[ANN][VRC] VeriCoin Proof of Stake-Time Currency | New Roadmap Released

[InvestorPerson]

The way the free market works is that failed businesses go out of business...not get bail outs or roll backs. That is why.

chargebacks. let's stick to the right terminology  

[bitrap]

Devs, are you going to pre-announce when the new wallet will be released?

[smoothie]

Guys it is suicide to roll back because of Mintpal.  Mintpal should be made to pay for the losses.  No exchange should have the ability to force a hardfork in a coin because of their failure.  This will ruin the credibility of Vericoin purely to save Mintpal.  Mintpal is a vicious cancer to the community and this just proves it.

+1 here. Time will tell but I agree with this.

[ofp]

Cryptocurrency is created to be not regulated by authorities, such as countries. What happened to Vericoin today goes against this objective, because it is controlled by an exchange site. Suppose someday a country authority send request to the Vericoin development team about some Vericoin is held by some bad guys and the authority request a hard fork to remove those Vericoins, or send those coins to the country authority, based on what happened, I doubt the team will say no.

Question is not whether devs do it or not.
Question is CAN THEY DO IT?
And the answer is obviously YES, for every single cryptocurrency, IF they get backed by the majority of their miners.
So, all the crypto community will have to deal with this reality.
You should all help to get the right spin in terms of PR.

Always, they can do it, as long as they make ppl support their new fork.
The question is, DO THEY DO IT OR NOT? DO THEY GIVE IN TO THE AUTHORITY OR THEY OBEY THEIR INITIAL AIM FOR A CRYPTOCURRENCY: NOT REGULATED BY AUTHORITIES.
(don't want to use caps, but obviously you don't get my insight)

If they are regulated by authorities, what is the difference between it and centralized banks?

p.s. til now, my questions are not answered.

Not a single developer will accept to face jail for not attending a legal order. Just face the truth.
The whole world now knows for sure that it is technically possible for EVERY SINGLE CRYPTOCURRENCY, including BTC.
So, crypto will be better served by getting the right PR spin on this story. Simple as that.

[buy4crypto]

MintPal fucked up... it's not the VRC community's responsibility to fix this.  MintPal needs to cover the lost coins out of their own pocket - PERIOD.

If the VRC devs try to push a roll back, this coin is worse then dead in the water.  Obviously, if a rollback like this is possible, the blockchain cannot be relied upon as a fixed ledger, and therefore the coin is useless.

I'm willing to bet some of you are the same person, so I'll pose this question to more than one of you since I doubt none of you will give an appropriate answer:

So you think a guaranteed ongoing 51% attack or an insta-dump is a better alternative?

Please explain why.

The way the free market works is that failed businesses go out of business...not get bail outs or roll backs. That is why.

We get it, its not for you, move on. Is this the new precedent? We picked up every hardcore NERD thats mad vericoin used the technology to prevent theft, and no other coin took the responsibility to break the mold? GREAT!

[smoothie]

I think some information is missing in the discussion:
1) As stated by MP, VARIOUS exchanges have halted trading with VRC. The robbed coins can't be traded at this time
2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move
3) The problem was related to the withdrawal door at MP and there was a single transaction moving the 8M coins. This means that the coins were transferred to a single wallet and can be perfectly and easily followed up
4) The hardfork that will be created by devs will most likely isolate that single transaction and all the transaction subtree that followed. But it will probably leave intact all other transactions, whether they happened before of after the theft
5) The exchanges will reimburse people who lost money transacting with the thieves (if there was any transaction at all)
6) As a result, the whole community will be secured and the single transaction that will suffer is the one where the coins are stolen
I believe VRC is going stronger after this.

So what happens in the future when say another person gets hacked big time for a ton of VRC or another exchange hack comes around?

Double standard I presume will be in effect from the VRC devs.

I disagree. VRC will take a huge hit in terms of trust.

[chunkyjunkie]

The fork is complete. I would like to say that we did what we thought is right. We saved the $5M+ invested in VeriCoin by folks like you from becoming worth nothing when the hacker either dumped all of his coin or 51% attacked it.

With that said, we will not be doing this again. It is imperative that you keep your coins off exchanges and safe. We did not do this to "bail out" MintPal but to prevent the coin from being destroyed in an instant.

We have created a bootstrap file which everyone must use until the network is stable. It is located at http://vericoin.info/downloads/bootstrap.dat. We also have changed the p2port from 58684 to 58685. Please adjust your settings as necessary.

We are compiling new windows/mac wallets and will post them when they are complete. The exchanges have the updated code (which is also available on our Github: http://github.com/vericoin/master) and are patching their own stuff and going to be fixing their databases.

Let's hope the rest of the process goes smoothly. Thanks for being patient. I hope we never encounter anything like this again. Please, stake your coins locally on your own wallet so we don't risk having 30% of the coin stolen in a single hack.

This is BULLSHIT.

Now future scams and hacks involving VRC don't get the same treatment? Double standard much? Hypocrite?

Now your trust has gone out the window.

Another crypto stalker infatuated with vrc that thinks it has nothing going for it.  Move on.. your constant posting clearly shows how desperate you are to buy cheap, although of course you will deny it. Your actions betray your motives.  Again vrc dead?  Vrc didn't make the right decisions?  Move on, nobody will miss your rant.

[Alphi]

% is not an argument. The fact that a business fucked up in their security of their customers' VRC is not the devs problem. But obviously the devs want to make it their problem.

VRC hacks and scams will come with expectations now in the future. "Hey someone hacked my personal VRC wallet...can you VRC devs roll back and hard fork the blockchain so I can get my coins back?"

Utter BS.

the hack wasn't the devs problem but the fact that thieves controlled 30% of the coin supply became the devs problem.

what if the thieves do not dump but simply stake their coins.
nobody would invest in a currency that is 30% controlled by thieves knowing that potentially 30% of all new coins for eternity could be going back to the thieves pockets.

I believe this is the dilemma faced by the dev team and why they took action.
they didn't do it to save Mintpal they did it to save vericoin.

stolen money that can generate clean money which can then be spent easily without raising an eyebrow.. this is the very definition of money laundering.

rolling back the block chain is fundamentally wrong but it is the lesser of two evils for this particular situation.

[InvestorPerson]

We get it, its not for you, move on. Is this the new precedent? We picked up every hardcore NERD thats mad vericoin used the technology to prevent theft, and no other coin took the responsibility to break the mold? GREAT!

you didn't prevent it. you just caused a chargeback. and you won't be able to prevent it in the future

now it has been stated that this chargeback won't ever happen again. let's see what happens when the next theft rolls over you. it can happen, or do you wanna tell me there's 100% security

[Abitcoinfuture]

I will just say it, anyone who thinks @mintpal should cover 3039 btc and let some group of elitist have 8 million VRC to dump and crash the coin is an idiot this is the best alt coin ever made and the only potential 2nd to this alt is vertcoin, gj vrc dev I am proud you kept the value of my VRC alive.  



--Minaphure, Respect.

[smoothie]

Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............

Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.

What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".

[buy4crypto]

Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............

Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.

What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".

I don't think this guy can stop, hes gone mad.

[buy4crypto]

Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............

Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.

What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".

Mining occurs in 1 pool as this is POS, if you looked at this coin for more than 5 mins before you decided to attack it you would know this. Its not a POW coin buddy

[smoothie]

2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move

That's a bullshit definition of a community decision.  It was decided by Mintpal and dictated to the VRC development team.  The other exchanges had little choice but to follow.  The community had zero choice.

  This is a case of destroying Vericoin to save Mintpal and nothing less.  

Well said. Miners who aren't aware of the hack will be mining on the wrong chain. Whoops ....what do the devs tell them when they come to complain?

[Shill]

2) It is therefore a community decision to halt trading until devs come up with a solution. It's not a single and isolated devs move

That's a bullshit definition of a community decision.  It was decided by Mintpal and dictated to the VRC development team.  The other exchanges had little choice but to follow.  The community had zero choice.

  This is a case of destroying Vericoin to save Mintpal and nothing less.  

Well said. Miners who aren't aware of the hack will be mining on the wrong chain. Whoops ....what do the devs tell them when they come to complain?

Um, you don't mine this coin. lol

[Abitcoinfuture]

It's not about bailing out mintpal you thick fucks, it's about protecting VRC from an 8 million coin dump... and you want to talk about mining?  It's multipool only, they have it under control, do some fucking research.  I here by declare to accept all FUD on behalf of VRC and reply to anybody with a big FUCK YOU!

[defier]

And the BTC fork for that 184 million exploited coins was for development?  Yes I know you previously try to explain how that wasn't the same.  Facts are, someone illicitly grabbed a bunch of coins, and the community reacted to negate it.  No two scenarios are the same and must be resolved differently.  

Nobody grabbed illicit coins... someone exploited a flaw to generate more coins then they should while mining a block.  It was a protocol level flaw in bitcoin that was fixed.  Yes, that was a development mistake, and a hardfork was necessary (the fix made the new blockchain incompatible with the old blockchain, and that 184million coin block was orphaned as a result).  The VRC action is totally different.  VRC IS NOT SUGGESTING A HARDFORK - the devs aren't fixing anything.  They are acting for benefit of an exchange and third party to the protocol.

Rolling-back a blockchain is unbelievably contrary to a decentralized ledger.  That, is the key.

A bookkeeper who "fudges" the books, has no place being trusted to keep the public ledger. Pressure is moot.

exploited, hacked, stole, pickpocketed.  Spin it how you like, someone came into possession of a bunch of widgets that weren't theirs.   Then the community reacted to protect itself from the criminals.

Crypto being in its infancy, decentralization is currently only a dream.  Many more people are needed to spread out from the "center".  We have not developed enough, for the purist sense of decentralization.

If you think about it, this is an awesome capability.  To be able to nullify a crime of this magnitude, saving people millions.  The mtgox, that wasn't.

To those screaming "they could just roll back my transaction if they don't like me" wow really?  To bring the whole thing to a complete stop like this would only be to protect the coin and community.  Its not like the dev just pops in reloads the file and is on his way with just your coins.  Many "decentralized" people have to agree to cooperate to accomplish something on this scale.  So unless you snaked enough coins or hashes to 51% a coin, you probably have no worries.

How about the idea of a multistage "Emergency Stop" button.  Like the emergency shut down on the Stock Exchanges?  Starting from Pools or Exchanges when something suspicious occurs.  Quarantines local activity and sends alarms to the devs, other Exchanges, and Pools.  
just a thought.

Beyond the stupidity of keeping the 8 mil in the hot wallet.  Kudos to MintPal stepping up immediately and facing this.  

The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing.

[chunkyjunkie]

Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............

Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.

What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".

You post as if you are directly affected by those8 million stolen coins being returned to the rightful owners.  

You have nothing to stand on.  VRC made a decision you don't like?  Great move on.  Like any good stalker you can't you are infatuated with what you perceive as something you must posses.

Am I wrong?  Again, VRC is garbage and has nothing going for it?  Move on nobody wants you here and you don;t want to be here. Everyone who just had their funds saved and a dev that stuck around instead of just disappearing and making another coin will fill your spot.

[smoothie]

Guys it is suicide to roll back because of Mintpal.  Mintpal should be made to pay for the losses.  No exchange should have the ability to force a hardfork in a coin because of their failure.  This will ruin the credibility of Vericoin purely to save Mintpal.  Mintpal is a vicious cancer to the community and this just proves it.

This.

If this rollback is done to cover MintPal's fuck up, the devs lose all credibility and are simply paid code monkeys for the exchanges.

Is that really what the community wants from a coin that had so much potential?

This is make or break time. The decisions made now will either cement VRC as a solid force in crypto or doom it to a slow and painful death.

Couldn't agree with you more. This decision has so many implications for miners, exchanges, both past and present. Miners on the wrong chain or users who recieved VRC in the time frame from the hack will lose their coins due to the "roll back" or what I call the "bail out" from the VRC devs.

[ofp]

Devs dont have the final say it takes 51% ............

Anyone who chooses not to update their client will get an instant "FUCK YOU" from Mintpal as they will be running a different version of the client and will be on a different chain.

What happens to people who are mining on the wrong chain? Right see there you go...it isn't a simple fix as "ROLL BACK and bail out mint pal".

I don't think this guy can stop, hes gone mad.

Yep, looks like he has so much to loose, does it not?