I don't see anything wrong with running a passthrough that makes it very clear what investors are investing in. They are providing a service people want and doing it in an honest way. All of the GLBSE passthroughs are very clear they are pirate related. All of the GLBSE passthroughs are very clear they are pirate related. Bitcoinmax might be an exception as it could mislead novice investors. On the other hand I suspect some of the "dank bank" kind of investments paying 1-3%/week are undisclosed passthroughs.
1) If anyone gives any BTC to Dank Bank I can't help you. The guy posted about getting a loan for a new car. He wanted $17k / repay $34k. Sounds like I guy I want to do business with. Oh he also has a 1-3%/wk Ponzi Scheme? shocking. 2) Bitcoinmax, in addition to enjoying the Lending category, is a main fuel source for fresh weekly investment into Pirate's scam. Bitcoinmax "Small deposits welcome" sweeps up all the tiny scam BTC monies from the internets and ships it to a guy named Pirate in 1 lump sum. This is disgusting what the passthroughs in general are doing, trying to make .1% and listing clearly "If BCST fails, so does this" - this means the pass-through running knows it's a scam, but is willing to perpetuate it as long as possible making small % for himself and greatly benefiting the scammer. |
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the most staunch supporters like BurtW and Bitcoinmax staunch supporter? i think i've been pretty agnostic to be honest. i've never said pirate's op is a ponzi, but have also never claimed that it isn't. maybe you didn't see the link in your sig: Bitcoin Max - Paying 6.9% per week... Small accounts welcome. I'd say being the single largest contributor to a guy named Pirateat40, gathering all the smaller monies to ship him one big headshot each week minus a few points for yourself qualifies you as being a staunch supporter of his scam. you are the largest affiliate of the BTC Bernie Madoff. If you "Never claimed it wasn't a Ponzi" it means you are smart enough to know damn well it's a ponzi and you want to close your eyes and put fingers in your ears because you are making .1% + Pirate bonuses (he gave u some "atta boy!" btc I'll bet - you have helped him steal quite a lot) each week you continue to take deposits you continue to ship money to a guy named Pirateat40 and continue the scam's operation so Pirate can profit 1 more week. I'm a realist. It's a scam and you know it. You know he doesn't have everyone's principle. You know he's using new investment to pay interest for previous investors. You are helping it grow, spreading evil. I'm not the law, but I represent justice. You need to change your ways. |
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BurtW and payb.tc will completely disappear, but will reappear on these forums under a new name.
Bullshit, Micon. These are honest guys. (FTFY... You meant payb.tc) meh, we'll see / I'll bet u will have different words for them in 2013 |
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Then perhaps there needs to be a deposits subforum. While deposits/loans can be considered the same thing, I'd argue the loans are typically given by the more trusted to the less trusted, whereas the deposits are given by the less trusted to the more trusted and as such, represent two different market segments. The people stickied in the deposits subform, while not officially endorsed, would be your long term, seemingly highly reliable people.
Absolutely not. The sooner you realize that loans and deposits are ABSOLUTELY the same thing, the sooner you'll wise up and realize that the risk profile is no different. We will not separate deposits from regular loans other than through the "Who Pays What?" sticky, no exceptions. running into yet another problem when you mix scams with legit lenders at ballpark traditional lending rates. the lending section should be for legit lending. One of bitcoin's killer apps is the possibility of low transaction fee micro-lending. Africa needs the shits like yesterday. Somalia - no government? no currency? no problem - they have tons of totally unregulated cell providers. Where there is internet there can be money. let's not ruin this? |
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Hi guys,
As some of you may know, I'm the main person in charge of stickies in the Lending forum along with John. Our current policy is to sticky major lenders in order to separate them out from all of the lending requests. I believe that this is reasonable, since there are far fewer lenders than lendees, and when people go to the lending board for the first time, chances are that they are looking for a loan, so making them be stickies makes sense.
However, what has happened is that many of these lenders have started taking out loans of their own in the form of deposit programs and they are advertising them through their sticky, giving them an unfair advantage over all of the other loan requests. In fact, just this last week I had to yell at BurtW for converting his sticky into ONLY the deposit program. As a result, I took about a week to reevaluate the sticky requirements in the Lending board, and I think I have a solution that I want to hear the community's opinion on.
I propose that after giving the current sticky holders a few days of notice, no current sticky in the Lending board other than the Who Pays What? sticky can even mention a deposit program in the first post of the sticky. The only exceptions to this would be for mentions that are part of the company name and the user's signature. No other mention would be allowed in the first post of the sticky, and any other mention would most likely be considered off-topic and subject to deletion as per standard moderation rules. As such, I will likely request that the users make a whole new thread to replace the current sticky, and one of us will swap the two threads out.
Let me know what you guys think.
The Lending section is currently a joke, and a black eye on this forum and soon to be bitcoin as a whole when the BCST ponzi finally goes boom. Most threads in Lending are Ponzi derivatives or "pass throughs" all sending BTC to 1 guy in 1 giant, biggest ever BTC theft. that being said, they should be allowed to operate, and guys like me should be allowed to post that they are blatent scams and you shouldn't send BTC to them. Currently categorizing anything that claims to pay 6%+ per week as "Lending" gives major credence to these scams, and the Ponzi schemers are making tons of BTC from this categorization. Lending section stickies are extremely valuable to the thread OP. It should cost BTC to get stickied there, in auction format, with ~ 1-4 stickies total available for purchase, top 4 bidders get a sticky thread. would be a good way to monitize this forum to make BTC and improve it, sustain it, give away some to users, etc. 1) as a forum, you are helping this guy scam ppl: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=66802.0 by not only allowing his scam to be listed under "Lending" but now you are HELPING the scammer by giving him a sticky! When I saw this place I almost thought, holy shit I have to start yet another forum. They are going to kill bitcoin or at least try and harm it greatly. I will bring it up at the poker table and ppl will say "oh bitcoin - you mean that internet scam-currency everyone is always stealing? the one with the bitcoinica theft? and the $1M+ USD Ponzi's listed as "lending" on the only major bitcoin forum?" 2) Mods eyes cannot stay shut and admins cannot stay silent on this matter any more. I know everyone was waiting for it go boom as block-chain investigation, even if embellished by the scammer 5x, is starting to get to a point where new investment this week < interest + principle withdraws requested. This is an obvious scam that you guys let go unchecked for so long that like a cancer it spread all over the GBLSE in bond form and so many "trust account pass throughs" threads, allowed clear as day to be listed under "lending," while a guy named Pirate gets funneled tons of coin, profiting greatly every single week - more and more BTC scammed from the community, week over week, unchecked by the mods, who all seem to understand it's an incredibly obvious scam, and they still list it under lending 3) We should brainstorm solutions. Here is a possible starting point: Categorize all investments based on APR% - if someone lists 7% /wk interest investment, I want it categorized as 3000%+ APR category. Yes someone with some economics knowledge will need to read each on and categorize appropriately. This person or panel of 3 or voting of 11 board members or something would be fine. Most of these are easy. If you had a handful of investment sub-categories such as: <10% APR investment threads 10-25% APR investment 25-100% APR investment 100-1000% APR investment 1000-3000 and of course for those really looking to gamble, the 3000%+ APR investment obvious scams. ok you don't need to keep the obvious scams part of the last one, but you understand. Categorize by rate of yearly return. The scams will categorize themselves. More organization and decision making process must be implemented here. this is a very important community IMO. The world watches us occasionally here. Usually whenever there is a huge theft to write about. Unfortunately, there will be another to report very soon. Lets at least learn from this and set up structure to categorize correctly and discuss further as the issue progresses. |
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miscreanity is spouting vague salesman-type Ponzi gibberish like its his job
lmao
nothing he says makes any sense
"churn at the margins is being capitalized upon"
reverse FUD IMO. Pirateat40 even called for "anti-FUD" in the latest edit of BCST OP. So sick how he has these affiliates doing his bidding for him, both collecting and shipping him tons of BTC and defending the scam to the forums. All of them working for pennies on the dollars he is stealing. Disgusting, even more so if the pass-through operations actually understand what they are doing. After it goes boom most pass-through operators will claim ignorance, so it's important to remember their tone here. Further more the most staunch supporters like BurtW and Bitcoinmax will completely disappear, but will reappear on these forums under a new name. Watch for them / always try and connect the human to the multiple accounts. IMO the search for Dox should commence now but be held private until the boom. |
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The burden of proof is on pirate and his shills. It is a ponzi until proven otherwise as far as any reasonable person is concerned.
Why? [additional bullshit omitted to spare humanity] from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_burden_of_proofWhen debating any issue, there is an implicit burden of proof on the person asserting a claim. "If this responsibility or burden of proof is shifted to a critic, the fallacy of appealing to ignorance is committed".[1] This burden does not necessarily require a mathematical or strictly logical proof, although many strong arguments do rise to this level (such as in logical syllogisms). Rather, the evidential standard required for a given claim is determined by convention or community standards, with regard to the context of the claim in question.[2][3]
[vomit, diarrhea, more farts from the mouth...] Permit me to simplify: E_p > E_npwhere E_p = N (for large positive values of N) is evidence of being flaming ponzi and E_np = 0 is evidence of not being a flaming ponzi Oh right, once again, no facts. [to be read in a pathetic, withering squeal] A simple truism: the burden of proof lies on those making incredible statements which contradict all experience. The returns promised require extraordinary explanation.FACT: No explanation is provided. End of story. One can only conclude that what looks and smells like an utter fraud is, in fact, an utter fraud. Obviously, much evidence exists that this is a ponzi scheme [as in exhibits literally each and every characteristic of a ponzi scheme], and the lack of any evidence to counter is sufficient for appropriate branding. Demand for the impossible proof of a negative is a reliable gambit for the conman and also assuages the bedeviling consciences of the naively complicit (and there are many of those, indeed). very well said. I tell internet: "I have a secret business plan that if you told you then I could no longer profit" now according to skeptics in this thread, after making this statement no acceptable concrete proof of Ponzi can be accepted because of this super-secret vague money machine you should take me at my word that I have & it's extremely profitable. but want to let you invest in it. |
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Again, I'm not giving you grief here. Your statement that "most of them feign not being interested in taking your money (even though they are supposedly paying absurd rates). Ponzi schemes like to seem "exclusive"; this is a diagnostic characteristic." is fascinating, and I would love to read case law or the original research that has concluded this. Honestly, this is really, really basic stuff. It's Ponzi 101. Any good introduction to Ponzi schemes will cover this. Madoff famously refused many investor's money. It was not unusual to hear people argue that if Madoff was running a Ponzi scheme, he wouldn't refuse any deposits. He also cleverly warned people that because withdrawals disrupted his strategy, people who withdrew might not be permitted to re-invest. One very basic thing any major scammer does is at least occasionally, intentionally act against type. You have to look carefully to get the big picture. +1 please continue smacking down the Fuddettes with fact and logic. tytytyty for being vigilant in this thread. |
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Hehehe, my thoughts exactly  this guy is hilarious. It's a shame really, because it's a relevant issue he's trying to bring up. It's just his way of bringing it up that's totally wrong  1) I add humor to even serious proceedings such as this. The accountant approach would be better, but I'm not an accountant 2) I know I come across as condescending and have taken some measures to alert possible "investors" in other threads and in general tried to make a lot of noise about this because as the smart ones know this will be another black eye for bitcoin, another "lol look at how easy it is to steal these bitcoins" article. This thread is the 2nd most viewed thread ever in Lending section, behind BitcoinMax. almost 10k views as of now. I'm also linking it to a handful of other BTC and scam-detection sites as it's hard to find one of these so blatent, so public, and still running. So whatever I did, it has brought attention to this massive scam and will continue to do so. I know I wasn't the first or only to say this, but this thread needed the organization and the continued logical arguing vs. team Pirate and the FUDdettes to drive the point home. |
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And now for the non-troll, legit question that I'm hoping someone can reasonably explain..
If BS&T is somehow a ponzi, why would Pirate encourage stable balances? He's offering people running the trust accounts a .5% bonus if they can keep their total trust account balance stable within 5%. Interest payments don't count, but deposits and withdrawals do. If he is indeed a ponzi, why would he be discouraging deposits >5%? Obviously paying out 7% would rapidly overtake deposits <5%, so what's the game plan with that. I'm not convinced Pirate is a ponzi, although I cannot 100% say he isn't since I'm not actually him so I'm hoping someone from the 'other side' can help with this.
Well, you're learning something new to many people around here. So, if you are a Trust and have 10 000 BTC, you get a bonus if you keep the balance between 9500 and 10500 for 1 week? If that's the case, I'm seriously wondering how a ponzi could work that way. It's another mental barrier to people considering removing funds. If interest payments don't count and are just allowed to compound, then people who might otherwise draw down their balances will be tempted to let them sit, reducing the number of withdrawals that call upon a limited pool of funds. To be honest, if I were running a ponzi I'd probably do just that - it looks legitimate and it makes juggling cashflow easier and more predictable. Over what time period are we talking for this .5% bonus? Yeah, if that was the case for withdrawal, I would agree with you. But deposit? Since when do you prevent too much deposit on a ponzi? ok so now you have to write on your ponzi affiliate thread "NO MORE ROOM FOR INVESTMENT" and "CURRENTLY CLOSED" and now the donks really want to invest next time they get an opening. lets say a big investor comes in. Wants to deposit 5000 BTC. The schemer then says "Ok, don't you ever tell anyone I let you in when it's closed. I am doing this as a favor to you. You are a long standing trust account and I'm still going to give you the .5% extra" easy game if u don't have the capacity for empathy that would personally overwhelm me if I scammed so many people for so much money. |
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If BS&T is somehow a ponzi, why would Pirate encourage stable balances? He's offering people running the trust accounts a .5% bonus if they can keep their total trust account balance stable within 5%. Interest payments don't count, but deposits and withdrawals do. If he is indeed a ponzi, why would he be discouraging deposits >5%? Obviously paying out 7% would rapidly overtake deposits <5%, so what's the game plan with that. I'm not convinced Pirate is a ponzi, although I cannot 100% say he isn't since I'm not actually him so I'm hoping someone from the 'other side' can help with this.
1) The "stable balance" bonus is a trick to get you not to withdraw your principal 2) Pirateat40 needs new investors to pay out old ones - or trick old depositors that are owed interest to "re-invest" so all he has to show them is a number on a page, and avoids an actual BTC payout for 1 more week. 3) When [actual BTC weekly interest payout] < [actual BTC new investment] then the Ponzi scheme collapses - but remember in that calculation if Pirate didn't have to send a hard payment, i.e. BTC sent to your wallet, then that amount is not added to [actual BTC weekly interest payout] 4) Pirateat40 and all Ponzi schemers will offer you many propositions to delay taking a payment. All of them are trying to lower total weekly payouts so the schemer can keep on scheming, profiting each week that new investment > actual payout. |
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1) Full disclosure, I am a site pro at SealsWithClubs.eu - the only bitcoin poker site - and I am heavily invested on Bitcoin working long term.
2) I tell everyone that I introduce to BTC that IMO there is a 25%+ chance of total technical fail. A list of possible ways this can go down, and of course I cannot conceive even half the reasons:
-- massive cracking of the "uncrackable" public / private key cryptography - "It's cryptography that can't be hacked!" scares the shit out of me. Possible solution: massive team of dedicated, super-smart programmers on this shit 24/7 and working for good. Need Linus Torvolds and shit.
-- massive technical fail of the blockchain - real world weed-induced 1-of-a-possible-100000 scenarios: China starts to hate BTC b/c it frees their citizens and lets them gamble and get drugs and shit. China likely controls a super-duper headshot botnet - likely more valuable than nukes at this point in human history - and they decide to take out Bitcoin. They can likely get that shit done by 3pm the next week. uber-botnet, brute force 3x the current nodes and start to corrupt the blockchain. without much technical know-how on how the blockchain works i'll just bet theoretically china could fuck up our awesome distributed DB if they tried hard enough. So could USA, and so could Isreal & a handful of other countries. N. Korea has even been getting in the game recently, and seem to be good enough to fuck up a S. Korea bank recently.
-- I hope the above ramblings at least illustrate the point that there are such numerous ways this can all go boom instantly.
I just hope those dedicated neckbeards are working for good, and working 'round the clock. I just read somewhere this was the largest distributed software something - either largest network or largest software project. I hope some bill gates types or warren buffets or Soros or someone comes in and tries to help legitimize us before they kill us - we need those nerds and beards and scientists and software engineers on that client and defending against the constant shots ppl are taking at it and developing the solutions for shit like "satoshi dice just made the blockchain 20% bigger" and other scalability issues we must face quickly. Anyone got metric for how many programmers on the sourceforge project? is it well taken care of?
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3) I know exactly what he is doing, how he does it and why. It is not a ponzi. It is a a legit business taking advantage of a rare economic opportunity that was just explained to you better and more detail than I have seen anywhere else.
Seems like we are past the denial / drank the kool-aid theory. BurtW - you know exactly what you are doing - it's shameful and I hate you for doing it. You are knowingly defrauding many users, making a small profit yourself, and helping the largest BTC scammer ever run a scam. I hope you get Dox'd / wish I met you to take a pic. So that justifies hating him for it? yes, I hate those doing intentional harm to my beloved bitcoin in order to make a quick, dishonest buck like yourself. You pray on the naive and are doing evil, not good. I am not the law, but I represent justice. I hope you are also Dox'd, running your bullshit DankBank ponzi is bullshit too. Unless you are financing drug sales, at which point you may be sustainable. If anyone ever posts a drug-growing-silkroad-selling bond or investment op, I want to see some pix of the plants. |
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so you are going to kick me in the nads before Pirate even though he's stealing $1M+ USD from the BTC community and I'm pointing it out?
[snip]A LOAD OF BLABBERING[/snip] Please answer me with all your evidence of him STEALING $1M+ USD as you stated. You dont claim he will steal it, you claimed now that he is currently/allready stealing it in your own words which I have requoted again. Sorry similar examples doesnt constitute as facts even though it might give you some strange arousal thinking you are the GOTCHA MAN. If you lack the fundamental command of the english language and dont understand that you expressed his theft as something that allready occurred then you should really hit up books other than poker-related. PS. Nothing will ever beat your own financial LULZ 500% expected interest within 24hrs on loan that you got scammed for, NOW THATS going down in history as the biggest turd. Aw man really? "A LOAD OF BLABBERING" ? citing clear examples from multiple sources vs. Pirateat40's own words drawing extreme similarities, almost to the T? u got nothing to reply to my actual post full of facts and links? |
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so you are going to kick me in the nads before Pirate even though he's stealing $1M+ USD from the BTC community and I'm pointing it out?
Again I ask you to provide any shred of evidence for your claim above and I bet you will again ignore this question. Show all of us your evidence of the $1M+ that pirate stole from the BTC community and I will back you up on all the retarded posts you have made so far. Please, I am waiting. Maybe after reading this a few times you will figure out just how retarded all these claims come to be but it wouldnt surprise me that you dont understand the difference between speculation and facts. so here we are again, with Pirate acting exactly, and I mean almost to the letter of a ponzi: 1) Here is a 5 min video explaining how a Ponzi Scheme is a redistribution of wealth, not an investment or lending activity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW5aDmQLqVY2) here is a second link with some elements to look for in a Ponzi -- http://economics.about.com/od/financialmarkets/f/ponzi_scheme.htm 3) here is the wikipedia for a Ponzi -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme4) here are pirateat40's own words from this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0Frequently Asked Questions Q: Why should I trust you? A: My #bitcoin-otc ratings are available in my signature. I've run BS&T for a while now and although past performance does not guarantee future results, it does alleviate some of the concerns investing brings. With that said, you should always consider an investments objectives, risks and expenses before investing your money. Q: What are my coins used for? A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following: Market ArbitragePrivate Loans To Network MembersNever Criminal/Illegal Related Q: How do you make enough money to pay these rates? A: If I told you then I couldn't do what I do. Q: How do I setup an account? A: To open an account at BS&T you'll need to be referred by a current account holder. This allows me to limit new accounts from unknown or untrustworthy users while building trust between the members of the network. Q: Why did you send coins back to me? A: The system has a floating threshold that's based on the amount of activity expected in any given week. If a deposit is made that exceeds the threshold, coins are forced out of the system. Current Weekly Interest Rates 3
5,000+ BTC 5%
15,000+ BTC 6%
25,000+ BTC 7%If the bolded area did not scare you off this investment, your scam-dar is severely broken and you must repair it. If I'm short and condescending it's because your stupid for investing in this bullshit. I have been stupid and gotten scammed before too. I'm trying to help anyone that is currently invested get out and I'm trying to prevent new ppl on the fence from getting scammed. The very first line of "Characteristics" under the Ponzi wiki: Typically extraordinary returns are promised on the investment,[5] and vague verbal constructions such as "hedge futures trading," "high-yield investment programs", "offshore investment" might be usedNOW FUCKING OPEN YOUR GOD DAMN EYES AND LOOK AT PIRATEAT40'S FAQ: Pirateat40's FAQ: Q: What are my coins used for? A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following: Market ArbitragePrivate Loans To Network MembersNever Criminal/Illegal Related DOES THAT SOUND LIKE VAGUE CONSTRUCTIONS? HIGH-YIELD INVESTMENT PROGRAMS? MOTHERFUCKER SAYS "LARGE INVESTMENT TRANSACTIONS" AND THE OLDIE BUT GOODIE "MARKET ARBITRAGE" AND YOU GUYS FIRE $1M+ USD WORTH OF BTC TO A GUY ON THE INTERNET NAMED PIRATE. AT LEAST THE STORY WILL BE FULL OF YOUR NAIVE AND CUTE LITTLE FINANCIAL LULZ |
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In the vacuum that is a lack of evidence saying otherwise, many things point to a Pirate pyramid. We get this.
The insane style of "I'm better than you so I must be right" delivery by the OP, the trolling of other threads and holier than thou attitude means I'd actually kick the OP in the nads before I did the same to the pyramid operator.
Seriously, if you want to be holier than Pirate and others, up your game and act professional.
so you are going to kick me in the nads before Pirate even though he's stealing $1M+ USD from the BTC community and I'm pointing it out? |
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loving Frankie and his debate style.
When is the next round of interest payments from Pirate due? I have the actual popcorn right here
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The site is fantastic! Functionalities rock! What I like the most about BitcoinMax.com its security! I feel that my coins are secured @ BitcoinMax more than @ GLBSE, for one simple reason; that the withdraw address is fixed and can not be changed without a request+prove of ownership of the withdrawal address. It is such point that made me choose BitcoinMax over any PPT bonds @ GLBSE.
I just love the interface of this scam! So easy to use now! Also it's easily the best scam out there, and we know in today's Lending category there are a ton of choices, so we thank you for choosing this version of Pirate's scam, a $1M + USD Ponzi about to go boom. Remember, you guys are still sending tons of BTC to a guy named Pirate. Every pass through deposit, every PPPT bond or whatever, all BTC to pirate, small % to his top affiliates, "investors" about to take it on the face. |
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