[DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated

[markm]

Presumably we'd also inherit their expert analysis of which changes are forking ones that need to come into effect at a certain block number, as we'd see that when they changed their fee they did or did not do it as a change set to come into effect at a certain block.

For some ideological reason, a lot of bitcoin people want free transactions, which is a mistake because all transactions, no matter how legitimate, add to blockchain bloat. It's a mistake which altcoin developers have to fix.

Yes I agree, bitcoin got painted into a corner by their existing marketing all over the web etc much of which could not be changed (gosh knows who made this that or the other webpage or article or press release etc, good luck getting all the newspapers to publish retractions or whatever etc etc etc) claiming transactions were free, then later that transactions could be free and even when not free were negligible cost and on and on backpedalling.

-MarkM-

[markm]

When you send coins it has to use existing outputs from existing transactions to make up the amount.

Often of course no existing outputs add up to the desired amount.

Thus it uses previous outputs that add up to more than enough, and sends "the change" to a new "change address" that it creates for the purpose of receiving your change.

I have heard that clients nowadays automatically "re-scan" the blockchain when they need to, but certainly the older code did not do that and I am nor convinced the new ones can always tell if you switched the wallet. So in the past you always had to deliberately tell it to re-scan if you switched the wallet out from under it. Such as when you import a key.

TO tell it to re-scan you start it with -rescan as one of the switches on its command-line.

(In a GUI the command-line is usually one of the "properties" of the shortcut or icon or menu-item; the command-line that it in effect types for you behind the scenes when you click that shortcut or icon or menu-item.)

I used to always have -rescan on the commandline in my "start the daemon" script just in case the reason I was having to start the thing was that a power outage or reboot had killed the one that had previously been running, possibly leaving the wallet in an inconsistent state or something. It is this usage of -rescan that I have been told is not needed in recent clients; supposedly the client or daemon should notice for itself if it is in an inconsistent state due to having crashed/died previously. Merely importing a key might not trigger a rescan, I do not know but I would think it would be awkward to automatically re-scan when someone imports a key because they might have another key and another key and another key and so on that they want to import before finally being ready to do the re-scan, and it would be very painful to have to wait for a full re-scan between each key and the next.

I have always used an external tool to import keys too, so I close down the daemon, use a tool to import a key or bunch of keys, then restart with -rescan so it will re-scan the blockchain to check for any transactions involving any keys in the wallet thus find any balance associated with the added keys.

-MarkM-

[sidhujag]

The rescan is default true to the importprivkey function in the new client.

[sidhujag]

Fired up the old devcoin wallet and tried to send 10 dvc says I need to pay 6 dvc fee same as new client.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/devcoin/files/feeolddvc.PNG/download

[sidhujag]

Success!

1) started old client, funded with 1000 coins from my vcx account
2) Sent 100 coins back to vcx using old client, confirmed on next block
3) Upgraded to v1.0.8 client, wallet upgraded automatically
4) Ran new client, sent 200 coins to my vcx account, confirmed on next block

So transactions are compatible between clients... last step is to merge mine a block with the new client and see that both old and new clients pick it up.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/devcoin/files/txacceptnewdvc.PNG/download

[Hunterbunter]

Which brings me to hey how about a bounty for a tool one can use to say "place orders on each and every satoshi of price if possible, if not as many satoshis of price as possible, evenly spread starting at this low price going up to this high price using this many coins" ?

Basically I am spending 16+ hour days manually typing in on Vircurex offers at every satoshi of price, not just on devcoins (I already did them long ago) but now also on IXCoins and I0Coins and hey what the heck even on DOGE. In general I think it would be beneficial if all coins had offers at all possible prices, no empty satoshis of price inbetween.

I looked in Virturex FAQ for frequently asked questions about their API but didn't even see "do you even have an API" listed there.

Hey Markm,

Vircurex's API is horrible...and it's made even worse by their incalculable need to release every order after it's been created.

As a side note they also only let you have 100 open positions at any one time (according to their API page), which means you could only really have 100 santoshis difference between the lowest and highest prices, and if you're creating buy as well as sell orders, it's only really 50 santoshis either way. Seeing as you've put in lots of orders already, does this mean you have hundreds/thousands of open orders on vircurex? Also, is it more important for you to set the price in 1 santoshi increments, or set the range (eg 50-350 santoshis) with it working out the increments itself?

If you think the most useful tool would be a 100 santoshi range finder, what I'm imagining is something like this:

<choose exchange, but for now it's going to default to vircurex>
enter first currency
enter second currency
enter min price
delete all open orders
create 100 orders depending on min price compared to market price - if it's less, create buy orders instead of sell.

Is that what you're after? If you know for a fact vircurex lets you have more than 100 open orders total (against all the different currency pairs), then of course that last line would be set to a range the user decides.

[Wekkel]

I emptied the 'hidden' addresses of the Windows wallet. Now with a fresh new Windows wallet (1MfVpeJrNn28gfWm2duxTwV4pbDSEGPakB) that has succeeded to sent to and receive from an old client (Linux). Therefore, this test was completed 100%

I cannot test migrating from an old windows client to a new windows client.

Don't use my old DVC address anymore (18GCTJhxrWfXjnLwwjJKsSYBpyEV16pRsB, which is now 0 DVC).

[markm]

As a side note they also only let you have 100 open positions at any one time (according to their API page), which means you could only really have 100 santoshis difference between the lowest and highest prices, and if you're creating buy as well as sell orders, it's only really 50 santoshis either way. Seeing as you've put in lots of orders already, does this mean you have hundreds/thousands of open orders on vircurex? Also, is it more important for you to set the price in 1 santoshi increments, or set the range (eg 50-350 santoshis) with it working out the increments itself?

I have many hundreds of open orders.

I have many on the same price, even, because I have started back at one satoshi all over again many times by now.

I post my offers manually though, not via the API. Maybe the API has limitations the website/webpage version doesn't.

Heck I just started back at one satoshi again today and am still in the process of filling each satoshi of price yet again on the buy side.

Yes it is important to fill every satoshi of price, because otherwise people try to break, to sit on a price you didn't sit on yet.

If there are no prices sitting empty except where the buys meet the sells - in the "spread" region - they tend to go there, which means you can kind of hint them along.

There is a bot it seems for example on the I0Coin and IXCoin markets on Vircurex that very annoyingly tends to refuse to let even a tiny little offer get in front of it in the sense of being closer to the spread region that it is.

It keeps three batches of coins on hand to sell, and if you place an offer at a lower sell price than it's lowest sell price it cancels the highest price of its three orders and put it one satoshi lower in price than your offer.

Even if it is dealing with a few thousand at a time and you place an offer to sell only ten, it seemingly cannot stand the idea that you might get to sell your ten whatevers before it has managed to sell its few thousand. But if you place offers at every satoshi way down toward the spread-region, you can sometimes manage to get your offer to stick, maybe because it does not want to sell for less than it bought for or something.

Rather than play cancel-and-re-offer with it, just putting offers on every satoshi lets me get tons of offers in on the whole range it tries to play leapfrog with, so ultimately my average sell price is higher than the sell price it ends up leapfrogging its way down to.

On the buy side, the purpose is to uphold the price/value of the coin, so having an offer on every satoshi means every satoshi of price is going to cost who-ever tries to drive the price down. There are no freebies, each and every satoshi they want to drive the price down is going to cost them.

I have lately been placing offers to buy one or ten million divided by the satoshis of price, so that each satoshi they try to drive it down will cost them more (of what they are selling) than the previous satoshi of price did.

If you look at many order books, often it seems the opposite: everyone is crowding their buy offers up near the highest price, as soon as that thin crust is broken, the so called resistance maybe could be what it is I do not know the terminology really, but once the people clamouring to buy at high prices are sold to often from there on down is a crash waiting to happen, hardly anyone apparently wants to buy for low prices. No wonder we see crashes so often in cryptocoin, everyone apparently wants to buy high and failing that not buy at all!

Similarly on the sell side: everyone wants to sell cheap, but once you buy that thin crust of cheap sell offers, it is thin air going way the heck up, so prices seem to skyrocket because so few people, so far between, want to sell for high prices!

-MarkM-

[emfox]

ok, so now I've removed the bitcoinadvertiser ad from faucet, cheers.

[smeagol]

Shakezula made the first post for altcoincards.com for the giftcard site reviewing bounty outlined here: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now#gift_card:
See his review: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg4002612#msg4002612

And weisoq made the second post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=233997.msg4192146#msg4192146

This entitles them two 2 shares and 1 share, respectively.  The giftcard business reviewing bounty is finished for http://altcoincards.com/

As they both bought Barnes and Noble gift cards, and it is only one type of card, altcoin cards is only eligible for 12 shares.

Also, as the funding period has ended for the MiniMetalMaker (http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/minimetalmaker-a-small-3d-printer-that-fabricates-with-metal-clay), this buying bounty (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now#minimetalmaker_purchase) will not be available until the 3D printer is purchasable again.

[Athanasios Motok]

Sorry that I have not been able to respond to your PMs, admins.

Please email me at -----@----.--- if there is something you need to tell me.

Thank you!

EDIT: i will PM admins my email, sorry to the person below me!

[notabot]

I would advise that all communication between parties be done with bitcointalk messages. To admins (and others), there can be serious issues arising from giving out your personal email address, unless it is a party you trust, and that should be private. The main issue is that it enables (potentially) part of your ID to be pieced together.

The poster above might have done this by mistake, and he should also be warned the same thing about posting personal email addresses on forums. Not only do you invite spam but also potentially the same issues. If you are on bitcointalk you can use PM's, email's can compromise anonymity.

[smeagol]

I would advise that all communication between parties be done with bitcointalk messages. To admins (and others), there can be serious issues arising from giving out your personal email address, unless it is a party you trust, and that should be private. The main issue is that it enables (potentially) part of your ID to be pieced together.

The poster above might have done this by mistake, and he should also be warned the same thing about posting personal email addresses on forums. Not only do you invite spam but also potentially the same issues. If you are on bitcointalk you can use PM's, email's can compromise anonymity.

This could be fixed with the cryptocoin forum with email bounty.  When you want to email a user, only the username is visible, and the message is sent to the recipient's email, without it being revealed.

@Everyone:
I have a question about shares.  Sometimes, a share is something odd, like 543,792.  How can shares be paid out if blocks can only be split into as little as 9,000 coins?  Would your payout be rounded to the nearest multiple of 9000?

[smeagol]

Sorry for the double post, but I am announcing something bounty-related.

Since there were no objections, the share distribution here is now finalized:

Tagbond: 9 shares for devcoin integration
Sidhujag: 6 shares for working with Mark to get devcoin onto tag bonds exchange
EEh: 3 for tagbond site http://devcoin.tagbond.com/

This bounty is now active: (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now&#vircurex_order_spread_api_call_or_bot) <-- Why are there question symbols when you hover over "API"?

I agree that it would be great to place a spread of orders. If someone finds an API call that does this, or finds a bot that already can do this I suggest 4 shares. If it turns out you need to modify or develop a bot to do this, 24 shares for coding. Any objections, or should something be changed?

There were some additions/objections/suggestions to this bounty; two current proposals are to eliminate the bounty entirely or reduce the share count to 4.  To clarify, this bounty includes icons such as the send and receive icon, the "about devcoin" sidebar image, and the splash screen.

I would like to propose a bounty for qt images and new icons.  8 shares for the images and icons used in the qt, 4 shares for the second best set of icons.

I would like to claim the following bounty with this article: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=investment_plan.  If there are no objections, I will receive 12 shares.  (Please feel free to go on the article and open a discussion on the talk page about corrections, inaccuracies, and improvements.)

12 shares for the first five investment business plans, and 6 shares for the next five plans. The business plan would have to go on devtome, make sense, and be at least 500 words. The business plan can be about an investment club, investment strategy, speculation strategy, or another other way of making money by investing. It could also be about investing in non cryptocoin assets, like silver or stocks. If someone later makes a publicly traded company from that plan, the writer will get another six shares.

Finally, http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=where_to_spend_your_devcoins has been updated with http://altcoincards.com/ and businesses which are not accessible anymore have been moved to the bottom of the article.  If you know of a business that is not listed on the page, just contact me or add a short message to the article's talk page (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=talk:where_to_spend_your_devcoins) and I will add the business.

[sidhujag]

Sorry for the double post, but I am announcing something bounty-related.

Since there were no objections, the share distribution here is now finalized:

Tagbond: 9 shares for devcoin integration
Sidhujag: 6 shares for working with Mark to get devcoin onto tag bonds exchange
EEh: 3 for tagbond site http://devcoin.tagbond.com/

This bounty is now active: (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=devcoin_bounty_now&#vircurex_order_spread_api_call_or_bot) <-- Why are there question symbols when you hover over "API"?

I agree that it would be great to place a spread of orders. If someone finds an API call that does this, or finds a bot that already can do this I suggest 4 shares. If it turns out you need to modify or develop a bot to do this, 24 shares for coding. Any objections, or should something be changed?

There were some additions/objections/suggestions to this bounty; two current proposals are to eliminate the bounty entirely or reduce the share count to 4.  To clarify, this bounty includes icons such as the send and receive icon, the "about devcoin" sidebar image, and the splash screen.

I would like to propose a bounty for qt images and new icons.  8 shares for the images and icons used in the qt, 4 shares for the second best set of icons.

I would like to claim the following bounty with this article: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=investment_plan.  If there are no objections, I will receive 12 shares.  (Please feel free to go on the article and open a discussion on the talk page about corrections, inaccuracies, and improvements.)

12 shares for the first five investment business plans, and 6 shares for the next five plans. The business plan would have to go on devtome, make sense, and be at least 500 words. The business plan can be about an investment club, investment strategy, speculation strategy, or another other way of making money by investing. It could also be about investing in non cryptocoin assets, like silver or stocks. If someone later makes a publicly traded company from that plan, the writer will get another six shares.

Finally, http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=where_to_spend_your_devcoins has been updated with http://altcoincards.com/ and businesses which are not accessible anymore have been moved to the bottom of the article.  If you know of a business that is not listed on the page, just contact me or add a short message to the article's talk page (http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=talk:where_to_spend_your_devcoins) and I will add the business.

According to alot of the work done per share I think the image
bounty should stand i did spend half a day doing it and had to edit the src to get them in.. I also addrd the qt about image in recently which was missing in 1.0.8...

I had to manually create the splashscreens and couldnt use mspaint because it doesnt support transparency I had to use an online image editor that does support it. The testnet imagges were all created aswell. The installer also had some images I put in.

[Papacrusher]

12 shares for the first five investment business plans, and 6 shares for the next five plans. The business plan would have to go on devtome, make sense, and be at least 500 words. The business plan can be about an investment club, investment strategy, speculation strategy, or another other way of making money by investing. It could also be about investing in non cryptocoin assets, like silver or stocks. If someone later makes a publicly traded company from that plan, the writer will get another six shares.

I also would like to claim 12 shares based on my article located here:  http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=plan_for_investing_in_group_buys , of course that is if there are no objections.

I am extremely new to http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=start and this is just one of a few articles that I have written and I sincerely hope that it met the requirements and expectations of the site.  Thanks again to the admins for allowing me this opportunity.

I also noticed that I am on the bounty list for a previous bounty, but my username and articles do not appear to be on the receiver list for word count.  I'm sure that this just takes time, but I just wanted to make sure that I did not miss a step on my part.

[Unthinkingbit]

..
I would like to claim the following bounty with this article: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=investment_plan.  If there are no objections, I will receive 12 shares.  (Please feel free to go on the article and open a discussion on the talk page about corrections, inaccuracies, and improvements.)

You'll get 12 shares, there are four 12 share bounties remaining. Since there will be other investment plans, please make the title more specific, like Altcoin Day Trading or Investment Plan (Smeagol).

[markm]

I would like to claim the following bounty with this article: http://devtome.com/doku.php?id=investment_plan.  If there are no objections, I will receive 12 shares.  (Please feel free to go on the article and open a discussion on the talk page about corrections, inaccuracies, and improvements.)

12 shares for the first five investment business plans, and 6 shares for the next five plans. The business plan would have to go on devtome, make sense, and be at least 500 words. The business plan can be about an investment club, investment strategy, speculation strategy, or another other way of making money by investing. It could also be about investing in non cryptocoin assets, like silver or stocks. If someone later makes a publicly traded company from that plan, the writer will get another six shares.

Um, that article doesn't seem to offer people any way to invest in your plan, nor indicate in what way it is a business (who are the customers of the business, how do they buy the service or product).

I think the bounties were not so much about a how to guide to how to invest personally in cryptocurrencies but, rather, about plans for businesses or investment funds or suchlike in which other people could invest or that provide services or goods for other people ("customers").

Spiff up your daytrading plan with some kind of shares people can buy into or something to make is a daytrading business, selling the service of daytrading to people or offering shares people can buy to get a portion of the profits or something and then I'd say okay that seems like a business.

As it is so far it seems more of a guide as to how employees (daytraders) of such a business could go about doing their job than a plan as to how such a business would operate in the sense of how it plans to attract and serve customers and earn hopefully eventually some profit doing so.

Maybe things like how many shares will be issued, how it will wind down being a business and move to being a private investment in the event it makes enough profit to no longer need "other people's money" in order to do its trading, how it will deal with losses, on what latform or by what method it will administrate its shares if it plans to sell shares of itself rather than just sell daytrading-as-a-service...

I have also thought about this kind of business, asking myself whether it is something General FInancial Corp should include among its activities or some new Corp should be launched to do it (General Trading Corp, maybe?) but I am not sure the volume is there, enough volume to be able to work with enough of "other people's money" to be able to pay a reasonable hourly wage to one or more daytraders and still come out ahead aka still either grow the Corp's capital or issue profits as dividends to shareholders.

How much do you or the business's employees currently make per day daytrading? What kind of wages do the daytrader(s) make, what kind of profits if any are left over after paying the daytrader(s)? How risky is it, do you see many days of no or negative income? What happens if there is not enough income to pay the wages? Etc.

How much of other people's money can the business accomodate? There is only so much capital one can reasonably move around in those markets isn't there? Or do you have a plan whereby even if someone said okay sure count me in for a hundred thousand bitcoins worth your traders would be able to operate effectively making reasonable profits for such an investor or customer?

Re the guestimate of receiver shares, it is merely a mean/average, the actual sending out of shares is a round-robin. Thus the more times the 4000 blocks gets to go around the robin (list), the closer it will be able to approach smooth/even distribution. The closer the number of shares in a round is to the limit of 4000 the more the difference in how many times around a given person was included in will make chunky differences / deviations from that mathematical ideal (the mean/average).

That is another reason to want to keep the number of shares per round low: it will get to loop more times through the list, so that being one of the odd ones out that didn't get included in the last loop-through would be less of a difference from what other people with the same number of shares in that round got.

For example if there are 3999 shares, one share gets looped-through twice. If there are 3991 shares, nine shares get looped through twice, and so on.


Back to the "business plan", I now see Unthinkingbit approved it. Unthinkingbit, could you explain a little more what you mean by "a business", inasmuch as I don't see any customers in Smeagol's plan, it looks to me more like a how to play the markets guide or something along those lines.

EDIT: Just to add some clarity: long ago on NetMarketingForum dot com I learned that the big, major, massive difference between a business and a self-employed job is employees. Being self-employed is a hobby (if it is not making profit) or a job, not a business. The big challenge is to turn it into a business, that is, to make it scale-able, to make it not be limited to just what the one person can do as their hobby or job. If it is just you, you are just doing a job, and often not a particularly profitable one, in fact often working for less than minimum wage, which is not sustainable when you need to start replacing that employee with someone else who will do that job for the business or expand by hiring more people to do that job for the business in addition to the person currently doing it.

-MarkM-

[Hunterbunter]

As a side note they also only let you have 100 open positions at any one time (according to their API page), which means you could only really have 100 santoshis difference between the lowest and highest prices, and if you're creating buy as well as sell orders, it's only really 50 santoshis either way. Seeing as you've put in lots of orders already, does this mean you have hundreds/thousands of open orders on vircurex? Also, is it more important for you to set the price in 1 santoshi increments, or set the range (eg 50-350 santoshis) with it working out the increments itself?

I have many hundreds of open orders.

I have many on the same price, even, because I have started back at one satoshi all over again many times by now.

Ok, I'll see if it's just outdated documentation, perhaps it lets more than 100 now. Will test with the api and see.

[markm]

I have updated http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=general_financial_corp

What does it need to turn it into "a business plan", if anything?

Some kind of plans, presumably, as to what it plans to do moving forward?

Or is just sitting there collecting more interest from its clients that it loans to while paying less interest to the Martians from whom they borrowed their operating capital a sufficient plan for now?

They currently charge their clients

INTEREST_RATE=1.00010405 # 0.25001900%/day compounded hourly

while being charged by the Martians

INTEREST_RATE=1.00005205 # 0.12499400%/day compounded hourly

The interest accrual scripts always use a minimum of one hour.

(That is partly so they could also be used in applications such as shorting and such without encouraging getting spammed with rapid-fire "borrow, repay, borrow, repay" kind of activity.)

-MarkM-