[XMR] Monero Speculation

[MalMen]

i think the current (non existing) moves in price reflect the lack of infrastructure at least to some degree. Polo is the only liquid exchange. Xmr is one of the only coins that are not possible to buy without registering.
this is a handicap. people are lazy and will always be.

it really depends on what btc does the next few days i think. the xmr buy side is exhausted, there has been no recovery since the last outflow some days ago.

[bold] Shapeshift?[/bold]

I was about to say the samething.. with shapeshift you can buy monero without registering anyplace... but i agree with you, there is a need to create more demand to watch the price rise

By the way... at the momment any marketplace that acept bitcoin can be payed with monero anonymously using shapeshift or xmr.to, i already bought some VPS/Domains with monero.. yesterday when i made my last purchase i noticed that the prices on xmr.to are better than one shapeshift, dont know if its an normal thing or if there are times when is more profitable use shapeshift... but both good services

[1714748274]

1714748274

[jehst]

Shapeshift isn't very transparent about the BTC:XMR fees. If it's 1%, then that's too much for a coin to coin trade.

[dEBRUYNE]

i think the current (non existing) moves in price reflect the lack of infrastructure at least to some degree. Polo is the only liquid exchange. Xmr is one of the only coins that are not possible to buy without registering.
this is a handicap. people are lazy and will always be.

it really depends on what btc does the next few days i think. the xmr buy side is exhausted, there has been no recovery since the last outflow some days ago.

How did DASH manage to get on Bitfinex? Did they pay for it?

Dug this up:

I'd bet that BFX started accepting DRK after possibly some underhanded negotiation convinced BFX that accepting DRK would posture BFX as the leading premier exchange of the fancy newfangled anonymous coin of the future, supported by certain DRK whales' (ahem, Otoh) assurances to make the market.

It may be prudent for someone to eloquently notify them that this is not the case, and the only public decentralized cryptocurrency protocol that has proven anonymity is CryptoNote. Also, that the structuring of DRK's coin distribution is too reminiscent of a pyramid scheme. They could save their amazing exchange a lot of face...

With the precedence set by the SEC of Pakistan...
http://siliconangle.com/blog/2015/04/05/leocoin-yet-another-bitcoin-alt-with-links-to-ponzi-schemes/

...it is all the more likely that the rather conspicuous signs of rats fleeing the sinking ship that is DRK suggest that they too realize such a risk is presented by the instamine + masternode reward scheme:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999084.0

Moncada [masternode] openly stated in via thread that dark is on bitfinex only because of him. He further said he knows big names and can make dark reach places

Sounds bullish imo. Any project would benefit from people who can make things happen.

It definitely was, and an excellent move on their part. On BFX's part I'm sure they got good commissions, but now, the picture doesn't seem as clear.

&

Anybody knows someone from Bitfinex?

BTW - Does anyone know about this? Were Darkcoin scammers trying to increase the supply at will?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f7z840EcKjGNr7jZTwHL1u5HDTGNqHeeCszrR0Iy1J8/edit?pli=1

My colleagues at Omni work pretty closely with Giancarlo, their CFO, and I've had friendly chats with him and Raphael,  but I think it should be a matter of merit that convinces BFX to exchange XMR. Edward Moncada, Darkcoin Foundation member and one of Otoh's good buddies, told me he worked together with Otoh to convince (probably bribe) BFX to accept DRK. We should just present a good economic case instead and build up volume organically to the point BFX and other exchanges realize they're missing out on commissions/a great posturing opportunity. This is probably easy when the devs finish the official release (not so easy).

[medusa13]

shapshift has not enough liquidity. also no real price detection can happen there.  its a nice service, but can not replace an exchange.
the only real untraceable coin can only be bougth through a KYC exchange. What worries me most is that i seem to be the only one worrying
Its not becasue of me. but i think some of our potential users could be hindered by this. and users is what we need and what we want.

[luigi1111]

shapshift has not enough liquidity. also no real price detection can happen there.  its a nice service, but can not replace an exchange.
the only real untraceable coin can only be bougth through a KYC exchange. What worries me most is that i seem to be the only one worrying
Its not becasue of me. but i think some of our potential users could be hindered by this. and users is what we need and what we want.

You are certainly not the only one worrying about it.

Bittrex is available, but liquidity isn't great, and who knows how long it'll be 'til they have KYC as well. Barely seems worth it to try to move liquidity there if it's going to end up the same way.

So yes, it'd be nice to have another exchange. How do we get one?

[shitaifan2013]

shapshift has not enough liquidity. also no real price detection can happen there.  its a nice service, but can not replace an exchange.
the only real untraceable coin can only be bougth through a KYC exchange. What worries me most is that i seem to be the only one worrying
Its not becasue of me. but i think some of our potential users could be hindered by this. and users is what we need and what we want.

maybe it's time to promote moneroclub.com a little bit more. and there is always the #monero-otc channel.

but I get your point   I just think that whoever is looking to buy a huge amount of xmr will always be able to do so. he might have to live with a high markpup though.

[hodlmybtc]

While I personally don't like Cryptsy XMR has been at the top of the voting list there for a looooong time.

https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes

AFAIK they also got help from the XMR devs to integrate it, so what's up with this?

[ArticMine]

shapshift has not enough liquidity. also no real price detection can happen there.  its a nice service, but can not replace an exchange.
the only real untraceable coin can only be bougth through a KYC exchange. What worries me most is that i seem to be the only one worrying
Its not becasue of me. but i think some of our potential users could be hindered by this. and users is what we need and what we want.

True. There is nothing preventing using a mixin of say 5 for transactions between one's "current" wallet and one's "savings" wallet. For spending funds can first be transferred to one's "chequing" wallet also using a mixin of say 5 first.

Edit: What should not be done is using an exchange "as a bank" particularly a US based exchange with gambling sites. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg11614097#msg11614097 This is just asking for trouble given the laws in the United States regarding gambling sites. The issue here is that a perfectly legal transaction in many jurisdictions, may now become illegal by using the exchange as a bank.

[dEBRUYNE]

While I personally don't like Cryptsy XMR has been at the top of the voting list there for a looooong time.

https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes

AFAIK they also got help from the XMR devs to integrate it, so what's up with this?

Going to quote myself here:

I just voted for Monero to be listed on Cryptsy. You are currently in 2nd position with 27,170 votes.  

Unfortunately, I don't think it will do any good. Monero was at the 1st position for a few weeks months ago and was not added.

But thanks for your effort.

Rumours say that cryptsy will get a revamp the coming months and that with this revamp some 2.0 Coins ( non Bitcoin-Clone code ) will be added... so maybe we will see XMR

To add some sources: http://www.polonibox.com/?messageId=2973184

Horus is accounts security manager @ cryptsy -> https://twitter.com/Horusisthesun/

[hodlmybtc]

Thanks, will be good against trading centralisation at least...

[dEBRUYNE]

shapshift has not enough liquidity. also no real price detection can happen there.  its a nice service, but can not replace an exchange.
the only real untraceable coin can only be bougth through a KYC exchange. What worries me most is that i seem to be the only one worrying
Its not becasue of me. but i think some of our potential users could be hindered by this. and users is what we need and what we want.

You are certainly not the only one worrying about it.

Bittrex is available, but liquidity isn't great, and who knows how long it'll be 'til they have KYC as well. Barely seems worth it to try to move liquidity there if it's going to end up the same way.

So yes, it'd be nice to have another exchange. How do we get one?

Since Bittrex and Cryptsy are both US based one can reasonably expect they will (have to) implement KYC as well in the foreseeable future. So I guess that leaves us with the following options: BTC38 and/or Bitfinex. BTC38 has a voting list as well -> http://www.btc38.com/trade/vote_for_trade_en.html, but you can only register on there with a QQ or Facebook handle, which is de facto also KYC. For Bitfinex, perhaps we could make a proposition or talk to them once the next tagged version (with DB) is out. I think they might be interested if we could move all volume there and someone (or the devs) helps them integrate it. In my opinion that wouldn't be difficult, since people generally prefer non KYC exchanges over KYC exchanges. The KYC is just another hurdle most people don't want to take to buy an alt. Furthermore, Bitfinex is a big and reputable exchange.  

[Johnny Mnemonic]

I think a big issue with exchange adoption has been the support burden surrounding payment IDs, which was why I was pushing the integrated address/PayID solution. I'm betting exchanges will be more open to supporting XMR when that's out of the way.

[medusa13]

shapshift has not enough liquidity. also no real price detection can happen there.  its a nice service, but can not replace an exchange.
the only real untraceable coin can only be bougth through a KYC exchange. What worries me most is that i seem to be the only one worrying
Its not becasue of me. but i think some of our potential users could be hindered by this. and users is what we need and what we want.

True. There is nothing preventing using a mixin of say 5 for transactions between one's "current" wallet and one's "savings" wallet. For spending funds can first be transferred to one's "chequing" wallet also using a mixin of say 5 first.

yeah but this is not enough if there is no free gateway. at least for now. maybe somewhen in the future this is all we will get(still a lot ), but not now allready.

the situation is clearly holding us down. the current weakness during a market move like this just confirms it in my eyes.
time to move on. finex or btce would be my prefered places to go

[medusa13]

I think a big issue with exchange adoption has been the support burden surrounding payment IDs, which was why I was pushing the integrated address/PayID solution. I'm betting exchanges will be more open to supporting XMR when that's out of the way.

yes this seems very useful:

- no missing payment id's
- no UI modification (maybe make address field bigger  )

what did i forget?

still, they will need to implement the back end

btw. can you point me to info about this? i did not notice it

[binaryFate]

yesterday when i made my last purchase i noticed that the prices on xmr.to are better than one shapeshift

It's always like that. I don't know exactly how they choose their price, but we make a point in having a better one.

[luigi1111]

I think a big issue with exchange adoption has been the support burden surrounding payment IDs, which was why I was pushing the integrated address/PayID solution. I'm betting exchanges will be more open to supporting XMR when that's out of the way.

yes this seems very useful:

- no missing payment id's
- no UI modification (maybe make address field bigger  )

what did i forget?

still, they will need to implement the back end

btw. can you point me to info about this? i did not notice it

I don't remember who stated it above, but I do agree that the lack of exchange/merchant adoption might have something to do with the hassle of depending on users to include payment IDs.

Pay ID serialisation into the receiving address looks pretty far down on the roadmap. In the meantime, is there a reason why Payment IDs can't simply be appended to the address and parsed automatically by the client? That would make it much easier for third parties to manage payments until "stealth" payment IDs eventually get implemented.

No checksum is one reason why this will potentially backfire. That and the payment ID space is unnecessarily huge.

I'll take a look at my notes from the MRL meetup in November last year, we had some ideas about fixing the payment ID format and serialising it, there may be a quick win to be had whilst we chip away at the stealth payment IDs.

I disagree that we need to do nothing while we work on something better (obviously one does not preclude the other at all).

There is no checksum now. The length and valid characters are checked but that's it. The exact same thing can still be checked if the format is changed, slightly to something like

Code:

Send to this address: 46BeWrHpwXmHDpDEUmZBWZfoQpdc6HaERCNmx1pEYL2rAcuwufPN9rXHHtyUA4QVy66qeFQkn6sfK8aHYjA3jk3o1Bv16em-e981847d2b9e1860d56bcb2263864db976d52e88c9c97db5e734d204f06bedac

Instead of

Code:

Send to this address: 46BeWrHpwXmHDpDEUmZBWZfoQpdc6HaERCNmx1pEYL2rAcuwufPN9rXHHtyUA4QVy66qeFQkn6sfK8aHYjA3jk3o1Bv16em

and use this payment ID

e981847d2b9e1860d56bcb2263864db976d52e88c9c97db5e734d204f06bedac

Adding the payment ID with checksum seems fairly simple. I went and created a test address just now:

Code:

Standard Address: 44sKiMHpNjRivdd2NQUyViGYZy4wbJ9L9KhFUaqSSE6JQP9LLbxL9tSikwrhYTRu3x2zKR28txuEc3zSGPduQ9byMUKoz6m
Payment ID: feedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeed

Code:

Integrated Address: 44sKiMHpNjRivdd2NQUyViGYZy4wbJ9L9KhFUaqSSE6JQP9LLbxL9tSikwrhYTRu3x2zKR28txuEc3zSGPduQ9byXSb563RKvyBgorjsFGwyx9gorjsFGwyx9gorjsFGwyx9TpPbbCy

What I did:

Instead of the standard hex format - ('12' network byte) + (public spend key 64 digits) + (public view key 64 digits) + (checksum 8 digits) - I stripped the checksum and appended the payment ID, then recalculated and appended the new checksum. This creates a 101 byte address instead of the standard 69 byte, and 139 "Public Address" characters vs 95 standard.

cnBase58 --> hex the above "Integrated Address" and you get (separated for clarity):

Code:

12 55a1e49673f5a8faa6ba4f942585695ceee5c7522496be6fc38d3f09905e3f8b ca6313deac11aff9a7241e7095863b0be3099d50d7a0cd11e0adbcf4990e64b5 feedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeed b1d0950e

The code just needs to check for length to determine the type. Alternatively, (I don't know what all the other cryptonotes are using) the network byte could be changed to 0x13 (done) or something for the "Integrated Address".

https://github.com/moneromooo-monero/bitmonero/tree/integrated-address

[smooth]

BTW, the integrated address stuff is merged now.

[Bassica]

Good jobs guys! The least hurdles the better. Next step would be the lmdb merged into master. Of course exchanges are able to compile from github, but I guess it makes sense for them to wait for the official release so that all is tested thoroughly and working smoothly.

I wouldn't be surprised to have 2 (or) more exchanges on board shortly after. Monero is one of the bigger alts with regards to consistent trading volume, and has a healthy and active community as well as a trustworthy, solid & skilled devteam. I'm sure that if they reach out for some help implementing they'll be welcomed with open arms.

 

[smooth]

Good jobs guys! The least hurdles the better. Next step would be the lmdb merged into master. Of course exchanges are able to compile from github, but I guess it makes sense for them to wait for the official release so that all is tested thoroughly and working smoothly.

LMDB is merged into master as well. There just isn't a tagged release yet, because important active development work continues on things like portability and performance. But if you build your own node from master you will have gotten lmdb for several months now.

[kazuki49]

While I personally don't like Cryptsy XMR has been at the top of the voting list there for a looooong time.

https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes

AFAIK they also got help from the XMR devs to integrate it, so what's up with this?

Going to quote myself here:

I just voted for Monero to be listed on Cryptsy. You are currently in 2nd position with 27,170 votes. 

Unfortunately, I don't think it will do any good. Monero was at the 1st position for a few weeks months ago and was not added.

But thanks for your effort.

Rumours say that cryptsy will get a revamp the coming months and that with this revamp some 2.0 Coins ( non Bitcoin-Clone code ) will be added... so maybe we will see XMR

To add some sources: http://www.polonibox.com/?messageId=2973184

Horus is accounts security manager @ cryptsy -> https://twitter.com/Horusisthesun/

this is good news, thank you for keeping us informed.