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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2028317 times)
NotHatinJustTrollin
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March 26, 2015, 11:02:29 AM
Last edit: March 26, 2015, 11:25:26 AM by NotHatinJustTrollin
 #22261

As for a financial company? The innovation of the blockchain (inseparable from bitcoin) is being increasingly acknowledged by all and sundry as a technological and financial breakthrough.  If it is anything like the internet revolution, we're talking multi trillion dollar economy. Just one company (AAPL) is poking through the $750bn mark.
It's "inseparable from bitcoin" only according to pyramid schemers like you.

Bitcoiners: "So we have this blockchain thing, it's a distributed ledger and it has potential but bitcoin is a necessary component, you are forced to adopt it if you want the blockchain"

Everybody else: "Ok, but we don't need this bitcoin currency, only drug dealers, paranoid libertards, scammers and ponzi speculators do"

Bitcoiners: "We don't care. You want the blockchain? You need to adopt bitcoin"

Everybody else: "Alright, then we will create a blockchain/consensus/distributed ledger thing that doesn't force people to adopt, use, and give a high value to a new currency they don't need. If it's a little centralized it's not a problem, cuz decentralization is for libertards."

Bitcoiners: "You can't. It's impossible™"

Everybody else:
http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/01/22/blockchain-things-bot-not-internet-things/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkYVc1YsGCc


More coming soon.

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March 26, 2015, 11:03:52 AM
 #22262

Gold Up , Bitcoin Down.
NotHatinJustTrollin
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March 26, 2015, 11:10:19 AM
Last edit: March 26, 2015, 11:22:27 AM by NotHatinJustTrollin
 #22263

The funny thing is that you proponents of the "omg errybody will use teh blokchain for these smart contracts things, bitcoin to the moon" don't realize that there have already been similar attempts to build services that use the Bitcoin blockchain but they have faced some serious resistance from Bitcoin core developers who consider this type of activity as “blockchain spam” and in some cases made attempts to block and inhibit these activities.

In the future nobody will use the *bitcoin* blockchain for these things.
Sorry.

Hint: VCs usually talk about the potential of "blockchain technology", not of the bitcoin blockchain or of the [insert your favorite scamcoin here] blockchain.


Bitcoin and shitcoins are technological dinosaurs. We all know what happened to dinosaurs amirite?



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March 26, 2015, 11:29:58 AM
 #22264

Everybody else: "Alright, then we will create a blockchain/consensus/distributed ledger thing that doesn't force people to adopt, use, and give a high value to a new currency they don't need. If it's a little centralized it's not a problem, cuz decentralization is for libertards."

Bitcoiners: "You can't. It's impossible™"


I don't think anyone said it was impossible if you are creating something that is centralized.

79b79aa8d5047da6d3XX
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March 26, 2015, 12:23:11 PM
 #22265

Not impossible. Just utterly pointless.

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79b79aa8d5047da6d3XX
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March 26, 2015, 12:37:21 PM
 #22266

The published piece to read would be: 'Ideal Money', John F. Nash, Jr.,  Southern Economic Journal, Vol. 69, No. 1 (Jul., 2002), pp. 4-11.

If someone can't get access and has a public repository where I can put a copy, I'd be glad to.

As for Nash being Satoshi ... very doubtful (the incomprehensible video starts with: "Bitcoin might not be it ... but gold or silver ..."). But he, like Hayek before him, has been talking about a nationless currency whose supply is outside of political control.

i'd be interested.  look likes their a paywall...

It's not a paywall it's the paywall. The one that Aaron Swartz had tried to unlock with an act of civil disobedience that unfortunately had cost him his own life.

Exactly. Knowledge that has already been paid for, and whose only purpose for being generated is to be disseminated, reproduced and applied, is restricted and appropriated for profit. Hindering the advance of science and perpetuating epistemic unfairness across the globe.   

It is a scandal and an outrage.

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March 26, 2015, 01:05:02 PM
 #22267

Not impossible. Just utterly pointless.

Largely agree. The only reason I qualify it is I don't rule out some sort of unknown variation on the theme that makes it useful. I haven't seen that however.
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March 26, 2015, 01:47:33 PM
 #22268

Exactly. Knowledge that has already been paid for, and whose only purpose for being generated is to be disseminated, reproduced and applied, is restricted and appropriated for profit. Hindering the advance of science and perpetuating epistemic unfairness across the globe.  

It is a scandal and an outrage.

Intellectual property is a scam. But that's what you get when you start running out of tangible things to monetize in order to prevent your economy from exploding in an inflationary spiral of doom because it is based on the presumption of infinite exponential growth.

Not even the most deluded bitcoin bulltard assumes bitcoin is going to grow exponentially forever yet we are asked to believe this about the global economy at large.

It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
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March 26, 2015, 02:51:01 PM
Last edit: May 20, 2015, 04:29:13 AM by 79b79aa8d5047da6d3XX
 #22269

Intellectual property is a scam.
Let's just remember that, in the present case, neither Nash nor the SEJ nor Princeton are making a penny for the paywalling of the article. Monies go to Wiley Publishers, who did not pay the author, edit the journal, or referee the article. They simply put it in their database.

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Ivanhoe
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March 26, 2015, 03:14:07 PM
 #22270

Intellectual property is a scam.
Let's just remember that, in the present case, neither Nash nor the SEJ nor Princeton are making a penny for the paywalling of the article. Monies go to Wiley Publishers, who did not pay the author, edit the journal or referee the article, but simply put it in their database.
Wiley does have a shitty paywall though. Just type in the header of the article through google scholar and then click on the "download pdf" button in the right column without accessing the website. There you go.   
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March 26, 2015, 03:20:20 PM
 #22271

The published piece to read would be: 'Ideal Money', John F. Nash, Jr.,  Southern Economic Journal, Vol. 69, No. 1 (Jul., 2002), pp. 4-11.

If someone can't get access and has a public repository where I can put a copy, I'd be glad to.

As for Nash being Satoshi ... very doubtful (the incomprehensible video starts with: "Bitcoin might not be it ... but gold or silver ..."). But he, like Hayek before him, has been talking about a nationless currency whose supply is outside of political control.

i'd not heard this one before today:  Satoshi Nakamoto = IAmNash sato koto

interesting...

Yup.. and also Szabo is a word in Chinese spelled Nash backwards or something.

He talks about ideal currency and hints that USD with central bank inflation targetting is ideal but not really ideal...just good enough for now because there is no alternative and smart money is searching for the asymptotically ideal currency which offers a better more stable token based on non political control over supply... hello proof of work (owing debt) based on the efficiency of energy can't get a better source of a commodity that can't be manipulated. Unless you can create free energy, proof of work will always be worth atleast the amount of energy put into it (although it doesn't right now because of speculative pressures).

and it's more than just the electricity + hardware that a gvt would have to overcome.  there's the unfactored costs related to sweat equity, entrepreneurship, and ancillary supplies put into mining.  take my word for it, there are numerous cables, heatsinks, extra power supplies, risers, racks, AC, fans, etc that need to be bought and assembled.  there's the knowledge factor of programming all that hardware to maximum efficiency.  and all the time and frustration.  i have a busy day job yet i was willing to put in the time at night and on weekends to get my hardware up and running.  and that doesn't count the problems that take more time troubleshooting or going in on weekends.  that's all voluntary and uncompensated when doing the calculations for ROI.

i'll tell you what drives that; the profit motive.  massive profit motive as we've seen since 2011.  mining BTC with expectations that they will increase in value as digital gold and possibly as a replacement reserve currency.  how many gvt workers would be willing to put in all that time and effort towards launching a 51% attack?  answer:  none.  many of them probably own some BTC and would be somewhat reluctant.  and this doesn't account for Bitcoin miners holding some hashrate back to protect against such an attack.  i'm holding back an admittedly smallish 2TH/s to bring online in case of an emergency.  how many others are doing the same?  anyone who wants to attack the network better factor in at least another 50% HR in costs if they dare do such a thing.  

and if Gavin is right about stuffing such an attack quickly and easily, who's gonna take the blame for wasting $100M of taxpayer money or whatever the # is?  there is such a thing as suing the federal gvt that needs to be considered as well if they mess with private property outside the law.
Im not talking about that its assumed govt cant control energy efficiency. Im talking about using it as an index like cpi to dtermine economy.. Rather than interest rate targeting done randomely it seems. Anyways it lines up well with the notion of work which requires energy.. When you pay someone you are transfering work for proof of work... Makes total sense, the amount someone is willing to exchange is the price which is determined by how expensive it is to mine a bitcoin.. Even as it becomes more efficient... There is incentive to increase efficiency in mining which becomes a power problem rather than an asic algo issue.. Kinda like silicon hitting its hard limits on cpus and now having to solve the real problem of making things smaller in electronics while decreasing power usage and increasing calculations per second...

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March 26, 2015, 06:04:15 PM
 #22272

Bitcoin and shitcoins are technological dinosaurs. We all know what happened to dinosaurs amirite?

The dinosaurs needed to lay their eggs in nests inaccessible to those pesky little mammals, so they evolved into birds.


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March 26, 2015, 10:45:55 PM
 #22273

Dearest NLC,

Quote
It's "inseparable from bitcoin" only according to pyramid schemers like you.

Bitcoiners: "So we have this blockchain thing, it's a "DECENTRALISED" distributed ledger and it has potential but bitcoin is a necessary component, you are forced to adopt it if you want the blockchain"

Everybody else: "Ok, but we don't need this bitcoin currency "I don't think anyone needs this bitcoin currency", only drug dealers, paranoid libertards, scammers and ponzi speculators do"

Bitcoiners: "We don't care. You want the blockchain? You need to adopt bitcoin"

Everybody else: "Alright, then we will create a blockchain/CONSENSUS/distributed ledger thing that doesn't force people to adopt, use, and give a high value to a new currency they don't need. If it's a little CENTRALIZED it's not a problem FOR ME, cuz I THINK decentralization is for libertards."

Bitcoiners: "You can't. It's impossible™"

Everybody else:
http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/01/22/blockchain-things-bot-not-internet-things/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkYVc1YsGCc


More coming soon.


Avoid being disingenuous by omitting relevant information.

Stop conflating your opinion with fact.
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March 26, 2015, 10:48:45 PM
 #22274

Dearest NLC,

Quote
It's "inseparable from bitcoin" only according to pyramid schemers like you.

Bitcoiners: "So we have this blockchain thing, it's a "DECENTRALISED" distributed ledger and it has potential but bitcoin is a necessary component, you are forced to adopt it if you want the blockchain"

Everybody else: "Ok, but we don't need this bitcoin currency "I don't think anyone needs this bitcoin currency", only drug dealers, paranoid libertards, scammers and ponzi speculators do"

Bitcoiners: "We don't care. You want the blockchain? You need to adopt bitcoin"

Everybody else: "Alright, then we will create a blockchain/CONSENSUS/distributed ledger thing that doesn't force people to adopt, use, and give a high value to a new currency they don't need. If it's a little CENTRALIZED it's not a problem FOR ME, cuz I THINK decentralization is for libertards."

Bitcoiners: "You can't. It's impossible™"

Everybody else:
http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/01/22/blockchain-things-bot-not-internet-things/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkYVc1YsGCc


More coming soon.


Avoid being disingenuous by omitting relevant information.

Stop conflating your opinion with fact.

that post just shows he doesn't understand the first thing about Bitcoin and is only here to troll.
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March 27, 2015, 11:12:20 AM
 #22275

People are looking at the prices on exchanges that will soon be obsolete.  When the next jump happens, the exchanges will be bypassed in favor of Wall Street. Billions will be traded and amateur exchanges will melt. We won't need to check price websites. They will be quoting Winkdex.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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March 27, 2015, 12:23:49 PM
 #22276

People are looking at the prices on exchanges that will soon be obsolete.  When the next jump happens, the exchanges will be bypassed in favor of Wall Street. Billions will be traded and amateur exchanges will melt. We won't need to check price websites. They will be quoting Winkdex.

Imho there is no jump to be expected until next halving. Everything else happening is just noise.

Ps: screw wall street!
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March 27, 2015, 12:38:27 PM
 #22277

People are looking at the prices on exchanges that will soon be obsolete.  When the next jump happens, the exchanges will be bypassed in favor of Wall Street. Billions will be traded and amateur exchanges will melt. We won't need to check price websites. They will be quoting Winkdex.
Cool story bro.
I have been hearing this "Wall Street is coming" vague fantasy since the beginning of 2014.
I thought they were supposed to come (for real this time) with Coinbase regulated™ exchange. Where are they? In the 800k in bids there?

Oh yes, I forgot they are secretly crashing the price to accumulate  Cheesy




Hint: Opening up a market where they could get in doesn't mean they will  Cheesy

     Cheesy
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 Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy


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March 27, 2015, 02:46:20 PM
 #22278

Imho there is no jump to be expected until next halving. Everything else happening is just noise.

I've never seen the halving-drives-bubbles argument fully explained. It seems to me that since we are talking about CCMF price jumps of at least tenfold, and the inflation rate is nowhere near that, then either most bitcoins are immovable or the halving isn't in fact that important.

For example, if we have an inflation rate of 10% per year but investment increases tenfold during the year, then we still get roughly a 9x increase in price. Now if half the coins are immovable, either because they are lost or because for some reason the holders refuse to cash any out, then the effective inflation rate looks more like 20%. If 3/4 of the coins are immobile, then 40%. And if investment only increases by say 4x per year, then I think that's only like a 2.5x price increase during the non-halving years. But 4x vs. 2.5x is still not that much of a difference.

If the halving does make a huge difference, I would have to conclude that it's because few bitcoins actually make it to market for whatever reason. Perhaps it's the Bitcoin Baron's Paradox: "After the first few million dollars, why cash out any more? Fiat currency is a downright dangerous place to park your money!" (It could get frozen, banks could fail, dollar could collapse, etc. Gold has jurisdictional risks. Bitcoin is the ideal place for savings, so even if the price rises there is no reason to cash out very much more.)
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March 27, 2015, 02:52:04 PM
 #22279

If the halving does make a huge difference, I would have to conclude that it's because few bitcoins make it to market for whatever reason. Perhaps it's the Bitcoin Baron's Paradox: "After the first few million dollars, why cash out any more? Fiat currency is a downright dangerous place to park your money, it could get frozen, banks could fail, dollar could collapse, etc. Gold has jurisdictional risks. Bitcoin is the ideal place for savings, so even if the price rises there is no reason to cash out significantly more."
Bitcoin adoption is a form of emigration.

Prediction models whose accuracy depends on a long term stable equilibrium between Bitcoin and national currencies are wrong.
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March 27, 2015, 03:01:00 PM
Last edit: March 27, 2015, 03:11:21 PM by Zangelbert Bingledack
 #22280

Bitcoin adoption is a form of emigration.

Prediction models whose accuracy depends on a long term stable equilibrium between Bitcoin and national currencies are wrong.

I guess we can say that either the halvings do make a huge difference and emigration into Bitcoin is already happening to a substantial degree, presumably usually for the practical reasons I mentioned, or the halvings don't make a huge difference and emigration isn't really happening but instead people are mostly optimizing for ending up with the most fiat. If the next halving triggers another moonshoot then we'll have additional confirmation that emigration is a much bigger factor than merely people playing for fiat profit.

I certainly don't expect a long-term stable equilibrium: if Bitcoin succeeds, fiat has nowhere to go but zero. However, I'm surprised that the emigration dynamic could already be taking hold to the extent that halvings would make such an enormous difference.

Do you think the emigration dynamic is being driven by the reasons I mentioned (Bitcoin Baron's Paradox / Bitcoin is just a safer, wiser, more flexible and reliable place to keep your nest egg), or more by ideology, or something else?
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