HashFast announces specs for new ASIC: 400GH/s

[jspielberg]

Just received a USD refund letter + check in response to my original full BTC payment refund request on Nov 10 and Jan 2:



For reference, my refund request is here

I did not fill out their USD refund & release form and did not request this. Getting so tired of these games.

I got the same letter and refund check...

Want to know the kicker?

I never filled out a refund request (in any form).

They are FORCING REFUNDS for batch1.

Expect your letter whether you want it or not.  We now get to enjoy the forced 90% loss of investment plus the tax hit.

[1713922933]

1713922933

[MrTeal]

MrTeal,

Very good Sir, illumination of the masses is what I seek.

A bit of background first~

ETL is one of the newer testing facilities that we have begun to acknowledge and recognize in recent years to a limited degree.  It is my understanding that their establishment was in an effort to expedite products being brought to market; A fast track UL Listing typically takes about a year to acquire at a cost of over a Mil, while an ETL is much quicker and a fraction of the cost.
As a note, I have seen very few ETL labels on equipment, what I have seen accompanies a UL Label. (ETL labeling is becoming more prevalent)

The nut of this is, as an member of the inspection community we are required to insure a safe installation in compliance with numerous federal, state and local laws or fail the installation; to the ends of protecting the populous.  The hard line is if it is not UL Listed we will not accept it; this is the rule of thumb and is the official standard that is upheld in every state that I am actively licensed in.
That being said there are exceptions to every rule and inspectors can legally permit certain exceptions.  Every installation is subject to blessings of the 'presiding authority having jurisdiction', that is the inspector over that area.

*There are conditions that permit 'Engineered Equipment' to be installed that is not listed, this is only permitted in industrial facilities with full time maintenance staff that are properly licensed.

To be honest, we can approve what ever we want...  and when the system fails, burns, kills people, we serve 20 to life.  The liability primarily lies with the contractor for installing equipment that is not listed, or more precisely their insurance company.  If a contractor installs an unlisted part or piece of equipment that the inspector misses, and an incident occurs... well, the insurance companies wouldn't cover the incident and the contractor will likely be impaled.  I have seen it happen.

If you as a home owner (assumption) who decides you are a qualified to install an unlisted commercial product and an incident occurs well who ya gonna call?

I realize I went off on a bit of a tangent, but this is the point.  

OSHA -- Occupational Safety & Health Administration  
U.S. Department of Labor:  
   -Regulations (Standards - 29 CFR)1910 and related articles
National Fire Protection Association (NFPA 70)
National Electric Code 2011:
   -Section 100- Definitions (pg 30)
                                      "Listed"
                                      "labeled"

And in direct response to your question; if there is an ETL alone NO.
** An ETL alone, with supporting documentation that it meets UL standards (ETL is supposed to at least meet UL standards), written request from the installer with supporting documentation indicating special precautions put in place around an unlisted device, and additional review from other inspectors in the jurisdiction and the final blessing of the chief inspector, there is a small chance.

EDIT: With respect to MrTeal, I am speaking of HF 'commercial equipment' (All documentation for HF equipment in my possession says 'Commercial') in comparison to consumer grade, different classification.  As a consumer, you can buy whatever you want... buyer beware.  As a business who purchases commercial equipment there exist requirements that electrical products be installed by qualified licensed personnel.

PS: Edit:  I am not trying to be an ass, I see a problem that I am legitimately attempting to illuminate.  By the way, in the electrical industry even the electrical tape is requires to be listed.

I won't disagree with you there, and HashFast has painted themselves into a corner with listing their product as commercial equipment.
I do stand by my original assertion though, that is it not illegal to sell electrical equipment without it being UL listed. Whether a building inspector would object is another point, but the UL listing itself is voluntary and selling without it isn't illegal.

[Kouye]

I won't disagree with you there, and HashFast has painted themselves into a corner with listing there product as commercial equipment.
I do stand by my original assertion though, that is it not illegal to sell electrical equipment without it being UL listed. Whether a building inspector would object is another point, but the UL listing itself is voluntary and selling without it isn't illegal.

Arguing about the legality of non-existent electrical products sure is fun. But how is it related?

[ninjarobot]

I got the same letter and refund check...

Want to know the kicker?

I never filled out a refund request (in any form).

They are FORCING REFUNDS for batch1.

Expect your letter whether you want it or not.  We now get to enjoy the forced 90% loss of investment plus the tax hit.

I find it hard to believe that they are forcing refunds on Batch 1 customers to be honest.

The letter also states "Enclosed you will find a check for the refund you requested"

[dropt]

For the record, it's been 5 days now since I asked cypherdoc to release the contract that hashfast enforced to use him as a paid shill.
No answer.

Why do you have the expectation that he should divulge that?  I wouldn't if I were him, and unless I'm mistaken, he has no obligation to do so.

[Kouye]

Why do you have the expectation that he should divulge that?  I wouldn't if I were him, and unless I'm mistaken, he has no obligation to do so.

He has none, but he also publicly droped hashfast. And the content of their contract might be useful.

[dropt]

Why do you have the expectation that he should divulge that?  I wouldn't if I were him, and unless I'm mistaken, he has no obligation to do so.

He has none, but he also publicly droped hashfast. And the content of their contract might be useful.

What do you mean "dropped hashfast"?  IIRC his contractual obligation ended with the completion of batch 1 sales.  

[Gandalfs Mentor]

MrTeal,

Very good Sir, illumination of the masses is what I seek.

A bit of background first~

ETL is one of the newer testing facilities that we have begun to acknowledge and recognize in recent years to a limited degree.  It is my understanding that their establishment was in an effort to expedite products being brought to market; A fast track UL Listing typically takes about a year to acquire at a cost of over a Mil, while an ETL is much quicker and a fraction of the cost.
As a note, I have seen very few ETL labels on equipment, what I have seen accompanies a UL Label. (ETL labeling is becoming more prevalent)

The nut of this is, as an member of the inspection community we are required to insure a safe installation in compliance with numerous federal, state and local laws or fail the installation; to the ends of protecting the populous.  The hard line is if it is not UL Listed we will not accept it; this is the rule of thumb and is the official standard that is upheld in every state that I am actively licensed in.
That being said there are exceptions to every rule and inspectors can legally permit certain exceptions.  Every installation is subject to blessings of the 'presiding authority having jurisdiction', that is the inspector over that area.

*There are conditions that permit 'Engineered Equipment' to be installed that is not listed, this is only permitted in industrial facilities with full time maintenance staff that are properly licensed.

To be honest, we can approve what ever we want...  and when the system fails, burns, kills people, we serve 20 to life.  The liability primarily lies with the contractor for installing equipment that is not listed, or more precisely their insurance company.  If a contractor installs an unlisted part or piece of equipment that the inspector misses, and an incident occurs... well, the insurance companies wouldn't cover the incident and the contractor will likely be impaled.  I have seen it happen.

If you as a home owner (assumption) who decides you are a qualified to install an unlisted commercial product and an incident occurs well who ya gonna call?

I realize I went off on a bit of a tangent, but this is the point.  

OSHA -- Occupational Safety & Health Administration  
U.S. Department of Labor:  
   -Regulations (Standards - 29 CFR)1910 and related articles
National Fire Protection Association (NFPA 70)
National Electric Code 2011:
   -Section 100- Definitions (pg 30)
                                      "Listed"
                                      "labeled"

And in direct response to your question; if there is an ETL alone NO.
** An ETL alone, with supporting documentation that it meets UL standards (ETL is supposed to at least meet UL standards), written request from the installer with supporting documentation indicating special precautions put in place around an unlisted device, and additional review from other inspectors in the jurisdiction and the final blessing of the chief inspector, there is a small chance.

EDIT: With respect to MrTeal, I am speaking of HF 'commercial equipment' (All documentation for HF equipment in my possession says 'Commercial') in comparison to consumer grade, different classification.  As a consumer, you can buy whatever you want... buyer beware.  As a business who purchases commercial equipment there exist requirements that electrical products be installed by qualified licensed personnel.

PS: Edit:  I am not trying to be an ass, I see a problem that I am legitimately attempting to illuminate.  By the way, in the electrical industry even the electrical tape is requires to be listed.

I won't disagree with you there, and HashFast has painted themselves into a corner with listing their product as commercial equipment.
I do stand by my original assertion though, that is it not illegal to sell electrical equipment without it being UL listed. Whether a building inspector would object is another point, but the UL listing itself is voluntary and selling without it isn't illegal.

Dear Mr.Teal,

I acknowledge your statement and as an honorable individual I will apologies for my disagreement with you original objection. You were correct in disagreeing with my loosely worded incomplete response #4.
It would have been better to state for commercial installation...

Thanks Mate and I appreciate you being a sounding board to quid pro que the topic. Cheers  

[Gandalfs Mentor]

I won't disagree with you there, and HashFast has painted themselves into a corner with listing there product as commercial equipment.
I do stand by my original assertion though, that is it not illegal to sell electrical equipment without it being UL listed. Whether a building inspector would object is another point, but the UL listing itself is voluntary and selling without it isn't illegal.

Arguing about the legality of non-existent electrical products sure is fun. But how is it related?

nonexistent electrical products, 4PH ghost, fuzzy bunnies, latex ponies, the list goes on; sounds like the makings of a Tim Burton film...

This discussion focused around the possibility that the units do not meet the safety standards required for consumer products/use, only commercial... see?

[Kouye]

What do you mean "dropped hashfast"?  IIRC his contractual obligation ended with the completion of batch 1 sales.  

I mean he was so ashamed that he would not talk about it anymore.
And anyway, that's so old now, that he could help all those people he helped getting scammed during early days.
Paying a public shill was a first in pre-order scams, as far as I read.
So getting to know the binding contract would be another step into carefulness.

[Kouye]

the units

Oooh, I see! You're talking about unicorns!

[ImI]

I got the same letter and refund check...

Want to know the kicker?

I never filled out a refund request (in any form).

They are FORCING REFUNDS for batch1.

Expect your letter whether you want it or not.  We now get to enjoy the forced 90% loss of investment plus the tax hit.

Forced USD refunds?!

That would put a whole new dimension to this.

[jspielberg]

I got the same letter and refund check...

Want to know the kicker?

I never filled out a refund request (in any form).

They are FORCING REFUNDS for batch1.

Expect your letter whether you want it or not.  We now get to enjoy the forced 90% loss of investment plus the tax hit.

I find it hard to believe that they are forcing refunds on Batch 1 customers to be honest.

The letter also states "Enclosed you will find a check for the refund you requested"

Exactly... I did not request a refund... yet I got a fedex saying I had.  Foolish me... Since I hadn't request a refund, I actually thought they might be delivering miners.

[dhenson]

Anyone receiving a USD refund, is in effect 'cashing out' their bitcoin and will be on the hook to pay taxes on the refund.  Even if you turn around and re-purchase bitcoin, your still on the hook.

Just another instance of being screwed over by these ass-clowns. (please excuse the language)

[Bicknellski]

Be nice for people to post roughly what they paid and what they got back in a refund.

[jspielberg]

I got the same letter and refund check...

Want to know the kicker?

I never filled out a refund request (in any form).

They are FORCING REFUNDS for batch1.

Expect your letter whether you want it or not.  We now get to enjoy the forced 90% loss of investment plus the tax hit.

Forced USD refunds?!

That would put a whole new dimension to this.

Exactly... why make people go through the sham of having them send registered letters when they were just going to force refund at USD anyway.

[Kouye]

Exactly... I did not request a refund... yet I got a fedex saying I had.  Foolish me... Since I hadn't request a refund, I actually thought they might be delivering miners.

Wait... There was a USD check enclosed, or just a statement that is was actually enclosed?

[jspielberg]

Be nice for people to post roughly what they paid and what they got back in a refund.

I did not pay with USD, but BTC.

I got back a check from hashfast from the silicon valley bank for the USD price + 5%

[analytics]

Ouch!

I wonder if they kept the machines and are now mining. 

[Kouye]

I got back a check from hashfast from the silicon valley bank for the USD price + 5%

I hope you fight back and win, this is a clear, textbook fraud. Those fuckers need to be put to an end.