Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[titomane]

If you host Jupiter with KNC
 KNC = 7000 +3600 = 10600

If you buy 400Ghs on Byteminr
16 * 1115 = 17840

Are 7000$ more.


I would also like to LAN settings, allow put more than 1 gateway. Where I will have 2 WAN. You can drop a WAN but the other works.
I do not want two Ethernet ports. In linux you can put more than +1 gateway. Software emulation

[darianc]

Would like to personally start up and run a highly connected p2pool for a while to see how well knc miners will be able to handle it.  If anyone is interested I'll start researching it more.

Shared txn fees sounds good to me. I'll give it a run, count one of my jupiters in.

[webjoe]

It says on the Byteminr site they have permission to host within the KnC pool, the fact the owner is Sam's bro certainly helps there;
http://www.byteminr.com/news/2013/7/23/announcing-support-of-the-kncminer-mining-pool

Ah, I should have read more into it before I posted.  Yes, nepotism does seem to have it's advantages.
 

[timmmers]

Im not sure if its worth to buy a Mercury device ?

Why not? They all return at the same ratio. The day a Jupiter breaks even they all will assuming all other factors are the same.

I was wondering the other way round. Is it worth buying larger machines?
You buy a Jupiter, one day it develops a fault..you have no miner.
You buy the same hash power split between 2 miners and you have a backup if one breaks...at minimal cost.

[ImI]

Im not sure if its worth to buy a Mercury device ?

Why not? They all return at the same ratio.

No they obviously dont.

Mercury means higher price per GH.

[ASIC-K]

Im not sure if its worth to buy a Mercury device ?

Why not? They all return at the same ratio.

No they obviously dont.

Mercury means higher price per GH.

Couple hundred bucks. It's barely a difference.

[Bitcoinorama]

Im not sure if its worth to buy a Mercury device ?

Why not? They all return at the same ratio.

No they obviously dont.

Mercury means higher price per GH.

Couple hundred bucks. It's barely a difference.

$200 per device, plus 2-4x shipping depending on what device you wish to mirror, plus your elec.

Is that more affordable than hosting?

Your device hosted presumably is fixed on site immediately if faulty so minimal downtime and no shipping costs going back and fourth.

[timmmers]

Im not sure if its worth to buy a Mercury device ?

Why not? They all return at the same ratio.

No they obviously dont.

Mercury means higher price per GH.

Couple hundred bucks. It's barely a difference.

$200 per device, plus 2-4x shipping depending on what device you wish to mirror, plus your elec.

Is that more affordable than hosting?

Your device hosted presumably is fixed on site immediately if faulty so minimal downtime and no shipping costs going back and fourth.

Go on then, I have to ask. How do they immediately get them up and running? There is no way that can happen.
For example, mine will be sent next day delivery (what I paid for anyway) ...so unless they're hosting them at the factory they should get onsite about the same time, or later if they are efficient and send batches.
When mine arrives onsite it will be unboxed and I'll not stop until it]s hashing...there won't be 400 other machines sitting there awaiting my attention which is exactly what's going to happen at the other end with hosted machines. I won't go home for tea at 5pm and sort the rest out the next day either. Unless they have a hell of a lot of staff working 23/7 a lot of rigs will sit around a while waiting to be set up. IT's 1/1 human to rig when mine comes. When stuff breaks and no customer's there it rarely gets immediate attention in my experience, although it's going to be much easier and faster to get it back up hosted than offsite for sure.

Hosting is expensive, these machines will be old in 6 months...maybe not even earning their power bill. You have to consider what you'll do then. Assuming you probably have a next gen if all goes to KnC plan. Continue to pay hosting (for both)? Have it sent to you? Neither great options when it's not producing much. Scrap it? Ebay it? Set it to another task? Maybe another currency?

Nothing is as straightforward as it would appear. Always we need to make a best guess.

[Bitcoinorama]

Im not sure if its worth to buy a Mercury device ?

Why not? They all return at the same ratio.

No they obviously dont.

Mercury means higher price per GH.

Couple hundred bucks. It's barely a difference.

$200 per device, plus 2-4x shipping depending on what device you wish to mirror, plus your elec.

Is that more affordable than hosting?

Your device hosted presumably is fixed on site immediately if faulty so minimal downtime and no shipping costs going back and fourth.

Go on then, I have to ask. How do they immediately get them up and running? There is no way that can happen.
For example, mine will be sent next day delivery (what I paid for anyway) ...so unless they're hosting them at the factory they should get onsite about the same time, or later if they are efficient and send batches.
When mine arrives onsite it will be unboxed and I'll not stop until it]s hashing...there won't be 400 other machines sitting there awaiting my attention which is exactly what's going to happen at the other end with hosted machines. I won't go home for tea at 5pm and sort the rest out the next day either. Unless they have a hell of a lot of staff working 23/7 a lot of rigs will sit around a while waiting to be set up. IT's 1/1 human to rig when mine comes. When stuff breaks and no customer's there it rarely gets immediate attention in my experience, although it's going to be much easier and faster to get it back up hosted than offsite for sure.

Hosting is expensive, these machines will be old in 6 months...maybe not even earning their power bill. You have to consider what you'll do then. Assuming you probably have a next gen if all goes to KnC plan. Continue to pay hosting (for both)? Have it sent to you? Neither great options when it's not producing much. Scrap it? Ebay it? Set it to another task? Maybe another currency?

Nothing is as straightforward as it would appear. Always we need to make a best guess.

If it was me I would have a bank of machines in reserve and switch hashing in case a few fault at periods so customers have no down time. It's not like your machine needs a name and a special place reserved in the hosting facility. Especially with hosting that has a markup.

[pyra-proxy]

Would like to personally start up and run a highly connected p2pool for a while to see how well knc miners will be able to handle it.  If anyone is interested I'll start researching it more.

Shared txn fees sounds good to me. I'll give it a run, count one of my jupiters in.

I find if even 1 person speaks up there are several who can't/won't so I'll start looking into it.  If I do go for it, I'll post when it's up and running and likely I'll do it pre-expected KNC launch so that I can start working on boosting the difficulty of p2pool blocks some because I'd be afraid that would be the biggest killer of the massive hash rates that these can produce and that will take a little time to become stable.  I'll also investigate options that would allow me to operate it with 0% fee, I have some ideas but if anyone has suggestions please let me know :-)  (0% is at risk because I would need to buy reliable hosting that is suitable for p2pool but even with that in mind I'm very positive worse case scenario would have a very very competitive low fee, would imagine <= 1% if enough people join it)

[ahassoun]

Has anyone reached any IMPORTANT conclusion yet? Has anyone proven anything?

I am on page #42 (and still reading) but this will take much time to end this topic.

I am thinking of investing like $10K on their miners but I am a bit afraid.

Worth or not? Real and works as should be? Deliver on time?

[dwdoc]

According to below KNC is still the best option but Caveat Aleo (gambler beware):

http://decentralizedhashing.com/bitcoin-mining-equipment-table/

[Bitcoinorama]

Has anyone reached any IMPORTANT conclusion yet? Has anyone proven anything?

I am on page #42 (and still reading) but this will take much time to end this topic.

I am thinking of investing like $10K on their miners but I am a bit afraid.

Worth or not? Real and works as should be? Deliver on time?

Probably. Def real, don't know the rest, but have taped out.

[Minor Miner]

Has anyone reached any IMPORTANT conclusion yet? Has anyone proven anything?
I am on page #42 (and still reading) but this will take much time to end this topic.
I am thinking of investing like $10K on their miners but I am a bit afraid.
Worth or not? Real and works as should be? Deliver on time?

Probably. Def real, don't know the rest, but have taped out.

Not to nit pick, but how do you KNOW they have taped out.   I do not know they have taped out.   I have READ a post from KNC that they taped out but then again I read a post last November from Inaba saying that he had just sent a prototype to the lab for certification testing and we all (now) know that is not true.

[erk]

Has anyone reached any IMPORTANT conclusion yet? Has anyone proven anything?
I am on page #42 (and still reading) but this will take much time to end this topic.
I am thinking of investing like $10K on their miners but I am a bit afraid.
Worth or not? Real and works as should be? Deliver on time?

Probably. Def real, don't know the rest, but have taped out.

Not to nit pick, but how do you KNOW they have taped out.   I do not know they have taped out.   I have READ a post from KNC that they taped out but then again I read a post last November from Inaba saying that he had just sent a prototype to the lab for certification testing and we all (now) know that is not true.

Who cares, not me that's for sure, all that matters is if they deliver their products on time as promised right?

Trying to put their business under a microscope achieves very little, probably does more harm then good if you force them to waste time responding instead of letting them get on with it.

[SirWizz]

Not to nit pick, but how do you KNOW they have taped out.   I do not know they have taped out.   I have READ a post from KNC that they taped out but then again I read a post last November from Inaba saying that he had just sent a prototype to the lab for certification testing and we all (now) know that is not true.

That's actually a reasonable point. The truth is we can not be certain that they did tape out, but we estimate based on everything else that happened so far with this company and the backgrounds of the people involved that there is a high probability they are telling the truth. You might be inclined to weigh things differently, but your point is valid - until we see a video of a Jupiter hashing that is (how long KNC? ).

[MrHempstock]

Has anyone reached any IMPORTANT conclusion yet? Has anyone proven anything?

I am on page #42 (and still reading) but this will take much time to end this topic.

I am thinking of investing like $10K on their miners but I am a bit afraid.

Worth or not? Real and works as should be? Deliver on time?

This thread might help: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=231739.80

[Anenome5]

But of course, BFL did something so silly where they apparently failed to do optical proximity correction, and this is, apparently, why their power drain doubled.

Are you saying this as a fact? If so please link source.

No, that's why I qualified the statement with 'apparently,' obviously. However it would explain why their power targets are off by an order of magnitude. And it's one of the more charitable explanations other than outright incompetence.

I don't expect Orsoc to pull such a rookie move.

Bitfury also missed original power goals. You saying hes a rookie too?

They're not off by an order of magnitude. It's not quite in the same ballpark therefore, is it.

A: Rookie mistake.

B: Estimate proved optimistic.

Sorry, as somebody who already executed the one or the other 65nm/40nm/28nm tape-out including direct contact to foundries, I like to mention that BFL and its design enablement partner for layout generation/sign off (Chronicle Tech?) were for sure not responsible for the OPC.

OPC is a task of the mask preparation, which is normally done at the mask house related to the foundry before wafer manufacturing can start. The responsibility for this step has the foundry, which was Globalfoundries in case of BFL.

An order of magnitude? Do you mean 10x? When I remember right, BFL targeted below 1 J/GH and reached 3.2 J/GH.  Should be 3.2x.

Anyway, a missed OPC would result in a very bad yield, maybe even in no yield. The influence at power should not be that strong.

From my point of view, the reason for missing the power target, was the design methodology of the BFL ASIC. It's impossible to run detailed accurate power analysis (e.g. for calculation of a complete hash) during design phase for this kind of design sizes, if you do a full-custom design (hand layout). The reason for this is, that these kind of analysis have to be done at transistor level in case of a full-custom design. I doubt that there is a spice simulator, which can simulate a complete pipelined hash core. If there is one, such a power analysis would take weeks.

So I assume, that BFL did power analysis only for small parts of one hash core and than they tried to scale it up (if they did at all). With respect to power consumption they were a kind of blind till late in the implementation phase. I also think that they realized that they have a problem shortly before tape-out. That was the reason why they change the package from a simple wire-bond QFN to a flip-chip BGA late in 2012 to be able to handle the much higher power consumption.

I will defer to your wisdom and knowledge in this topic.

It's impossible to run detailed accurate power analysis (e.g. for calculation of a complete hash) during design phase for this kind of design sizes, if you do a full-custom design (hand layout).

I have not read anyone else say they attempted a full custom design. Someone mentioned the old proverb 'you must walk before you run,' the hell were they thinking.

They went for a home-run and struck out at the plate.

[Anenome5]

will be there a trade in advantage for the 2nd generation of your products starting to ship in March 2014?

What I want is not a 'trade in' at all, but rather preferential ordering rights, as a customer who helped them get off the ground in the first gen and believed and trusted in them. I want to keep my old machine still!

[Anenome5]

Will KNC allow individuals who purchased their hardware but are not utilizing the hosting service from byteminr to participate in their mining pool?  

If not, how come?  (ie.  is it a programming nightmare to only allow KNC machines to access the pool and reject other mining hardware?)

There's DDOS issues and the like. Forget about it.