the brave Ukrainian people who once again showed their courage and determination to liberate every occupied part of their country. I'm not sure if there is an official name for this operation, but I would call it Operation Northern Storm, without any doubt, because it reminds me a lot of a storm that once happened in my country not so long ago.

[suchmoon]

Mercs work for patriotism but mostly money so double it to $4k/m spend just $4B open up to Kazakhstan, Belarus, Syria, Iran, Armenia etc... and you get 165k contractors for 6months

Again, they've been trying really hard for months now. In a country of 140 million. Paying $3-4k per month already (170k-200k rubles plus signing bonuses) for regular contractors, not just wagnerists. Failing miserably. Genius plan to "open up to" some other shitholes that have their own problems to deal with will not make hundreds of thousands of trained (or any) soldiers magically appear.

IIRC the Russian MOD recently claimed that Ukrainian forces outnumber Russian forces eightfold. Bullshit of course but puts your absurd claims into perspective. If they could hire 165k they wouldn't be whining, would they.

I mean they're considering paying out $20B just in dividends this year

Right, the oligarchs will pay for the war LOL

I thought the Ukrainian counter-offensive would help kremlinists to return back to reality but it seems to have done the opposite. Too far gone I guess.

[DaRude]

Right. so now you're trying to say that I'm acting like I'm advocating to physically eliminate all of the collaborators?   you're desperately scrapped the bottom of the barrel here think it'd be wise to throw in a towel

Add red herring / tone complaint / ad hominem to the endless list of fallacies you're exhibiting in this thread. It'd be wise for you to look outside of urban dictionary for definitions of words you don't understand. I take it you have nothing else to substantiate your totally genuine concern absurd attempts to imply that children and people who used rubles are collaborators?

Now you're trying to claim that i'm disingenuous in my concerns with af_newbie's calls to mass murder after UA abolished capital punishment? And then you're switching claims and now generalizing that i'm exhibiting fallacies in this whole thread? Keep making up claims, surely eventually one of them must hit its target. Infinite monkeys eventually could write Shakespeare too.

Population of LPR and DPR is around 4mil, Kherson is 1mil, Zaporizhzhia 1,5mil, Crimea is at 2.5mil for a total of around 9mil, when someone calls for mass murders with obscure criteria, why are you not even interested in clearing up how many people exactly they calling to physically eliminate? Is this not a concern to you?

If definition of collaboration is so obvious to you where you feel the need to interject when someone tries to clear it up and asks follow up questions, mind explaining it to the Kyiv-based regional center for Human Rights?

Ukraine’s Plan to Prosecute Collaborators
New legislation remains open to interpretation by law enforcement agencies and judges.
...
Article 111-1 criminalises actions of setting the temporary occupation of a part of the territory of Ukraine, transferring material resources to unlawful armed or paramilitary groups of aggressor-state or which were created on the temporarily occupied territory of Ukraine.

Article 111-2 criminalises acts that execute or support decisions and actions of the aggressor-state, its occupation administration or armed groups, transfer of resources or assets to representatives of the aggressor-state.
...
However, only direct physical coercion - which renders a person unable to be in control of their actions with imminent danger - excludes the criminality of an act.
...
In Article 111-1 there are some differences regarding the voluntary nature as it indicates that some acts suppose that a person must act voluntarily, but others do not have the word “voluntarily” at all.
 
It is a tricky question, because we do not know how law enforcement agencies and judges will interpret it.

https://iwpr.net/global-voices/ukraines-plan-prosecute-collaborators

Now mind actually contributing to this conversation and giving us your estimate on how many people you feel fall under your definition of "Collaborator"? And if you agree with af_newbie's notion that they all need to be physically eliminated?

We went from UA being unable to even attempt to break the siege of Mariupol in May

Unable to even attempt?  Mariupol was besieged completely in early March.  What do you think they were doing for the rest of March and April and why do you think the city was leveled when Ukraine finally surrendered?  

Or is "unable to even attempt to break the siege" your funny way of saying surrender after months of fighting.

I thought it was pretty clear, no? Meant just what i said, no double meanings here. As far as I'm aware, there were no attempts from UA at breaking out its units from the besieged Mariupol. All of the civilians weren't let out and units within the city were left to fight on their own until their eventual "evacuation"...to a Russian prison.

No way to break Russian siege of Mariupol and Azovstal to rescue Ukrainian troops, says deputy defense minister
...
Malyar said that if such a counter-offensive operation to break through the Russian siege of Mariupol were possible, it would already have happened, public broadcasting company Suspilne reported.

https://news.yahoo.com/no-way-break-russian-siege-134100267.html

[Marykeller]

Congratulations to the Ukrainian soldiers and the brave Ukrainian people who once again showed their courage and determination to liberate every occupied part of their country. I'm not sure if there is an official name for this operation, but I would call it Operation Northern Storm, without any doubt, because it reminds me a lot of a storm that once happened in my country not so long ago.

All this shows how strong Russia is. Fighting a country in her territory with all support of NATO and yet only celebrate something that is not sure.
Telling the world that over 6000 km was retaken back shows that Ukraine is battling to survive.
Russia doesn't want to go into Khiev but she is using style to force them out thinking that they have to recapture Kharkiv before she gives them what they deserve.

[johhnyUA]

All this shows how strong Russia is. Fighting a country in her territory with all support of NATO and yet only celebrate something that is not sure.

"All support of NATO" lol. It's not even started yet, dude.
Even 16 (!) Himars have broken russian supply lines. How things will go when we will have 30 or more himars? 

Or when f-16 will appear on the battlefield. Or something similar.

[Branko]

All this shows how strong Russia is. Fighting a country in her territory with all support of NATO and yet only celebrate something that is not sure.

"All support of NATO" lol. It's not even started yet, dude.
Even 16 (!) Himars have broken russian supply lines. How things will go when we will have 30 or more himars? 

Or when f-16 will appear on the battlefield. Or something similar.

Actually its stopping...USA now need YEARS to restock systems they sent to Ukraine.
Obviously they didn't expect Russia to be so effective in destroying them

https://www.ft.com/content/d413576c-c4d5-4ca6-9050-58f3f8dc3c00

[BADecker]

^^^ ... and Ukraine so good at selling them on the black market.

[suchmoon]

Population of LPR and DPR is around 4mil, Kherson is 1mil, Zaporizhzhia 1,5mil, Crimea is at 2.5mil for a total of around 9mil, when someone calls for mass murders with obscure criteria, why are you not even interested in clearing up how many people exactly they calling to physically eliminate? Is this not a concern to you?

If definition of collaboration is so obvious to you where you feel the need to interject when someone tries to clear it up and asks follow up questions, mind explaining it to the Kyiv-based regional center for Human Rights?

I'm concerned about many bad things happening to the millions of people, but collaboration being a voluntary action puts it near the bottom of the list. However no matter how you prioritize your concerns regarding this war, there is one thing and one thing only that's causing all this trouble and it needs to end in order for all these issues to be resolved. It's the Russian invasion.

That's why your concern is not genuine. You just keep looking for new ways - including made-up / straw man / otherwise fallacious "arguments" - to blame Ukrainians for defending their country. Putin is killing Dobas residents by the thousands, you're "concerned" about someone's definition of collaborator. If you were otherwise calling for an immediate end of the occupation AND were concerned about the fate of collaborators then perhaps I could give you the benefit of the doubt. But as it stands now, it's just deflection/trolling/etc. Using well-known Kremlin propaganda tropes is a dead giveaway.