Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[arlekyn13]

I'm still waiting for a refund in Bitcoin.

Here is the refund timeline thus far:

Feb 8th   : I requested a refund and provided bank transfer details.
Feb 13th : I sent a follow up message saying that I haven't received a response.
Feb 14th : Knc responded that they will need to provide the refund in BTC and asked for my BTC address. They said they will use the Bitstamp exchange rate at the time of refund.
Feb 14th : I responded with my refund BTC address.
Feb 17th : Knc responded that the refund would be processed shortly. The status of my orders changed to "Refund ready for process".

I will post an update when I actually receive the refund in BTC.

Interesting-did you pay in fiat initially? How many units?
Does this mean that refund in BTC is a default option now? I would actually welcome refund in BTC if I ever request it.

It's not default, I have had several refunded in USD, though paid for in BTC.
Good to know this is also an option though (shame it's not gox price)

Well, gox price is no longer a correct mark since long ago Speaking for myself, I actually sent my bank info when I requested the refund, but I was told I'll get BTC instead because I used Bitapy to pay for my orders. The email didn't sound like an option, but was rather imperative. At first I even thought they might intend to return the exact same amount of BTC I originally sent, but I was quickly enlighten that the amount will be the $$ value of my orders at Bitstamp's rate at the moment of refund taking place. I also was more than happy to receive the refund in BTC, thus saving some banking fees

P.S. This is indeed the first positive ROI I obtained on KNC gear. Still an unrecoverable amount remaining from my Oct batch

[soy]

I'm still waiting for a refund in Bitcoin.

Here is the refund timeline thus far:

Feb 8th   : I requested a refund and provided bank transfer details.
Feb 13th : I sent a follow up message saying that I haven't received a response.
Feb 14th : Knc responded that they will need to provide the refund in BTC and asked for my BTC address. They said they will use the Bitstamp exchange rate at the time of refund.
Feb 14th : I responded with my refund BTC address.
Feb 17th : Knc responded that the refund would be processed shortly. The status of my orders changed to "Refund ready for process".

I will post an update when I actually receive the refund in BTC.

Interesting-did you pay in fiat initially? How many units?
Does this mean that refund in BTC is a default option now? I would actually welcome refund in BTC if I ever request it.

It's not default, I have had several refunded in USD, though paid for in BTC.
Good to know this is also an option though (shame it's not gox price)

I asked and was told the btc refund option was for the customers with large orders.

[kendog77]

I'm still waiting for a refund in Bitcoin.

Here is the refund timeline thus far:

Feb 8th   : I requested a refund and provided bank transfer details.
Feb 13th : I sent a follow up message saying that I haven't received a response.
Feb 14th : Knc responded that they will need to provide the refund in BTC and asked for my BTC address. They said they will use the Bitstamp exchange rate at the time of refund.
Feb 14th : I responded with my refund BTC address.
Feb 17th : Knc responded that the refund would be processed shortly. The status of my orders changed to "Refund ready for process".

I will post an update when I actually receive the refund in BTC.

Interesting-did you pay in fiat initially? How many units?
Does this mean that refund in BTC is a default option now? I would actually welcome refund in BTC if I ever request it.

I just received a full refund in BTC at the Bitstamp exchange rate. I paid in BTC originally, but Knc immediately converted that to fiat via Bitpay.

Perhaps I was spoiled by Bitmain, but it's hard to justify paying 10k for a 3 TH Neptune pre-order that likely won't be delivered in the next 2 months when I could get 1.8 TH from Bitmain for 10k that was delivered last week.

I suspect the Chinese hardware manufacturers will continue to put downward pressure on Bitcoin mining hardware prices.

I would have gladly traded each of my day 1 Neptune pre-orders for 3 Jupiters that were delivered immediately, but sadly Knc did not provide that option.

I hope Bitmain lowers prices and offers another batch of Antminers for sale in the near future...  

[pedrosoft]

and so knc converted price in usd to btc with actual exchange rate of bitstamp.... right ?

[kendog77]

and so knc converted price in usd to btc with actual exchange rate of bitstamp.... right ?

Correct

[pedrosoft]

and so knc converted price in usd to btc with actual exchange rate of bitstamp.... right ?

Correct

why have you asked for a refund ?

[joeventura]

No one will be shipped a Neptune... ever.  We won't be given any option other than 3THs hosted mining for a year (six months, maybe) in some massive aircraft hanger on the frozen tundra.  Mark my words.

0.1 BTC bet on that?

No thanks and I hope I'm wrong.

But......

I just have this hunch.  I've never been one to believe in conspiracy theories and the like.  But I am almost completely convinced that not only will we never get to physically touch a Neptune but KNC will never actually produce them. <snip>

Oh they will produce them, at the deadline everyone will get the 3TH of Cloud hashing

at the Deadline plus 1 month the Neptunes will show up in the Tundra data center and KNCCLOUD.COM will be born.

Doubt me? Go do a Whois on KNCCLOUD.com and see who owns that domain.
Wait let me save you the time:

Domain Name: KNCCLOUD.COM
Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com
Registrant Name: Samuel Cole
Registrant Organization: KncMiner AB
Name Server: NS05.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
Name Server: NS06.DOMAINCONTROL.COM

That's how you build a cloudhashing company with a built in customer base

Have a nice day!  

[kendog77]

and so knc converted price in usd to btc with actual exchange rate of bitstamp.... right ?

Correct

why have you asked for a refund ?

Because Knc is too ambiguous with their delivery dates and was a bit disingenuous with how they handled the Neptune and plan B. They promise a Q1/Q2 delivery, which is anytime between today and June 30th. I think Neptune buyers will do OK if they get 3TH in March, but after that there will likely be better options available.

Also, I paid for a Neptune, and not to build a mega Jupiter mining farm, so I feel a bit mislead that KNC is using Neptune funds to build Jupiters as fast as they can for their hosting facility, and not offering any for sale to previous customers.

Knc keeps saying that they want to build long term relationships with their customers, but their actions say otherwise.

[Cablez]

I had asked about the BTC refund when I refunded and was told it was Bank Wire only except under certain conditions.  Those conditions were never revealed to me by the way, so who knows?

[Cablez]

I had asked about the BTC refund when I refunded and was told it was Bank Wire only except under certain conditions.  Those conditions were never revealed to me by the way, so who knows?

How many Neptunes did you have on order?

Someone mentioned BTC refunds were for "larger" orders.

That may be it as this was only for a single unit.

[1Neptune]

Question: Has anyone requested a refund and got this refund in BITCOINS??

Yes. Refund requested last Wednesday, BTC received today @$630 rate (most likely the exact Bitstamp exchange rate at the time the transfer took place)

I would take it that KnC is providing refunds in BTC as it's cheaper than doing so in dollars. The dollar cost of BTC has dropped since the orders were made and paid. They should refund in the same specie which was used for payment.

[arlekyn13]

"I would take it that KnC is providing refunds in BTC as it's cheaper than doing so in dollars."

Wrong. It's the same for them. Unless they were paying banking fees, not the receiving customer. Otherwise the customer receives the same amount of $$ he originally paid, converted into BTC at the rate the refund occurs.

[1Neptune]

"I would take it that KnC is providing refunds in BTC as it's cheaper than doing so in dollars."

Wrong. It's the same for them. Unless they were paying banking fees, not the receiving customer. Otherwise the customer receives the same amount of $$ he originally paid, converted into BTC at the rate the refund occurs.

"Unless they were paying banking fees, not the receiving customer."

Right. The sender pays the wire transfer fees and almost always the receiver is also charged a fee by their bank. Money changers in the temple of commerce, remember? Greedy bankers get their cut on both ends of the transaction.

Refunding in BTC being less expensive than dollars was my original point, regarding wire transfer fees and exchange fees to convert dollars into BTC. However, KnC isn't likely having to exchange any dollars into BTC, having mined 5% or much more, so RIGHT, yes, it's cheaper to refund in BTC than in dollars for several reasons.

[Grix]

Hi folks, time for another reality check using very conservative numbers:

Assumptions & Numbers:
1) Delivery date:  05/31/2014
2) Hash: 3 TH
4) Power: 1500  @0.15 rate
5) Start difficulty(assuming +20% per):  3,129,573,175 * 1.2^7 = 11213826512
6) Difficulty increase thereafter: 10% (0.06 profitability decline factor)
7) BTC/USD: $620
8 ) Neptune cost: $10000

Profitability after 12 month: -1792.58 USD (LOSS)

---------------
Pro:  
1) Delivered hashrate may be higher than the stated 3 TH

Con(risk):
1) End of may delivery
2) Difficulty increase may be >10% thereafter (given the massive TH boxes coming online)
3) Time resource to setup/maintain hardware
4) Power consumption may be 1500W

Conclusion:
1) You must be batsh** crazy to preorder this hardware.

Those are not very conservative numbers. I'd say a good but very plausible scenario is 3500Ghps speed, 8-10b difficulty at delivery time and on average 5% or less difficulty increase from there on out. Plus the bitcoin value is currently in a post-crash valley.

[joeventura]

Gee I wonder how they are refunding,

Is it in BTC if we paid in BTC,
or Fiat if we paid in BTC or
Fiat if we paid in Fiat,
or clam shells if we paid in beads....


You all sound like a bunch of old women.

If only there was a way you could get an answer to these questions............

ASK KNC

Stop postulating, and speculating. They have a phone and they actually answer emails pretty quickly.

You ALL are getting the Cloudhashing option. ALL OF YOU.

Now that you know that, make a decision.  All those who are early adopters, you are getting screwed unless you get a refund.

How could you not ask for a refund? The math is clear that you will not make back your investment and even if you made back $500 you still are screwed.

Does anyone know what Net Present value of Money is or what it means??

NPV can be described as the “difference amount” between the sums of discounted: cash inflows and cash outflows. It compares the present value of money today to the present value of money in the future, taking inflation and returns into account

[organofcorti]

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.

[joeventura]

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.

Ok well which is it?

[organofcorti]

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.

Ok well which is it?

Which prices are given on the website? I'm at work, and anything bitcoin related (apart from btctalk, weirdly) is blocked.

[joeventura]

If prices are denominated in fiat and bitcoin payments are not the only payment method available, then refunds should be in fiat.

If prices are denominated in btc, and btc is the only method of payment provided, then refunds should be in btc.

Ok well which is it?

Which prices are given on the website? I'm at work, and anything bitcoin related (apart from btctalk, weirdly) is blocked.

Prices are quoted in FIAT

Payments are either FIAT via Bank Transfer or via Bitcoin


So it would stand to reason that if you paid for a $10,000 item in Bitcoin you would get back $10,000 worth of Bitcoin
and if you did a bank transfer of $10,000 you would get back $10,000 via a bank transfer.


So here is a question for you, Do you have a Neptune on order right now?

[wasubii]

Well, gox price is no longer a correct mark since long ago Speaking for myself, I actually sent my bank info when I requested the refund, but I was told I'll get BTC instead because I used Bitapy to pay for my orders. The email didn't sound like an option, but was rather imperative. At first I even thought they might intend to return the exact same amount of BTC I originally sent, but I was quickly enlighten that the amount will be the $$ value of my orders at Bitstamp's rate at the moment of refund taking place. I also was more than happy to receive the refund in BTC, thus saving some banking fees

P.S. This is indeed the first positive ROI I obtained on KNC gear. Still an unrecoverable amount remaining from my Oct batch

Aye - Same here