Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments

[tarmo888]

Witness decentralization is in process and there was just lately news that new witness candidates will be announced soon. https://twitter.com/ObyteOrg/status/1095977601271820288
Witnesses are behind TOR so they are not vulnerable to DDoS, but you don't know that because you just like to FUD without actually learning how things work. Apparently, you don't even understand the difference between the hub and witnesses.

The witnesses are not anonymous, they are tangible by name and thus also their technique.

So what? Are saying that you will "convince" over 6 witnesses to collude at the same time to double-spend? Because that is all they can do if they collude, they have no other role, they don't approve or disapprove the transactions, so if you could get over 6 witnesses to collude then you can fxck over one merchant and all those witnesses would get replaced.

Or you are trying to say that some government could shut down 6 witnesses at once, even if they are located all around the world? Why? It wouldn't change the thing, it would be hard forked to start again with different witnesses.

What's your point? Do you have like anything valuable to add? Or you come up with some other non-issue? Or you suggestion is that the witnesses should be anonymous? Ever heard Sybil attack? I guess not.

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[Thul]

Witness decentralization is in process and there was just lately news that new witness candidates will be announced soon. https://twitter.com/ObyteOrg/status/1095977601271820288
Witnesses are behind TOR so they are not vulnerable to DDoS, but you don't know that because you just like to FUD without actually learning how things work. Apparently, you don't even understand the difference between the hub and witnesses.

The witnesses are not anonymous, they are tangible by name and thus also their technique.

So what? Are saying that you will "convince" over 6 witnesses to collude at the same time to double-spend? Because that is all they can do if they collude, they have no other role, they don't approve or disapprove the transactions, so if you could get over 6 witnesses to collude then you can fxck over one merchant and all those witnesses would get replaced.

Or you are trying to say that some government could shut down 6 witnesses at once, even if they are located all around the world? Why? It wouldn't change the thing, it would be hard forked to start again with different witnesses.

What's your point? Do you have like anything valuable to add? Or you come up with some other non-issue? Or you suggestion is that the witnesses should be anonymous? Ever heard Sybil attack? I guess not.

You are aware of the basic criticism: Due to a lack of foresight you overlook the current needs and show yourself incapable to position this project for the future.

The technical shortcomings are then added, but can be changed under circumstances, if not, then even worse.

[tarmo888]

Witness decentralization is in process and there was just lately news that new witness candidates will be announced soon. https://twitter.com/ObyteOrg/status/1095977601271820288
Witnesses are behind TOR so they are not vulnerable to DDoS, but you don't know that because you just like to FUD without actually learning how things work. Apparently, you don't even understand the difference between the hub and witnesses.

The witnesses are not anonymous, they are tangible by name and thus also their technique.

So what? Are saying that you will "convince" over 6 witnesses to collude at the same time to double-spend? Because that is all they can do if they collude, they have no other role, they don't approve or disapprove the transactions, so if you could get over 6 witnesses to collude then you can fxck over one merchant and all those witnesses would get replaced.

Or you are trying to say that some government could shut down 6 witnesses at once, even if they are located all around the world? Why? It wouldn't change the thing, it would be hard forked to start again with different witnesses.

What's your point? Do you have like anything valuable to add? Or you come up with some other non-issue? Or you suggestion is that the witnesses should be anonymous? Ever heard Sybil attack? I guess not.

You are aware of the basic criticism: Due to a lack of foresight you overlook the current needs and show yourself incapable to position this project for the future.

The technical shortcomings are then added, but can be changed under circumstances, if not, then even worse.

Your criticism is valueless because it is not even technically accurate. You just like to FUD.

[Thul]

Witness decentralization is in process and there was just lately news that new witness candidates will be announced soon. https://twitter.com/ObyteOrg/status/1095977601271820288
Witnesses are behind TOR so they are not vulnerable to DDoS, but you don't know that because you just like to FUD without actually learning how things work. Apparently, you don't even understand the difference between the hub and witnesses.

The witnesses are not anonymous, they are tangible by name and thus also their technique.

So what? Are saying that you will "convince" over 6 witnesses to collude at the same time to double-spend? Because that is all they can do if they collude, they have no other role, they don't approve or disapprove the transactions, so if you could get over 6 witnesses to collude then you can fxck over one merchant and all those witnesses would get replaced.

Or you are trying to say that some government could shut down 6 witnesses at once, even if they are located all around the world? Why? It wouldn't change the thing, it would be hard forked to start again with different witnesses.

What's your point? Do you have like anything valuable to add? Or you come up with some other non-issue? Or you suggestion is that the witnesses should be anonymous? Ever heard Sybil attack? I guess not.

You are aware of the basic criticism: Due to a lack of foresight you overlook the current needs and show yourself incapable to position this project for the future.

The technical shortcomings are then added, but can be changed under circumstances, if not, then even worse.

Your criticism is valueless because it is not even technically accurate. You just like to FUD.

Fact: You're ignoring the real need.
Why? - Answer: Because you know that your witnesses will go to jail if you serve that real demand. 

[tarmo888]

Fact: You're ignoring the real need.
Why? - Answer: Because you know that your witnesses will go to jail if you serve that real demand. 

No, that may seem fact to you because of your limited understanding and ignorance how things actually work.

Witnesses are not the only ones who validate transactions, all full nodes do that. So, witnesses have no power to censor any transactions because that would go conflict with all the full nodes. All they do is prevent double-spends. If witnesses only witness the transactions and cannot change or influence the transactions any way then they can't be held responsible for those either. All they do is just witness that these transactions took place and they don't witness those that all full nodes identified as invalid.

I am pretty sure that your limited brain power hasn't even figured out yet why using blackbytes for illegal activity is bad idea because you don't actually understand the risks and how blackbytes actually work. Either way, it is not meant for illegal activity, it's for privacy. Privacy doesn't have to be illegal. Illegal markets is your wet dream and it is minuscule market compared to all the legal activities that could be done with cryptocurrencies.

So, the only those users go to jail who do the illegal stuff thinking that DLTs are good for that use case, witnesses or other full nodes are not one of them. Just like Silk Road, cryptocurrencies can give you somewhat privacy to do that, but eventually you fxck up anyways somehow, just matter of time.

So, use it for privacy, not for illegal activity.

[fuk]

So, witnesses have no power to censor any transactions because that would go conflict with all the full nodes

could you shutdown witnesses of tonych for a day and we will see how transactions will not be censored? By the way is Tony still alive? Asking because haven't seen any meetup with him for a while. He must be doing something for real world adoption in his hole?
on a serious note why you still didn't replace even half of the witnesses? Is no one interested in breakthrough technology? Any hedge funds invested in Obyte? Any payment processors accepted Gbyte? Online merchants? Where is the results of your underground work?
i mean ok, you don't like illegal things. Where is the legal things then? Even random pornocoin will have more usecases then Obyte. Shame

[tarmo888]

So, witnesses have no power to censor any transactions because that would go conflict with all the full nodes

could you shutdown witnesses of tonych for a day and we will see how transactions will not be censored? By the way is Tony still alive? Asking because haven't seen any meetup with him for a while. He must be doing something for real world adoption in his hole?
on a serious note why you still didn't replace even half of the witnesses? Is no one interested in breakthrough technology?

The goal is not to replace the witnesses with some anonymous randos, they still have to fit into the the requirements. https://wiki.obyte.org/Witness#How_to_become_a_witness
So, yeah, as long as more than six Tony's witnesses are not replaced, there is risk Obyte would need a hard-fork to recover the loss of founder.
I also think that the process has been slow (way slower than expected), but then again it is lot of work and it has become more to focus when Valerius joined in last summer. https://medium.com/obyte/the-future-of-byteball-the-byteball-foundation-cca9d495bf46
There are already some witnesses lined up, but not announced yet. https://twitter.com/ObyteOrg/status/1095977601271820288
And I have advised many on setting the witness node up, so I am sure there will be more to come.

[Thul]

i mean ok, you don't like illegal things. Where is the legal things then? Even random pornocoin will have more usecases then Obyte. Shame

For legal goods and services there are Paypal and credit cards. They fulfil the requirements splendidly.

The Zero-Byte regime now lacks the foresight that the unregulated market double every year.
The unregulated market not only offers illegal goods, but the suppliers there have an interest in using a marketplace where they can act freely without being confronted with the usual harassment by state authorities.

[tarmo888]

i mean ok, you don't like illegal things. Where is the legal things then? Even random pornocoin will have more usecases then Obyte. Shame

For legal goods and services there are Paypal and credit cards. They fulfil the requirements splendidly.

The Zero-Byte regime now lacks the foresight that the unregulated market double every year.
The unregulated market not only offers illegal goods, but the suppliers there have an interest in using a marketplace where they can act freely without being confronted with the usual harassment by state authorities.

Again, not correct, you most probably are not PayPal user or haven't developed using anything using PayPal.

Money on PayPal is not your money, it's same as money in bank and PayPal is happy to freeze your money even faster than a bank.
PayPal is great for recurring payments, but lot of their tech is frozen for 10 years, so it is not really programmable money. For that use case, they have bought Braintree.
Things that PayPal is basically same as email attestation on Obyte. They are totally missing the chat payments, so they bought have Venmo too.

Obyte is much more than PayPal, Braintree or Venmo.

Most people opsec sucks (including me and you), so there is handful amount of people who would not shoot themselves in the foot doing illegal stuff on Internet. So, it doesn't matter if more people buy weed every year or not, suggesting them to use cryptocurrencies where it is still illegal is stupid. So, if there is only handful amount of people who could do their opsec securely without getting caught, there will always be bigger market for legal stuff, no matter if there is already PayPal or not, because it's not a same product as PayPal.

[fuk]

i mean ok, you don't like illegal things. Where is the legal things then? Even random pornocoin will have more usecases then Obyte. Shame

For legal goods and services there are Paypal and credit cards. They fulfil the requirements splendidly.

The Zero-Byte regime now lacks the foresight that the unregulated market double every year.
The unregulated market not only offers illegal goods, but the suppliers there have an interest in using a marketplace where they can act freely without being confronted with the usual harassment by state authorities.

Again, not correct, you most probably are not PayPal user or haven't developed using anything using PayPal.

Money on PayPal is not your money, it's same as money in bank and PayPal is happy to freeze your money even faster than a bank.
PayPal is great for recurring payments, but lot of their tech is frozen for 10 years, so it is not really programmable money. For that use case, they have bought Braintree.
Things that PayPal is basically same as email attestation on Obyte. They are totally missing the chat payments, so they bought have Venmo too.

Obyte is much more than PayPal, Braintree or Venmo.

Most people opsec sucks (including me and you), so there is handful amount of people who would not shoot themselves in the foot doing illegal stuff on Internet. So, it doesn't matter if more people buy weed every year or not, suggesting them to use cryptocurrencies where it is still illegal is stupid. So, if there is only handful amount of people who could do their opsec securely without getting caught, there will always be bigger market for legal stuff, no matter if there is already PayPal or not, because it's not a same product as PayPal.

There is no need to be ultra illegal or ultra legal. Both markets are open and it would be great to be accepted on both. But both legal and illegal markets completely ignore Obyte.

because it's not a same product as PayPal

what Obyte can offer to a legal merchant, that can't offer PayPal (visa, alipay, eth/dai and so on)?

1) Like I said, don't see the hashrate drop even half linear or logarithmic scale, there was quite a drop in December, but nothing special. If the hashrate doesn't drop half, then the price needs to double. One or the other.
1. So, do you think that miners will start selling BTC without profit? Or they start selling their previously earned profit at lower value?

Small miners turned off the farms, large miners mined at the expense of previous profits
March 2018 Bitmain holdings:
BTC       22,082
BCH 1,021,306
Now
BTC      6,000 (liquidated 70%)
BCH 750,000 (liquidated 25%)
https://twitter.com/btcking555/status/1097819249538723841

[tarmo888]

because it's not a same product as PayPal

what Obyte can offer to a legal merchant, that can't offer PayPal (visa, alipay, eth/dai and so on)?

That's kind of odd question from somebody who is into cryptocurrencies. Kind of tired explaining all the problems that fiat has over cryptocurrencies. You should already know these answers.

Have you ever seen obyte.org?
* ICO/STO Platform (cheaper and easier than on Ethereum)
* Developer friendly (friendlier that PayPal or Braintree or any other fiat/credit card processor)
* Risk-free conditional smart payments (doesn't even need oracle if used for Obyte assets)
* P2P insurance (either by finding a counterpart from public channels or flight insurance bot, could be used for other insurance too)
* Prediction markets (currently only possible by finding a counterpart from public channels and then offering contract via chat)
* P2P betting (either by finding a counterpart from public channels or via sports betting bot or BB Odds website
* Textcoins (actually what sending funds to email means, PayPal just uses email as account number, even better than PayPal when used with email attestation or username attestation)
* Sovereign identity (most coins only dream about it in their whitepapers, Obyte have it already for over the year)
* P2P payments in chat (like Venmo or WeChat)
* Chatbots (don't know any Chatbot platform that also has payments included, maybe WeChat and probably Facebook soon)
* Blackbytes (great for privacy, if used the right way)
* Cashback for merchants

[Thul]

There is no need to be ultra illegal or ultra legal. Both markets are open and it would be great to be accepted on both. But both legal and illegal markets completely ignore Obyte.

The only target group for crypto currencies is the unregulated market. A decentralized solution is urgently needed there. And only on this market there is a serious demand for cryptos, because it only makes sense there.
The masses are not interested in cryptos. It will only deal with cryptos because of the increasingly attractive unregulated markets.

Already two years ago the 0Byte regime was made aware of it. They have mainly developed gadgets that nobody currently needs and will probably soon be implemented by a state coin.

The state has the monopoly on regulated markets.

[fuk]

because it's not a same product as PayPal

what Obyte can offer to a legal merchant, that can't offer PayPal (visa, alipay, eth/dai and so on)?

That's kind of odd question from somebody who is into cryptocurrencies. Kind of tired explaining all the problems that fiat has over cryptocurrencies. You should already know these answers.

Have you ever seen obyte.org?
* ICO/STO Platform (cheaper and easier than on Ethereum)
* Developer friendly (friendlier that PayPal or Braintree or any other fiat/credit card processor)
* Risk-free conditional smart payments (doesn't even need oracle if used for Obyte assets)
* P2P insurance (either by finding a counterpart from public channels or flight insurance bot, could be used for other insurance too)
* Prediction markets (currently only possible by finding a counterpart from public channels and then offering contract via chat)
* P2P betting (either by finding a counterpart from public channels or via sports betting bot or BB Odds website
* Textcoins (actually what sending funds to email means, PayPal just uses email as account number, even better than PayPal when used with email attestation or username attestation)
* Sovereign identity (most coins only dream about it in their whitepapers, Obyte have it already for over the year)
* P2P payments in chat (like Venmo or WeChat)
* Chatbots (don't know any Chatbot platform that also has payments included, maybe WeChat and probably Facebook soon)
* Blackbytes (great for privacy, if used the right way)
* Cashback for merchants

You listed the functions, but the question was not about that. As a merchant you don't need ico, smart payments, insuranse, betting and other. You need only add payment button on your site and spend money from sales. That's all. Why Obyte button is better than Visa or ETH button? Why as a merchant i will prefer Obyte over ETH?
There is only one reason - the size of the community aka spenders. If i see that my customers want Obyte, i will add Obyte. There is no difference will on the button logo btc, eth or visa. Merchants want to sell their goods and they don't get a fuck about textcoins.

[tarmo888]

You listed the functions, but the question was not about that. As a merchant you don't need ico, smart payments, insuranse, betting and other. You need only add payment button on your site and spend money from sales. That's all. Why Obyte button is better than Visa or ETH button? Why as a merchant i will prefer Obyte over ETH?
There is only one reason - the size of the community aka spenders. If i see that my customers want Obyte, i will add Obyte. There is no difference will on the button logo btc, eth or visa. Merchants want to sell their goods and they don't get a fuck about textcoins.

Why limit yourself to just payments, even PayPal doesn't do just payments, it can do recurring payments too. If you are interesting in just payments then there are lot more options out there. Even new OpenBanking/PSD2 API for banks is able to do just payments, so all cryptocurrencies that do just payments are quite hard to sell in very near future.

There is no need to be ultra illegal or ultra legal. Both markets are open and it would be great to be accepted on both. But both legal and illegal markets completely ignore Obyte.

The only target group for crypto currencies is the unregulated market. A decentralized solution is urgently needed there. And only on this market there is a serious demand for cryptos, because it only makes sense there.
The masses are not interested in cryptos. It will only deal with cryptos because of the increasingly attractive unregulated markets.

You still living in 2013 when Silk Road was booming. What is increasing is number of people who want to smoke weed, not hard drugs. And weed is becoming more legal in more states. Bitcoin was used back then and there are many-many more options today (including blackbytes), but it is still as private as good as is your opsec in general. So, amount of people who are suddenly able to do it without getting caught is not increasing as fast as you claim. It is still a niche market compared to all the legal options out there and in most cases, if weed becomes legal in most states, all you need is just privacy.

[fuk]

Why limit yourself to just payments

You not limiting yourself, you just use what you need and drop all unnecessary. For most of the merchants only simple payments are necessary. Recurring payments are useful for some business, but as you said even PayPal provide it.

[Thul]

Why limit yourself to just payments

You not limiting yourself, you just use what you need and drop all unnecessary. For most of the merchants only simple payments are necessary. Recurring payments are useful for some business, but as you said even PayPal provide it.

The regime lives in its own echo chamber and filter bubble.

The fact that the unregulated niche market doubles every year until it is soon no longer a niche market and that there are now also quite normal things of daily needs offered is simply filtered away.
It cannot be what must not be. So simple is the world in the 0Byte universe.

[Ribak1992]

because it's not a same product as PayPal

what Obyte can offer to a legal merchant, that can't offer PayPal (visa, alipay, eth/dai and so on)?

That's kind of odd question from somebody who is into cryptocurrencies. Kind of tired explaining all the problems that fiat has over cryptocurrencies. You should already know these answers.

Have you ever seen obyte.org?
* ICO/STO Platform (cheaper and easier than on Ethereum)
* Developer friendly (friendlier that PayPal or Braintree or any other fiat/credit card processor)
* Risk-free conditional smart payments (doesn't even need oracle if used for Obyte assets)
* P2P insurance (either by finding a counterpart from public channels or flight insurance bot, could be used for other insurance too)
* Prediction markets (currently only possible by finding a counterpart from public channels and then offering contract via chat)
* P2P betting (either by finding a counterpart from public channels or via sports betting bot or BB Odds website
* Textcoins (actually what sending funds to email means, PayPal just uses email as account number, even better than PayPal when used with email attestation or username attestation)
* Sovereign identity (most coins only dream about it in their whitepapers, Obyte have it already for over the year)
* P2P payments in chat (like Venmo or WeChat)
* Chatbots (don't know any Chatbot platform that also has payments included, maybe WeChat and probably Facebook soon)
* Blackbytes (great for privacy, if used the right way)
* Cashback for merchants

everything is right and you are right about that. in this project there is everything but without full implementation. and you always have to focus on something. need privacy? there is a monero or a new hyip called grin or beam. looking for smart contracts there is a tron and eth. for value guys bitcoin is better than nothing, and for payterminals there is a npsx.

[tarmo888]

That's kind of odd question from somebody who is into cryptocurrencies. Kind of tired explaining all the problems that fiat has over cryptocurrencies. You should already know these answers.

Have you ever seen obyte.org?
* ICO/STO Platform (cheaper and easier than on Ethereum)
* Developer friendly (friendlier that PayPal or Braintree or any other fiat/credit card processor)
* Risk-free conditional smart payments (doesn't even need oracle if used for Obyte assets)
* P2P insurance (either by finding a counterpart from public channels or flight insurance bot, could be used for other insurance too)
* Prediction markets (currently only possible by finding a counterpart from public channels and then offering contract via chat)
* P2P betting (either by finding a counterpart from public channels or via sports betting bot or BB Odds website
* Textcoins (actually what sending funds to email means, PayPal just uses email as account number, even better than PayPal when used with email attestation or username attestation)
* Sovereign identity (most coins only dream about it in their whitepapers, Obyte have it already for over the year)
* P2P payments in chat (like Venmo or WeChat)
* Chatbots (don't know any Chatbot platform that also has payments included, maybe WeChat and probably Facebook soon)
* Blackbytes (great for privacy, if used the right way)
* Cashback for merchants

everything is right and you are right about that. in this project there is everything but without full implementation. and you always have to focus on something. need privacy? there is a monero or a new hyip called grin or beam. looking for smart contracts there is a tron and eth. for value guys bitcoin is better than nothing, and for payterminals there is a npsx.

Without full implementation? what do you mean? Obyte is like a toolbox, so you complain that toolbox is not a house?

Can you airdrop your coins to Bitcoin or Ethereum users and know how much it will cost to you? No, fees are not predictable.
Can you do KYC on Ethereum or you have to pay a lot of money to KYC provider, so user would need to scan their documents again and again, even if they have already done it with same KYC provider.
Can you launch your own token on Ethereum or you need to hire a developer to do that for you?
Can you do P2P betting/insurance/predictions on Ethereum without developer? No, you raise millions and build something stupid like Augur just to do something basic that could be already have been built into the platform.

ICO/STO platform is also a tool, if you want to use that to build your house, you can use it. And can do it cheaper because you don't have to pay for KYC provider because Obyte has it built-in.
Conditional payments, smart-contracts and oracles are also tools. full implementation is the flight insurance bot and sports betting bot that use these tools to build a product.
Textcoins is also just a tool, so anybody can use it as a paper voucher in their product. There is also smart-vouchers, which other people can also use as digital vouchers.

And that makes it a full implementation, a box of tools that you can build your stuff on. And there will be more tools added into the toolbox, it is your business decision to buy one toolbox or build these tools yourself one by one.

[Thul]

0Byte to compare with other shitcoins fits.

Fact: You don't have any users except a few nerds (and you won't get any).

First create a benefit and then implement the gimmicks.
That would have been the right way.

[Ribak1992]

That's kind of odd question from somebody who is into cryptocurrencies. Kind of tired explaining all the problems that fiat has over cryptocurrencies. You should already know these answers.

Have you ever seen obyte.org?
* ICO/STO Platform (cheaper and easier than on Ethereum)
* Developer friendly (friendlier that PayPal or Braintree or any other fiat/credit card processor)
* Risk-free conditional smart payments (doesn't even need oracle if used for Obyte assets)
* P2P insurance (either by finding a counterpart from public channels or flight insurance bot, could be used for other insurance too)
* Prediction markets (currently only possible by finding a counterpart from public channels and then offering contract via chat)
* P2P betting (either by finding a counterpart from public channels or via sports betting bot or BB Odds website
* Textcoins (actually what sending funds to email means, PayPal just uses email as account number, even better than PayPal when used with email attestation or username attestation)
* Sovereign identity (most coins only dream about it in their whitepapers, Obyte have it already for over the year)
* P2P payments in chat (like Venmo or WeChat)
* Chatbots (don't know any Chatbot platform that also has payments included, maybe WeChat and probably Facebook soon)
* Blackbytes (great for privacy, if used the right way)
* Cashback for merchants

everything is right and you are right about that. in this project there is everything but without full implementation. and you always have to focus on something. need privacy? there is a monero or a new hyip called grin or beam. looking for smart contracts there is a tron and eth. for value guys bitcoin is better than nothing, and for payterminals there is a npsx.

Without full implementation? what do you mean? Obyte is like a toolbox, so you complain that toolbox is not a house?

Can you airdrop your coins to Bitcoin or Ethereum users and know how much it will cost to you? No, fees are not predictable.
Can you do KYC on Ethereum or you have to pay a lot of money to KYC provider, so user would need to scan their documents again and again, even if they have already done it with same KYC provider.
Can you launch your own token on Ethereum or you need to hire a developer to do that for you?
Can you do P2P betting/insurance/predictions on Ethereum without developer? No, you raise millions and build something stupid like Augur just to do something basic that could be already have been built into the platform.

ICO/STO platform is also a tool, if you want to use that to build your house, you can use it. And can do it cheaper because you don't have to pay for KYC provider because Obyte has it built-in.
Conditional payments, smart-contracts and oracles are also tools. full implementation is the flight insurance bot and sports betting bot that use these tools to build a product.
Textcoins is also just a tool, so anybody can use it as a paper voucher in their product. There is also smart-vouchers, which other people can also use as digital vouchers.

And that makes it a full implementation, a box of tools that you can build your stuff on. And there will be more tools added into the toolbox, it is your business decision to buy one toolbox or build these tools yourself one by one.

it will be necessary to understand more on your system. and your answer puts things in its place. as they say now, im now realized that im didnt understand anything. thanks for the answer.