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Author Topic: Why do Atheists Hate Religion?  (Read 897422 times)
BitNow
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January 19, 2016, 03:38:39 PM
 #3981


For me a god is a supernatural being existing solely thanks to the faith of human beings. So gods exist as long as some humans have faith in them. Not sure it's the same definition for you.


I just realised that my definition was wrong: God in italian is Dio which is DI+O (not D+IO, no "I" first singular personal pronoun here).

So...

Could you define the word God?

"I don't know."
This question is not in the right place.
This question shouldn't be there.


Best regards.


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January 19, 2016, 03:41:28 PM
 #3982


Purpose indicate a meaning an objective that a group of people have in regarding to something (deity, money, health, other...).

Atheists don't believe in God but they don't have a faith: so the word purpose has no meaning to them.


You know that. I know that. Try explaining that to BADecker.

Look, even if atheist all thought that the universe doesn't have a purpose - not all of them think this way -

Yes, they do. If the universe has a purpose it must have a creator. If you believe in a creator, you're not atheist.

Does an atheist do anything in the universe? Does an atheist dream? Does he make plans? Does he use the things of the universe? For him the universe has a purpose. If it didn't, he would go off and commit suicide out of despair. If he didn't commit suicide out of despair, and the universe didn't have a purpose for him - at least in his own mind - he would have to be a vegetable.

An atheist views himself as god, although he may not recognize that he is doing so. Since he doesn't know much about himself - the way-down-deep human self that he is - yet he believes that he knows, he has a personal religion going.

Smiley

We are talking about different things - the Universe having a purpose, and making your life have a purpose.
So you think that a person can have purpose outside of the universe? Since the person is in the universe, and the purpose is in the person, purpose is also in the universe.

Furthermore, since people are a product of the universe, and since people have enough intelligence that they can have purpose, the universe that made them has purpose as well. Why? Because nowhere in the universe have we found that complexity is ever made by something that is less complexity. On the contrary. Everything we have found shows that what is produced is at least slightly, bun mostly largely, degraded from what has made it (entropy).

This means that not only does the universe have purpose, but it has intelligence, as well. Such intelligence fits the definition that we have of God. Since an atheist denies God in the face of the fact that we know God exists, the atheist has a religion for himself.

Grant you, this is a simple explanation. If you flesh it out, you will see that it is entirely accurate.



An atheist believes his or her life can have a purpose, while the universe does not have a purpose.
How about this example. There are some very small monkeys in the world. We make some of them into pets.

Imagine that you have a small, pet monkey in your hand. The monkey has a peanut in his hand. Do you not also have the peanut in your hand? The universe has purpose, even if it is only your purpose.



Since one's life is not identical to "the universe", it is possible for one's life to have purpose, but not ones universe.

In the theories of the mega-universe, where there are parallel universes that all occupy the same space, what you say might be true. Why? There is theory that the spirit/soul/identity of each person resides in a separate universe from the spirit/soul/identity of every other person, even though it is expressed on earth in a body that occupies the same universe as all other human bodies.

If this, or something like this, is the fact, it is possible that there are some universes that don't have purpose (of course, only if universes don't have purpose of themselves... a thing that we don't know). Why? Because there might be some people who don't have purpose. Thus, their universe might not have purpose, as well.

As you can see from all this that I have written in this post, atheism is almost definitely a religion.

Smiley

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January 19, 2016, 03:51:16 PM
 #3983


I wonder what kind of institution m0gliE is living in that they allow him to get on Bitcointalk, but they don't allow him to use an online dictionary.

Smiley

Whatever the dictionary, there is actually at least 4 definitions of God. Not that I can't look into a dictionary, more that I wanted HIS definition of God. And you perfectly know that. Just try to discredit me by being sarcastic.

Here is my definition for example:  a god is a supernatural being existing solely thanks to the faith of human beings.

Not your common definition no?

Personally, I'll stick to the dictionary definitions. However, your definition is inaccurate. If you think out my first response to organofcorti in my previous post in this thread, you will see that God exists, scientifically. You don't have to be an agnostic regarding the existence of God any longer.

Smiley

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January 19, 2016, 03:58:05 PM
 #3984


Personally, I'll stick to the dictionary definitions. However, your definition is inaccurate. If you think out my first response to organofcorti in my previous post in this thread, you will see that God exists, scientifically. You don't have to be an agnostic regarding the existence of God any longer.

Smiley

That was Scientific Socialism (AKA: Communism).

Communism is the exact opposite of Faith (God).
You can see that by the fact that the last Communist standing nation (China) is promoting atheism as Country's "Religion".
Please look also this thread for more info on what is happening in China right now to Christian's Churches.
Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1116405.0


Best regards.


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January 19, 2016, 04:06:24 PM
 #3985

So you think that a person can have purpose outside of the universe? Since the person is in the universe, and the purpose is in the person, purpose is also in the universe.

Furthermore, since people are a product of the universe, and since people have enough intelligence that they can have purpose, the universe that made them has purpose as well. Why? Because nowhere in the universe have we found that complexity is ever made by something that is less complexity. On the contrary. Everything we have found shows that what is produced is at least slightly, bun mostly largely, degraded from what has made it (entropy).

This means that not only does the universe have purpose, but it has intelligence, as well. Such intelligence fits the definition that we have of God. Since an atheist denies God in the face of the fact that we know God exists, the atheist has a religion for himself.

Grant you, this is a simple explanation. If you flesh it out, you will see that it is entirely accurate.

You definitely don't understand anything.
First you confuse complexity and intelligence. It has nothing to see.

"Everything we have found shows that what is produced is at least slightly, bun mostly largely, degraded from what has made it (entropy)."
Totally wrong. It just means that energy naturally splits. Again you confuse intelligence to energy but they are not linked.

"This means that not only does the universe have purpose, but it has intelligence, as well."
Wroooooooooooooooooooong...
So has we're made out of startdust, stars have intelligence? And a purpose too? Cause it's from that that we come... And as we evolved from monkeys, it means that monkeys have a purpose too?

You're not logical dude.

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January 19, 2016, 04:12:19 PM
 #3986


Personally, I'll stick to the dictionary definitions. However, your definition is inaccurate. If you think out my first response to organofcorti in my previous post in this thread, you will see that God exists, scientifically. You don't have to be an agnostic regarding the existence of God any longer.

Smiley

That was Scientific Socialism (AKA: Communism).

Communism is the exact opposite of Faith (God).
You can see that by the fact that the last Communist standing nation (China) is promoting atheism as Country's "Religion".
Please look also this thread for more info on what is happening in China right now to Christian's Churches.
Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1116405.0


Best regards.

Not only is what you write not clear enough to understand what you mean, but also, you are probably entirely wrong.

Smiley

Don't be afraid to donate Bitcoin >>> 1JDJotyxZLFF8akGCxHeqMkD4YrrTmEAwz !
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January 19, 2016, 04:15:57 PM
 #3987


Not only is what you write not clear enough to understand what you mean, but also, you are probably entirely wrong.

Smiley

Why did you say that?


Best regards.


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January 19, 2016, 04:23:14 PM
 #3988

So you think that a person can have purpose outside of the universe? Since the person is in the universe, and the purpose is in the person, purpose is also in the universe.

Furthermore, since people are a product of the universe, and since people have enough intelligence that they can have purpose, the universe that made them has purpose as well. Why? Because nowhere in the universe have we found that complexity is ever made by something that is less complexity. On the contrary. Everything we have found shows that what is produced is at least slightly, bun mostly largely, degraded from what has made it (entropy).

This means that not only does the universe have purpose, but it has intelligence, as well. Such intelligence fits the definition that we have of God. Since an atheist denies God in the face of the fact that we know God exists, the atheist has a religion for himself.

Grant you, this is a simple explanation. If you flesh it out, you will see that it is entirely accurate.

You definitely don't understand anything.
First you confuse complexity and intelligence. It has nothing to see.
Actually, you don't understand anything well enough to understand whether or not I understand anything. This is proven by the fact that I wasn't mixing intelligence and complexity, but you seem to not be able to fathom this.


"Everything we have found shows that what is produced is at least slightly, bun mostly largely, degraded from what has made it (entropy)."
Totally wrong. It just means that energy naturally splits. Again you confuse intelligence to energy but they are not linked.
You have a long way to go if you don't know that entropy includes things wearing out and getting old and dying, as well as everything in the universe attempting to equalize throughout all time and space. Simple evaporation is a form of entropy-like operation.


"This means that not only does the universe have purpose, but it has intelligence, as well."
Wroooooooooooooooooooong...
So has we're made out of startdust, stars have intelligence? And a purpose too? Cause it's from that that we come... And as we evolved from monkeys, it means that monkeys have a purpose too?

You're not logical dude.

No, it is you that is not logical.

Again, consider that intelligence exists. What made it? The only way that complex things are made in the universe is that something more complex caused them to exist as they do. This is evident from the complex machinery that people make. People are way more complex than the machinery that they make. So, whatever caused people and their intelligence to exist, must be way more complex and intelligent than people. Such intelligence fits the definition of the word "God."

Wake up.

Smiley

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January 19, 2016, 04:26:01 PM
 #3989

So you think that a person can have purpose outside of the universe? Since the person is in the universe, and the purpose is in the person, purpose is also in the universe.

Furthermore, since people are a product of the universe, and since people have enough intelligence that they can have purpose, the universe that made them has purpose as well. Why? Because nowhere in the universe have we found that complexity is ever made by something that is less complexity. On the contrary. Everything we have found shows that what is produced is at least slightly, bun mostly largely, degraded from what has made it (entropy).

This means that not only does the universe have purpose, but it has intelligence, as well. Such intelligence fits the definition that we have of God. Since an atheist denies God in the face of the fact that we know God exists, the atheist has a religion for himself.

Grant you, this is a simple explanation. If you flesh it out, you will see that it is entirely accurate.

You definitely don't understand anything.
First you confuse complexity and intelligence. It has nothing to see.
Actually, you don't understand anything well enough to understand whether or not I understand anything. This is proven by the fact that I wasn't mixing intelligence and complexity, but you seem to not be able to fathom this.


"Everything we have found shows that what is produced is at least slightly, bun mostly largely, degraded from what has made it (entropy)."
Totally wrong. It just means that energy naturally splits. Again you confuse intelligence to energy but they are not linked.
You have a long way to go if you don't know that entropy includes things wearing out and getting old and dying, as well as everything in the universe attempting to equalize throughout all time and space. Simple evaporation is a form of entropy-like operation.


"This means that not only does the universe have purpose, but it has intelligence, as well."
Wroooooooooooooooooooong...
So has we're made out of startdust, stars have intelligence? And a purpose too? Cause it's from that that we come... And as we evolved from monkeys, it means that monkeys have a purpose too?

You're not logical dude.

No, it is you that is not logical.

Again, consider that intelligence exists. What made it? The only way that complex things are made in the universe is that something more complex caused them to exist as they do. This is evident from the complex machinery that people make. People are way more complex than the machinery that they make. So, whatever caused people and their intelligence to exist, must be way more complex and intelligent than people. Such intelligence fits the definition of the word "God."

Wake up.

Smiley

Do you believe that aliens exists?


Best regards.


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January 19, 2016, 04:26:20 PM
 #3990


Not only is what you write not clear enough to understand what you mean, but also, you are probably entirely wrong.

Smiley

Why did you say that?


Best regards.

Because I felt that it was  a reasonable thing to say.   Smiley

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January 19, 2016, 04:28:49 PM
 #3991


Not only is what you write not clear enough to understand what you mean, but also, you are probably entirely wrong.

Smiley

Why did you say that?


Best regards.

Because I felt that it was  a reasonable thing to say.   Smiley

Right and Wrong does not relate to sensations, they relate to reason.

Why did you say that?


Best regards.


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January 19, 2016, 04:29:53 PM
 #3992

Do you believe that aliens exists?


Best regards.

Actually, we both know that angels are aliens.   Smiley

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January 19, 2016, 04:32:01 PM
 #3993

Do you believe that aliens exists?


Best regards.

Actually, we both know that angels are aliens.   Smiley

That a strong statement: I'm open to the possibility that aliens do exists, I'm don't have proofs of that.

What I'm sure is that if I will restart again this day it would be different.


Best regards.


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BADecker
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January 19, 2016, 04:33:24 PM
 #3994


Not only is what you write not clear enough to understand what you mean, but also, you are probably entirely wrong.

Smiley

Why did you say that?


Best regards.

Because I felt that it was  a reasonable thing to say.   Smiley

Right and Wrong does not relate to sensations, they relate to reason.

Why did you say that?


Best regards.

Emotions are sensations... at least to some extent. That's why almost everybody posts in this forum. The only other reason might be that some people are being paid to troll. But emotions and sensations are even connected to trolling for money.

Smiley

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irfan_pak10
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January 19, 2016, 04:33:59 PM
 #3995

Do you believe that aliens exists?


Best regards.

Actually, we both know that angels are aliens.   Smiley

I think than you should have Won this Prize of 100 million $

Stephen Hawking announces $100 million hunt for alien life : https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/07/20/stephen-hawking-announces-100-million-hunt-for-alien-life/



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BADecker
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January 19, 2016, 04:34:53 PM
 #3996

Do you believe that aliens exists?


Best regards.

Actually, we both know that angels are aliens.   Smiley

That a strong statement: I'm open to the possibility that aliens do exists, I'm don't have proofs of that.

What I'm sure is that if I will restart again this day it would be different.


Best regards.

Sorry.

I thought for sure someone with your religious background would certainly understand that angels exist. Presumptive of me, right?

Smiley

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January 19, 2016, 04:36:23 PM
 #3997

Do you believe that aliens exists?


Best regards.

Actually, we both know that angels are aliens.   Smiley

I think than you should have Won this Prize of 100 million $

Stephen Hawking announces $100 million hunt for alien life : https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/07/20/stephen-hawking-announces-100-million-hunt-for-alien-life/



Angels are not the kind of aliens Hawking is looking for.   Smiley

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mOgliE
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January 19, 2016, 07:01:33 PM
 #3998


No, it is you that is not logical.

Again, consider that intelligence exists. What made it? The only way that complex things are made in the universe is that something more complex caused them to exist as they do. This is evident from the complex machinery that people make. People are way more complex than the machinery that they make. So, whatever caused people and their intelligence to exist, must be way more complex and intelligent than people. Such intelligence fits the definition of the word "God."

Wake up.

Smiley

Ok I was a bit upset in my last post so I'll answer you in a more calm and polite manner. Sorry for my previous behaviour.

I understand what you're saying. So I have an easy example to prove you're wrong:

What are you made of? Atoms. Elements, chimical elements. Where do they come from? Stars.

How are they made? It's EXTREMELY SIMPLE! An incredible amount of mass causes a huge pressure in a star and leads Helium and Hydrogene to fuse to form more complex elements.

So here you are. It's wrong to assume that "The only way that complex things are made in the universe is that something more complex caused them to exist as they do." Everything is made from the smallest and most simple elements existing: Helium and Hydrogene.

As I said, you're confusing energy and complexity, for sure anything created contains less energy than what it's made of. That's the base of entropy. But it can be far more complex!

So as simple things can be combined in order to create complex ones, the rest of your reasonning is no longer true.

 Smiley

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January 19, 2016, 07:33:25 PM
Last edit: January 19, 2016, 07:53:15 PM by BADecker
 #3999


No, it is you that is not logical.

Again, consider that intelligence exists. What made it? The only way that complex things are made in the universe is that something more complex caused them to exist as they do. This is evident from the complex machinery that people make. People are way more complex than the machinery that they make. So, whatever caused people and their intelligence to exist, must be way more complex and intelligent than people. Such intelligence fits the definition of the word "God."

Wake up.

Smiley

Ok I was a bit upset in my last post so I'll answer you in a more calm and polite manner. Sorry for my previous behaviour.
Thank you for your polite understanding.



I understand what you're saying. So I have an easy example to prove you're wrong:

What are you made of? Atoms. Elements, chimical elements. Where do they come from? Stars.
Except that it is not known that the elements that we are made of comes from stars. This is at best theory. It may be only assumption.


How are they made? It's EXTREMELY SIMPLE! An incredible amount of mass causes a huge pressure in a star and leads Helium and Hydrogene to fuse to form more complex elements.
Again, this is at best theory. When you look at the details of the Electric Universe Theory, you will find that electric universe details fit what we observe far better than fusion universe details do. See http://electric-cosmos.org/indexOLD.htm. The fact that fusion universe is "broadcasted" a lot more than electric universe, simply makes fusion universe more well known... not necessarily true.

In addition, while I don't have the links, there are several experiments that have been done, and videos that have been made of them, that show that the "rivers" on Mars are not water or liquid rivers. Rather, they match almost perfectly electric arc chasms, made by what would probably have been static electricity passed between near-world fly-bys.


So here you are. It's wrong to assume that "The only way that complex things are made in the universe is that something more complex caused them to exist as they do." Everything is made from the smallest and most simple elements existing: Helium and Hydrogene.

As I said, you're confusing energy and complexity, for sure anything created contains less energy than what it's made of. That's the base of entropy. But it can be far more complex!

So as simple things can be combined in order to create complex ones, the rest of your reasonning is no longer true.

 Smiley

The complexity of complexity is indeed beyond our thinking for its complexity. We don't know for a fact that everything was made originally from hydrogen and/or helium. That is theory or assumption.

We don't know the complexity of the forces that combine simple things into complex things. The simple conversion of hydrogen into helium (fusion) is something that, in the past, we needed the complexity of an atomic explosion to accomplish. When we do it these days, in the laboratory, in extremely tiny operations, we need a whole lot of complex equipment to do it.

We have no factual evidence of simple to complex conversion without something more complex causing it to happen.

Smiley

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January 19, 2016, 07:53:02 PM
 #4000


The complexity of complexity is indeed beyond our thinking for its complexity. We don't know for a fact that everything was made originally from hydrogen and/or helium. That is theory or assumption.

We don't know the complexity of the forces that combine simple things into complex things. The simple conversion of hydrogen into helium (fusion) is something that, in the past, we needed the complexity of an atomic explosion to accomplish. When we do it these days, in the laboratory, in extremely tiny operations, we need a whole lot of complex equipment to do it.

We have no factual evidence of simple to complex conversion without something more complex causing it to happen.

Smiley

Oooooooooooook...
Well if you go this way we can't discuss anymore ^^

Of course it's a theory, but it's a very solid one. It explains everything we know. It might not be true, in fact the whole science we know is probably wrong, but it explains everything we observe CURRENTLY.

You're actually denying the assumption that Helium and Hydrogene are fusing together in the stars. But spectroscopy allow use to know in a very precise way stars composition. And this theory may be just an assumption, but it explains EXTREMELY WELL the composition of the universe as we observe it. It explains it so well that it is now a worldwide consensus.

I have neither the time nor the energy right now to look deeper in the article you provide about another theory than fusion. You may be right. As I said, we'll probably prove that what we know is wrong in a few decades, that's the main purpose of physic sciences: to be demonstrated wrong and then go further. Maybe your theory explains better the lithium mystery I don't know.

But the theory I'm providing is without any doubt the actual consensus at the moment. So it is a proof in my point of view.
If you need another example of simple things creating something complex then just think about life and evolution: we come from monkeys (not exactly I know but you know what I mean xD), so the complex comes from the simple. Same for most chemical reaction involving fusion, or complex formation.

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