IOTA - Unmoderated thread

[altcoinUK]

You are ignoring my expert review of Iota's consensus algorithm. That is fine with me.

Of course he does. Any opinions that point out the infeasibility of his business plan and in fact the lack of business plan or point out flaws in design and implementation are interruptions in the pump and dump process, and therefore since they unable to provide counter arguments they have to ignore them. Still, your opinion is very important as the target audience - who supposed to buy into the P&D once the coin is on the exchanges - could read your expert review.

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[Come-from-Beyond]

Well, it's not really a fight, not even a dislike from my part...

What about answering those simple questions instead of big walls of philosophical texts? Or that was a lie like in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854280.msg13530000#msg13530000 case?

[cryptohunter2]

Hasn't anonymint even celebrated iota's design? even though he has said there were some flaws in it.

How can this be if he can't code at all?

Not saying it is or isn't going to turn out a bad investment. Just interested in how it is possible this guy has not tech skills but can create something anonymint says is impressive in effort but has some flaws.

I want to state i don't have any iota but was regretting missing the pre sale a little bit.

[TPTB_need_war]

AltcoinUK, the problem is that most readers do not understand the CAP theorem conceptualization of consensus problem nor will most users understand that Iota is based on a mathematical model that has to be enforced on all payers on their choices of which branch to attach their txns and on recipients in terms of what recipients compute is a probabilistically confirmed txn. If the Monte Carlo math can be enforced then consensus should converge, but there is no way to force decentralized actors to follow one math model when the system can't enforce it without centralization. Thus I stated Iota/DAG only converges if the system centralizes. As opposed to Satoshi's PoW which always converges because of the longest chain rule.

So it is extremely difficult to take an aggressive position when most readers won't even comprehend. Why is a speculator going to trust my assessment when they can't understand or don't have the attention span to digest my 33 page thread on Decentralization. Also I haven't written a white paper yet, so all that is not well formalized.

As for the JINN labs and trinary logic aspect, I am not involving myself in that at all. I have no interest in hardware other than to read specification sheets for when I am writing assembly language code.

I think perhaps you've over personalized your friction with CfB. I understand you feel he is willingly intent on being part of a scam. The way I see it is David is probably the scammer (if there is a scam and I am not asserting there is bcz I haven't studied the JINN aspect) and CfB is an astute developer who is trying to earn money while working on something interesting (so he let's David run the scammy parts and he focuses on the technology). You seem to think CfB has a long history of being involved in pumping half-assed technology (my presumption of your opinion of Nxt) where you claim insiders profited at the expense of the greater fools. Yes David threatened me with legal action, but he can't touch me. I am some guy with no money who lives in Mindanao. His attorney will advise him that they can't sue to draw blood from turnip. Besides offering my opinion in a forum is not slander. I am just not interested in adding more fights to my plate. I am interested in coding and doing my own project. If I waste my time by creating more fights, I will never accomplish anything.

Nxt got a lot speculators excited about investing in altcoins. For anyone who ever does produce an altcoin that has the adoption and capability of overtaking Bitcoin, then that interest in altcoin stoked by Nxt is perhaps actually helpful.

In other words, I think we have to accept speculation markets are what they are, an imperfect Wild West system of stimulating R&D.

I haven't been able to pin anything on CfB specifically that would tell me he is nothing but a douche bag scammer. I rather see him more as developer trying to find a way to earn money in crypto. My ethics and standard for my work is higher. I have set the bar that I have to achieve via real adoption, not speculation alone. But I can't expect that every person is as crazy risk taker as I am.

[altcoinUK]

Well, it's not really a fight, not even a dislike from my part...

What about answering those simple questions instead of big walls of philosophical texts? Or that was a lie like in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854280.msg13530000#msg13530000 case?

I understand your reaction. All scammers in my extensive experience in dealing with frauds (Moolah, Bitbay, Banxshare) acted exactly the same way as you do. You are in stage one in the scam busting process, and therefore your trolling of this thread is a very natural reaction. You will come around, and you will feel that you must answer the questions about your P&D, the lack of business plan and the inevitable bagholders at the end of the process.

[runall]

@altcoinUK

You're just a speculator who is afraid of revolutionary technology such as IOTA. It is resistant against Quantum computers.

Quantum computers are a big problem to the existence of bitcoin and other altcoin.

As a speculator, who sells "many years" on the stock exchange you are afraid for your investments.

Your goal is not to warn us (Iota community), and save your speculation. 

You must not be afraid of IOTA, but Quantum computers. 

IOTA is not not the enemy of bitcoin.

And by the way, CfB and other Iota devs has years of solid repatation, also in Nxt community. You can only criticize because you are afraid.

[TPTB_need_war]

...IOTA. It is resistant against Quantum computers.

Quantum computers are a big problem to the existence of bitcoin and other altcoin.

I noted that aspect of Iota's proof-of-work (hash-based) design is clever. Another example to AltcoinUK that Iota has some important ideas. But it doesn't change my conclusion that the consensus algorithm can't converge (will diverge) without centralizing the system.

Note Iota's transaction signatures are not quantum resistant, because they use ECC.

[Come-from-Beyond]

What about answering those simple questions instead of big walls of philosophical texts? Or that was a lie like in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854280.msg13530000#msg13530000 case?

I understand your reaction. All scammers in my extensive experience in dealing with frauds (Moolah, Bitbay, Banxshare) acted exactly the same way as you do. You are in stage one in the scam busting process, and therefore your trolling of this thread is a very natural reaction. You will come around, and you will feel that you must answer the questions about your P&D, the lack of business plan and the inevitable bagholders at the end of the process.

Well, I asked you 3 times. You evaded 3 times. The case is clear to everyone who reads this thread.

[altcoinUK]

You seem to think CfB has a long history of being involved in pumping half-assed technology (my presumption of your opinion of Nxt) where you claim insiders profited at the expense of the greater fools.

Yes, that's correct.

I have set the bar that I have to achieve via real adoption, not speculation alone. But I can't expect that every person is as crazy risk taker as I am.

Precisely, and that is what matters in the wider context of crypto currency movement. This scam driven crypto microcosmos is a cancer for the decentralized crypto currency idea. I am a long time supporter of Bitcoin, 95% of my crypto holdings has been and it is in BTC, but I fully understand the need of novel technologies for decentralized crypto currencies. On the other hand P&D schemes like NXT  -that is uised by nobody in real world application and businesses-  brought nothing but bad name to crypto, even that several applications emerged from the NXT ecosystem. So yes, absolutely, the answer is what you are trying to achieve: real adoption. (I am so pleased to see that the NEM developers in Japan make a very good progress in the real adoption, so apart from the scams there is some good progress in real adoption and I have no doubt yours will be the next).

[Come-from-Beyond]

Note Iota's transaction signatures are not quantum resistant, because they use ECC.

You are wrong, Iota uses Winternitz signing, unfortunatelly, you don't see this message.  

[runall]

Well, it's not really a fight, not even a dislike from my part...

What about answering those simple questions instead of big walls of philosophical texts? Or that was a lie like in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=854280.msg13530000#msg13530000 case?

He will never do such thing because he knows that he will lose.

[TPTB_need_war]

(I am so pleased to see that the NEM developers in Japan make a very good progress in the real adoption, so apart from the scams there is some good progress in real adoption and I have no doubt yours will be the next).

Jabo38 was in my inner circle in 2014 so perhaps some of my ideas rubbed off on him when he saw that my progress was too slow so he found that opportunity and apparently ran with it.

[TPTB_need_war]

Note Iota's transaction signatures are not quantum resistant, because they use ECC.

You are wrong, Iota uses Winternitz signing, unfortunatelly, you don't see this message.  

I stand corrected. I unignored you because it is unfair to post in this thread and not read what you are saying. I don't want to Ignore you if please don't pesker me in my thread so I won't be bogged down (trying to do coding).

Note to readers, this doesn't change my statement about the consensus not converging without centralization.

[iotatoken]

I think perhaps you've over personalized your friction with CfB. I understand you feel he is willingly intent on being part of a scam. The way I see it is David is probably the scammer (if there is a scam and I am not asserting there is bcz I haven't studied the JINN aspect) and CfB is an astute developer who is trying to earn money while working on something interesting (so he let's David run the scammy parts and he focuses on the technology). You seem to think CfB has a long history of being involved in pumping half-assed technology (my presumption of your opinion of Nxt) where you claim insiders profited at the expense of the greater fools.

Ugh, I am getting extremely tired of you. Provide me with your real name so you prove that you are indeed willing to risk slandering a legally registered company who conducted a 100% legal software sale and the repercussions from it. There are no investors in IOTA and there is absolutely no scam being conducted. The two of you got a combined IQ on the left side of The Bell Curve.

If we wanted to scam for a living we could have utilized our position in this space in a much, much, much more efficient way and raised a fuckton more funds, and we would never ever have used our real names and real registered company to do it. Seriously, how stupid can one become without considering whether or not one should continue to speak ones mind?

IOTA is already undergoing testing, people have reviewed the code, the whitepaper has been submitted to journal, we've hired a respected GUI development team from San Francisco. What more proof do you need?

I had vision for IoT, CfB had the technical skills, we teamed up, founded a company and started work. We got engineers and professors in our team and we are developing a new kind of microprocessor for a completely new market. In addition to this we decided to make IOTA because it's a required layer for the vision of Fog and Mist computation, which is the market we are aiming for with our hardware. Is the project 'risky'? YES. Have we always been 100% open, upfront and informative about this? YES. 9/10 start-ups fail, YES. The number is even higher when it comes to experimental technology like the Jinn processor, but so what? The sort of mindset you and altcoinUK got is so fucking pathetic and unconducive to progress. As an entrepreneur with a vision you HAVE to risk failing, if everyone only went for what is 100% guaranteed the world would forever remain in the same limbo state of no change and no progress. If all tech that could ever exist had been developed by the behemoths (as altcoinUK proclaims) then there would be absolutely no disruptive start-ups. This means no Google, no Facebook, no Occulus, no ARM, no pretty much any fucking company since the 90s you can think of. The sheer unlimited supply of stupidity of the two of you combined manage to supply day after day makes my head hurt to the point of migraine.

Follow our example and do something productive in your life, make a change, try to create something new, stop complaining, whining and being envious of those who do.

This is my last reply to you malignant tumors. I hope Jinn is a success, not only for our vision, but because maybe we'll eventually reach the stage of being able to enhance brains with chips so that the two of you might one day be of use to this world.

[runall]

On the other hand P&D schemes like NXT  -that is uised by nobody...

That's a lie. For the speculators is the price is very important. A couple years for such platform as Nxt - is only little thing.

[TPTB_need_war]

I think perhaps you've over personalized your friction with CfB. I understand you feel he is willingly intent on being part of a scam. The way I see it is David is probably the scammer (if there is a scam and I am not asserting there is bcz I haven't studied the JINN aspect) and CfB is an astute developer who is trying to earn money while working on something interesting (so he let's David run the scammy parts and he focuses on the technology). You seem to think CfB has a long history of being involved in pumping half-assed technology (my presumption of your opinion of Nxt) where you claim insiders profited at the expense of the greater fools.

Ugh, I am getting extremely tired of you. Provide me with your real name...

You already have my real name in private message from the last time you threatened me with legal action.

Note above I am not making any accusation. Read it again more carefully. I am just arguing to AltcoinUK that even if JINN labs were a scam (and I state that I don't claim that), that I would think CfB would not be the one in charge of it.

In any case, I have avoided this entire thing because it turns into an enormous time waster for me.

And yes I have stated that Iota brought some innovations. I have no idea about JINN.

David you have a hot head. That will be your downfall. Cool off young man half my age.

[Come-from-Beyond]

The two of you got a combined IQ on the left side of The Bell Curve.

One of those insults after which the victim can't even suspect that s/he has been insulted? I thought Hague Convention prohibited such things...

[TPTB_need_war]

The two of you got a combined IQ on the left side of The Bell Curve.

One of those insults after which the victim can't even suspect that s/he has been insulted? I thought Hague Convention prohibited such things...

I didn't reply to it because it is just another evidence that he lacks reading comprehension. Any one who asserts my IQ is below average has a more than just a few screws loose in their head.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I didn't reply to it because it is just another evidence that he lacks reading comprehension. Any one who asserts my IQ is below average has a more than just a few screws loose in their head.

I know that you are smart, just couldn't resist the temptation to highlight the gem that could make the crown of a master troll.

[altcoinUK]

Quantum computers are a big problem to the existence of bitcoin and other altcoin.

No, they are not a big problem at all.

In fact that is only a subject of academic papers at this moment in time and cannot be a building stone of a viable start-up business that by definition needs to generate revenue. Again, a good looking package to lure out money from idiots, but in fact it is absurd to say (i.e scam) that you will build a viable business by delivering a quantum safe digital currency. In reality, even Bitcoin failed to find its way to the mass, so the quantum computers are the smallest problems of decentralized digital currency.
 
To use an analogy so you would understand how ridiculous is to build a business by addressing the Quantum computers problem, it is like, that I would present a business plan which ask investment to build an extra 50,000 retirement homes because sometimes later, we don't know when but at some point in the future the life expectancy will be 110 years and therefore presumably we will need a lot more retirement homes.

Go and ask investment from a technology angel investor or venture capitalist for a quantum safe digital currency. You will see the reaction. Such absurd unique selling point (USP) can be presented only in this irrational microcosmos where wannabe rich idiots give their 1-2 BTC "investments" for all kind of nonsenses.