NXT :: descendant of Bitcoin - Updated Information

[fmiboy]

So... any updates from those testing the NXT Asset Exchange?

haven't tested heavily today but it seems we need at least one, perhaps two more api calls to make asset exchange running smooth.
one additional call is not mandatory but as soon the order volume increases we need an additional asset filter.
traversing on client size is ok atm but to expensive later.

btw, thanks again joefox keeping the wiki updated. very good resource.

yes wiki APIs very useful! thanks!

[Damelon]

+ 1 NXT        ==   x Vote  { x = Func(accountBalance) =  polynom * accountBalance}

+ 1 Account  ==  1 Vote   { vote = Func(accountBalance) =  0.5 * accountBalance}

These won't work. They are easily defeated by splitting your wealth over several accounts.

I'm in favor of one vote per NXT.  That maximizes the value of each NXT rather than the value of having multiple accounts, or paying people to scam the system for you in some other way.

Any time you try to decentralized system that makes it difficult to game the system, you restrict the people who game the system to people who are willing to go against the implied moral contract of the platform (that you'll play by the rules).   In that way, I suggest it is better to allow everybody to "cheat" so that "cheating" is performed by good actors AND bad actors instead of just by actors willing to be bad.

NXT has a major concentration of wealth right now, but that's changing pretty quickly and if it gets popular I've got to imagine the temptation to sell part of their stakes will be too great for most.

It's really interesting watching this community - you guys are the only "headless" metalayer, lacking a founder or team and yet delivering with real working software.   

Keep up the good work

I still like this take on the voting system.

As has already been said: ANY system can be gamed. The benchmark however, should not be the ones that abuse the system, but how much good such a system actually does.

Here in the Netherlands we see the same kind of debate over the unemployment system. Sure, there are freeloaders profiting off it. However, as a system of giving people time to get a decent job again and not fall into poverty and having to sell their assets, it works.

That said: the first part of any voting system should be about what we are actually voting? Is it an advisory vote or a vote that forces an action? What is the area a vote can affect? Can it affect just smallish things like individual projects or does it affect the whole underlying structure of Nxt?

I haven't seen much about that part, mostly about the mechanism, which is to me interesting, but only in sofar as it is a means to an end.

At this moment, to me the end isn't clear. What is it a vote can affect?

[starik69]

But non-commercial statement.

How it is non-commercial if we are getting fees - our profit?

I agree with cheating possibility on any imaginable voting system.

Wrong. If "1NXT=1Vote" system is cheatable, then our PoS NXT system is insecure. 

[ZeroTheGreat]

I think it's great, that it's relatively hard to achieve a consensus in Bitcoin community and make any changes in base code. It give every bitcoiner a confidence in the immutability of the system at the whim of a relatively (to whole system) weak attacker / pest.

How it is non-commercial if we are getting fees - our profit?

Forgers — only part of Nxt. System'd not be changed to their (us) benefits only. If users (senders) will go away, there'll be no fees for you to collect (and your NXTs lose many aspects of value very possible as well). So forgers for sure'd speak, but'd listen too.

Wrong. If "1NXT=1Vote" system is cheatable, then our PoS NXT system is insecure. 

I meant not to calculate votes, but to interpret result. From 1 NXT = 1 Vote pont of view 10M-wealthed person have as much power in success of whole system as 1 million of 10 NXTs-wealthed persons, no matter what. But details matter, community (devs, ideologists, orators, futurists, so many people etc) cannot be precise represented in coin's weight.

[fmiboy]

Hi everyone.

How about these for a couple of proofs of concept?  Two one-minute spots I recorded this evening:

General Nxt intro: https://soundcloud.com/whatsupnxt/nxtminute-0001
Nxt minute: https://soundcloud.com/whatsupnxt/nxtminute_0002

I welcome feedback.

Here's my take on the one minute spot, using joefox's example as inspiration, and trying to take into consideration all the feedback that was given:

Nxt LTB Spot, Episode 1: https://soundcloud.com/bithic/nxtltbspot-ep1

Anymore feedback on this? Please give feedback on the content as well as my reading. Criticisms welcome, my ego is not wrapped up in this. I'm not trying to compete to be the voice, just putting forward an idea. This should be considered a rough draft.

we can have more than one person for this as backup and it would help if more people join imo, having different voices increase impression/trust that more people from different background using Nxt

[Passion_ltc]

The more NXT someone has, the more right he has to decide. It's natural.

No, it's not. Wealth =/= Competence.

We are not talking about competence or the correct decision here! We are talking about the RIGHT to be able to vote. And the guys which hold a few thousands are able to vote more than the guys which are holding a few cents!

THIS IS NATURAL! If the votes are resulting in bad decisions, these decisions were made by those who will loose the most. But then, let it be this way..

[Framewood]

Hi everyone.

How about these for a couple of proofs of concept?  Two one-minute spots I recorded this evening:

General Nxt intro: https://soundcloud.com/whatsupnxt/nxtminute-0001
Nxt minute: https://soundcloud.com/whatsupnxt/nxtminute_0002

I welcome feedback.

Here's my take on the one minute spot, using joefox's example as inspiration, and trying to take into consideration all the feedback that was given:

Nxt LTB Spot, Episode 1: https://soundcloud.com/bithic/nxtltbspot-ep1

Anymore feedback on this? Please give feedback on the content as well as my reading. Criticisms welcome, my ego is not wrapped up in this. I'm not trying to compete to be the voice, just putting forward an idea. This should be considered a rough draft.

I like it, good job, just a little fast in parts. I prefer Joe's.

[Uniqueorn]

The more NXT someone has, the more right he has to decide. It's natural.

No, it's not. Wealth =/= Competence.

We are not talking about competence or the correct decision here! We are talking about the RIGHT to be able to vote. And the guys which hold a few thousands are able to vote more than the guys which are holding a few cents!

THIS IS NATURAL! If the votes are resulting in bad decisions, these decisions were made by those who will loose the most. But then, let it be this way..

I actually disagree.
Given the fact that ther are people with 30+ million NXT who paid less for it than someone who buys 10 000 NXT today. Otherwise the top accounts that own 51% (which is like 20 people) can suddenly decide the entire future of NXT.

[bitcoinpaul]

 why has nobody commented yet that he happened to go out of pocket at the same time as the Miami Bitcoin Conf???)

Was already mentioned.

[Damelon]

Hi everyone.

How about these for a couple of proofs of concept?  Two one-minute spots I recorded this evening:

General Nxt intro: https://soundcloud.com/whatsupnxt/nxtminute-0001
Nxt minute: https://soundcloud.com/whatsupnxt/nxtminute_0002

I welcome feedback.

Here's my take on the one minute spot, using joefox's example as inspiration, and trying to take into consideration all the feedback that was given:

Nxt LTB Spot, Episode 1: https://soundcloud.com/bithic/nxtltbspot-ep1

Anymore feedback on this? Please give feedback on the content as well as my reading. Criticisms welcome, my ego is not wrapped up in this. I'm not trying to compete to be the voice, just putting forward an idea. This should be considered a rough draft.

Overall, I like it.
Could use some work on articulation, because some sentences are a bit unintelligable. I can understand them, but that's because I know the terms like "decentralised exchange", but if you don't you could not know what was being said.

Also, I find it a bit too "bassy". I like a cleaner sound. Too much bass tends to sound "mushy".

[ZeroTheGreat]

We are talking about the RIGHT to be able to vote.

Everyone've right to vote. Even if he've 0 NXT, he can make suggestion to make Nxt stronger. Find a flaw, for example. In decentralized system no one can bound anyone's right to vote.

And the guys which hold a few thousands are able to vote more than the guys which are holding a few cents!

Disagree. The weights of opinions/suggestions/proposals should be placed by the guys that DO (and decision'll be maked by them as well: coding, installing, buying/selling, anything). Competence! That's right, you can't place your own weight precisely in close to perfect (IMO) system, cos u're living in subjective reality. In science world u've to prove u're right. In social world u've to convince (community) u're right. That's simple.

THIS IS NATURAL! If the votes are resulting in bad decisions, these decisions were made by those who will loose the most. But then, let it be this way..

Disagree with both statements. It's not natural. It's not OK to build system u expect to fail right away.

[erik__]

I have multiple voting methods coded for community testing (per utopianfuture's proposal) I just need a way to send and receive API calls in PHP. The below example returns NULL... Suggestions?

Code:

<?php
  function get_web_page( $url )
    {
...
        $ch = curl_init($url);
...
    }

$result = get_web_page('http://node6.mynxt.info:7874/nxt?requestType=getBalance&account=10006970057300228034');

var_dump($result);

?>

Maybe try:
function get_web_page($url)
{
    return file_get_contents($url);
}

[Passion_ltc]

I looked into the localNXT issue. This would be too huge for my programming skills. Because this have to be 100% secure, 100% reliable, 100% up-to-date, 100% legal and a full-time job. I can't do this.


Therefore I'm looking for other interesting ideas, which can be coded by a single guy.

It doesn't matter if it's something for the Asset Exchange, for AM or some graphs.


Just say it or send me an email: contact@nxtarea.com


I will look into the issue and code it. The next thing on my list are encrypted messages. I think I will integrate this into nxtion AND make a stand-alone-version on NXTarea.com


Any suggestions?

[gs02xzz]

The more NXT someone has, the more right he has to decide. It's natural.

No, it's not. Wealth =/= Competence.

We are not talking about competence or the correct decision here! We are talking about the RIGHT to be able to vote. And the guys which hold a few thousands are able to vote more than the guys which are holding a few cents!

THIS IS NATURAL! If the votes are resulting in bad decisions, these decisions were made by those who will loose the most. But then, let it be this way..

Since today is slow, it probably is a good time to talk about the VS. I want to throw in a mix solution. Basically, I believe man's heart goes where man's treasure goes. The more stake you have in, the more care you are. We can use two types of majority:

1) stake majority in which 1nxt=1vote is 50%+ to approve an issue.
2) account majority in which 1acct=1vote is 60%+ to veto the about approval.

each vote is consistent of these two types. It is not perfect. The large accounts still can manipulate the results by setting up more accounts. But they have to pay more fees to achieve that since they have to pay for each vote for the second type.
 

[opticalcarrier]

can someone help me with decompiling?  I unzipped the .jar and see lots of class files there but decompiling them gives no nxt source code.

What decompiler are you using? http://jd.benow.ca/ works for me.

yes that works for me as well, but same thing - it decompiles all the class files but i see no NXT code anywhere

[Passion_ltc]

The more NXT someone has, the more right he has to decide. It's natural.

No, it's not. Wealth =/= Competence.

We are not talking about competence or the correct decision here! We are talking about the RIGHT to be able to vote. And the guys which hold a few thousands are able to vote more than the guys which are holding a few cents!

THIS IS NATURAL! If the votes are resulting in bad decisions, these decisions were made by those who will loose the most. But then, let it be this way..

I actually disagree.
Given the fact that ther are people with 30+ million NXT who paid less for it than someone who buys 10 000 NXT today. Otherwise the top accounts that own 51% (which is like 20 people) can suddenly decide the entire future of NXT.

We are talking about the RIGHT to be able to vote.

Everyone've right to vote. Even if he've 0 NXT, he can make suggestion to make Nxt stronger. Find a flaw, for example. In decentralized system no one can bound anyone's right to vote.

And the guys which hold a few thousands are able to vote more than the guys which are holding a few cents!

Disagree. The weights of opinions/suggestions/proposals should be placed by the guys that DO (and decision'll be maked by them as well: coding, installing, buying/selling, anything). Competence! That's right, you can't place your own weight precisely in close to perfect (IMO) system, cos u're living in subjective reality. In science world u've to prove u're right. In social world u've to convince (community) u're right. That's simple.

THIS IS NATURAL! If the votes are resulting in bad decisions, these decisions were made by those who will loose the most. But then, let it be this way..

Disagree with both statements. It's not natural. It's not OK to build system u expect to fail right away.

I think there are two completely different views on this. The guy who will implement this should just do it how he sees it's correct. If the chain gets a fork we will see which fork will survive.

[Anon136]

Ok so i decided to write something really quick as a submission for this commercial on lets lets talk bitcoin.

this is a super super super rough draft.

Got a minute for whats next? Written from the ground up with brand new source code in an entirely different programming language, nxt is the first truly second generation crypto. It's 100% proof of stake security model melds short term deterministic predictability with longer term uncertainty to open the floodgates and release a torrent of potential breakthrough innovations to the cryptospace. Foremost among these, the ability to predict future forging nodes allows those nodes to build trust within the community. This trust can be leveraged for things like instantly secure transactions if the merchant accepting the nxt trusts the next several nodes in line. Or visa level transaction load volume via nodes clearing transactions before recording them into the blockchain. Nxt's 100% proof of stake security model eliminates many of the costs associated with blockchain security that are, with bitcoin, presently born by the savers in the form of inflation. Finally unlike bitcoin and its limited time block subsidy, there is no arbitrary date far off in the future where nxt's security model will be put to the final test, if nxt works now, it will work always. Tune in next week where we address some of the legitimate criticisms as well as some of the myths associated with nxt.

what do you guys think. do you like the direction? i know its a little over the limit but thats good because the first step in revision is trimming the fat.

[bitcoinpaul]

Ok so i decided to write something really quick as a submission for this commercial on lets lets talk bitcoin.

this is a super super super rough draft.

Got a minute for whats next? Written from the ground up with brand new source code in an entirely different programming language, nxt is the first truly second generation crypto. It's 100% proof of stake security model melds short term deterministic predictability with longer term uncertainty to open the floodgates and release a torrent of potential breakthrough innovations to the cryptospace. Foremost among these, the ability to predict future forging nodes allows those nodes to build trust within the community. This trust can be leveraged for things like instantly secure transactions if the merchant accepting the nxt trusts the next several nodes in line. Or visa level transaction load volume via nodes clearing transactions before recording them into the blockchain. Nxt's 100% proof of stake security model eliminates many of the costs associated with blockchain security that are, with bitcoin, presently born by the savers in the form of inflation. Finally unlike bitcoin and its limited time block subsidy, there is no arbitrary date far off in the future where nxt's security model will be put to the final test, if nxt works now, it will work always. Tune in next week where we address some of the legitimate criticisms as well as some of the myths associated with nxt.

what do you guys think. do you like the direction? i know its a little over the limit but thats good because the first step in revision is trimming the fat.

I like it! BUT it ends bad. It leaves a bad feeling. First, I get all pumped up with innovative details and suddenly....

Maybe I'm overreacting.

[PeercoinEnthusiast]

1. Cryptsy

No more discussion needed for Cryptsy:

https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,3557.0.html

I've asked Nikel to get me a few email addresses so I can do the mutual introduction.


2. Vircurex

I can't confirm 100%, however, my guess is high confirmations at initial launch to make sure everything runs correctly.  With a brand new code set, I wouldn't blame them one bit. I'd recommend following up in the next 72 hours a coordinate a request to politely lower the number of required confirmations.


Small steps... small steps. Nikel did a great job at the conference, I was with the whole time showing him the best ways to network at these events. We had some fairly funny moments of politely stalking people until we heard what we needed.   If you haven't taken a look at Nikel's updates yet, it's on Nextcoin.org and I believe he's also moved them to the forum off the official site. 

- JustaBitofTime

[MtheK]

Hello Guys,
I published the first alpha version of my Android App "NXT Watcher".
See https://nextcoin.org/index.php/topic,2588.0.html for further details and install instructions.

Screenshot to get a first impression of how it looks like:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1304372/NXTWatcher/Screenshots/NXTWatcher2.png

I need a lot help testing on different devices, especially Gingerbread and Honeycomb!

So if you own an Android device, follow the link above and please provide some feedback

Additionally there is a 1k bounty for providing a good looking, Android-ready laucher logo for the app -- two guys working on it already.


And now the obligate NXT signature  :
If you like it, you are welcome to donate a few NXT to keep me motivated
6887853321138092071

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1304372/NXTWatcher/Screenshots/NXTWatcher1.png


NXT Watcher version 0.2.1 is out!

Now you can directly compare different exchanges by overlapping the charts,
additionally I added Vircurex.com!

Have fun


=> 6887853321138092071