Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[ScaryHash]

You ever think he might be trying to find a way out of this & is still in limbo of what he can devulge to us

Just do what you gotta do,I have confidence things will work out.Until Y I FU ships chips or refunds,what choice is there.................

BTW,I waited over a year for my BFL unit & had communication the whole way from BFL/Josh.To me this is "a walk in the park " 

I don't see how he should take 3 weeks to get the chip refunds in order, while SebastianJu and Zefir handled it to full conclusion in a matter of days.

Stop glorifying steamboat, he's doing a shit job.

What's the point of "communication" if the end result does not change?

So, you had a year's worth of communication from BFL? How did the communication change the result from January to March, if no shipping? What about the communication in March? Did it change the end result in April? I highly doubt it, because I have BFL stuff on order too. Nothing has changed, month to month. So, communication with nothing new is absolutely worthless.

Why do you need an update every other day? To communicate that nothing has changed? That's worthless.

Obviously, nothing has changed since the last update, so what is there to report? That more people are waiting for the refund? That Yifu isn't doing jack?

I really do not see the point of all this vitriol. You want personal, up to the minute service? Get a dog that will hang around and give you updates every minute.

[Unacceptable]

You ever think he might be trying to find a way out of this & is still in limbo of what he can devulge to us

Just do what you gotta do,I have confidence things will work out.Until Y I FU ships chips or refunds,what choice is there.................

BTW,I waited over a year for my BFL unit & had communication the whole way from BFL/Josh.To me this is "a walk in the park " 

I don't see how he should take 3 weeks to get the chip refunds in order, while SebastianJu and Zefir handled it to full conclusion in a matter of days.

Stop glorifying steamboat, he's doing a shit job.

What's the point of "communication" if the end result does not change?

So, you had a year's worth of communication from BFL? How did the communication change the result from January to March, if no shipping? What about the communication in March? Did it change the end result in April? I highly doubt it, because I have BFL stuff on order too. Nothing has changed, month to month. So, communication with nothing new is absolutely worthless.

Why do you need an update every other day? To communicate that nothing has changed? That's worthless.

Obviously, nothing has changed since the last update, so what is there to report? That more people are waiting for the refund? That Yifu isn't doing jack?

I really do not see the point of all this vitriol. You want personal, up to the minute service? Get a dog that will hang around and give you updates every minute.

+1,Thank you !!! 

Best of luck on your BFL order!!!!! If my order over there was after June 31,I would've refunded........but I had a first day order,June 23RD,it was a bitch waiting,but I got my 30GH for $650 

[Boxman90]

What's the point of "communication" if the end result does not change?

So, you had a year's worth of communication from BFL? How did the communication change the result from January to March, if no shipping? What about the communication in March? Did it change the end result in April? I highly doubt it, because I have BFL stuff on order too. Nothing has changed, month to month. So, communication with nothing new is absolutely worthless.

Why do you need an update every other day? To communicate that nothing has changed? That's worthless.

Obviously, nothing has changed since the last update, so what is there to report? That more people are waiting for the refund? That Yifu isn't doing jack?

I really do not see the point of all this vitriol. You want personal, up to the minute service? Get a dog that will hang around and give you updates every minute.

My concern isn't that Yifu isn't doing jack (as he cleary is, lots of proof that he does indeed send refunds), my concern is that steamboat isn't doing jack.

He's taking multiple weeks for a job that other groupbuy organizers had handled and finished within a few days. That alone is reason enough to be concerned. There is no reason _at all_ for him to not have received a refund from Yifu by now.

In the meantime, we just need to get people on board so we can put legal pressure on him if he choosed to keep doing fuckall.

[chsados]

Steamboat... you really need to make an announcement.  There is absolutely at least 10k worth of chips refund requests as when I was doing the google doc it was nearly complete.

[wrenchmonkey]

This sucks , SB used to be so nice in the past ...

They're always nice, and super-helpful, when they're TAKING your money...  

[cardcomm]

At this point, even if he is working out a deal to obtain gen2 chips to still be able to utilize the assembly process.  I still wouldn't take it.  My options:

If chip refunds are supplied AND parts/assembly are not refundable then I say give me chip refund and send me my parts that I paid for -- since there is no refund.  I wouldn't allow SB to keep the parts with no refund.

Agreed. If assembly if NOT refundable, I'd like an exact accounting of what the purchasers of full assembly will actually be receiving. If I'm not getting a refund, I damn well expect my parts!

Not that I expect this issue to actually be addressed, should SB ever decide to grace us with his presence.

[hoss]

During the chip purchase phases of this adventure I remember seeing a routinely updated ‘current count’ of remaining chips per batch.  Followed by steamboat saying something along the lines of ‘all emails and PM’s have been replayed to…etc…’  I do not recall more than a 48hr laps of such updates.  (there may have been, but for sure not 8 days)

Currently we have no status update as to how many chips have been requested for a refund, how close we are to closing a batch for refund, OR EVEN IF OUR FUCKING REFUND REQUEST AND WALLET SIGNATURE WAS RECEIVED PROPERLY!! As you can tell I am growing impatient with the lack of communication...

Steamboat I'm begging you, don't make me go rouge on you.... just give us what you got now now.


PS. the sheet is looking overly optimistic for this first 2 week round
We are for sure at: 102,277,220 with ~808 blocks left. Sheet projected 111,933,018 (25mill+). From my past exp. of watching http://bitcoinwatch.com/ the current 'Next Difficulty' is what it will be 'next' if mining resumed down to the blue line for the rest of the 2 week round... In other words 111,933,018+ is almost a sure thing at this point.


The sheet - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah7ZJVoobFY7dDRGQk1kdmJmaUJwZENKZUdNejJlWEE&usp=sharing

[rammy2k2]

i think we're the only group with no communication around here ... steamboat .. what the F man ...?

[andrewsg]

Because we're not really getting any communication here, just wondering if we have some blockchain vigilantes among us with some time to check whether Avalon has refunded some of the orders to Steamboat. I'm not sure if they are refunding to the sending address, but we could use zefir's and sebastian's refunds for reference.

[driksson]

Because we're not really getting any communication here, just wondering if we have some blockchain vigilantes among us with some time to check whether Avalon has refunded some of the orders to Steamboat. I'm not sure if they are refunding to the sending address, but we could use zefir's and sebastian's refunds for reference.

only public wallet of his with coins in it i believe is batch 6:
https://blockchain.info/address/1JFYtJKcfqXPKijyo3DceT5en5RnswpAwC
262.8 BTC.
Last transaction exactly 30 days ago.. Maybe thats the sum of his profits for all batches?

[steamboat]

Please look for an email from the asicbuy[at]gmail[dot]com email address. The subject is incorrectly labeled "test". Below is a transcript of the message:

Update

I would like to begin by apologizing for the lack of timely communication the last couple of weeks. Our goal is to bring professionalism and honesty to the bitcoin marketplace, and no matter the reason, I have failed to provide adequate and timely customer service. For that I apologize.

Chip refunds:
We have requested and received refunds for Batches 5 and 6. We have also processed and verified those orders which were submitted correctly on the form. The chip refund process has been delayed due to a large number of requests which have failed verification, duplicate requests, and phishing attempts. The bitcointalk forum thread will be updated with instructions for successfully submitting a signed message. We will be sending out refunds over the next few days, and will continue to process any future chip refunds requests.

Our efforts to negotiate a discounted rate for the 110nm chips with Mr. Yifu Guo of Bitsyncom to compensate for delivery delays have failed. He has suggested processing a refund for all orders and offered a discounted rate for the 55nm chips which he has tentatively suggested will be available for purchase in mid to late November. It is unclear what changes will be required to integrate the new chip into the design, or when the datasheet and sample chips required for rework will be made available. We do not have a definitive timeline for chip availability, lead time for delivery after payment, customer priority status, performance data, pricing structure and competitive analysis, or contract outlining the purchase details and discount.  We have requested this information and are awaiting Yifu’s reply.

Assembly update:
The assembly house has programmed the pick and place equipment, fabricated the necessary project specific materials, and produced the first articles of the Fusion 16 based on the Klondike design. The units have successfully passed quality control, and the design is ready for full production.

We do not however have a fully functioning K16 at this time.

We have organized the collaborative efforts of ourselves, two Klondike based assembly companies, and several individuals within the community with software and hardware debugging experience to troubleshoot the design. As a result, we have determined the source of and corrected the hardware flaw resulting in proof of work not being read correctly, and the units are now hashing on a single bank of 8 chips at a time. We are actively troubleshooting the firmware issue which causes errors when both banks of chips are used at the same time. We will continue to debug the design until it is fully functional, and will be sending units to several people working on the project, in addition to those we have already shipped, for further troubleshooting. Currently updating the firmware does require a PIC programmer and does not support updating via USB.

Assembly Refunds:
The majority of the funds received for assembly have been disbursed in the process of fulfilling our duties and responsibilities to ensure we were prepared to assemble the units by the original delivery date of the Avalon chips.

Due to the open source nature of the design, delays in its completion, and the addition of PCB level components required to function properly, a significant portion of the materials necessary for manufacture were purchased at or above retail and in quantities far greater than required to mitigate any chance of assembly delays due to lack of materials. A considerable portion of these costs were subsidized by ourselves, which have not been recouped. 

In addition to the licensing fees paid for use of the Klondike design used in our assembly service, we have been an active participant in its development from the projects inception; committing considerable time, materials, and funding to the project. We have continued to support development of the design after the initial hardware phase by organizing the collaborative efforts of three separate Klondike-based assembly companies together with software and hardware engineers from the bitcoin community in order to test, debug, verify, and optimize the design.

We were able to source and cost effectively purchase several of the accessory components used in our design. These successes were mitigated by the increased costs due to the time constraints of the original chip delivery date. We were unwilling to allow assembly and shipping delays due to a lack of materials, and instead chose to purchase and ship all components with rush processing and expedited shipping. The greatest of these increased costs was the shipping fees for the roughly one ton of heatsinks required, which was rush processed and shipped via two day air freight express to guarantee there were no delays.

The manufacturer providing PCB assembly was chosen based on their skill, professionalism, and ability to work together with us to provide the highest quality product possible in the shortest amount of time, at the expense of greatly increased production costs.  The decision was made to reduce the possibility of poor production performance rather than increase our profit margin, which has already proven invaluable. The majority of the costs associated with assembly occur before the main run is ever produced, which we have already submitted. The assembly house has analyzed the design, received, inventoried, and prepared the parts for production, fabricated all necessary project specific materials, programmed the equipment, produced the first articles, and continues to refine and troubleshoot the process to reduce the chance of delays and increase the quality of the product. All of these costs are non-refundable. The assembly house has performed its duties superbly, including spending additional resources to assist us which were not included, and cannot be expected or required to provide a refund for work which they have already completed.

The operating expenses incurred in order to provide this service are not insignificant. There are appreciable physical and material costs required to function as a business. The labor costs of sourcing each component, organizing delivery timelines, establishing production processes, developing the website and payment system, organizing and maintaining the administrative tools and processes, providing customer service (albeit admittedly slow and unresponsive at times), and receiving, inventorying, and assembling parts have largely been subsidized by several members of the team working for significantly reduced rates. Forum member Steamboat, Steve, has not received any compensation for his efforts in providing the assembly service.
We have not let any time go to waste throughout this process. Once it was clear the original delivery date for the chips would not be met, and we realized there was a strong possibility of multiple batches showing up at our door unannounced, we began prepping all of the included accessory components and refining our receiving, assembly, packaging, and shipping processes. We also chose to increase the value of the original product with components we had not had the time to source and receive, funded by reducing our profit margin and the assembly cost savings gained from greater assembly volume. Throughout this period we continued to pursue information regarding the status of the chips which until recently has been met with silence.

As a result, there currently remains roughly 20% of the total funds accepted to date which have not already been disbursed in the process of fulfilling our duties to produce the units our customers have purchased, which is earmarked to cover a portion of the remaining costs of producing and shipping the units, the remainder of which will be subsidized by us. The assembly costs for those customers who wish to accept the finished units once the ASIC chips arrive will increase as a result of the reduced quantity produced due to assembly refunds, which we will also subsidize.

Due to the production costs we have incurred to date, and future costs necessary to fulfill our obligations as outlined above, we can only offer a 25% refund of assembly costs, and 100% refund of hosting and shipping fees at this time. We will be refunding our batch purchase of ASICs in order to finance the balance of the production costs and refund requests.

Moving forward:
In light of our failure to negotiate the discounted delivery of the 110nm Avalon chip orders, and the current status of the Klondike firmware, we cannot in good conscience ask or expect our customers to continue with assembly once the chips do arrive. We will process any orders for those that wish to continue with assembly, and our policy of not forcing anyone to accept a refund still stands. We will also continue support the completion of the Klondike design and firmware.

The most cost effective and efficient way to recover the nonrefundable losses sustained is to reuse as much of the materials purchased as possible in a board redesign using a more efficient chip. We are currently evaluating the possibility of a board level redesign using the same form factor which will allow us to reuse the majority of the current design’s accessory components, and likely portions of the board level components. While we have been contacted regarding this possibility by a promising engineering team, research on the viability of a redesign is still in its infancy, and there are no guarantees it of our success. That being said, it is in our best interest to produce a competitive product which reuses the existing stock as quickly as possible, and we will be devoting all available resources to do so. 

In the event we are successful in redesigning the board, and can negotiate a fair and competitive price for the chips to be used with a verifiable delivery date, all customers who purchased assembly will be credited the full value of the components reused in producing the new units, in addition to a heavily discounted rate for the balance. We do not currently have any information regarding the final cost of the redesigned unit, which manufacturer’s chip the design will be based on, performance data, or availability at this time.

In the event we are unable to produce a redesigned unit, those customers which purchased assembly will have the option of receiving the components purchased for production of the original units if they so choose.

To say the current situation is not optimal is an understatement, and all parties involved have incurred significant losses. As stated previously, we do not plan on giving up, and will continue to weather this storm and do everything in our power to rectify the situation.

I will do my absolute best to provide timely updates moving forward, even if just to assure you that we’re still here.

[nightengale]

I personally have no interest in the next gen of chips, but the buyers had better use an escrow with a **short** timeline.

This wholly sucks.

[BitCsByBit]

I agree...This wholly sucks!

[professorY]

Thanks for the update, Steamboat.

While I personally have no interest in next gen chips either, if I can have my chips refunded along with 25% of the assembly/100% of the hosting fees, as you stated, then I'm okay with that. Is it ideal? Of course not. But it's a loss I can live with.

[bigbeninlondon]

The most cost effective and efficient way to recover the nonrefundable losses sustained is to reuse as much of the materials purchased as possible in a board redesign using a more efficient chip. We are currently evaluating the possibility of a board level redesign using the same form factor which will allow us to reuse the majority of the current design’s accessory components, and likely portions of the board level components. While we have been contacted regarding this possibility by a promising engineering team, research on the viability of a redesign is still in its infancy, and there are no guarantees it of our success. That being said, it is in our best interest to produce a competitive product which reuses the existing stock as quickly as possible, and we will be devoting all available resources to do so.  

Thanks steamboat.

I've applied for refunds for batch 3 and batch 5.  I've already paid for assembly.  I will be sticking it out for the next iteration of steamboat assembly.  Will you be starting a new thread?  Will you be attempting to track requests to move forward?  How will this be organized?  I understand this is a bit early yet since, as you say, the redesign is still in its infancy, but I would hope that getting a leg up on the next phase would be a high priority.  

To all of you who kept trying to pull your pitchforks out, I hope that steamboat's massive updates continue to communicate to you not only their contents, but the dedication steamboat has to this community.  This process was wrenched forcefully out of steamboat's hands, and he has no choice but to make the best of a bad situation.  Steamboat has demonstrated OVER and OVER that he's trustworthy and dedicated to the cause.  So please continue to have faith; steamboat will always attempt to make everything right.

[driksson]

Ok, thanks for the update. Still waiting for the refund of chips order though.

[Rakessh]

Link to refund form?

[nightengale]

Is there any way to determine whether our refund form was submitted correctly with the signed message... or... do we just blindly wait for a refund and hope it appears in our wallets?

[intense]

So here's the cost breakdown for my order (Batch 4) for each k16 (16 chips) which was paid on the 26th of June, (assuming $104.5 USD / BTC).

1.376 BTC = 16 Chips
1.278 BTC = 1 Board
0.765 BTC = Shipping ($79.95 priority international option)

And assuming that we only get 95% of the chip costs back and 25% of the assembly cost back it works out to be:

1.3072 BTC / 16 chips
0.3195 BTC / Board Assembly
0.765 Shipping

I actually ordered 3 k16's (48 chips) which cost me a total of 9.0196 BTC
If I opt in for the refund and the above is correct I'd get back 5.6451 BTC (37% loss on investment)

If a new chip is found to be useable on a modified k16 unit, would there be a further refund on parts which were purchased for this group buy, or a credit to those of us that stay the course?

[andrewsg]

Is there any way to determine whether our refund form was submitted correctly with the signed message... or... do we just blindly wait for a refund and hope it appears in our wallets?

Good point, but to be fair, separate confirmation requires more processing on Steamboat's side - he has to process hundreds of refunds manually. People will post on this thread once refunds start coming in - if you don't get yours and there has been no further communication from Steamboat, you should probably get in touch.