Why do Atheists Hate Religion?

[organofcorti]

Look. I am not posting with the idea that I am out to defame you in any way. And I suspect that you are not out to do such to me.

The things that I explain in my posts, mostly are the simple explanations. You don't have to believe me, obviously. But if you are interested in some of it, there are libraries full of books and an Internet that has almost as much. In addition, there are my previous posts, many of which have links in them, or instructions about what to search on to see why I say what I do.

This posting is fun. And it is instructional for all who want to take part. But I am not doing it with the idea of writing a book to explain answers to your questions.

The problem is not that I"don't believe" you. It's true that I don't accept statements that I can show to be either invalid or unproveable.

The problem is that while you think that what you're posting is a simple explanation, I have been showing you that your underlying assumptions appear invalid and warrant further discussion.

Since I haven't seen you showing me anything via your posting, and since I haven't been posting any underlying assumptions that I have, your statements here are irrelevant for me, at least regarding the things I have posted.

That's the point - you don't even know what your underlying assumptions are, and I'm trying to find out if they are valid or not. If not valid, your entire argument disappears in a puff of logic.

Now, that's quite presumptuous of you, suggesting that I don't know what my underlying assumptions are.

No, again that's the point. In all of the discussions we had, there were questions you were unable to answer, and to which you were either unable or unwilling to say "I don't know". This being the case, it's fair to conclude that you either don't know or don't want to admit your underlying assumptions.

It seems that you can barely stay on point. Are you a mind reader that you know my underlying assumptions enough so that you can examine them? If you happen to know my underlying assumptions, are you so foolish that you think that you can judge their validity fairly?

Once again, I don't know what your underlying assumptions are because you either don't know or won't admit them. Also, the ability to read minds is fiction, not reality.

If your point is that I am wrong, perhaps I am.

My point is that neither of us knows if you are wrong because once challenged you just change the subject and insult whoever is the target du jour.

Actually, it is your challenge that changes the subject.

No, i was responding to you. No change in subject.

The on-topic part that I was doing was to show why atheists hate religion. You and your challenges without doing your research, shows how you would rather change the subject so that we move away from the proof that God exists, and away from showing atheists why they hate religion... which is... because religion is right, and not even atheists like being proven wrong.

Those statements are all completely unsupported. There is no proof -- certainly none posted by you, that atheists hate religions -- just more of the same unsubstantiated and unsupportable arguments that you consistently make.

If I'm wrong, please prove that as a class atheists hate all religions. No one has yet proved that. Religious people hate other religious people, that is clear.

Huh?!

Looks like we aren't getting anywhere.

Au contraire mon frere. You wanted to get back on to the thread's topic. I asked for proof that that as a class atheists hate all religions, since that what the thread title asks. If we're not getting anywhere its only because you *dont* want to get the thread back on topic.

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[organofcorti]

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason

This totally sounds like something BitNow would write. Has written.

[BADecker]

Au contraire mon frere. You wanted to get back on to the thread's topic. I asked for proof that that as a class atheists hate all religions, since that what the thread title asks. If we're not getting anywhere its only because you *dont* want to get the thread back on topic.

There you go again, with your standard old deception.   

[yugo23]

...omissis...

Those statements are all completely unsupported. There is no proof -- certainly none posted by you, that atheists hate religions -- just more of the same unsubstantiated and unsupportable arguments that you consistently make.

If I'm wrong, please prove that as a class atheists hate all religions. No one has yet proved that. Religious people hate other religious people, that is clear.

I proved that atheists hate religion, back on page 180/190.

Atheists hate religion because:
1. Atheism is a capital sin
    1.1. Sin of idolatry (1st commandement - "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" Ex 20:3)
    1.2. Punishment for idolatry is death (Golden Calf episode Ex 32:4)
2. You cannot love someone that want you dead.

(1) and (2) forms the thesis "atheists hate Religion".

Can you love your enemy organofcorti?


Best regards.

Sorry bud, your argument doesn't hold. It commits the logical fallacy of "the excluded middle".

Apart from the fact that (2) is clearly false (ever had children?) I experience more than just two emotions. If I don't love someone, it doesn't mean I hate them. Mostly I just ignore them.

I can see that: master in avoidance!

Quoting myself:

I never said the word logic once!

Logic is about philosophy not Faith.

If you don't hold to logic then don't present arguments which rely on logic.

I don't... I should... what?!? Express like a man you may even be treated like one!

Sorry. In simpler terms: Arguments require logic. Don't make arguments if you don't think logic is real.

Loving someone is not about logic is about Faith.

The definition of hate however is not "anyone I don't love". Most people have more complex emotions than just "love" and "hate".

Why you propose me complexity

Do you find the idea of having more than two emotions a very complex idea?

Man, you talk to someone without any logical reasoning skill. Of course feeling two emotions is really complex for him!

That's the main problem with bigots: they can't think anyother way but bipolar.

[valta4065]

Look. I am not posting with the idea that I am out to defame you in any way. And I suspect that you are not out to do such to me.

The things that I explain in my posts, mostly are the simple explanations. You don't have to believe me, obviously. But if you are interested in some of it, there are libraries full of books and an Internet that has almost as much. In addition, there are my previous posts, many of which have links in them, or instructions about what to search on to see why I say what I do.

This posting is fun. And it is instructional for all who want to take part. But I am not doing it with the idea of writing a book to explain answers to your questions.

The problem is not that I"don't believe" you. It's true that I don't accept statements that I can show to be either invalid or unproveable.

The problem is that while you think that what you're posting is a simple explanation, I have been showing you that your underlying assumptions appear invalid and warrant further discussion.

Since I haven't seen you showing me anything via your posting, and since I haven't been posting any underlying assumptions that I have, your statements here are irrelevant for me, at least regarding the things I have posted.

That's the point - you don't even know what your underlying assumptions are, and I'm trying to find out if they are valid or not. If not valid, your entire argument disappears in a puff of logic.

Now, that's quite presumptuous of you, suggesting that I don't know what my underlying assumptions are.

No, again that's the point. In all of the discussions we had, there were questions you were unable to answer, and to which you were either unable or unwilling to say "I don't know". This being the case, it's fair to conclude that you either don't know or don't want to admit your underlying assumptions.

It seems that you can barely stay on point. Are you a mind reader that you know my underlying assumptions enough so that you can examine them? If you happen to know my underlying assumptions, are you so foolish that you think that you can judge their validity fairly?

Once again, I don't know what your underlying assumptions are because you either don't know or won't admit them. Also, the ability to read minds is fiction, not reality.

If your point is that I am wrong, perhaps I am.

My point is that neither of us knows if you are wrong because once challenged you just change the subject and insult whoever is the target du jour.

Actually, it is your challenge that changes the subject.

No, i was responding to you. No change in subject.

The on-topic part that I was doing was to show why atheists hate religion. You and your challenges without doing your research, shows how you would rather change the subject so that we move away from the proof that God exists, and away from showing atheists why they hate religion... which is... because religion is right, and not even atheists like being proven wrong.

Those statements are all completely unsupported. There is no proof -- certainly none posted by you, that atheists hate religions -- just more of the same unsubstantiated and unsupportable arguments that you consistently make.

If I'm wrong, please prove that as a class atheists hate all religions. No one has yet proved that. Religious people hate other religious people, that is clear.

Huh?!

Looks like we aren't getting anywhere.

Au contraire mon frere. You wanted to get back on to the thread's topic. I asked for proof that that as a class atheists hate all religions, since that what the thread title asks. If we're not getting anywhere its only because you *dont* want to get the thread back on topic.

You know, maybe you're an atheist, but you're truly devoted to your fight against religion, no doubt about that. Cause spending so much energy on a debate with someone obviously disagreeing fundamentally with you is close to faith you know?

[valta4065]

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

I'm a savage: that's my clash... of Kings!

I can suggest you to read a book of my defunct auntie: "The search for Mad people".
It has never been translated into English, maybe I should do a translation for you: maybe after I find Faith and can argue with you.
"The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility."
- Pro 15:33


Best regards.

But... Aren't you devoted to the Lord and His Son?

I thought that you were a true Christian from the post I read from you.

[organofcorti]

Au contraire mon frere. You wanted to get back on to the thread's topic. I asked for proof that that as a class atheists hate all religions, since that what the thread title asks. If we're not getting anywhere its only because you *dont* want to get the thread back on topic.

There you go again, with your standard old deception.    

Deception? You were the one to want to get back on topic:

Actually, it is your challenge that changes the subject.

The on-topic part that I was doing was to show why atheists hate religion. You and your challenges without doing your research, shows how you would rather change the subject so that we move away from the proof that God exists, and away from showing atheists why they hate religion... which is... because religion is right, and not even atheists like being proven wrong.

The topic is: Why do Atheists hate Religion?
I asked: What proof is there that this is true?

What is deceptive? Pots and kettles, buddy.

[organofcorti]

You know, maybe you're an atheist, but you're truly devoted to your fight against religion, no doubt about that. Cause spending so much energy on a debate with someone obviously disagreeing fundamentally with you is close to faith you know?

What I care about is wooly thinking and people who try to deceive others by presenting logical fallacies as a real argument. Whether that's by someone who is religious or atheist or a sheep shagger, I care not.

If spending energy on a discussion is a religion, then logic is my religion and my God is maths, and people who make illogical or purposely misleading arguments are sinners who offend my religious sensibilities.

[BitNow]

That's the main problem with bigots: they can't think anyother way but bipolar.

[valta4065]

You know, maybe you're an atheist, but you're truly devoted to your fight against religion, no doubt about that. Cause spending so much energy on a debate with someone obviously disagreeing fundamentally with you is close to faith you know?

What I care about is wooly thinking and people who try to deceive others by presenting logical fallacies as a real argument. Whether that's by someone who is religious or atheist or a sheep shagger, I care not.

If spending energy on a discussion is a religion, then logic is my religion and my God is maths, and people who make illogical or purposely misleading arguments are sinners who offend my religious sensibilities.

Lol.
I didn't want to talk about religion but more about the fact that you truly have faith in your opponents to maybe one day change their opinion.  Which they won't obviously.

But I don't think they're are any logical fallacies in BADecker words. It's just that there is no logic at all that's all. Everything is fine until you corner him somewhere and he just ignores parts of your arguments that he can't deal with 

[organofcorti]

You know, maybe you're an atheist, but you're truly devoted to your fight against religion, no doubt about that. Cause spending so much energy on a debate with someone obviously disagreeing fundamentally with you is close to faith you know?

What I care about is wooly thinking and people who try to deceive others by presenting logical fallacies as a real argument. Whether that's by someone who is religious or atheist or a sheep shagger, I care not.

If spending energy on a discussion is a religion, then logic is my religion and my God is maths, and people who make illogical or purposely misleading arguments are sinners who offend my religious sensibilities.

Lol.
I didn't want to talk about religion but more about the fact that you truly have faith in your opponents to maybe one day change their opinion.  Which they won't obviously.

I continue the discussion for readers who might be mislead by people who have an agenda. I have no hope whatsoever of changing BADecker mind, or whatever BitNow uses to do his thinking, but I do hope that I can reveal their arguments to be the unsupportable opinions they are.

But I don't think they're are any logical fallacies in BADecker words. It's just that there is no logic at all that's all. Everything is fine until you corner him somewhere and he just ignores parts of your arguments that he can't deal with 

When he is trying to argue, the arguments regularly contain excluded middles, ad-hominem attacks and strawman arguments. Logic goes out the window only when that is pointed out to him.

[BitNow]

You know, maybe you're an atheist, but you're truly devoted to your fight against religion, no doubt about that. Cause spending so much energy on a debate with someone obviously disagreeing fundamentally with you is close to faith you know?

What I care about is wooly thinking and people who try to deceive others by presenting logical fallacies as a real argument. Whether that's by someone who is religious or atheist or a sheep shagger, I care not.

If spending energy on a discussion is a religion, then logic is my religion and my God is maths, and people who make illogical or purposely misleading arguments are sinners who offend my religious sensibilities.

Lol.
I didn't want to talk about religion but more about the fact that you truly have faith in your opponents to maybe one day change their opinion.  Which they won't obviously.

I continue the discussion for readers who might be mislead by people who have an agenda. I have no hope whatsoever of changing BADecker mind, or whatever BitNow uses to do his thinking, but I do hope that I can reveal their arguments to be the unsupportable opinions they are.

But I don't think they're are any logical fallacies in BADecker words. It's just that there is no logic at all that's all. Everything is fine until you corner him somewhere and he just ignores parts of your arguments that he can't deal with 

When he is trying to argue, the arguments regularly contain excluded middles, ad-hominem attacks and strawman arguments. Logic goes out the window only when that is pointed out to him.

Luckily I never said the word Logic once!

Think what would have happened if I had said the word Faith: would you had been started your personal war against religion?


Best regards.

[organofcorti]

Luckily I never said the word Logic once!

Think what would have happened if I had said the word Faith: would you had been started your personal war against religion?


Best regards.

I have no problem with faith. It's only when you try to present science as faith that I have a problem.

I have no need to start a war against anything, but if I ever do I know just the wannabe genocidal maniac to get in touch with.

[BitNow]

I have no problem with faith. It's only when you try to present science as faith that I have a problem.

Of course you have a problem: you have no Faith!

Science comes from Wisdom which comes from fearing the Lord.

You are trying to get Science without Wisdom: there is no Science in stupidity, you need to find Wisdom!

Wisdom comes from fearing the Lord so you need to start to have Faith.

I have no need to start a war against anything, but if I ever do I know just the wannabe genocidal maniac to get in touch with.

Instead arguing: starts to have Faith and you will find Wisdom and hence Science.

For any doubt or information feel free to ask.


Best regards.

[organofcorti]

Luckily I never said the word Logic once!

Think what would have happened if I had said the word Faith: would you had been started your personal war against religion?

Best regards.

I have no problem with faith. It's only when you try to present science as faith that I have a problem.

I have no need to start a war against anything, but if I ever do I know just the wannabe genocidal maniac to get in touch with.

I have no problem with faith. It's only when you try to present science as faith that I have a problem.

Of course you have a problem: you have no Faith!

You asked if I would start a war against religion because you mentioned faith.  I wrote I have no problem with faith, only with your characterisation of science. Now you write "Of course you have a problem: you have no Faith!". This is meaningless, unless you think that science == faith, which as I explained to you before is a contradiction in terms.

Science comes from Wisdom which comes from fearing the Lord.

You are trying to get Science without Wisdom: there is no Science in stupidity, you need to find Wisdom!

Wisdom comes from fearing the Lord so you need to start to have Faith.

You are clearly not a scientist. That is definitely *not* how the scientific method works.

I have no need to start a war against anything, but if I ever do I know just the wannabe genocidal maniac to get in touch with.

Instead arguing: starts to have Faith and you will find Wisdom and hence Science.
For any doubt or information feel free to ask.


Best regards.

You know, last time I fell for that "For any doubt or information feel free to ask." line, you totally took the piss. You didn't explain anything, you just went on with your weird "Be a man!" quote, which to you seems to mean "Don't ask questions!".

After the way you responded last time I asked you for information, why on earth did you even bother to post that? Did you really think I would again fall for your concern trolling?

Go on. tell me to "Be a man!". Get it out of your system. I know you want to.

[BitNow]

You asked if I would start a war against religion because you mentioned faith.  I wrote I have no problem with faith, only with your characterisation of science. Now you write "Of course you have a problem: you have no Faith!". This is meaningless, unless you think that science == faith, which as I explained to you before is a contradiction in terms.

You are not following my line: why?

You are clearly not a scientist. That is definitely *not* how the scientific method works.

I never talked about scentific method.

You know, last time I fell for that "For any doubt or information feel free to ask." line, you totally took the piss. You didn't explain anything, you just went on with your weird "Be a man!" quote, which to you seems to mean "Don't ask questions!".

After the way you responded last time I asked you for information, why on earth did you even bother to post that? Did you really think I would again fall for your concern trolling?

Go on. tell me to "Be a man!". Get it out of your system. I know you want to.

That is not trolling: that it search for Wisdom.

Quoting myself:

Instead arguing: starts to have Faith and you will find Wisdom and hence Science.

Best regards.

[valta4065]

I have no problem with faith. It's only when you try to present science as faith that I have a problem.

Of course you have a problem: you have no Faith!

Science comes from Wisdom which comes from fearing the Lord.

You are trying to get Science without Wisdom: there is no Science in stupidity, you need to find Wisdom!

Wisdom comes from fearing the Lord so you need to start to have Faith.

I have no need to start a war against anything, but if I ever do I know just the wannabe genocidal maniac to get in touch with.

Instead arguing: starts to have Faith and you will find Wisdom and hence Science.

For any doubt or information feel free to ask.


Best regards.

Dude...

The Lord in His wisdom never asked humans to be ignorant. Having faith in Him and His projects doesn't mean you can't also try to understand the universe! Science and faith have nothing to do in common! And they're not incompatible!

God might saves us after the end of our life, at least I have faith (faith, not proof) that He will. But for our life on Earth, is in our hand and ours only. God didn't even save His son so why would He care about our actions until He comes to judge us?

[BitNow]

Dude...

The Lord in His wisdom never asked humans to be ignorant. Having faith in Him and His projects doesn't mean you can't also try to understand the universe! Science and faith have nothing to do in common! And they're not incompatible!

God might saves us after the end of our life, at least I have faith (faith, not proof) that He will. But for our life on Earth, is in our hand and ours only. God didn't even save His son so why would He care about our actions until He comes to judge us?

"Wise words"

I understand now that I can live my life as an ignorant but if I want to know Science I must be Wise and Fear the Lord.

Science and Faith have Wisdom in common that is achieved by fearing the Lord.
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
- Pro 1:7
"For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding."
- Pro 2:6
"When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;"
- Pro 2:10
"The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility."
- Pro 15:33
"The fear of the Lord tendeth to life: and he that hath it shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil."
- Pro 19:23
"By humility and the fear of the Lord are riches, and honour, and life."
- Pro 22:4

The problem here is the word Science translated with the word Knowledge in English. In italian language the word Science is used instead of the word knowledge.

The word Science is used only 2 times in the Bible (KJV - King James Version): in Daniel 1:4 and Timothy 6:20. In those 2 verses the word in italian was Wisdom and not Science. That explains why I'm stuck with Wisdom and not Science.

Another trick of the anglosaxons?!? The good old Queen did it again?!?

That is strange that the word Science has been translated into English with knowledge: knowledge and Science has 2 different meanings.

You have lost some tradition (latin tradition) in this translation


Best regards.

[organofcorti]

You asked if I would start a war against religion because you mentioned faith.  I wrote I have no problem with faith, only with your characterisation of science. Now you write "Of course you have a problem: you have no Faith!". This is meaningless, unless you think that science == faith, which as I explained to you before is a contradiction in terms.

You are not following my line: why?

That makes no sense. I'd ask you to explain, but I know you'll just use it as an opportunity to ask about men and what they are again.

You are clearly not a scientist. That is definitely *not* how the scientific method works.

I never talked about scentific method.

You talked about science and the scientific method is part of that, which you would know if you understood even a little bit about science. Have you ever even met a scientist?

You know, last time I fell for that "For any doubt or information feel free to ask." line, you totally took the piss. You didn't explain anything, you just went on with your weird "Be a man!" quote, which to you seems to mean "Don't ask questions!".

After the way you responded last time I asked you for information, why on earth did you even bother to post that? Did you really think I would again fall for your concern trolling?

Go on. tell me to "Be a man!". Get it out of your system. I know you want to.

That is not trolling: that it search for Wisdom.

You do not search for wisdom. Your responses just consist of "Be a man!" and "Faith is science" or vice versa. That's not a search for any kind of wisdom or truth. It's not even a search at all. You search for nothing except people that agree with you.

Quoting myself:

Instead arguing: starts to have Faith and you will find Wisdom and hence Science.

Best regards.

Quoting myself (in 01/2016)

I don't even pretend to understand that last comment, but all I'm doing is attempting to have a debate with you. All you're doing is avoiding making sense. I have to wonder why? Are you a secret atheist trying to make religious people look disingenuous?

[valta4065]

Dude...

The Lord in His wisdom never asked humans to be ignorant. Having faith in Him and His projects doesn't mean you can't also try to understand the universe! Science and faith have nothing to do in common! And they're not incompatible!

God might saves us after the end of our life, at least I have faith (faith, not proof) that He will. But for our life on Earth, is in our hand and ours only. God didn't even save His son so why would He care about our actions until He comes to judge us?

"Wise words"

I understand now that I can live my life as an ignorant but if I want to know Science I must be Wise and Fear the Lord.

Science and Faith have Wisdom in common that is achieved by fearing the Lord.
"The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction."
- Pro 1:7
"For the Lord giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding."
- Pro 2:6
"When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul;"
- Pro 2:10
"The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility."
- Pro 15:33
"The fear of the Lord tendeth to life: and he that hath it shall abide satisfied; he shall not be visited with evil."
- Pro 19:23
"By humility and the fear of the Lord are riches, and honour, and life."
- Pro 22:4

The problem here is the word Science translated with the word Knowledge in English. In italian language the word Science is used instead of the word knowledge.

The word Science is used only 2 times in the Bible (KJV - King James Version): in Daniel 1:4 and Timothy 6:20. In those 2 verses the word in italian was Wisdom and not Science. That explains why I'm stuck with Wisdom and not Science.

Another trick of the anglosaxons?!? The good old Queen did it again?!?

That is strange that the word Science has been translated into English with knowledge: knowledge and Science has 2 different meanings.

You have lost some tradition (latin tradition) in this translation


Best regards.

Good precision on translation. No doubt a great part of the sense of the sacred texts has been lost through the different languages.

But I deny this part of the sacred texts. Why should I fear the Lord? The Lord is love and forgiveness. If I am wrong He will forgive my mistakes. All I have to do is to be the best man I can that's all.