Folks, I have a ton of e-mail offers I am working through right now. I should be able to get to everyone by tomorrow afternoon. If you would like to cancel your order, please send me an email letting me know and I will take you off the list, thanks. However, do not take my lack of reply as a lack of interest, I am a bit overwhelmed with offers at the moment.
Yikes... May be bigger than I thought... |
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I can arrange a 1k BTC Bet on Pirate default if you would like.
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1) feel free to start a new thread if you would like to attack my representation of SealsWithClubs. I find it akin to civil disobedience. Yes online poker is illegal in the USA right now - do you think that is wrong? I certainly do, and I will proudly wear my Seals patch during the WSOP. Go snitch me to the DOJ if you want - it's not like I'm hiding - but do so in a different thread. This 1 is now about BCST going boom.
2) "let's wait and see if he pays" ok let's see. The process should be swift and efficient. For me it died today. Remember it's in his best interest to keep stalling and making up excuses not to pay.
3) please try and not resort to personal insults when discussing this matter
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BurtW shilling until the very end. Do the other shills have as much heart?
Clipse? Aq? Psy? bitcoin.me ? imsaguy? "Silence Lloyd - it's fucking golden" - Ari Gold |
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1) It is a mixture of denial and anger that leads to the users who post "Aw man, all this FUD happened so Pirate had to close shop" - how could this thread prevent the "market arbitrage" from continuing? did we expose Pirateat40's "secret trading strategy" that if everyone knew about he couldn't make these huge profits? 1a) For those just picking this thread up, the Pro-Ponzi group loved the term "FUD" or "Fear, Uncertainty, & Doubt" - a term I believe Pirate gave them to label coherent logic about how BCST operates as a Ponzi Scheme. 2) Here is what Pirateat40 changed his OP to in this thread --> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0 After much consideration, I’ve decided to close down Bitcoin Savings & Trust.
Why?
The decision was based on the general size and overall time required to manage the transactions. As the fund grew there were larger and larger coin movements which put strain on my reserve accounts and ultimately caused delays on withdraws and the inability to fund orders within my system. On the 14th I made a final attempt to relieve pressure off the system by reducing the rates I offered for deposits. In a perfect world this would allow me to hold more coins in reserve outside the system, but instead it only exponentially increased the amount of withdrawals overnight causing mass panic from many of my lenders.
So now what?
I’ve spoken with my clients over the last week and come to an agreement that would allow me to close down my operation within a week. Currently my reserve (operating wallets) are drained from fulfilling the withdraw spree that happened after the rate drop announcement. All withdraws at this point will be delayed until Monday when the shutdown process begins..
At this point I will no longer accept deposits. Any coins sent into the system as of now will be returned immediately.
When will I get my coins?
Starting Monday I’ll begin systematically closing and withdrawing accounts as coins are transferred. I don't expect the entire process to last longer than a week. The moment your account is closed you’ll receive your coins plus any interest accrued up to the hour it was sent.
Thanks
I’d like to thank all of my lenders and PPT operators that were a key element in making Bitcoin Savings & Trust a success. Bitcoin has grown a lot since I started this and want you to know that you were a vital part in helping it grow.
Now, I have a lot of work to do. Stay Tuned
-pirate
BTW, this is all bitlane’s fault. (j/k you nut) Again, we are talking classic Ponzi 101. At the time of collapse, a smart Ponzi schemer will let the marks or "investors" down as easy as possible, stalling for as long as possible to avoid the initial anger and possible retribution from marks who have lost money in the scam. The excuse as to the closure is almost as hilariously vague as the original description of the BCST scam: The decision was based on the general size and overall time required to manage the transactions. As the fund grew there were larger and larger coin movements which put strain on my reserve accounts and ultimately caused delays on withdraws and the inability to fund orders within my system. Let's dissect this statement: - The decision was based on the general size and overall time required to manage the transactions - there exists a BCST website to automatically do the transactions. Bitcoin has an API
- As the fund grew there were larger and larger coin movements which put strain on my reserve accounts and ultimately caused delays on withdraws and the inability to fund orders within my system - big coin movements? put strain on reserves? inability to fund orders? vague, lofty language that says nothing of substance. What are all these coin movements and ability to fund orders anyway? Pirate never told anyone other than BurtW his investment strategies - why does the fund being too large force it's closure?
and now for the stalling. And this part is very important to a Ponzi schemer. The anger some of the scammed "investors" should feel on this day will now be turned into nervousness over the next week, not anger: So now what?
I’ve spoken with my clients over the last week and come to an agreement that would allow me to close down my operation within a week. Currently my reserve (operating wallets) are drained from fulfilling the withdraw spree that happened after the rate drop announcement. All withdraws at this point will be delayed until Monday when the shutdown process begins.. some vague reasons for not paying all BTC out right now, or at least half, or 25% of what everyone is owed. Remember his thread is locked and there is almost no way to contact him at this point, save BurtW and Paytob.tc - they likely have contact info but he will stop talking to them soon too. Maybe then they will give us any info that could lead us to the Dox. But either way, the After-the-fall-Ponzi-stall is on. When will I get my coins?
Starting Monday I’ll begin systematically closing and withdrawing accounts as coins are transferred. I don't expect the entire process to last longer than a week. The moment your account is closed you’ll receive your coins plus any interest accrued up to the hour it was sent. Yes, starting Monday (not today of course) there will be a closing process. This process will involve Pirateat40 destroying some Hard Drives, trading BTC for USD & Euro, and booking some plane tickets. This process will NOT involve the orderly return of BTC funds. This is the stall after the fall. If you are owed $$ from Pirate, a passthrough, a bond, or whatever other fictional vehicle you invested in that is exposed to BCST - it's game over starting now - but you likely won't be angry for a week still because of what the scammer posted. |
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When he does pay everyone back (with interest) will we get a heartfelt appology from Micon and everyone else on team Ponzi?
I will make a youtube video with a straw hat on, a sign that says "I, Bryan Micon, was 100% wrong about the matter of Pirateat40 & Bitcoin Savings & Trust" I will then also compose 16 bars into a rap about FUD, and how BurtW was right. The rap will also touch on inducting Pirateat40 to the BTC hall of fame and will portray Satoshi as a closet cross-dresser from Idaho that makes it big time at Goldman Sachs and recruits some of his friends to start Bitcoin in 2008 I assume you will do the same for me if I am right and you are wrong? |
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new addition for the list? "What am I doing with the coins?"
If I was to provide a simple answer like buying 50 BFL singles and going mining, or putting 10,000 coins into XYZ asset on GLBSE then there wouldn't be much science in that and it would ruin the market that I am looking at. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100913yay - I'm famous. Good job and congrats on the new venture PatrickHarnett. The free advertising is definitely a win for the Starfish! yikes it seems like these shill and/or pro-Ponzi accounts are also big in the mining threads. I will bet even money some of the mining bonds are dirty. These are going to be much harder to prove when compared to this giant obvious Ponzi because there is in fact an underlying business unit that will likely make at least some money. The most transparent mining bonds with updated stats and verifiable blockchain payments from mining pools should be the standard. I have not looking into even 1 mining bond yet so I have no clue what I will find. |
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new addition for the list? "What am I doing with the coins?"
If I was to provide a simple answer like buying 50 BFL singles and going mining, or putting 10,000 coins into XYZ asset on GLBSE then there wouldn't be much science in that and it would ruin the market that I am looking at. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100913I believe the Pirate Ship is going to sink before I have the 10+ hrs to research every iteration of the PPT's on GBLSE and every "I'll pay you unreasonable% per week" thread - although I think I am close, just needs more grooming of the list. After those are done then it's time to investigate all the questionable mining bonds and the obscure scams that don't fit those categories. After BCST goes boom, this low-level scammery will die down after the entire community sees the damage done. I'll bet new rules / categories will be created. I will look into Patrick's thread. |
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If a company like google was going to get into bitcoin they would need to secure a lot of coins and could afford to pay extra to avoid messing with the price too much. They wouldnt want to signal their entrance into the market.
Where else are they going to go but pirate ?
Oh, I missed this one. This is a gem. If Google (or some other big business) would want to secure a lot of BTC, I think they would first contact MtGox and try to negotiate some kind of a deal. Or, just set up a team to manage their bitcoin holdings and do the buying themselves, otc or exchanges. Or just f'in mine the stuff. But, there's no way someone can buy a significant portion of a limited resource without moving the price up, Pirate or not. Supply and demand. Mt. Gox is a minor participant in the btc 'economy'. Have you seen the average daily volumes? You have tunnel vision. More btc moves outside Gox between two parties than all the turnover in the average day. I'm not supporting the Google hypothesis but you really should do some basic math. You just look, well, like a stoner. he may look stoned, but you look like a shill: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=9963;sa=showPosts |
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If a company like google was going to get into bitcoin they would need to secure a lot of coins and could afford to pay extra to avoid messing with the price too much. They wouldnt want to signal their entrance into the market.
Where else are they going to go but pirate ?
Oh, I missed this one. This is a gem. If Google (or some other big business) would want to secure a lot of BTC, I think they would first contact MtGox and try to negotiate some kind of a deal. Or, just set up a team to manage their bitcoin holdings and do the buying themselves, otc or exchanges. Or just f'in mine the stuff. But, there's no way someone can buy a significant portion of a limited resource without moving the price up, Pirate or not. Supply and demand. It is laughable to see what the FUDdettes will say to try and convince just 1 more mark to invest in what could be the bitcoin-acquiring arm of the Google corporation. |
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That is either "impossible" or "totally cool" - depending on your point of view
Discuss/Flame on!
3000%+ APR debt is impossible to be legit. BurtW - again I beg you not to listen to me, but to ask any CPA / accountant / MBA / Lawyer / Doctor / anyone with a retirement account / anyone that is solvent and responsible over the age of 60 - just point them here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0 and ask them if there is any possibility of the program being legitimate. Again you suck fancy words out of your thumb, where is the 3000%+ APR debt ? You make it sound like he loans from investors for a year then repay them which is absurd and just plain fking stupid. Pirate only carry debt from day to day and if he ends it tomorrow he has one day of debt to clear. Pirate does not have anywhere close to the principle he would owe if he were to try and pay everyone back. Each week principle from all investors is depleted to pay the interest. He will also offer bonuses to "leave the coins in" so he only must display to you a number on a screen as proof he is holding your money, not actually send the coins (deep thought: actually sending the coins just makes a different number in a different system on a different part of your screen. Think about seeing actual coins in your wallet vs. a number on the BCST website - which one makes you nervous and which one do you fully trust? ) |
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To aq, clipse, imsaguy, and burtw (who I think knows what's up but has issued so many Pirate pass-through bonds on GBLSE he is posting in his sig "no, it's not a Ponzi" which makes me believe he is greedily trying to make the scam run just a bit longer) : do not take my word for it - ask someone that is smart and that you trust to read this thread, read BCST original thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0 and have them tell you their thoughts on the investment plan. I have already. There are similarities to a ponzi, but similarities aren't enough to determine one way or another. I've never denied it isn't possible for him to be a ponzi, but no where have you acknowledged that its possible for businesses to have insane periods of growth and profit. I believe its that lack of acknowledgment that shows your ignorance. Just because you've been scammed in the past doesn't make you an expert in scams and/or economics. 1) I fully acknowledge that it is possible for businesses to have insane periods of growth and profit 2) that being said, the BCST thread stats that you are a debt holder earning 7% weekly. You do not own any equity in the business. This amounts to 3000%+ APR, which in the history of business has never been a sustainable debt % and literally 100% of the time has always been a scam. Facebook & Microsoft equity holders would have realized gains even higher than 3000% - but remember those were world-shaping products, that would never, ever take on 3000%+ APR debt. It is also quite erroneous to equate this business plan: Q: What are my coins used for? A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following: Market Arbitrage Private Loans To Network Members Never Criminal/Illegal Related Q: How do you make enough money to pay these rates? A: If I told you then I couldn't do what I do. with the aforementioned companies. |
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That is either "impossible" or "totally cool" - depending on your point of view
Discuss/Flame on!
3000%+ APR debt is impossible to be legit. BurtW - again I beg you not to listen to me, but to ask any CPA / accountant / MBA / Lawyer / Doctor / anyone with a retirement account / anyone that is solvent and responsible over the age of 60 - just point them here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0 and ask them if there is any possibility of the program being legitimate. |
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while still being a ponzi scammer.
Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong. Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims. This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works. Until you can prove that, its just a theory. You sound like a creationist. By the way, care to explain where I am wrong? A while back I lined out why the two main theories of how his business might be legit can't be true. Because that's how science and the rest of the world operate.. until there's evidence, its just an idea/theory. And a while back, I outlined a theory that is extremely plausible. So much so, that maged is researching it now. it is a slippery slope when Pirate's investors have to theorize his business unit that pays them 3000%+ per year in interest. I know you want to keep your fingers in your ears and your eyes closed screaming over anyone explaining how obvious scam is obvious, but you refuse to ask anyone close to you about this - have a parent, a smart uncle (everyone has the degen uncle - don't ask him) or a college professor. Ask anyone with an MBA, any accountant or CPA to look at this thread. Ask any Lawyer or doctor you know to read this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0 and then ask them if it has any possibility of being legit. |
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while still being a ponzi scammer.
Until he defaults or doesn't live up to the terms of the arrangement, he isn't a scammer and has done nothing wrong. Yes he is a scammer. He is a scammer because he's paying interest to his debtors from other debtors' money while alleging he's paying it from profits he gets from his business. The business either does not exist at all or does not generate the kind of returns he claims. This is obvious to anyone who has even a vague idea of how the economy works. Oooh now you are an expert on how the economy works, please tell more. I will give you some free advice on how the economy of the world is working, its a massive ponzi scheme, nothing more. Being jealous without facts doesnt make you an expert on any economy, nevermind the bitcoin economy. Your narrow view on speculative facts, ahum yeh oxymoron hey! is a perfect example of how jealous the naive could be. so you are basically saying "BCST is a Ponzi, but so what the rest of the world is too" |
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Let's consider the two main "business models" people tend to propose for Pirate:
If there's almost unlimited demand for bitcoins among millionaire investors (there's no proof of this at all by the way; if this were the case, BTC price would be much higher) someone else would beat Pirate by selling to them at a smaller premium. Pirate must overprice his service since he has to pay his astronomically high interest on his debt. There's only so much you can do to overprice your service just by having the right connections. Someone will have almost as good connections and will be getting a fiat loan as 3% or lower yearly rate to finance a pirate-like service and keep his fees at a small fraction of what Pirate must charge. So, Pirate will be driven out of the market very quickly, since he has voluntarily crippled himself by issuing so much ultra-high interest debt.
The second option: He's controlling the markets and earning super-high profits on market movements, since he can force others' hands by having larger volume than anyone else. Firstly, there's absolutely no evidence that this is happening and extensive evidence to the contrary. Secondly, in a highly artificially manipulated market like this, all other players will change their behaviour in order to not lose so much. Even if he can do the manipulation at high profit ratio for a short time, eventually his returns will dwindle towards nil.
So, it's utterly unbelievable that either of these is the case.
+1, but you said it all in your first line. This latest round of Team Ponzi & the FUDdettes (aq, clipse, imsaguy) are the latest to propose a possible business model for what they think is possibly an actual 3000%+ APR paying legitimate business. Here is what Pirate says he does with your $1M+ USD worth of bitcoins, in his own words: Q: What are my coins used for? A: Coins are primarily used for large investment transactions but may also include the following: Market Arbitrage Private Loans To Network Members Never Criminal/Illegal Related Q: How do you make enough money to pay these rates? A: If I told you then I couldn't do what I do. Keep making up possible business plans. Keep piling on the denial. To aq, clipse, imsaguy, and burtw (who I think knows what's up but has issued so many Pirate pass-through bonds on GBLSE he is posting in his sig "no, it's not a Ponzi" which makes me believe he is greedily trying to make the scam run just a bit longer) : do not take my word for it - ask someone that is smart and that you trust to read this thread, read BCST original thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.0 and have them tell you their thoughts on the investment plan. |
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1) Anyone thinks they can make a reasonable, block-chain backed guess as to actual BTC interest paid each week? Certainly Pirate is doing the Ponzi basics to keep weekly payouts low, but anyone can give the last ~ 4 weeks or so? see the progression? taking the interest numbers and extrapolating can show when the boom is most likely.
2) Clipse it's clear this thread upsets you, but please try and keep personal insults out of it, it detracts from discussion. I am guilty of this too from time to time. BurtW is a good example of someone arguing your side of this debate, but doing so in a respectful manner. Granted I think what he is doing is extremely wrong, but at least he is a gentleman in his responses.
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i wonder if many of the "recipients" claiming interest received actually are recipients, or just shills.
Well I dont think there is enough tinfoil to build a hat for that conspiracy notion. Do you really think that every single person posting on this forum who invested something in BTCST is a shill, please find just one post where someone who invested claims they havnt received interest etc etc etc. I also believe there to be many shill accounts reporting interest as paid. Of course there are many real marks too, the BTC has to come from somewhere. a few real interest payments + a few shills = the appearance of community support |
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1) For those that haven't seen it yet, most ponzi threads are now categorized as "Long-term offers" which obviously is not the correct category name, but at least there is a little corner for these scams to sit in now: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=88.0 I think a name like "1000%+ APR Investments" would correctly categorize them and is a huge warning bell to anyone with a sound understanding of economics. 2) That being said, here is the locked BCST thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822.1480 still erroneously in "securities" - I have seen many other scams in various other forums but it's good to see that at least a clean up has started and mods are taking action. 3) The direct communication with Pirate is interesting. If anyone wants to PM me conversations I would love to read them and will keep both your identity and the content confidential. If anyone out there involved in this scam in any way wants to communicate anonymously or privately with me I welcome it. Send anything you feel may be of help. |
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It's pretty hilarious watching the Pirate-folk having their little meltdown and pulling out random poker statistics that have nothing to do with anything.
It will be especially funny seeing which ones will disappear after Pirate defaults. Greed is one helluva drug!
It is an old tactic you can observe here all the time. They are trying to water down or derail the thread, trying to prevent analysis of the Ponzi scheme. It does not have any effect on intelligent readers. Yes, the personal attacks are only to derail the actual discussion. With Pirate so silent and his thread locked, you can be sure he is still pulling the strings behind the scenes, encouraging the affiliates to mobilize the FUDdettes into fighting this thread. TY to the intelligent readers keeping this thread on track. Keep dropping facts backed up with links and do not use personal insults. |
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