[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[NEMoon]

That'll be my first million! I'm so looking forward to receiving it. I'm not gonna sell a single coin until it's at least $0.01 per NEM.

[Eadeqa]

Someone said earlier that BCNext was the fairest developer. That's not true. If he really didn't take more than any of the other stakeholders

No, he didn't, and that needed to be said given a lot of people bash nxt in this thread for "unfair" distribution which is a pathetically dishonest criticism as nxt IPO was open to anyone for 2 months and  Bcnext (the developer) didn't demand any extra shares for himself.

One thing we can say about nxt inventor: he wasn't greedy.

Doesn't he own ~5% of NXT?

No, as I understand, everyone was allowed 1 btc max investment. bcnext was not exception to that rule. The 1 billion nxt were divided among the investors. This is all public record and happened in the open forum. Unless he was using a sock puppet account to invest twice, there was no special "stock" for bcnext. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3254124#msg3254124

see this post in particular, where he laid out the rules clearly about "no developer/creator cut"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3256852#msg3256852

Here is my perspective. If you open a a distribution round in one and half month and get only 71 people in which 8 people end up owning 40% of the supply. Then that was a disaster distribution and indicated incompetency. I don't know why you can be proud of it unless the person in charge of distribution intentionally did not try at all.

I believe this is what happened:  The first post was back in Sept 2013. The traffic in this forum   was 1000 time lower.  His account was new with no history, and in the second page of the thread someone claims "fraud". People were skeptical, traffic was much lower.  

I won't call it a "disaster" though as nxt by any standard is a success with  large and very active community that grew rapidly.

[Starfleet.Intelligence]

I think this distribution is one of the fairest ever.

Almost sure there will be unclaimed stakes from the 3000 stakeholders. Any plans what will happen to them?

[xtester]

Good times lay ahead. 

There surely is a lot of interest for Nem so the auction will be a resounding marketing move.

[Eadeqa]

Someone said earlier that BCNext was the fairest developer. That's not true. If he really didn't take more than any of the other stakeholders

No, he didn't, and that needed to be said given a lot of people bash nxt in this thread for "unfair" distribution which is a pathetically dishonest criticism as nxt IPO was open to anyone for 2 months and  Bcnext (the developer) didn't demand any extra shares for himself.

One thing we can say about nxt inventor: he wasn't greedy.

Doesn't he own ~5% of NXT?

No, as I understand, everyone was allowed 1 btc max investment. bcnext was not exception to that rule. The 1 billion nxt were divided among the investors. This is all public record and happened in the open forum. Unless he was using a sock puppet account to invest twice, there was no special "stock" for bcnext. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3254124#msg3254124

The question is does he own 5% ? not what's the rules of distribution?.  I don't mind he owns 5% or more at all but here you should answer the question instead of evade it.

There is no way to prove who BCnext is and what he owns. All we know  this is what  happened in the public forum

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3256852

where anyone was allowed to invest btc (cap was 1 btc) and all coins were distributed among the investors. The IPO was open for 2 months. There was no creator's cuts or special stakes for bcnext.

This is all public record.
 

BCNext was on the record saying sending 1BTC and he was on the record saying he has a team sending BTC in as well.

I went through all his posts and there is no record of him saying he has a team sending BTC. Care to post proof of that claim? In fact there is no proof he had a team of any kind. He appeared to be one man show until he hires (pays with his own money) Cfb. This  history is all in public record too.

[gentlemand]

So if NXT's distribution had been less contentious where do people think it would be now? Does anyone think it would've transformed its performance?

[utopianfuture]

Someone said earlier that BCNext was the fairest developer. That's not true. If he really didn't take more than any of the other stakeholders

No, he didn't, and that needed to be said given a lot of people bash nxt in this thread for "unfair" distribution which is a pathetically dishonest criticism as nxt IPO was open to anyone for 2 months and  Bcnext (the developer) didn't demand any extra shares for himself.

One thing we can say about nxt inventor: he wasn't greedy.

Doesn't he own ~5% of NXT?

No, as I understand, everyone was allowed 1 btc max investment. bcnext was not exception to that rule. The 1 billion nxt were divided among the investors. This is all public record and happened in the open forum. Unless he was using a sock puppet account to invest twice, there was no special "stock" for bcnext. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3254124#msg3254124

see this post in particular, where he laid out the rules clearly about "no developer/creator cut"

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3256852#msg3256852

Here is my perspective. If you open a a distribution round in one and half month and get only 71 people in which 8 people end up owning 40% of the supply. Then that was a disaster distribution and indicated incompetency. I don't know why you can be proud of it unless the person in charge of distribution intentionally did not try at all.

I believe this is what happened:  The first post was back in Sept 2013. The traffic in this forum   was 1000 time lower.  His account was new with no history, and in the second page of the thread someone claims "fraud". People were skeptical, traffic was much lower.  

I won't call it a "disaster" though as nxt by any standard is a success with more larger and very active community that grew rapidly.

I did not say NXT was a disaster. I said NXT initial distribution was a disaster. 

[Come-from-Beyond]

BCNext was on the record saying sending 1BTC and he was on the record saying he has a team sending BTC in as well. If you are such a good historian you should be able to find the written texts. I already said I don't mind BCNext having 5-10% of more so you can chill on that. 

I'm reading this thread with interest. I don't get what is new in ur movement, but I hope I'll get it one day and will use it in my own coin (Qubic) if it has advantages over the old way.
I have a question regarding "a team sending BTC in as well". I consider myself as a member of his team and I sent 0.1 BTC. I think BCNext worked only with me coz he was very paranoid. Do u have a link that proves ur words? Exactly these ones -

...and he was on the record saying he has a team sending BTC in as well

I failed to find the proof.

[Fatih87SK]

utopianfuture is BCnext and NXT was his experiment.

[mr smith]

Someone said earlier that BCNext was the fairest developer. That's not true. If he really didn't take more than any of the other stakeholders

No, he didn't, and that needed to be said given a lot of people bash nxt in this thread for "unfair" distribution which is a pathetically dishonest criticism as nxt IPO was open to anyone for 2 months and  Bcnext (the developer) didn't demand any extra shares for himself.

One thing we can say about nxt inventor: he wasn't greedy.

Doesn't he own ~5% of NXT?

No, as I understand, everyone was allowed 1 btc max investment. bcnext was not exception to that rule. The 1 billion nxt were divided among the investors. This is all public record and happened in the open forum. Unless he was using a sock puppet account to invest twice, there was no special "stock" for bcnext. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3254124#msg3254124

The question is does he own 5% ? not what's the rules of distribution?.  I don't mind he owns 5% or more at all but here you should answer the question instead of evade it.

There is no way to prove who BCnext is and what he owns. All we know  this is what  happened in the public forum

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.msg3256852

where anyone was allowed to invest btc (cap was 1 btc) and all coins were distributed among the investors. The IPO was open for 2 months. There was no creator's cuts or special stakes for bcnext.

This is all public record.
 

BCNext was on the record saying sending 1BTC and he was on the record saying he has a team sending BTC in as well.

I went through all his posts and there is no record of him saying he has a team sending BTC. Care to post proof of that claim? In fact there is no proof he had a team of any kind. He appeared to be one man show until he hires (pays with his own) Cfb. This  history is all in public record too.

Eadeqa
I now understand your feelings and love for the man called BC. Dude it's a free world but it's time to move on.
I hope your love of Nem will one day satisfy you.

[Come-from-Beyond]

b) keep in mind POI != POS, so it doesn't translate to more NEMs == more gain from fees.

Could u explain how PoI works? And how r u going to counteract attacks that I mentioned in my letter to utopianfuture and one of the NEM devs? Especially Sybil attack, coz Eclipse attack is not so fatal.

[mr smith]

Kudos to CFB we are blessed with attendance, it must be a message *IT'S EASTER* Dude are you hear to help Nem and can i take this time to ask did you get the job at *E* respect

[awais3344]

hi, i already have a stake. but i wonder if setting up a node will give me a few more coins? i am really interspersed to know that. also what kind of services can i offer for a return in nems?

No reply to me. So I am quoting again.  

[utopianfuture]

BCNext was on the record saying sending 1BTC and he was on the record saying he has a team sending BTC in as well. If you are such a good historian you should be able to find the written texts. I already said I don't mind BCNext having 5-10% of more so you can chill on that.  

I'm reading this thread with interest. I don't get what is new in ur movement, but I hope I'll get it one day and will use it in my own coin (Qubic) if it has advantages over the old way.
I have a question regarding "a team sending BTC in as well". I consider myself as a member of his team and I sent 0.1 BTC. I think BCNext worked only with me coz he was very paranoid. Do u have a link that proves ur words? Exactly these ones -

...and he was on the record saying he has a team sending BTC in as well

I failed to find the proof.

I remember he said he has a team. Maybe it is just you so I don't know. It doesn't matter because I already said I don't mind if he (or his team) has 5-10-20% or more of Nxt (this is may be sixteen times). It is certainly way better than giving 5% of Nxt to some random guy who think he is so smart because he just happen to be there at the right time.

[gimre]

b) keep in mind POI != POS, so it doesn't translate to more NEMs == more gain from fees.

Could u explain how PoI works? And how r u going to counteract attacks that I mentioned in my letter to utopianfuture and one of the NEM devs? Especially Sybil attack, coz Eclipse attack is not so fatal.

It will be addressed in NEM whitepaper (probably closer to beta than alpha)


*edit* PS, but I guess you yourself have enough of technical knowledge, to know how it's gonna be addressed

[Come-from-Beyond]

I remember he said he has a team. Maybe it is just you so I don't know. It doesn't matter because I already said I don't mind if he (or his team) has 5-10-20% or more of Nxt (this is may be sixteen times). It is certainly way better than giving 5% of Nxt to some random guy who think he is so smart because he just happen to be there at the right time.

Ok. Funny thing is that BCNext didn't even pay 1 BTC as he was going to do. Coz he wanted to have 21 BTC invested but another guy sent 1 BTC right before the funding was over. (It's according to his own words, there is still a possibility that he lied and actually owns 50% of the coins.)

[Come-from-Beyond]

*edit* PS, but I guess you yourself have enough of technical knowledge, to know how it's gonna be addressed

Ur PoI looks very similar to mining algo of Qubic. I've spent more than year trying to solve the problem of Sybil attack. Read a lot of whitepapers with proposed solutions. There r only 2 reliable solutions - centralized certification and proof-of-resource approach. NEM can't use the former coz it's against the very nature of any decentralized currency. The latter is transformed into Proof-of-Work/Stake. So ur PoS+PoI will become PoS+PoS (a-la Nxt) or PoS+PoW (a-la Peercoin).

Frankly saying I don't worry much if someone attacks NEM using this attack vector, I hoped that I could steal borrow ur solution, hehe...

[awais3344]

i am sorry even tho i fairly understand most of the concepts on btctalk, but i still don't understand what is POI? is it like POS?

[gimre]

*edit* PS, but I guess you yourself have enough of technical knowledge, to know how it's gonna be addressed

So ur PoS+PoI will become PoS+PoS (a-la Nxt) or PoS+PoW (a-la Peercoin).

neither of those, but you'll have to wait for the whitepaper.

Frankly saying I don't worry much if someone attacks NEM using this attack vector, I hoped that I could steal borrow ur solution, hehe...

From what I remember you wanted qubic to be based on nodes that are doing PoW. I doubt that this will be applicable in Qubic

[utopianfuture]

I remember he said he has a team. Maybe it is just you so I don't know. It doesn't matter because I already said I don't mind if he (or his team) has 5-10-20% or more of Nxt (this is may be sixteen times). It is certainly way better than giving 5% of Nxt to some random guy who think he is so smart because he just happen to be there at the right time.

Ok. Funny thing is that BCNext didn't even pay 1 BTC as he was going to do. Coz he wanted to have 21 BTC invested but another guy sent 1 BTC right before the funding was over. (It's according to his own words, there is still a possibility that he lied and actually owns 50% of the coins.)

I thought earlier that the 47 guy may have a connection with BCNext. Maybe not. I would rather BCNext has 20% of Nxt and being real instead of being a certain cult figure.