Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[notme]

...  The timestamp could be from the .gov site or any site that crawled it.

And, as I explained, it would be worthless.  I don't understand your obsession with it.

And I still have seen no proof for what you are saying.

What exactly are you disagreeing with?  I only made two claims:

1. There are dozens of people (Fed employees, board members) who knew the decision before it was public.

or

2.  Most of those people are very well connected with Wall Street and government officials.

I was disagreeing with this assumption

> When the Fed announces a 2pm release, they don't publicly release early.

I think its entirely possible that the minutes were available on a public facing server before 2PM EST.  If I was able to find half a dozen independent sources that had crawled this public facing page at 1:56 then the reasonable assumption to make would be that the minutes were released early, not that the half a dozen independent servers had their system times manipulated.

Well why didn't you say so?  

Although, if I put on my tinfoil hat, you would only need to manipulate the atomic clock driven timeservers in Colorado to compromise most of NTP.  However, taking the hat off, I doubt such manipulation would go unnoticed.

[Pumpkin]

I don't know, Gold has been around for a long time.

I don't know if there is any correlations between Gold price and Bitcoins prices.

Precisely the reason why young people are reluctant to buy gold. It has been there forever. A young person with measly $10000 has no chance to make a huge profit in gold.

[FNG]

I don't know, Gold has been around for a long time.

I don't know if there is any correlations between Gold price and Bitcoins prices.

Precisely the reason why young people are reluctant to buy gold. It has been there forever. A young person with measly $10000 has no chance to make a huge profit in gold.

I disagree. Read some FOFOA. here's a good post from years ago  http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/03/all-paper-is-still-short-position-on.html

[sidhujag]

Line 1: Venezuela asks London for its gold back (repatriation of 99 tons).
Line 2: Germany asks New York and Paris for its gold back (repatriation of 674 tons).

Normal trading activity would generally cause prices to rise following these events as leased gold would be called back for delivery, but these countries are told to sit on their thumbs for years instead.

Then there is this:



Which looks like a steep drop in physical inventory, yes?

But wait...Lets step back a bit for some perspective...



So it is not just a drop, it is a precipitous drop, unprecedented (it only rose until Germany's demand, then only fell).

But... lets step back just a bit more and add the ETFs into the picture.  The ETFs are the general price setting metric as they are more liquid.  But they are really just paper, and unless you are a bullion bank, it might as well be just fiat, and well, a picture speaks volumes.



There you have the price falling, but massive redemption of the paper for the physical.  Intuitively redemption SHOULD cause the price to rise as the underlying asset becomes bought and also depleted through redemption.  It is becoming increasingly scarce.  So unless something weird is happening...

Consider that maybe the price is being driven down so that the redemption can be more affordable?  The central banks have it within their charter to manipulate currencies.  Gold (and bitcoin) fall into that category.  They can legally manipulate the price and not suffer the teeth of the CFTC.
I'm no conspiracy buff, but this seems consistent with the evidence at hand.

So tell me... am I crazy to be redeeming bitcoin for physical gold and silver?  Is it crazy to sell the oldest form of money for the digital/virtual/ephemeral at a time when the world is scrambling for the physical?  Maybe I am, but I am having fun doing it, and I like inflation-proof asset diversity.  More than anything, the opportunity to craft the best of its kind Bitcoin Specie has me giddy.  It is the most significant contribution I can make to the community at this time as a designer of numismatic physical money, to back the worlds best virtual currency with the worlds most durable asset.  Others may also do this, so the challenge of setting a higher standard, is exhilarating.

The production minting is starting TODAY (yay, at last), first with the Quarter Bitcoin one troy ounce silver, and soon also in gold, and I am very excited.  My team and I have been working on this for quite a while, and we are pretty happy with the result and hopeful that others will be also.  Sorry if this feels like advertising to you, it is personally exciting and so hard for me to avoid talking about it... but I will stop now.

I know soon you can buy silver via devcoin aswell.. a store is in progress.

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh

[molecular]

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh

You can earn bitcoin by doing work for someone who needs something done. You can also buy silver with bitcoin so you can essentially earn silver by working.

[wachtwoord]

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh

You can earn bitcoin by doing work for someone who needs something done. You can also buy silver with bitcoin so you can essentially earn silver by working.

So you earn value by working?  No kidding, who knew? 

[sidhujag]

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh

You can earn bitcoin by doing work for someone who needs something done. You can also buy silver with bitcoin so you can essentially earn silver by working.

So you earn value by working?  No kidding, who knew? 

Only formal way to get bitcoin without exchanging fiat. Just sayin!

[molecular]

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh

You can earn bitcoin by doing work for someone who needs something done. You can also buy silver with bitcoin so you can essentially earn silver by working.

So you earn value by working?  No kidding, who knew? 

Only formal way to get bitcoin without exchanging fiat. Just sayin!

You can also sell some good.

[sidhujag]

You can also earn devcoins by writing on devtome so essentially earn silver via writing.. pretty cool huh

You can earn bitcoin by doing work for someone who needs something done. You can also buy silver with bitcoin so you can essentially earn silver by working.

So you earn value by working?  No kidding, who knew? 

Only formal way to get bitcoin without exchanging fiat. Just sayin!

You can also sell some good.

True but if u have nothing to sell just wanna write to earn u can do it or write some code.. Why not do both until you item sells you can develop and earn.  Im not trolling cause you would be selling devcoin anyway.

[sidhujag]

didnt they just prove that it was leaked when they saw big trades right when the news was released? Takes 200 msec to get to chicago from ny for news but thousands of trades were already done before news after the clock ticked when news released. The computers were programmed to make trades and to make u think that it was based on the release when it wasnt

[NewLiberty]

didnt they just prove that it was leaked when they saw big trades right when the news was released? Takes 200 msec to get to chicago from ny for news but thousands of trades were already done before news after the clock ticked when news released. The computers were programmed to make trades and to make u think that it was based on the release when it wasnt

The big trades themselves do not prove "what the trader knew, and when they knew it".

That would need to be in evidence for a criminal charge.  The SEC may investigate, but unless they find evidence of a nexus of communication, it won't lead to more than that.  Otherwise every successful trade is a crime.

If the trades were plausibly based on public information, and the traders assert this effectively, the SEC may not be able to prosecute.  There are fed-watchers famously looking for tell-tale signs (like the look on BB's face when he walked in front of cameras into the building, or some other minor evidence or even a "hunch") things like this could show it to be in the clear.  The trade is not the crime, the trade on non-public information is a crime, as would be the malfeasance of delivering non-public information to a trader.

[sidhujag]

didnt they just prove that it was leaked when they saw big trades right when the news was released? Takes 200 msec to get to chicago from ny for news but thousands of trades were already done before news after the clock ticked when news released. The computers were programmed to make trades and to make u think that it was based on the release when it wasnt

The big trades themselves do not prove "what the trader knew, and when they knew it".

That would need to be in evidence for a criminal charge.  The SEC may investigate, but unless they find evidence of a nexus of communication, it won't lead to more than that.  Otherwise every successful trade is a crime.

If the trades were plausibly based on public information, and the traders assert this effectively, the SEC may not be able to prosecute.  There are fed-watchers famously looking for tell-tale signs (like the look on BB's face when he walked in front of cameras into the building, or some other minor evidence or even a "hunch") things like this could show it to be in the clear.  The trade is not the crime, the trade on non-public information is a crime, as would be the malfeasance of delivering non-public information to a trader.

Happened before:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-11/banks-on-fed-staffer-e-mail-list-get-accidental-leak-of-minutes.html

Evidence was "overwhelming". People do not make BILLION dollar decisions based on a hunch on how someone looks prior to speaking... that's not how smart money has ever worked. Whoever placed the market moving trades knew and in court would be charged unless they buy everyone out to keep them quiet or through other forceful means.

Nanex provided quantitative information on how it proves that someone must have known prior to release.

source: http://qz.com/126823/wednesdays-federal-reserve-announcement-was-leaked-says-a-financial-market-analyst/

[cypherdoc]

furthermore:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-24/tip-box-fed-made-it-possible-many-people-leak-it

[NewLiberty]

Now this is different, and its news, thanks to some anon whistle-blowing?  We may be starting to get evidence of what people knew and when, even if as yet uncorroborated.  
That + trading by any of those entities is SEC bait, and they did trade.  It would also be malfeasance on the part of the Fed. 

Next, we get to discover if the SEC have gained competence since Madoff.

[NewLiberty]

Now this is different, and its news, thanks to some anon whistle-blowing?  We may be starting to get evidence of what people knew and when, even if as yet uncorroborated.  
That + trading by any of those entities is SEC bait, and they did trade.  It would also be malfeasance on the part of the Fed. 

Next, we get to discover if the SEC have gained competence since Madoff.

They seem to have shut down one of the BTC stock exchanges. Priorities?

LOL, good point.  They may be too busy researching the manipulation of the Auction Market in World of Warcraft, now that virtual currency is money, to get around to looking into the largest banks in the world scooping money off the table.

[SkRRJyTC]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-24/tip-box-fed-made-it-possible-many-people-leak-it

You mean it was public information before 2PM?  Color me shocked.

[lebing]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-24/tip-box-fed-made-it-possible-many-people-leak-it

You mean it was public information before 2PM?  Color me shocked.

seriously. i have high hopes for the results of this investigation. 

[ronimacarroni]

I've heard gold is down because more of it has been mined after the price spike.

[cypherdoc]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-24/tip-box-fed-made-it-possible-many-people-leak-it

You mean it was public information before 2PM?  Color me shocked.

 

[NewLiberty]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-09-24/tip-box-fed-made-it-possible-many-people-leak-it

You mean it was public information before 2PM?  Color me shocked.

seriously. i have high hopes for the results of this investigation.  

If it were "public" it wouldn't be a problem for the trader.  It is a problem for the trader if it is non-public information upon which a trade is made.
Finding a public release of the information would get the traders off the hook, but could still point to malfeasance from the Fed folks that leaked it publicly.