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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 2010634 times)
sickpig
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March 25, 2015, 10:51:23 PM
 #22241


we talked about this before.

i'm going thru more of his stuff.  i'm liking it.

Search the  "Bitcoin 20MB fork" thread for traincarswreck's posts you'll find quite a few resources aimed to link Nash and bitcoin (mind you that he can be very "cryptic" at times:)

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March 26, 2015, 01:06:26 AM
 #22242



One of the stranger Satoshi theories: Satoshi == Nick Szabo == Wei Dai == John Nash. I skimmed this one night: http://fuk.io/who-is-satoshi-nakamoto-the-truth/ . Seems a bit nuts, even by Bitcoin standards.

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March 26, 2015, 01:42:34 AM
 #22243

One of the stranger Satoshi theories: Satoshi == Nick Szabo == Wei Dai == John Nash.
What if one person used all four of those aliases, then decided to obscure the trail even further by passing one or more of the identities to a successor, DPR-style?
cypherdoc
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March 26, 2015, 01:44:29 AM
 #22244

just watched his youtube lecture at Scranton in 2011.  dang, he knows everything about money; including current events.  aand, he thinks about it like we do.
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March 26, 2015, 02:00:07 AM
 #22245

The published piece to read would be: 'Ideal Money', John F. Nash, Jr.,  Southern Economic Journal, Vol. 69, No. 1 (Jul., 2002), pp. 4-11.

If someone can't get access and has a public repository where I can put a copy, I'd be glad to.

As for Nash being Satoshi ... very doubtful (the incomprehensible video starts with: "Bitcoin might not be it ... but gold or silver ..."). But he, like Hayek before him, has been talking about a nationless currency whose supply is outside of political control.
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March 26, 2015, 02:12:25 AM
 #22246

i like Peter for the most part, but because his specialty is stirring the pot. 

Better version!


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smooth
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March 26, 2015, 02:21:43 AM
 #22247

what happened to yours and everyone elses FUD about the pools themselves organizing to do it? 
Looks like a bitcoin core developer is expressing that same FUD!
Heresy!

Quick! Shoot him down!

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/572517325250801664?lang=en
https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/572519382108139520
https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/572519758769213440


whoa!  i guess if Peter Todd said it, it must be true!

look, i like Peter for the most part, but his specialty is stirring the pot. 

Every one of his statements is true.

It isn't that the split of hash across pools is fake, it is that there is absolutely no way to know, and the incentive to lie is both there and has increased.

It's quite silly to pretend this isn't a concern. The security model of mining is based on any actor's share being small. Small doesn't mean <=50% or even <20%, its more like 2% or maybe 0.2%.
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March 26, 2015, 02:31:16 AM
 #22248

The published piece to read would be: 'Ideal Money', John F. Nash, Jr.,  Southern Economic Journal, Vol. 69, No. 1 (Jul., 2002), pp. 4-11.

If someone can't get access and has a public repository where I can put a copy, I'd be glad to.

As for Nash being Satoshi ... very doubtful (the incomprehensible video starts with: "Bitcoin might not be it ... but gold or silver ..."). But he, like Hayek before him, has been talking about a nationless currency whose supply is outside of political control.

i'd be interested.  look likes their a paywall...
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March 26, 2015, 02:46:10 AM
 #22249

what happened to yours and everyone elses FUD about the pools themselves organizing to do it? 
Looks like a bitcoin core developer is expressing that same FUD!
Heresy!

Quick! Shoot him down!

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/572517325250801664?lang=en
https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/572519382108139520
https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/572519758769213440


whoa!  i guess if Peter Todd said it, it must be true!

look, i like Peter for the most part, but his specialty is stirring the pot. 

Every one of his statements is true.

It isn't that the split of hash across pools is fake, it is that there is absolutely no way to know, and the incentive to lie is both there and has increased.

It's quite silly to pretend this isn't a concern. The security model of mining is based on any actor's share being small. Small doesn't mean <=50% or even <20%, its more like 2% or maybe 0.2%.


you're certainly welcome to be concerned.  i'm not.  Nash's Equilibrium, whom we just happen to be talking about, looks to me to have distributed the hash rate nicely since the ghash incident according to the game theory.  and probably for the last time as the hash rate technological advances have plateaued.  this was expected as hardware is now becoming commoditized and comparably powered units can affordably get into the hands of smaller miners again.  they still have to associate with a pool, of course, but those pools are being diversified and spread quite obviously.

any attack by a gvt has also been discussed quite a bit.  there are thing that can be done by the network to block the source according to Gavin:
http://gavintech.blogspot.nl/2012/05/neutralizing-51-attack.html

If a 51% attacker stopped including all broadcast transactions in blocks "we" would quickly figure out a rule or rules to reject their blocks.

Something like "ignore a longer chain orphaning the current best chain if the sum(priorities of transactions included in new chain) is much less than sum(priorities of transactions in the part of the current best chain that would be orphaned)" would mean a 51% attacker would have to have both lots of hashing power AND lots of old, high-priority bitcoins to keep up a transaction-denial-of-service attack. And they'd pretty quickly run out of old, high-priority bitcoins and would be forced to either include other people's transactions or have their chain rejected.

I'm tempted to code that up and run some tests on a testnet-in-a-box, but there are much higher priority things on my TODO list; I don't think a 51% attack is likely. You'd spend a lot of time and money on an attack that "we" would neuter within a day or two.




there are lots of ppl monitoring the BC for just such an attack.  and for what?  double spend for a cup of coffee?  i don't think so.
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March 26, 2015, 02:50:09 AM
 #22250

The published piece to read would be: 'Ideal Money', John F. Nash, Jr.,  Southern Economic Journal, Vol. 69, No. 1 (Jul., 2002), pp. 4-11.

If someone can't get access and has a public repository where I can put a copy, I'd be glad to.

As for Nash being Satoshi ... very doubtful (the incomprehensible video starts with: "Bitcoin might not be it ... but gold or silver ..."). But he, like Hayek before him, has been talking about a nationless currency whose supply is outside of political control.

i'd not heard this one before today:  Satoshi Nakamoto = IAmNash sato koto

interesting...
tabnloz
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March 26, 2015, 02:55:42 AM
 #22251

what happened to yours and everyone elses FUD about the pools themselves organizing to do it?  
Looks like a bitcoin core developer is expressing that same FUD!
Heresy!

Quick! Shoot him down!

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/572517325250801664?lang=en
https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/572519382108139520
https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/572519758769213440


whoa!  i guess if Peter Todd said it, it must be true!

look, i like Peter for the most part, but his specialty is stirring the pot.  
I didn't say that because he said it it must be true, I just show that it's not just a bunch of FUD by some bitcointalk trolls like you are trying to picture it.

i call you a troll b/c it's obvious to everyone around here that when you start a bunch of FUD threads that are meant to generate fear and selling, you lose credibility. like this one:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1001698.0  if you'll notice, i don't start threads.  i pretty much stay here b/c my goal is to generate and maintain quality, relatively academic Bitcoin discussion within this thread that has become known and has gained credibility.  i'm not into headlines, like you.  so yeah, if you enter here with that same FUD, i will call you out and expect something more from you.
Ok, so you think a thread on bitcointalk can influence the price of the BTC markets, and that is the reason I actually opened a thread. Not because I wanted to give my honest opinion about what I think is currently happening. Nah.
I opened similar threads when price was at $1000, $800, $570, $400 etc offering similar technical arguments. I guess those were FUD too.

I clearly see that in your thread you guys are not interested in reading any bearish/contrarian opinions without flagging it as FUD, bullshit and attacking the posters personally (even though they didn't do it in their posts expressing their opinions).
I never attacked anybody personally, just expressed an opinion.

You guys can carry on and jerk each other off while bitcoin unexpectedly dumps.

I remember Spiff talking about how he couldn't wait for the delusional bears to FUD and dump into his bids at $500-$390.
Because losing several billions of marketcap in one year is just the same as flash crashing for a few moments because of a $50k dump or whatever in 2010. Of course it would be the same.
Only fools think that "This Time is Different™".


Carry on good sir, I won't be posting in this thread from now on, don't worry.


Only fools think that this time is different.....like with automobiles, telephones, mobile phones, computers, the internet.

Ironic thing is, posters like WFTN are price trolls. They like to comment on how unthreatening & flawed bitcoin is (sarcastic 'this time its different'), but then go on to say it could be shutdown by governments.....presumably as its a disintermediating threat.

I would say all possibilities remain, but, like Cypher says, the longer it goes without happening, the more the industry expands, the more ingrained it becomes, the harder it will be to destroy intentionally. Theoretically a large company, govt could invest $50mn but how can you naked short it? Maybe Jim Cramer & the gang exposed by Deep Capture will get involved. They couldnt buy $50mn worth (except OTC) or they'd send it to the moon, and I think the US govt could be ruled out judging by their DPR auctions / Bitlicense proposals. A possibility would be Satoshi's stash, in the Dr Frankenstein trying to kill his own creation sense.

As for a financial company? The innovation of the blockchain (inseparable from bitcoin) is being increasingly acknowledged by all and sundry as a technological and financial breakthrough.  If it is anything like the internet revolution, we're talking multi trillion dollar economy. Just one company (AAPL) is poking through the $750bn mark.



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March 26, 2015, 02:59:18 AM
 #22252



One of the stranger Satoshi theories: Satoshi == Nick Szabo == Wei Dai == John Nash. I skimmed this one night: http://fuk.io/who-is-satoshi-nakamoto-the-truth/ . Seems a bit nuts, even by Bitcoin standards.

Not really.. he is really one of the few people who were capable of developing it and had incentive.. cryptographer, economist with knowledge of gov't workings, mathematician and hobby programmer (with help).. he goes out of his way to NOT mention bitcoin even when asked about it.. I suspect truth will come out when he passes.. although he looks to be in pretty good shape still. The name is obviously made up as noone exists by it, thus it is cryptically linked to the real identity.. perfect for a game theorist and cryptographer to play with people trying to find out. Satoshi === Nash

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sidhujag
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March 26, 2015, 03:02:21 AM
 #22253

The published piece to read would be: 'Ideal Money', John F. Nash, Jr.,  Southern Economic Journal, Vol. 69, No. 1 (Jul., 2002), pp. 4-11.

If someone can't get access and has a public repository where I can put a copy, I'd be glad to.

As for Nash being Satoshi ... very doubtful (the incomprehensible video starts with: "Bitcoin might not be it ... but gold or silver ..."). But he, like Hayek before him, has been talking about a nationless currency whose supply is outside of political control.

i'd not heard this one before today:  Satoshi Nakamoto = IAmNash sato koto

interesting...

Yup.. and also Szabo is a word in Chinese spelled Nash backwards or something.

He talks about ideal currency and hints that USD with central bank inflation targetting is ideal but not really ideal...just good enough for now because there is no alternative and smart money is searching for the asymptotically ideal currency which offers a better more stable token based on non political control over supply... hello proof of work (owing debt) based on the efficiency of energy can't get a better source of a commodity that can't be manipulated. Unless you can create free energy, proof of work will always be worth atleast the amount of energy put into it (although it doesn't right now because of speculative pressures).

★☆★Syscoin - Decentralized Marketplace and Multisig Platform
Pay with Bitcoin, ZCash and many more
For more visit Syscoin.org  ★☆★
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March 26, 2015, 03:28:08 AM
 #22254

One of the stranger Satoshi theories: Satoshi == Nick Szabo == Wei Dai == John Nash.
What if one person used all four of those aliases, then decided to obscure the trail even further by passing one or more of the identities to a successor, DPR-style?

There's that quote from Szabo from the early '90s where he comments on how building rep for his various online identities takes a lot of work... Smiley

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March 26, 2015, 05:04:19 AM
 #22255

i'd be interested. 
http://www.mediafire.com/view/aql2lsu7713pq55/nash_ideal_money.pdf
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March 26, 2015, 05:14:54 AM
 #22256

The published piece to read would be: 'Ideal Money', John F. Nash, Jr.,  Southern Economic Journal, Vol. 69, No. 1 (Jul., 2002), pp. 4-11.

If someone can't get access and has a public repository where I can put a copy, I'd be glad to.

As for Nash being Satoshi ... very doubtful (the incomprehensible video starts with: "Bitcoin might not be it ... but gold or silver ..."). But he, like Hayek before him, has been talking about a nationless currency whose supply is outside of political control.

i'd not heard this one before today:  Satoshi Nakamoto = IAmNash sato koto

interesting...

Yup.. and also Szabo is a word in Chinese spelled Nash backwards or something.

He talks about ideal currency and hints that USD with central bank inflation targetting is ideal but not really ideal...just good enough for now because there is no alternative and smart money is searching for the asymptotically ideal currency which offers a better more stable token based on non political control over supply... hello proof of work (owing debt) based on the efficiency of energy can't get a better source of a commodity that can't be manipulated. Unless you can create free energy, proof of work will always be worth atleast the amount of energy put into it (although it doesn't right now because of speculative pressures).

and it's more than just the electricity + hardware that a gvt would have to overcome.  there's the unfactored costs related to sweat equity, entrepreneurship, and ancillary supplies put into mining.  take my word for it, there are numerous cables, heatsinks, extra power supplies, risers, racks, AC, fans, etc that need to be bought and assembled.  there's the knowledge factor of programming all that hardware to maximum efficiency.  and all the time and frustration.  i have a busy day job yet i was willing to put in the time at night and on weekends to get my hardware up and running.  and that doesn't count the problems that take more time troubleshooting or going in on weekends.  that's all voluntary and uncompensated when doing the calculations for ROI.

i'll tell you what drives that; the profit motive.  massive profit motive as we've seen since 2011.  mining BTC with expectations that they will increase in value as digital gold and possibly as a replacement reserve currency.  how many gvt workers would be willing to put in all that time and effort towards launching a 51% attack?  answer:  none.  many of them probably own some BTC and would be somewhat reluctant.  and this doesn't account for Bitcoin miners holding some hashrate back to protect against such an attack.  i'm holding back an admittedly smallish 2TH/s to bring online in case of an emergency.  how many others are doing the same?  anyone who wants to attack the network better factor in at least another 50% HR in costs if they dare do such a thing.  

and if Gavin is right about stuffing such an attack quickly and easily, who's gonna take the blame for wasting $100M of taxpayer money or whatever the # is?  there is such a thing as suing the federal gvt that needs to be considered as well if they mess with private property outside the law.
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March 26, 2015, 05:28:51 AM
 #22257

well isn't that purdy.  all that talk about the Bitnodes Incentive Program and that cool new Bitnode plug & play:

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March 26, 2015, 06:50:19 AM
 #22258

well isn't that purdy.  all that talk about the Bitnodes Incentive Program and that cool new Bitnode plug & play:



could be suspicious  Huh

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/30ay6u/almost_10_more_full_nodes_since_this_morning/cpquf15?context=3


Quote
That's odd: all 600+ new nodes came online with the user agent "/Satoshi:0.10.99/Gangnam Style:v4.01"
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March 26, 2015, 07:16:26 AM
 #22259

The published piece to read would be: 'Ideal Money', John F. Nash, Jr.,  Southern Economic Journal, Vol. 69, No. 1 (Jul., 2002), pp. 4-11.

If someone can't get access and has a public repository where I can put a copy, I'd be glad to.

As for Nash being Satoshi ... very doubtful (the incomprehensible video starts with: "Bitcoin might not be it ... but gold or silver ..."). But he, like Hayek before him, has been talking about a nationless currency whose supply is outside of political control.

i'd be interested.  look likes their a paywall...

It's not a paywall it's the paywall. The one that Aaron Swartz had tried to unlock with an act of civil disobedience that unfortunately had cost him his own life.

Bitcoin is a participatory system which ought to respect the right of self determinism of all of its users - Gregory Maxwell.
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March 26, 2015, 08:35:07 AM
 #22260

well isn't that purdy.  all that talk about the Bitnodes Incentive Program and that cool new Bitnode plug & play:



could be suspicious  Huh

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/30ay6u/almost_10_more_full_nodes_since_this_morning/cpquf15?context=3


Quote
That's odd: all 600+ new nodes came online with the user agent "/Satoshi:0.10.99/Gangnam Style:v4.01"

Could be a bunch of Bitseeds being tested.
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