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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2010744 times)
tvbcof
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March 19, 2015, 07:35:35 PM
 #22081

Selling of coins in response to an exchange hack or theft is stupid as the hackers  are  more likely to hoard the coins for a long while than the traders who are  actively trading.

Unless those coins selling on exchange are themselves the hacked or stolen coins or are at least driving the liquidity.

Still as disruptive as this is I still see it as a long term positive for Bitcoin.

altho it's possible, it's hard to imagine the hackers/thieves would be able to sell all those coins on an exchange so quickly for fear of drawing unwanted attention.

Why would a thief give a fuck?  Has anyone ever gotten in trouble for stealing BTC through technical means (as opposed to, say, the pirate@40 way)?  If doing so is even 'illegal' in the first place, it is utterly trivial to obtain the necessary degree of plausible deniability to avoid formal legal hassles, and the mainstream legal and law enforcement systems demonstrably preclude pretty much all extra-judicial modes of enforcement.  As best I can tell at least.

One of the best reasons to have some pinnacle reserve base (hopefully Bitcoin) which not everyone uses directly is that those who do use it will be, by nature, more able to protect themselves.  This in and of itself would heavily mitigate the theft and fraud which is jaw-droppingly prevalent in the ecosystem, and which is perfectly understandable in a system which was originally designed to be stand-alone relative to state sponsored support.  An alternate solution which makes a lot of sense to a lot of people (because it is not inherently nonsense) is to just merge Bitcoin into the mainstream law enforcement systems which already exist.  I dis-favor this strategy.  Strongly.


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March 19, 2015, 11:04:20 PM
 #22082

coins that are dumped now, are from the theft that will be exposed, realized, next month Smiley

people first experience stopped withdrawals,
that is because coins are already gone, and being dumped

so, after a month of no response from admins or whoever, scam gets out ,
and those coins are already sold

so , from this dump we can predict that next month (too) will be some kind of scam/theft revelation
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March 21, 2015, 11:29:36 PM
 #22083

 Even if interest rates start to rise in a material fashion, which is unlikely anytime soon, the lack of counter-party risk will make digital gold irresistible for many looking to protect their savings.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellingenheld/2015/03/18/bitcoin-and-gold-when-worlds-collide/?utm_content=buffere05e6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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March 21, 2015, 11:38:49 PM
 #22084

Even if interest rates start to rise in a material fashion, which is unlikely anytime soon, the lack of counter-party risk will make digital gold irresistible for many looking to protect their savings.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellingenheld/2015/03/18/bitcoin-and-gold-when-worlds-collide/?utm_content=buffere05e6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

GBI's website links to this article:

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/28296713/digital-gold

Whole thing seems unnecessary when BTC fits the bill just fine.  Cheesy
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March 21, 2015, 11:54:34 PM
 #22085

Even if interest rates start to rise in a material fashion, which is unlikely anytime soon, the lack of counter-party risk will make digital gold irresistible for many looking to protect their savings.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellingenheld/2015/03/18/bitcoin-and-gold-when-worlds-collide/?utm_content=buffere05e6&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

GBI's website links to this article:

http://www.myfoxny.com/story/28296713/digital-gold

Whole thing seems unnecessary when BTC fits the bill just fine.  Cheesy


talk about lame:

"Singh says GBI is applying some of the innovative mechanisms of Bitcoin to gold, and you never know where it might go."
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March 21, 2015, 11:55:14 PM
 #22086

GBI's website links to this article:
http://www.myfoxny.com/story/28296713/digital-gold
Whole thing seems unnecessary when BTC fits the bill just fine.  Cheesy

Quote
When the order hits the GBI system, it is bid out to different gold dealers around the world. Whoever bids the best price gets the transaction. Then, GBI will move that specific gold bar or coin to whatever location you choose. GBI has about half a dozen vaults across the world. Alternatively, you can even have your gold securely shipped to your home or office. Singh says he even has clients who have opted to bury their gold bars in the backyards.
Yep, burying gold is the way of the future.

Quote
He says GBI is creating a debit card that you can swipe at a local grocery store and deduct from your gold balance. GBI is even working on an app that lets you pay for hotel rooms when you're on vacation.
So which way is it: does the client keep control of the gold or not?

Quote
Singh says GBI is applying some of the innovative mechanisms of Bitcoin to gold, and you never know where it might go.
Speechless.
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March 22, 2015, 02:41:13 AM
 #22087

Hardly a crackdown, but at least something:

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/the-coming-crackdown-on-federal-reserve-power-116267.html
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March 22, 2015, 02:59:06 AM
 #22088

It's posturing.

Actually, it's a public bribe negotiation. Congressmen make some noise, then the parties to stand to lose from the proposal find a way to "settle out of court". The only way this proposal goes anywhere is if the negotiations break down.
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March 22, 2015, 04:18:36 AM
 #22089

"there will only be one" is starting to catch on :

http://www.coindesk.com/bitvc-ceases-litecoin-futures-offering-to-focus-on-bitcoin/
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March 22, 2015, 04:31:57 AM
 #22090


Litecoin fading != "there will only be one" is starting to catch on

All the recent attention to the dangers of BTC's lack of privacy and fungibility have only highlighted the need for coins that offer those features.

Radical transparency certainly has its uses in certain places.  But so does radical opacity.

Hence today's brouhaha among the redditurds:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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Dusty
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March 22, 2015, 04:51:10 AM
 #22091

A very nice article about bitcoin and gold virtues if (when?) the dollar collapses:

When the Dollar Collapses, which is better Money, Gold or Bitcoin?

Articoli bitcoin: Il portico dipinto
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March 22, 2015, 05:13:10 AM
 #22092


Litecoin fading != "there will only be one" is starting to catch on

All the recent attention to the dangers of BTC's lack of privacy and fungibility have only highlighted the need for coins that offer those features.

Radical transparency certainly has its uses in certain places.  But so does radical opacity.

Hence today's brouhaha among the redditurds:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/

That's just a bunch of FUD. Tainting coins has not worked once in Bitcoins history.
smooth
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March 22, 2015, 05:33:11 AM
 #22093


Litecoin fading != "there will only be one" is starting to catch on

All the recent attention to the dangers of BTC's lack of privacy and fungibility have only highlighted the need for coins that offer those features.

Radical transparency certainly has its uses in certain places.  But so does radical opacity.

Hence today's brouhaha among the redditurds:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/

That's just a bunch of FUD. Tainting coins has not worked once in Bitcoins history.

That depends what you mean by worked. If the reports of a blockage of btc-e transactions are correct (I'm not really sure) then people were inconvenienced by the mere attempt to sort through tainted coins, whether or not that attempt was successful. As long as people believe BTC has taint then maybe that perception itself is a problem? This is not the first and won't be the last time we've heard about the concern.

In any case, I have to agree with iCEBREAKER that LTC is irrelevant and the more interesting question is other coins that are actually different from BTC in meaningful ways.
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March 22, 2015, 05:59:37 AM
 #22094


Litecoin fading != "there will only be one" is starting to catch on

All the recent attention to the dangers of BTC's lack of privacy and fungibility have only highlighted the need for coins that offer those features.

Radical transparency certainly has its uses in certain places.  But so does radical opacity.

Hence today's brouhaha among the redditurds:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2zrdxz/withdrawals_halted_as_stolen_evolution_coins_make/

That's just a bunch of FUD. Tainting coins has not worked once in Bitcoins history.

You may define down, or otherwise minimize, as rigorously and deflectively as you like the term 'tainting.'

smooth and I prefer the functional definition, elucidated via praxis.

IE, if you wish to move your coins, but are prevented from doing so by consequence of some third parties' ostensible interest in them rather than technical obstacles, they are by the common understanding 'tainted.'

The nightmare scenario for you Old Whales is a whitelist, where by default movement of all non-permitted coins is forbidden.

Did you read the linked reddit discussion?  Peter Todd makes some good points in this area, albeit on the shaky grounds of the slippery slope trope.


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██████████

Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
Buy and sell XMR near you
P2P Exchange Network
Buy XMR with fiat
sidhujag
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March 22, 2015, 06:45:53 AM
 #22095

A very nice article about bitcoin and gold virtues if (when?) the dollar collapses:

When the Dollar Collapses, which is better Money, Gold or Bitcoin?
Was satoshis intent to allow for a gold backed bitcoin since there is a reason he chose 21 million units based on amount of gold oz estimated that will be mined?
I was also thinking that the limit would be removed though because an exchange medium involving two parties relies on work instead of debt... With proof of work you exchange work for proof of work.. With limit being reached the value of the work stops rising breaking incentive to provide work reducing value as a currency.. Although the population increase may negate that.

Maybe you make it asymptotically reach 21 million so that you have an ever increasing value of work and strong incentives to work to mine.. And create efficiencies to mine easier (making it an energy issue rather than a algorithm issue)

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Pay with Bitcoin, ZCash and many more
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March 22, 2015, 06:53:50 AM
 #22096

The nightmare scenario for you Old Whales is a whitelist, where by default movement of all non-permitted coins is forbidden.

Did you read the linked reddit discussion?  Peter Todd makes some good points in this area, albeit on the shaky grounds of the slippery slope trope.

Voluntary whitelisting will never take off. Government whitelisting might happen, but so might government bans. Both are likely to be isolated/temporary, because of the chilling effects they would have on economic growth in the countries implementing them, once Bitcoin is a little more advanced.

Peter Todd is sounding like a codehead, thinking of everything from the technical angle not actual incentives (cypher's meme: "The Geeks Fail to Understand That Which They Hath Created"). There is no slippery slope of incentives for a voluntary whitelist, and that's why it's never been done before. If thieves come to an exchange practically announcing, "THESE COINS ARE STOLEN," the exchange might see it as good PR to refuse them until the coins are better mixed, but if they do any more than that, refusing coins with some level of taint, they just destroy their own business.

There's a somewhat bombastic speech by Stefan Molyneux on /r/Bitcoin today where he points out that if people had to pay directly for the war on drugs, it would come to $XXXXX per person, and people would find their moral indignation fading away quite quickly. I think the same is true with whitelists. The momentary outrage at scammers is not realistically going to incentivize people to make actual sacrifices, especially monetary sacrifices. People might say they'd patronize BTC-e if they only take clean coins, but if accounts start getting frozen customers will make a beeline out of there.

People think they have a strong opinion when they're gabbing on a forum, but the market reveals how much they really care. It's only in government where people's voice on what they think they want, but would never be willing to pay for, comes to fruition.
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March 22, 2015, 06:54:58 AM
 #22097

IBM, The Fed & GovCoin: Love blockchain, not bitcoin

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3016986-govcoin-ibm-and-intel-flirt-with-the-blockchain
tvbcof
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March 22, 2015, 07:16:36 AM
 #22098


That's just a bunch of FUD. Tainting coins has not worked once in Bitcoins history.

It's never been attempted.  The infrastructure has not been developed or if it has it is not yet unvailed.  All in good time.  Probably we need Gavin's bloatchain to make sure it isn't premature and fails due to adaptation.  I personally think that even primitive tainting will work quite well even at this point due to the mechanism I've described multiple times here.  We'll see soon enough I suspect unless it waits on Gavin and he gets enough resistance to push back his timing significantly.

You may define down, or otherwise minimize, as rigorously and deflectively as you like the term 'tainting.'

smooth and I prefer the functional definition, elucidated via praxis.

IE, if you wish to move your coins, but are prevented from doing so by consequence of some third parties' ostensible interest in them rather than technical obstacles, they are by the common understanding 'tainted.'

The nightmare scenario for you Old Whales is a whitelist, where by default movement of all non-permitted coins is forbidden.

Did you read the linked reddit discussion?  Peter Todd makes some good points in this area, albeit on the shaky grounds of the slippery slope trope.

Thankfully my coins are clean so whitelisting for me would only be a disaster insofar as it would destroy any reason whatsoever for anyone to used Bitcoin and thus the solution (and my stash) would eventually die.  I'd either cash out before it dawned on people that Bitcoin was useless, or hope that a following system would start out where Bitcoin left off vis-a-vis a value base.  Probably some combination of both.


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March 22, 2015, 07:56:36 AM
 #22099

A very nice article about bitcoin and gold virtues if (when?) the dollar collapses:

When the Dollar Collapses, which is better Money, Gold or Bitcoin?
Was satoshis intent to allow for a gold backed bitcoin

No

Quote
since there is a reason he chose 21 million units based on amount of gold oz estimated that will be mined?

and no.

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March 22, 2015, 10:02:32 AM
 #22100

Gold up, Bitcoin down in the last few days, folks.
Although in the grand scheme of things it is all versus the US dollar (the king). I don't think Bitcoin and gold are correlated in any direct way.

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