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2241  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: {BFL} Butterfly Labs gives their customers a FREEEEEE "Monarch" on: March 08, 2014, 04:42:07 AM
0 + 0 = 0.

BFL math adds up perfectly.

Just be careful they don't start dividing zero because that is when they will ship you your Monarch on an "UNDEFINED" schedule.

https://www.facebook.com/sharer/sharer.php?u=http://knowyourmeme.com/videos/5525

BFL is getting ready to implode.

2242  Bitcoin / Group buys / Re: [CLOSED] Bitmine CoinCraft A1 28nm chip distribution / DIY support on: March 08, 2014, 04:25:43 AM
The initial bring up 2 Chip Wasp A1 in hand... pick and place and re-flow ongoing. Room for 4 chips... 6 unlikely.

2243  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The Wasp Project Collective Information thread. on: March 08, 2014, 04:05:52 AM
Wasp is Born

The initial bring up 2 Chip Wasp A1 in hand... pick and place and re-flow ongoing.

2244  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: {BFL} WHAT! :( Butterfly Lads won't deliver the Monarch Till March or April:( on: March 06, 2014, 05:40:12 PM


2245  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: BFL Monarch update on: March 05, 2014, 10:48:19 AM
5 more weeks just for the chips... woohoo.

Wasp Eating Monarch Butterfly Caterpillar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNPiJbHJ5_E





The chips don't work.

Quote
Six Month Refund or Double Shipment Guarantee
If you’ve been waiting in queue for six months or more, you qualify for either a full refund in USD

Take your MONEY AND RUN or maybe even build some Wasps.
2246  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The Wasp Project Collective Information thread. on: March 05, 2014, 10:40:33 AM
Lucko please contact Beastly Mac he can get you in the meeting this Saturday unless you still have the teamspeak details from the last time. Just show up but give BeastlyMac or me a PM to let us know you are coming.

In terms of the boards and what we will have to recommend still waiting for our own prototypes boards to be fabricated first. We will provide all the details then and where we have had them fabricated. There are definitely some limitations in where metal core and the other ideas we have can be made but we will do everything we can to provide the details you need as a fabricator to get these A1 Wasps done.

Note we have procured 64 of the revised or newer BitFury 55nm chips and will be using that as our test bed for BitFury Wasp.

Also latest the initial bring up board is being fabricated now and should be ready this week.
2247  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: {BFL} WHAT! :( Butterfly Lads won't deliver the Monarch Till March or April:( on: March 04, 2014, 08:09:27 AM
There is too much dumb money chasing sha256 asic's.  Instead of buying antminers or anything else at this point, people should be buying Doge & LTC at their current prices.  You'll be glad you did a month from now.

Your crystal isn't broken. Many would agree with that.
2248  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Noncetech - small scale Bitcoin hardware manufacturer on: March 04, 2014, 08:06:34 AM
Seems very familiar... where have I seen this idea before?
2249  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Why you shouldn't buy Hashfasts new "up to 800GH/s" "product" on: March 04, 2014, 04:00:43 AM
Secret shopper good idea.

Guild / Collective good idea.

Sitting on our collective ass and letting others get screwed bad idea.

There is plenty that can be done.

Ideally it be best to have a positive format / forum where those vendors and customers can come to report legitimate and well respected companies. The idea that consumers and producers can't work together seems pretty silly given the number of people in this community that are both customers and now sellers and who have been scammed in the past and want to change that. Nothing better than having people wronged looking to right the problems.

This community can gain more if they are pushing for self-governance vs. expecting regulations or courts to resolve issues with unethical companies and people who are leeching off us. Most of these problems would go away if there was a concerted effort to promote what most of us want in Minerland. Product that we pay for is shipped quickly, no pre-sales bs and clear ethical guideline for refunds. Those who subscribe to this will win the market and the rest will die off. BFL or HF can't compete with say Antminer at this stage and that is good.
2250  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Why you shouldn't buy Hashfasts new "up to 800GH/s" "product" on: March 03, 2014, 11:54:01 AM

We need association or guild of reputable miner fabricators and developers.

i'd rather solo mine with 1gh/s.
JUST NO.
 Cheesy

I don't think you get the idea of the guild / association. It is a BBB for Miners. Not a mining pool or a place to sell products. Open to all who would rather deal with reputable and honest brokers in the Miner field as opposed to the HF / BFL / Avalon types.

no, i get the idea of a cult/sect/group orgy/foundation/union/guild perfectly well thank you.
if you feel the need to be part of a club, carry on. it's not for me, thanks.



If you want people to keep getting suckered... then I guess no sense protecting one another. Finger pointing in the wrong direction buddy.

2251  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Why you shouldn't buy Hashfasts new "up to 800GH/s" "product" on: March 03, 2014, 11:30:25 AM

We need association or guild of reputable miner fabricators and developers.

i'd rather solo mine with 1gh/s.
JUST NO.
 Cheesy

I don't think you get the idea of the guild / association. It is a BBB for Miners. Not a mining pool or a place to sell products. Open to all who would rather deal with reputable and honest brokers in the Miner field as opposed to the HF / BFL / Avalon types.
2252  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The Wasp Project Collective Information thread. on: March 03, 2014, 10:05:31 AM

... We have priced out metal core boards and that I think added about $3 to $5 more per board. So if that translates into higher hash rates for longer then we think that is reasonable cost as we do not want to do be doing RMA work for chip failures...

From a consumer point of view I would bet that additional cost would be insignificant, even when marked up, when you consider the cost of the devices and even the cost of carriage is likely to be substantially more than that upgrade.

It would be interesting, once the project gets a volume of hardware to market and given that you're looking at specifying a more industrial grade of product. If the ASIC fabricators would be willing to formalise a package-form to allow socketing rather than needing complete new blades. But that's quite far down the line I suppose.

At the moment, from the early concepts, I have this mental image of each blade being like a Pentium II/III processors (if you remember those), where it stands off from the motherboard and is pretty much a heatsink cartridge around a small board with chip mounted. Might be worth seeing how they handled these concerns? I know you've probably already considered this because you've said previously that you want the wasps/blades will be able to run independent of the hive, and having the chips as plugins themselves would take more of the control work off the blade and back to the hive which would mean they don't run independently.

I know everyone has an opinion and not everyone is an EE, so take these suggestions with a pinch of salt, I'm just finding the discussion very informative and the project fascinating.

For us in terms of re-doing the wheel each new chip that comes down the pipe we are fine with that variation given our design concept we don't need a lot of component changes just a reworking of the space around the footprint of the chip. We know that ASIC fabricators won't get on board with a single socket design that be too easy right? And the design is collective effort and has had back and forth on a lot of these issues to finally arrive at the current design. We are always open to ideas though that could benefit the project overall. One of the EE's was involved in the very first Intel chip designs so yes I am sure he is familiar with all of those sort of solutions.

In terms of the Hive it is really only there to push the power to the Wasp and provide consolidated data transfer it is a very basic modular set up. In terms of loading more on the Hive that is possible but we will have to see how this all shakes out after the first runs. We benefit from having a modular Hive in that cooling could be modular as well. Be it a unit inclusive of the Hive or individualized cooling for each Wasp. Personally I am partial to a http://www.iceotope.com/ configuration.



But considering the cost involved a immersion bath system like the guys at Asicminer in HK could be a better solution. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZavKweMrP4 from Allied Control.

Then again maybe the Minion and the BitFury Wasps could "overclock" in air if you have the right fan heatsink PCB combo. Who knows... but there are quite a few of us in the WPC that are itching to get our hands on some of the Wasps to see what "aftermarket" cooling we can do to them.

A newer version of the module Hive will be out when the Wasps are ready. We are also really keen to work with fabricators on casing / cooling so maybe someone really wants to work on that in tandem with us.

2253  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The Wasp Project Collective Information thread. on: March 03, 2014, 08:35:22 AM
OK so this is just a test board and it is not metal core...

The first few will be non-metal just to make sure we have everything working properly before we do our own lot of A1 chips into miners for the WPC and the fact the EE is building these by hand at a local fab that doesn't really have latest state of the art machines etc that the final production boards will have. This is a time saver as well to get us up and working on the Wasp initially. We have all our parts in hand in fact we have had them in hand since December if I am not mistaken.

The next respin of the Wasp will have metal core or at least some sort of solution so that we are not crying weeks or months later when we push a few of these Wasps with different cooling options trying to get the most out the chip and the A1's fail, that won't be something we want to be repairing. We will obviously give detailed information what we have put together in our gerbers and bom for everyone. We have priced out metal core boards and that I think added about $3 to $5 more per board. So if that translates into higher hash rates for longer then we think that is reasonable cost as we do not want to do be doing RMA work for chip failures.

These A1 Wasps are really going to be the test bed for our future Wasps using say the Minion or other chips. The package employed by the Minion seems to be more of a standard package to get heat out of the chips and less prone to temperature fluctuations issues that could happen with the A1's. So if we can get the A1 to work optimally with a longer lifespan the we suspect that future chips on Wasps will behave very well. Before we get to the Minion we will be working on the BitFury Wasp as well which is 90% to 95% completed in design.

More news coming this week and I will post as soon as I hear more out of Seattle. I am hopeful some flashing lights and a short video of the Wasp will be ready as well. And any PCB EE's out there keen on working with our team feel free to contact me directly as we are still looking for more engineers in hardware, software and firmware to join the WPC.
2254  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Why you shouldn't buy Hashfasts new "up to 800GH/s" "product" on: March 03, 2014, 08:19:17 AM
So I'm just wondering, is gmaxwell going to start calling out all of the overpromising/underdelivering, cough BFL cough, hardware companies or just the one's he has money invested in and ignore the one's who have invested money in advertising here. Because there are/have been a lot of them out there and I haven't seen this kind of response until now.

Regardless, this isn't all that surprising after my initial meetings with their team before they went public. Something was just off and then I found out they claimed that someone who is actually financially backing another company financed their operations. The dog and pony show was awesome, but when it came down to it, Lil Sebastian was/is late to the party still.

+1 Here here.

We need association or guild of reputable miner fabricators and developers. Here was my post for a guild.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282030.0
2255  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The Wasp Project Collective Information thread. on: March 02, 2014, 05:50:38 PM
I think that is correct as we are looking at metal core or even metal slugs with the chip solder direct on it acting as a direct heat sink getting rid of the vias entirely. We will have more on this as we get more info from the avionics fabricators. The bring up boards being made today in Seattle are bog standard pcb just a proof that the electrical is sound.

2256  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Best hardware seller on: March 02, 2014, 01:16:34 PM


Dogie, for example is a fly by night seller of used hardware out of his dorm room.  Any mining he does is because he is stuck with over-priced crap he couldn't pawn off on an unsuspecting victim.  And he is a paragon of integrity when compared to many of the other suppliers and retailers of ASICs.  Everyone lies, especially about schedule, and once they have your money you will NEVER hear from them again.



+1
2257  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: Introducing OneString miners on: March 02, 2014, 06:17:08 AM
Good Luck!


Quote
Communication:

Direct communication only please and by email; four email addresses have been setup: info@btcguru.eu, sales@btcguru.eu, support@btcguru.eu and rma@btcguru.eu. This will be the only way for us to reply to you in a timely manner. We will do our best to answer within 24 hours. If you have a tough question to answer we will let you know within 24 hours that it will take longer to answer your question.

I will do my best to reply to bitcointalk messages; still replying to email will have priority. We are located in the Netherlands and our timezone is CET, GMT+1.


The sale:

Shipment will start in the week of 17th of March(we haven’t received all additional items yet). If your order has not been shipped by March 31st, you can ask for a refund and you will receive it within 24 hours.

I know you'll be there or die trying to answer them all. Get a secretary! LoL. If that is not a solid description of how REFUNDS should go I do not know what is. Seems pretty clear this is a no nonsense arrangement. 17th is pretty decent. I think I talk some of the people at the Joe's Pool our Freimining Team might want a few Elites.
2258  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The Wasp Project Collective Information thread. on: March 02, 2014, 06:04:09 AM
TLDR Meeting Notes:

    1. Provisioning server will be ready when Wasp & Hive has working units to license.

    2. Wasp prototypes designs being reviewed at fabricator and we will be shipping boards out to FW/SW team as soon as they leave the fabricator.

    3. EE will be electrical testing a bring up board as soon as Monday or Tuesday. Full on prototype boards are likely ready after confirmation of these tests.

    4. Hive is ready for prototype run and pricing for limited production has been determined. Production of the beta Hive will happen next week.

    5. SW / FW will need the new boards to continue testing but significant progress has been made on our emulators.

    6. Website, Memberships, Licensing Fees, Share Exchange to use Open Cart and integrated into the website for consumers and WPC members.

    7. WPC Pool will be ready for a soft opening on Monday skinning will be continue and revisions to be added later.

    8. Licensing Fees will be finalized in a meeting on Tuesday or Wednesday.

    9. We will have a PR/Marketing and Administrative meeting on Friday March 7th. As more media is produced more information will be released via our website and this thread.

    10. We will continue working on the 90% completed BitFury Wasp while the A1 Wasp will get 99% of our effort. BitFury Wasps should follow soon on the heels of the A1.

    11. Cooling solutions need to be PCB and Firmware related first to lower these potential problems in the packaged limitations of the A1 chips and then we will find a real cooling solution that would help our Wasps maintain a constant temperature profile so that cycling is greatly reduced thus increasing the lifespan of the Miners.

2259  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The Wasp Project Collective Information thread. on: March 01, 2014, 04:00:45 PM
I am no EE. I am just trying to clarify in my own mind what has been happening with the A1 chip as it pertains to our designs. After months of meetings there is one thing that has always been a point of consciousness in a Wasp design for the A1, and will be there as well for the future chips,  is to keep careful control over the copper traces and the distances between the power going through the trace to the chip to keep impedance in check as much as we can. I can see that Bitmine and others have struggled a lot with this and that is certainly going to be an issue for any 28nm chip and we are going to have to do some tweaking obviously as everyone else has had to do with the PCB. There is a lot of power going through some pretty tiny traces. We are looking at the limits of the technology for the PCB and laying out copper because the pads on the A1 chip are particularly fine and we even caught an issue with that prior to the chips being made and reported that to Bitmine. We are particularly concerned that we are contacting military / avionics PCB makers to see what we can learn about the limits of our own design and may build a few boards for our prototypes that are little "overspec" to see if that may help. Maybe something coming out of those meetings might deliver a Wasp that can overcome some of the current limits imposed by the size of the traces.
2260  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: The Wasp Project Collective Information thread. on: March 01, 2014, 03:34:45 PM
Great progress guys , whats the prospects of overclocking the A1 on your existing design ?

Two factors for anyone overclocking any A1 designed board.

You must cool it.
The design must account for impedance and where possible in the design provide "controlled impedance".

At this point anyone that can overclock an A1 design, must provide both a substantial solution in terms of cooling and must address the issue with impedance in the traces.

We will know how well we have done on the issue of impedance after proper testing of the Wasp and it will probably need some or a lot of rework of the board to improve this characteristic.

We do not have a water block or immersion cooling solution yet and that is something we are tempted to resolve before the Black Arrow Minion Wasp is developed but we will see. So in short no this design won't be overclocking unless we have a cooling solution even if we get the impedance characteristics set perfectly, at least that is my current understanding and I will be listening carefully at the meeting in a few hours for any insight into this area. My feeling is any chips like the A1 or Minion etc will require these things to ever "overclock".

http://www.pcbdesign007.com/pages/zone.cgi?a=79869

Code:
What is Trace Impedance and Why Do We Care?
Wednesday, October 26, 2011 | Douglas Brooks, PhD.


Background

All wires and traces have impedance and offer a moderate impedance to the current flowing
from a driver. That seems like an astounding sentence given that (1) most wires and traces
are made from copper, and (2) copper has the second-lowest resistivity of any known element
(see Note 1.) Copper wires and traces seem almost like perfect conductors. After all, if you
place an ohm meter across a trace, the DC resistance is extremely low. We almost always
ignore it in circuit calculations.

But impedance, of course, is an AC characteristic. That is, impedance is related to frequency.
Resistance is not. So what we mean is that wires and traces present an AC impedance to the
drivers driving them (see Note 2.) It is generally true (but not always) that from a practical
sense the rise time of our signals must be relatively fast before this impedance becomes an issue.
But the fact that trace impedance exists at all must be taken as a given.

So when we hear the term “controlled impedance” trace, our first confusion might come from
the question: Why does a trace have any impedance at all? And if it does, what does it mean
that we somehow control it?

Nature of Trace Impedance

So how is it that a trace has a potentially significant AC impedance? Well, we can develop the
argument like this:

Every trace has series inductance. It is distributed along the trace and is inversely related to
the cross-sectional area of the trace. It is admittedly small, but it is non-zero. Therefore, for
fast enough rise times, the impedance it offers can be significant.

Every trace has capacitance between the trace and the return path of the signal on the trace,
wherever that return path might be. It is distributed (see Note 3) and is related to the width
(or diameter) of the trace and to the dielectric of the material(s) between the trace and the
signal return path. It is inversely related to the distance to the return path. It is admittedly small,
but it is non-zero. Therefore, for fast enough rise times, the impedance it offers can be significant.
It is the current path through this capacitance that allows current to flow as the signal propagates
along the trace (see Note 4.)

If we assume that any trace resistance is small in relation to this distributed inductance and
capacitance (a reasonable assumption unless we want to talk about lossy transmission lines),
then we see that every trace looks like a distributed LC circuit to the driver driving it. The (AC)
impedance of the trace derives from this distributed LC circuit (Note 5.)

Unless we have carefully designed the trace and its environment, this AC impedance is “uncontrolled.”
That is, the distributed inductance and capacitance can (and probably does) vary in value from point
to point along the trace. Therefore, the AC impedance varies from point to point along the trace.
In a great many cases this impedance is of no consequence and we ignore it.

There are a few cases where control over this impedance is important. For us board designers this is
usually when we want to make the trace look like a transmission line (so we can terminate it in its
characteristic impedance to avoid reflections.) When we do this we have designed a “controlled
impedance” trace or a “controlled impedance” transmission line. This is in contrast to the
“uncontrolled” situation referred to in point 4 above.

Controlled Impedance

“Controlled impedance” in this context means that the impedance is constant at every point along the trace.
The primary way we control the impedance of a wire or trace is to control its geometry and its environment.
There are three primary (and one secondary) aspects to the overall geometry that must be controlled:

The width of the trace
The spacing between the signal trace and the signal return path (This is one reason why we use planes,
it makes control over this spacing much easier.)
The relative dielectric coefficient of the material that surrounds the trace, and
(Secondarily) the thickness of the trace.
Coaxial cables are excellent examples of controlled impedance transmission lines where these variables
are tightly controlled. The old “twin lead” cables are also examples of controlled impedance transmission lines.

“Controlled impedance” does not imply that these aspects cannot change along the trace. It means that the
important relationship between them must not change. For example, if we change the width of a trace, then
at least one other aspect must also change in order to maintain the correct overall relationship between the four aspects (and therefore maintain a constant impedance).

Scaling

It is not often clear to designers that the overall scaling of a trace can change without changing its
impedance. For example, consider a microstrip trace with the following stackup:

W  = 10  mils
Th  = 1 oz.
H  = 12 mils above the plane
Er = 4.3 below the trace
Er = 1.0 (air) above the trace
Zo = 73.8 ohms

The characteristic impedance of this trace is 73.8 Ohms according to the Polar Instruments Quicksolver calculator (see Note 6).

The above trace will have the same impedance as one whose dimensions are exactly half:

W  = 5  mils
Th  = .5 oz.
H  = 6 mils above the plane
Er = 4.3 below the trace
Er = 1.0 (air) above the trace
Zo = 73.8 ohms

One way to envision why this is so is to look at the electromagnetic field surrounding each of these traces.
Mentor Graphic’s HyperLynx simulation tool is one tool that will give an “image” of the field surrounding
a trace. Such a field is shown in Figure 1.




Figure 1. Note the electromagnetic field lines around the traces. (Source: HyperLynx Simulation Tool)

Etc... you can read the whole article if you like but that is what our EE is going to be working on as soon as he has the Wasps back from the fab.

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