Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Anenome5]

Has anyone reached any IMPORTANT conclusion yet? Has anyone proven anything?
I am on page #42 (and still reading) but this will take much time to end this topic.
I am thinking of investing like $10K on their miners but I am a bit afraid.
Worth or not? Real and works as should be? Deliver on time?

Probably. Def real, don't know the rest, but have taped out.

Not to nit pick, but how do you KNOW they have taped out.   I do not know they have taped out.   I have READ a post from KNC that they taped out but then again I read a post last November from Inaba saying that he had just sent a prototype to the lab for certification testing and we all (now) know that is not true.

We don't know for sure, only proof we have is inductive evidence, and their claim that they have taped out jives with other facts, like their access to Orsoc foundry agreements. The claim makes it more likely that they will ship on time, since they've been forthright in every other aspect so far we don't yet have reason to disbelieve them. Judging an investment where information is scarce is all about inductive weightings of the known facts. These guys have already surpassed major hurdles in credibility and meeting in person and getting the prototype device running.

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[Anenome5]

Not to nit pick, but how do you KNOW they have taped out.   I do not know they have taped out.   I have READ a post from KNC that they taped out but then again I read a post last November from Inaba saying that he had just sent a prototype to the lab for certification testing and we all (now) know that is not true.

That's actually a reasonable point. The truth is we can not be certain that they did tape out, but we estimate based on everything else that happened so far with this company and the backgrounds of the people involved that there is a high probability they are telling the truth. You might be inclined to weigh things differently, but your point is valid - until we see a video of a Jupiter hashing that is (how long KNC? ).

Imagine they've got chips ordered and PCBs ordered, I assume they'll receive sample chips early on and sample PCBs--perhaps it's not long before they'll have a couple Jupiters to work on in actuality. We know they promised a Jupiter to that couple doing the documentary on living on Bitcoin for a month was it, and they've probably got one for developing the software and whatnot. So, may not be long now before we see a working unit in actuality, before the others are put together even. Is that not so? Are they likely to receive sample chips or not?

[erk]

Not to nit pick, but how do you KNOW they have taped out.   I do not know they have taped out.   I have READ a post from KNC that they taped out but then again I read a post last November from Inaba saying that he had just sent a prototype to the lab for certification testing and we all (now) know that is not true.

That's actually a reasonable point. The truth is we can not be certain that they did tape out, but we estimate based on everything else that happened so far with this company and the backgrounds of the people involved that there is a high probability they are telling the truth. You might be inclined to weigh things differently, but your point is valid - until we see a video of a Jupiter hashing that is (how long KNC? ).

Imagine they've got chips ordered and PCBs ordered, I assume they'll receive sample chips early on and sample PCBs--perhaps it's not long before they'll have a couple Jupiters to work on in actuality. We know they promised a Jupiter to that couple doing the documentary on living on Bitcoin for a month was it, and they've probably got one for developing the software and whatnot. So, may not be long now before we see a working unit in actuality, before the others are put together even. Is that not so? Are they likely to receive sample chips or not?

You don't get "sample chips" you either get a wafer or nothing, the wafer then has to then go off to be cut up into chips and packaged.

[Minor Miner]

Not to nit pick, but how do you KNOW they have taped out.   I do not know they have taped out.   I have READ a post from KNC that they taped out but then again I read a post last November from Inaba saying that he had just sent a prototype to the lab for certification testing and we all (now) know that is not true.

That's actually a reasonable point. The truth is we can not be certain that they did tape out, but we estimate based on everything else that happened so far with this company and the backgrounds of the people involved that there is a high probability they are telling the truth. You might be inclined to weigh things differently, but your point is valid - until we see a video of a Jupiter hashing that is (how long KNC? ).

Imagine they've got chips ordered and PCBs ordered, I assume they'll receive sample chips early on and sample PCBs--perhaps it's not long before they'll have a couple Jupiters to work on in actuality. We know they promised a Jupiter to that couple doing the documentary on living on Bitcoin for a month was it, and they've probably got one for developing the software and whatnot. So, may not be long now before we see a working unit in actuality, before the others are put together even. Is that not so? Are they likely to receive sample chips or not?

You are getting closer to my point.   If this is a complete design (and not something more akin to eASIC where you just design one layer), you would typically get on a shuttle (which would mean you would be saying "shuttle run is schedule and we should get sample chips to test and optimize our design in xx days).   Then you would spend the $800,000 to tape out a 28nm mask......
who knows?   That is what I am saying.   we do not know.    seems credible but who are the "competitors" that are scared if they know their progress?   If I am producing ASICs it does not matter when these guys ship.    It just changes the difficulty.   It does not help my chips come quicker....

[Loredo]

  seems credible but who are the "competitors" that are scared if they know their progress?   If I am producing ASICs it does not matter when these guys ship.

That's all true. 

But on the other hand, there are defensive business practices in industries where your net worth goes home at night.  And they involve making sure everyone is very tight lipped, and no one makes an independent decision as to what they should or should not say down at the bar, to the girlfriend, or on the social media.

There's an old saying: Macy's doesn't tell Gimbel's.  Whether or not it mattered.

[erk]

You are getting closer to my point.   If this is a complete design (and not something more akin to eASIC where you just design one layer), you would typically get on a shuttle (which would mean you would be saying "shuttle run is schedule and we should get sample chips to test and optimize our design in xx days).   Then you would spend the $800,000 to tape out a 28nm mask......
who knows?   That is what I am saying.   we do not know.    seems credible but who are the "competitors" that are scared if they know their progress?   If I am producing ASICs it does not matter when these guys ship.    It just changes the difficulty.   It does not help my chips come quicker....

If an MPW batch had been made, then we would have seen a working prototype well before the production wafer run was ordered, that clearly hasn't happened unless they choose to keep it a tight lipped secret, so one would assume it wont and the first sample will be from the production wafers.

[ultrix]

You are getting closer to my point.   If this is a complete design (and not something more akin to eASIC where you just design one layer), you would typically get on a shuttle (which would mean you would be saying "shuttle run is schedule and we should get sample chips to test and optimize our design in xx days).   Then you would spend the $800,000 to tape out a 28nm mask......
who knows?   That is what I am saying.   we do not know.    seems credible but who are the "competitors" that are scared if they know their progress?   If I am producing ASICs it does not matter when these guys ship.    It just changes the difficulty.   It does not help my chips come quicker....

If an MPW batch had been made, then we would have seen a working prototype well before the production wafer run was ordered, that clearly hasn't happened unless they choose to keep it a tight lipped secret, so one would assume it wont and the first sample will be from the production wafers.

Hopefully they're not using ST Micro as their foundary.  ST has a bunch of open MPW space (not utilized by contract customers) on August 7th... on their SOI process.  Hopefully KNC knows enough to avoid SOI for chips of this nature.

[Phoenix1969]

I started a new channel for KNC chat @   
Webchat.Freenode.net   
channel:  Kncminer
Please make use of it & help spread the word; Aloha, Eric

[Gyrsur]

KnC, please explain.

yдaлocь выяcнить, чтo y Джoшa ecть aккayнт в фeйcбyкe и oн тaм пишeт вcякoe.
нaпpимep вo втopник зaпocтил фoткy c кaким-тo xмыpeм, кoтopoгo oн нaзывaeт "нaйc гaй". Джoш cпpaвa.

BFL & KnC represent! Sam is a really nice guy!

интepьep cтpaшный

[HyperMega]

Not to nit pick, but how do you KNOW they have taped out.   I do not know they have taped out.   I have READ a post from KNC that they taped out but then again I read a post last November from Inaba saying that he had just sent a prototype to the lab for certification testing and we all (now) know that is not true.

That's actually a reasonable point. The truth is we can not be certain that they did tape out, but we estimate based on everything else that happened so far with this company and the backgrounds of the people involved that there is a high probability they are telling the truth. You might be inclined to weigh things differently, but your point is valid - until we see a video of a Jupiter hashing that is (how long KNC? ).

Imagine they've got chips ordered and PCBs ordered, I assume they'll receive sample chips early on and sample PCBs--perhaps it's not long before they'll have a couple Jupiters to work on in actuality. We know they promised a Jupiter to that couple doing the documentary on living on Bitcoin for a month was it, and they've probably got one for developing the software and whatnot. So, may not be long now before we see a working unit in actuality, before the others are put together even. Is that not so? Are they likely to receive sample chips or not?

You are getting closer to my point.   If this is a complete design (and not something more akin to eASIC where you just design one layer), you would typically get on a shuttle (which would mean you would be saying "shuttle run is schedule and we should get sample chips to test and optimize our design in xx days).   Then you would spend the $800,000 to tape out a 28nm mask......
who knows?   That is what I am saying.   we do not know.    seems credible but who are the "competitors" that are scared if they know their progress?   If I am producing ASICs it does not matter when these guys ship.    It just changes the difficulty.   It does not help my chips come quicker....

KnC clearly said, that they go directly to a full-mask tape out, no Mulit-Project-Wafer (MPW) run first.
For a die size of > 100 mm2 an MPW run would cost almost the same as an full-mask tape out, because there will be not much area left on the shared reticle for other customers projects (especially if the foundry uses a 4-in-1 Multi-Layer-Reticle for the MPWs).

$800k for a 28nm full-mask set? This is an amazing offer, at which foundry will I get it that cheap?

[minternj]

KnC, please explain.

Whats there to explain? Two asic makers talking/meeting at a bitcoin conference. We've seen it before.

https://i.imgur.com/m36qE00.jpg

[sickpig]

KnC, please explain.

yдaлocь выяcнить, чтo y Джoшa ecть aккayнт в фeйcбyкe и oн тaм пишeт вcякoe.
нaпpимep вo втopник зaпocтил фoткy c кaким-тo xмыpeм, кoтopoгo oн нaзывaeт "нaйc гaй". Джoш cпpaвa.

BFL & KnC represent! Sam is a really nice guy!

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File size    : 50926 bytes
File date    : 2013:07:30 16:46:50
Resolution   : 640 x 480
Jpeg process : Progressive
Comment      : *?

[Gyrsur]

KnC, please explain.

Whats there to explain? Two asic makers talking/meeting at a bitcoin conference. We've seen it before.

https://i.imgur.com/m36qE00.jpg

does anyone have a confirmed shipment date?

EDIT: is refund possible with KnC?

[FUKT]

KnC, please explain.

yдaлocь выяcнить, чтo y Джoшa ecть aккayнт в фeйcбyкe и oн тaм пишeт вcякoe.
нaпpимep вo втopник зaпocтил фoткy c кaким-тo xмыpeм, кoтopoгo oн нaзывaeт "нaйc гaй". Джoш cпpaвa.

BFL & KnC represent! Sam is a really nice guy!

интepьep cтpaшный

I think what you mean is 'please explain' what you doing with that scumbag?

[erk]

does anyone have a confirmed shipment date?

EDIT: is refund possible with KnC?

Try actually searching this thread,  or simply reading this thread before you post, both these questions have been answered many times.

[inuyasha]

KnC, please explain.

yдaлocь выяcнить, чтo y Джoшa ecть aккayнт в фeйcбyкe и oн тaм пишeт вcякoe.
нaпpимep вo втopник зaпocтил фoткy c кaким-тo xмыpeм, кoтopoгo oн нaзывaeт "нaйc гaй". Джoш cпpaвa.

BFL & KnC represent! Sam is a really nice guy!
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/p480x480/556679_1403706953182518_251192158_n.jpg

интepьep cтpaшный

I think what you mean is 'please explain' what you doing with that scumbag?

keep your friends close, your enemies closer? :-)

[Gyrsur]

KnC, please explain.

yдaлocь выяcнить, чтo y Джoшa ecть aккayнт в фeйcбyкe и oн тaм пишeт вcякoe.
нaпpимep вo втopник зaпocтил фoткy c кaким-тo xмыpeм, кoтopoгo oн нaзывaeт "нaйc гaй". Джoш cпpaвa.

BFL & KnC represent! Sam is a really nice guy!


интepьep cтpaшный

I think what you mean is 'please explain' what you doing with that scumbag?

'please explain' means explain why taking a picture with a subject which represents a company which has no confirmed shipment dates and denies to give a refund if the customer (not the investor) want to have it.

[inuyasha]

does anyone have a confirmed shipment date?
EDIT: is refund possible with KnC?

hmm... apart from hijacking and quoting nonsense... I think KnC will refund you if they'll be late with delivery (saw it somewhere in this thread). Also I have my shipment date confirmed as: Status:Paid; Comment: This order has been scheduled for Shipping on day 2 of production. If you have a tracking number with your (paid!) order, put it in the tracking box @ the homepage of knc.

And yes, you should probably read the thread but without thread search (am I blind or it really isn't a feature?) and hundreds of pages it tends to be a real pain in proverbial backside... Especially with people quoting unrelated stuff and rambling about quoting unrelated stuff

[Gyrsur]

does anyone have a confirmed shipment date?
EDIT: is refund possible with KnC?

Also I have my shipment date confirmed as: Status:Paid; Comment: This order has been scheduled for Shipping on day 2 of production.

means nothing, could also mean day 2 of production sometime in December.

[Xialla]

well, if you are taking preorders for mining HW, posing with the biggest asshole in bitcoin universe is not superclever idea.)