I introduce the first Brazilian Bitcoin investment group. Utilizing the great opportunity that Bitcoin offers, the investment group offers up to 12% return in 30 days. This is the very first of its kind in Brazil, it is now offered to the entire Bitcoin community. Lets all make profits! Original Brazilian post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46721.0English version:Investment Group The Bitcoin long become a great tool for investment and speculation. We have almost a hundred Exchanges around the world working with dozens of different currencies. As might be expected, there is a slight or even significant variation between these values Exchanges and always will be. Is the difference between the exchange coins or even the dynamics of supply and demand that each exchange suffers. Several tools were developed not only to track this variation, but also to act effectively in the sign of a profit opportunity. It followed this movement for a few months and we have managed to successfully carry out operations that represent a good profit margin. We are creating an investment group to maximize the potential of this work that will create the following results: - Generates profits for investors above the industry standard in traditional investments. - Disseminate bitcoin as a reliable and secure investment. Let's start the first group of 200 investment quotas bitcoin 1 each. You can purchase as many shares you want, until it reaches the total value of 200. What this move, will be in a queue to be called as the investment cycle is followed. The dimensions are valid for 200 investments in 15 days minimum. You can extend your investment for 30 days at most. When choosing 15 days, means that after winning this period, that share will be available again for another investor, and you enter the queue again. We decided to open a smaller group first in order to guarantee payments made. As the group is succeeding, others will be opened the same size of quotas. Description of the first group: Starting: 10/10/2011 Duration: 15 or 30 days (calendar) Dimensions: 200 1 each BTC 15 days Yield: at least 4%, reaching around 6% 30 days Yield: at least 9%, reaching around 12% Administrative fee: 0.60% on income To participate: Send an email to invest@bitcoinbrasil.com.br with: - Number of shares that you want - Period of investment: 15 or 30 days - Address to receive Bitcoin You will receive confirmation with the address Bitcoin to perform the transfer. Will be accepted for this group committed transactions to the 0 hours of 09.10.2011 (24 hours before the start date) Withdrawal: 3 working days after the period of investment in BTC. Warranty: Regardless of the progress of the investment will be paid the minimum income provided within chosen. Some questions: As this value is applied? As I said before, we monitor the Exchange that most have some volume and exchange rate variations, and operate when it is presented a good business opportunity. Is to apply in money? No. This group will operate only via Bitcoins. How do I keep track? Everyone in the group will receive emails every 5 days with the latest information on investment and earnings forecast for the end of the period. What is the minimum and maximum quota I can purchase? At least one of BTC and a maximum number of shares that are available. It is interesting to invest in Bitcoins? Yes, the bitcoin has reached this year to around 30 USD! You can profit from the change in the same or even on the variation of the dollar. Wink Any questions, we are here. Let's make money? Hugs. L. so this one is already dead right? investors lost most of the btc sent? |
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1) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46750.0 this is a total scam, obviously. 2) use the following test to see if any of these "investment groups" or "high interest savings accounts" are scams: 2a) DO THEY DO ANYTHING AT ALL TO MAKE MONEY 2b) if the answer isn't anything that makes sense, it's a scam. "trading" is not an acceptable answer. All of these investments that claim to pay these outrageous rates of interest are scams, will fail, the fallout will be felt far and wide by this young community (both age of the technology and age of the average user) |
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I observe poker is a game of chance and there is some skill that can be applied. But I would prefer not to take investment advice from a card player - I consider that a deficient qualification.
I will concur that experience does not necessarily lead to wisdom. It depends on the person. Some people are wise with limited experience.
I happen to be older than 33 (this person) and I object to his characterisation of forum members as "kiddies", elevating himself above others he has no knowledge of.
The credit rating metrics you refer to are a mechanical process as set out in the relevant thread and are based on principles covers by Standard and Poors in their publications on Corporate Credit Ratings. It looks at the financial ability of different issuers to make good their liabilities. I do not need to do that, and someone else could easily have done so. I am not asking anyone to rely on them, and of the 12 requests for information, only 1/3rd have responded. However, you point here is more about discrediting my point of view rather than looking at the credentials of the OP and the advice he is giving. If you wish to debate credit ratings, please do so in the relevant thread.
Sir, your defense of the BTC ponzi industry, which will crumble in a relatively short period of time, is dead wrong. You mention principles of Standard and Poors & corporate credit ratings in the same thread as BTC ponzi schemes - you are comparing financial ratings based on balance sheets of multi-national corporations whom have to adhere to SEC accounting laws with what amounts to nothing more than a scamming lemonade stand on the internet Nice comparison you have there. The truth about the world banking sector is allready out but then again you only look at a deck of cards 24/7 so you clearly have no idea about the LIBOR scandal, HSBC scandal etc. SEC is non-existing, its bought and paid for by the banks so they can self regulate themself(non-regulation) and if you still think the world is run by those who offer a service(banks) and monitored by capable indepdent SEC offices then sir you have no fucking idea whats going on in this world. Its time for you to spend atleast 10% of your gambling disease time and find out whats going on in the real world, there is NO REGULATION and it allready crumbled, please note $4.6 trillion missing pension funds due to LIBOR scandal and this is slowly affecting every country. I have some wisdom for you, first educate yourself before you have the nerve to try and educate others. Here is a fun read about Bryan Micon: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/bryan-micon-rolled-12k-o-town-singers-buddy-19295/This was one of the GEMs of the quoted forum post made by Bryan Micon on NWP: Quote:
Get me my [censored] $ back and I'll give you $2k of it. Tell me what you need clarified. If someone wants to take off the month of October and has a car and nothing else to do (I think I have a good shot of finding someone like that here....) I'll pay your expenses for a few weeks to go DOG bounty hunter-style on his ass and of course upload pictures and video to NWP as you go.
LMAO!!!! Ok, one. But it is only from 10 days ago. Micon launches
SNGDOMINATION.COM
Micon's SNG results:
Micon 578 -$2 $83 -2% -$936 - FullTilt
micon 883 -$4 $92 4% -$3,900 - PokerStars
Just to give you an idea, Micon launches a training site to teach people how to win SNG's but at the same time look at his SNG track record just before launching the site? Micon isnt even a clever scammer, just play retarded. "give me 12k and i give you 100k tomorrow . . ."
Thats how Micon got scammed, he paid someone 12K cause the guy told him he would get 100K back the day after ie. Micon was happy to invest 12k for 24hrs in return looking for ~833% Interest. Legendary Micon, you go champ of scam detections. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-mBUA-uUDM -> Priceless, total douche and perhaps an Phil Hellmuth impersonator since he cant stand on his own 2 sticks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdpuTMY6yMU -> Must watch, self proclaimed superstar opens his heart over his own absolute karma-based stupidity. Yes Bryan this is what happens when you scam others out of their money selling pokerbooks with a losing poker playing history on the subject you are training ie. SNG. The worst thing possible for the bitcoin poker industry is to get Micon involved up front, he will fucking destroy all hope for it. (she's taking some time to get ready, didn't realize it was a slam-dunk and wouldn't require any time) 1) yes I was paid to put my name on a handful of poker teaching products, I told them what I knew and the company that paid me marketed it. Here are some SNG stats maybe you missed:  2) check my live stats / up $250k at Rio since 2006 / 2 WSOP FTs, 63rd in the main event. Seriously, let's argue more about my poker playing and less about $1M+ BTC ponzi schemes. 3) Donkdown is my poker forum and podcast, anyone can call me up any show and debate me on any topic. this invitation is open to you. We can debate my poker ability, results, and respect in the poker community. Listen to my last 2 podcast, where Jennifer Harmon was our special guest one week followed by a 40-minute interview with Daniel Negraneu the next. I think these people do not come on scamming podcast shows run by scumbags. 4) In addition to gambling, I am involved with a handful of other ventures. I'd say my time is split closer to 60/40 in favor of business these days. Take a google around me, and see if you really think I'm a total scumbag or may be a guy with a few years on him that can spot some major scams and hopefully save some ppl some BTC. |
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Okay, I re-read the contract now, apparently I misread 2013 as 2012 the last time. You have a point.
All I'm saying is, if it's that important, there are other options to explore than Occam's razoring the forums.
I don't think the bet proved anything. If pirate defaults, he will be up hundreds of thousands of bitcoins. He won't mind having lost a 5k bet; it will have been worth it for the good PR it generated - the "hey, BS&T must be legit if pirate is willing to bet such a large amount that he doesn't default" PR. Micon should get in on some of that action. Offer to make another 5k BTC (or 12k? that has a nice ring to it) bet with pirate on the same terms as the other bet maybe. It's a dead cert, right? wow I would love to get in as much money as possible as a guaranteed win. Who is the single most trusted Escrow for such a large amount of BTC? I can't imagine one I would trust other than putting the wallet.dat file on an HD in my Aria box. sounds like a great PR move to take a $500k USD ponzi to a $2.2M ponzi for $45k. Scammers gonna scam, and they are gonna scam better and more anonymously with BTC. And ppl like me will work tirelessly to stop them and educate the ppl currently getting scammed on how to mitigate the damage starting now. |
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Come Bryan, dont pussy out now.
Respond to my post regarding FACTS about you and your dealings and not pure speculation as you have put forth in this thread.
You sir are an poker community outcast simply due to your ability to act and scam like a retard wherever you go and then getting scammed because you were oozing puss of greed.
don't worry. just because I didn't post in 12 hrs doesn't mean I won't be responding. I will respond completely to both ponzi schemes and any ethical accusations when I return from a meal with m'lady. Be back in a few. |
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Micon, so what about the .5%-2.5% per week schemes? Those are legit right?
link me to example. likely just a slower ponzi. remember Bernie Madoff returned 1% each month like clockwork. every month 1%. likely slowest and biggest ponzi ever. definition of a ponzi scheme - can have no underlying business unit to make money, i.e. payments to "investors" must come from new "investors" 2.5% a week isn't always a ponzi, and the majority of legit businesses pull these figures or larger. Hell, I make over 1.2% a week in the Second Life stock market. I also buy ceiling clips for $0.30 direct, and then mark them up to $13.00. Generalities are a bitch. You mention business units that profit money to theorize how a business could pay 2.5% weekly interest on money - but if such a profitable business unit existed, say, you could buy something for $.30 and sell for $13 - would you take on investors and share the wealth? btw Bitcoin Savings & Trust has no such business unit - or no business unit at all - it is all based on deposits to keep the scheme going. There is a constant flow of depositors that hopefully > constant flow of interest payments, as soon as that balance is negative the operator stops paying. That's how these work... for over a century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme |
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I believe, to the best of my knowledge, that given the absence of any public financial disclosure and an extremely high rate of return that the Bitcoin Savings and Trust is a Ponzi scheme.
I'd like to make this a forum-based petition of bitcointalk users who agree with this. I don't want to do a poll, because I want people to commit their user name to this statement.
I'm interested in seeing how many people agree with me. I'd prefer to have any debate over this issue in a separate thread.
My theory is that if you want to develop community, then you need to figure out who to trust and what is a scam. Bitcoin has suffered from too many scams.
So if you agree, reply and say "I agree".
I agree / started my own thread pointing them all out we must at least contain these ponzis outside the marketplace > lending category - it's making BTC look foolish |
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This is a ponzi scheme and I want a date-stamped post by me exposing it before it's collapse.
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Want a date-stamped message from me claiming this to be a scam, as it's nothing more than a derivative of BCST, which is a huge ponzi scheme and a scam.
withdraw as much as you can as quick as you can if you have already sent BTC.
if you did not send BTC, DO NOT SEND BTC.
obvious ponzi is obvious
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wow, i feel honoured that i'm second only to BST... thanks for the free publicity, micon.
i understand you are running a derivative of BCST, and you feel good about your large customer base. they will not feel so good about you soon. You are helping spread a ponzi scheme. Your actions are shameful and you will see this only after the big collapse. It won't be long. Weeks or months likely. possible to get most of a year if you can get aggressive investment, but that doesn't seem likely now. |
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I've invested a bit of money in Bitcoinmax. Not much, but some. I may be fairly new to Bitcoin, but I'm rather adept at life. I certainly have enough real-life experience under my belt to understand how to mitigate a high risk transaction. I'm sure that a 6.9% compounded interest rate is not sustainable in the long term, but for now, it seems to be working fine, no? Of course the whole thing may collapse tomorrow (or sooner), but that's a risk I'm willing to take.
And, come-on. Just *getting* into Bitcoin (educating yourself about it, transferring funds, exchanging funds for Bitcoins, setting up wallets, etc...) probably means you have a better than average understanding of risk management.
Services like Bitcoinmax have value. They allow people (for various reasons...I'll explain mine in a moment) to do some heavy speculating. Sometimes that works out, sometimes it doesn't. It's the individual's responsibility to mitigate the risks. If Bitcoinmax fails tomorrow (or sooner), I have nobody to blame but myself. He plainly states that he doesn't guarantee deposits. He plainly states that all of the risk lies with the depositor. So, what's the problem, here?
I take a bit of umbrage when people come around and insist telling me that I'm being scammed. If I were being lied to, or the risks of the speculation were hidden from me, that may well be the case. I don't see that happening, here.
I plan on watching my deposit on a daily basis and start mitigating the risk of said deposit as soon as possible. This can be done any number of ways, but the important thing is, I'm taking responsibility for my own actions.
I love Bitcoin and these forums because they are generally anarchistic and unregulated. I enjoy seeing mutual cooperation come together to solve problems in a void. There are ways of of determining scams, and the serious people on these boards seem to be coming up with good counters to those scams all the time. This is how a free, unregulated market is supposed to work.
I'm not a child. I understand the risks. I want to swim in these waters, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
**The reason I'm speculating in Bitcoinmax at the moment is to get my "feet wet" and to attempt to grow a large enough stake where I can start doing lending of my own. This is a learning process for me. If I lose my stake, I'll chalk it up as a price of admission.
And, that's all I have to say about that.
while I do not like scams like this and will point out every one that comes up here, I agree they should be allowed to operate for people like yourself that understand they are being scammed but still want to participate. these should NOT be listed under marketplace > lending makes this forum look foolish to anyone that finds BTC and sees what we mean by "lending" - these ponzi threads are littering the Marketplace > Lending section, which should be reserved for actual lenders |
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The only missing ingredient is how
I have "invested" money in goods and sold them on ebay before making 100-300% (although it took a bit longer ) so 0.5 to 2.5% is more than achievable IF there is something legitimate behind it
you cant prove its a ponzi without knowing whats behind the scenes
and the ponzi schemers never tell you what is behind the scenes. Without having read most of them, and with BCST being the largest it appears, can I bet that they claim to be "trading" or "investing" behind the scenes? what business other than extremely large scale drug sales could yield such staggering results? do you believe a website with nothing more than a login, password, and a hash to deposit and withdraw has such an amazingly profitable business unit and they unselfishly want the entire BTC community to profit with them? no, they are all scams. very small % at the top will profit. do not assume you will ever get back your initial investment, the interest most of you earn will be a fraction of what you put in when they all finally go busto. Although, it will be fun to watch them go busto and bet "correct" - but I will feel bad for the ppl that lost BTC learning their lesson the hard way. Most of the BTC'ers I've talked to on Seals have been young kids, and I felt that most middle aged or older people would be smart enough to spot these easily. |
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I observe poker is a game of chance and there is some skill that can be applied. But I would prefer not to take investment advice from a card player - I consider that a deficient qualification.
I will concur that experience does not necessarily lead to wisdom. It depends on the person. Some people are wise with limited experience.
I happen to be older than 33 (this person) and I object to his characterisation of forum members as "kiddies", elevating himself above others he has no knowledge of.
The credit rating metrics you refer to are a mechanical process as set out in the relevant thread and are based on principles covers by Standard and Poors in their publications on Corporate Credit Ratings. It looks at the financial ability of different issuers to make good their liabilities. I do not need to do that, and someone else could easily have done so. I am not asking anyone to rely on them, and of the 12 requests for information, only 1/3rd have responded. However, you point here is more about discrediting my point of view rather than looking at the credentials of the OP and the advice he is giving. If you wish to debate credit ratings, please do so in the relevant thread.
Sir, your defense of the BTC ponzi industry, which will crumble in a relatively short period of time, is dead wrong. You mention principles of Standard and Poors & corporate credit ratings in the same thread as BTC ponzi schemes - you are comparing financial ratings based on balance sheets of multi-national corporations whom have to adhere to SEC accounting laws with what amounts to nothing more than a scamming lemonade stand on the internet |
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I think bitcoinmax doesn't have a place on that list, since it's only a pass-through. Alternatively, you could try to include all pirate pass-throughs. The starfish maintains a list of the most prominent lenders here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81542.0Some of those are definitely not ponzis/scams though, and others are unlikely, so such a list wouldn't be very credible. On the other hand, it may serve as a reminder for lenders to do their own research. what does "shaking up a volatile market" mean?
If you have enough capital to control a highly volatile market, it may yield high returns. It's obvious that this is being done in the BTC markets. I don't know what this has to do with BTCST though. it must be stopped or at least exposed and categorized correctly.
Everyone says it must be exposed, but where is the definitive proof? I suggest you create a bounty for the person or persons who can bring proof that it is a ponzi. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would donate to that (especially the investors themselves). It would be much more helpful than laying down thousands of bitcoins for bets against pirate. what more proof do you need that a business with absolutely no business function? |
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I'm local in Vegas / if any defcon bitcoin guys need anything at all, even just small stuff like info on where to eat:
(don't eat at rio - take a 4 minute cab ride to chinatown extremely close proximity to Rio
-- pho kim long
-- Lee's sandwiches
-- DJK korean BBQ (has tofu in the google maps search for some reason, but it's not tofu - it's "meat headshot" as we call it / they cook tons of meat in a table-grill)
-- google search "ramen" - there are a ton of them - new style japan-based awesome soup + noodles
-- thai noodle house 2 - the top thai place - get the potstickers
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Pretty sure Micon is a puppet for that guy who has the huge bet on Pirate defaulting.
Assuming this is the same Micon (I believe it is) he's actually pretty well known in the (online at least, not sure about live) poker community. i run donkdown poker forum site pro at sealswithclubs did thriller dance at WSOP / pro poker player 2x WSOP FT's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-mBUA-uUDMfully legit guy here and wore a BTC button during all WSOP, check the pokernews pix I also am 33 yrs old and have been scammed before when I was younger and ppl try to scam me all the time here in Vegas. Seen a ton of scams and how they go down and some of you younger kids could learn a bit. |
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We are all going to be rich! Stop trying to stop us! How dare you! Do you really expect us to stop deluding ourselves and start doing something productive?  BTW you can add all the so called pirate pass through bonds to your list. The are just his co-conspirators who would be equally liable for fraud IMO once/if "savings and trust", lol, is revealed as a ponzi (so would be every singe ponzi promoter on this forum). A ponzi is not a ponzi until it defaults ......or is it ? no it is a ponzi when it starts, as it runs, and when it defaults So ,you think pirate is not shaking up a volatile market and making money by doing so ....... You think he has designed the BTCST to be a ponzi right from the start ? what does "shaking up a volatile market" mean? he has a site. you can deposit it pays interest each week (as long as there was enough new depositors that week) it's a ponzi scheme. It doesn't do anything. it doesn't make a product, provide a service, or do anything tangible that anyone would want to pay for. it's is nothing more than a scam. and it is listed under the "lending" section, making the entire BTC space less credible and it must be stopped or at least exposed and categorized correctly. And oddly enough ppl will likely still fire on it after we do that. |
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Micon, so what about the .5%-2.5% per week schemes? Those are legit right?
link me to example. likely just a slower ponzi. remember Bernie Madoff returned 1% each month like clockwork. every month 1%. likely slowest and biggest ponzi ever. definition of a ponzi scheme - can have no underlying business unit to make money, i.e. payments to "investors" must come from new "investors" |
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Funny how he only lists BTCST as a ponzi when pretty much every other BTC security returns Ponzi-like divs. Every single one of them. Come on now, .5%-2.5% a WEEK? Are you f**king kidding me? Where's the outcry about those?
please link me to all ponzi's / lending scams with extremely high interest rates. I am going to keep a complete list in the OP of this thread. I apologize for not being extremely active on this forum and not knowing about all of them. I added https://bitcoinmax.com/ just now to the list. It is a complete and utter shame that these threads are allowed to be listed under Marketplace > Lending it should be under MarketPlace > Ponzi do not put this crap in with MarketPlace > gambling because some of us out there are trying to run a legit, sustainable gambling businesses such as SealsWithClubs & SatoshiDice & a few other operators out there trying to do it right. These obvious ponzis are so obvious but there are just too many 19-yr old silk road btc ballers that keep shooting their coin into these things, thus sustaining for just a bit longer. A ponzi always implodes, remember that. yes a few at the top (and the site owners) profit wildly. an overwhelming % get boned. |
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obvious Ponzi is obvious.
can ppl still ship their BTC here.
amazing the stupidity of the young kids with digital monies. likely a cheap lesson for them, alarming as to how much BTC is locked up in these scams.
A shame this and other ponzi threads are listed under "lending" in the forum - they should be listed under Marketplace > Ponzi so at least new BTC users don't think this is an actual lending product.
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