Especially if that 120 dba 'warning' sound goes off near people.

Heating by mining is only less efficient when you have gas central heating, and even then it just sets your mining electricity equivalent rates as elec - gas cost.

Its actually a pretty dull announcement, ASICMiner have shown just as good chips in their initial run and Bitmain has just as good chips now. Spondoolies should join the quartet if they do a next gen and I'm sure KNCMiner will have a good go at it. The fact that Bitfury is keeping quiet about the results should tell you all you need to know really - they're disappointed in the results.

No plans as of yet

Its unlikely this will ever get done even if its useful as there are lots of things still to do higher on the priority list. Your traffic stats are going to be literally negligible in terms of bandwidth with appropriate difficulty.

I'm unsure on the need to retain the need for a large voltage input range as the only real sources of affordable power are still 12V. A bit of a band to keep 12V 12V would be nice if you're running DC-DC else it'd suffer some of the variation that S5 has due to different PSUs having a different interpretation of what 12V is.

SP120s are a better balance of noise and performance. F12s are louder fans, even if they do move a bit more air.

When we're talking about fire, is it safe to assume that this one self extinguished?

Not from my end, no. They seem to have their heads down.

We've told you many times now that those hardware errors are more than fine. There is nothing wrong with your S5.

If you want to quote quotes then how about this one when I said I would fix their rating, dated before yours. You see, you're not happy if I don't change the rating. You're not happy if I do change the rating. That makes you a bully.

I think you missed the part where Technobit's rating (correctly) got trashed in the Feb update.

While I've got you here, lets also be clear on why you magically turned from wanting me to be part of your company to hating me and agreeing with anyone who seems to fit that agenda... I refused to invest in your company as it was only going to burn money for all involved - as it did - and I chose not to be a part of it.

Right?

Start to? You just replied to 50 lines of serious discussion spamming the word liar. Unlike you Gleb isn't a mindless attack dog, he can think for himself.

Yeah that $3 of traffic a month really makes the time and abuse worthwhile . I especially like spending my Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights being called a liar and a fraud.



Because it doesn't work that way around, you can't eat the cake before you have the cake.



BFL managed to sell $15-25M of 65nm vapour-ware, so unfortunately that's not true. There would be a need for anything along these lines if that were true.



When they admit it themselves in interviews and on these forums then it becomes a lot easier.



Not the entire line, but the initial chip run. On the latest notes thats still around $5M and is the biggest cost by far of the hardware. Its paid upfront and far ahead of generating any revenue on that money, where as its possible to bridge some of the other costs if you can be quick about it. If you don't have that $5M cash then you have to sell preorders or skip the generation like BFL seems to be.



Yes it is, exactly as it should be. The smaller the company the more likely that things can and will go wrong that leads to the crippling of the company. For example if a company of Technobit's size has 3 months of production delays or loses an entire batch - they're gone. Boop, gone, along with any change of customers with pending orders to get their money back. If a company the size of Bitfury did the same mistake they'd go "ah shucks" and open their vault of endless money and fix it.



You'd be surprised You have to remember the scale that Bitmain operates at in terms of # units, S5s outnumber SP20s multiple times over, many many times.



And that's something I've never disputed and I've made it very clear. If Spondoolies manages to raise the money then great, but as I said before they can't eat their cake (investment) before they get their cake (investment).



See above.



That's the definition of an acceptable batch, as per the below description. When you make 1000s of units a time it would just be dishonest to say "we can ship all this in one day" and so orders ship over a 2 week period. All the chips are in hand, all the components are in hand, designs are tested and manufactured in their 1000s. Its still a batch though and so Bitmain will likely only ever receive 16/20 as they've almost outgrown the ability to ship from true hand consistently.



As I explained a few pages back, this is a discrete rating system. Its exponentially better than a semi-continuous system as its much clearer and useable comparisons can be drawn. At the same time it increases the ability for some to bitch and moan because there has to be a line drawn somewhere - it is discrete after all. And here we have said bitching and moaning.



I explained this last time, but I'll also add this. S5 > 100x L1s.


What I'd like to take a minute to highlight as well is that what is going on here is nothing different than what BFL did / tried to do.

BFL wasn't happy with their rating so they bitched and moaned. Didn't work.
They then moved onto trying to bully me into changing their rating. Didn't work.
They then moved onto trying to silence the ratings by paying users to leaves 100s of negatives.

Spondoolies wasn't happy with their rating so they bitched and moaned. Didn't work.
They then moved onto trying to bully me into changing their rating. Didn't work.
They then moved onto trying to silence the ratings by denouncing the rating system as biased. Even though they were very happy with the same system only months ago when it benefited them.

I don't mean those who bought to resell, I mean those who bought, and are now selling Plenty of SP20s over here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=75.0

RoadStress is legit as anyone else on these boards for selling hardware, if he says he has them then he has them. If you're still unsure then use an escrow, pictures can be falsified or reused.

There are plenty still available in secondary markets. You'll still see plenty available for many months to come especially now the market is more stable.

You preordered 'batches' of SP10 significantly into the future, while not far from release of SP10 were already preordering SP30s and SP10 + SP30 kits.

1) Welcome again
2) So you're saying no SP30s or SP31s were preordered?
3) What is my own agenda? Being called a liar and a thief by a CEO while maintaining a free community resource sure sounds like fun (^_^)?
4) Do you not think if I was so corrupt and anti-Spondoolies that you claim that maybe your company wouldn't be so high? Why would I have put 15 companies below yours if I was specifically targeting your company amongst all the others?

So these are very different scenarios. I'll quote the criteria again so you know what I'm talking about.


What is essentially proposed here is that there are two conditions that must be true to be considered non preorder. The first is don't participate in preorders in the past or future within reasonable timescales. The exact time period is entirely subjective as its not stated specifically, but its not really a problem. The second condition is that the business model must be able to support preorders otherwise you get fishtailing. Imagine a company which between every preordered generation they had some left over stock they sold from stock. Are they a "no" preorder company even when everything is funded on preorders? That company only exists and can continue to exist by using preorders.

So now we've set out 2 conditions, as well as transition arrangements when one is moving from preorders to no preorders. Lets look at how it applies to the two companies.

Bitmain
Is there any evidence that Bitmain wants to be a preorder company? No. L1 was a bad decision and they knew that almost immediately. As soon as L1 was preordered, Bitmain lost its "no" preorders status.
When did they last take preorders? Novemberish, 3+ months ago.
Have customers been negatively impacted by preorders? No. When the scypt market failed, they pulled the plug to the benefit of the customer rather than locking people into negative prices. At the same time, they over refunded customers over how much they paid (105-110% IIRC). On top of that, because they were $ linked orders the customer made significantly more by being cancelled.
Were L1 preorders any significant amount of money? No. Compared to S3 S4 S5 C1 etc it was a meaningless amount.

So from that above, Bitmain satisfies the first condition. They held the penalty from preordering L1s for 4-5 months.

Does Bitmain have to prove that its business model can support a non-preorder model? No because we already know it can. That company is incredibly funded and can essentially do what its want. This is evidenced by HUGE non preorder 28nm runs and liquidity. There is no question that Bitmain can bring out products without needing preorders or investment.

Therefore Bitmain has satisfied both conditions and can be considered a non preorder company again.


Spondoolies
Is there any evidence that Spondoolies wants to be a preorder company? They say no, but I was troubled as to what happened in the first generation and its something I discussed with them at the time. Even when they were selling 'in hand' hardware via batches [fine], some batches were being sold 3-4 months in advance alongside future generation preorders. That's dangerous territory and that need for cash is worrisome.
When did they last take preorders? Probably Oct, but they were still delivering preordered units until December.
Have customers been negatively impacted by preorders? Yes. SP10's were preordered a sufficiently long period that there was unacceptable risk put on the consumer. SP30's were preordered far into the future and came in significantly under spec and late. SP31s came in under spec.

So from the above, Spondoolies is at best a boarderline satisfaction of the first condition. This is carried forward though and its considered to be a pass.

Spondoolies fails on the second condition. With all the want in the world, they just can't afford to run another generation without significant preorders, OR, significant investment. There is no evidence that their current business model can do preorders. You'll likely see in the coming months how this plays out. Essentially what this means is that Spondoolies needs to raise money, and its more than possible. That is why they're not simply swatted down and remain in a preorder score, they're given a transitional score which gives them the benefit of the doubt and the ability to prove they can raise the money.

Therefore Spondoolies has NOT satisfied both conditions and can not be considered a non preorder at this time.


And just for the record, I have no problem with discussing issues when its posed in this fashion. No one is name calling and an adult discussion is proposed. Now if there is an issue we can talk it out and work out what to do next for the better of the community.