Bitcoin Forum
December 04, 2016, 01:59:31 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 ... 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 [530] 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 ... 1560 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1803902 times)
manfred
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924


Energy is Wealth


View Profile
August 14, 2014, 07:53:43 AM
 #10581


Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
domob
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 936


View Profile WWW
August 14, 2014, 08:01:51 AM
 #10582

The german spike could be related to the repetition of a piece about "Bitcoin Millionaires" on Galileo, which is a popular tv show about various "science" topics.

Use your Namecoin identity as OpenID: https://nameid.org/
Donations: 1domobKsPZ5cWk2kXssD8p8ES1qffGUCm | NMC: NCdomobcmcmVdxC5yxMitojQ4tvAtv99pY
BM-GtQnWM3vcdorfqpKXsmfHQ4rVYPG5pKS | GPG 0xA7330737
smoothie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1834


LEALANA Monero Physical Silver Coins


View Profile
August 14, 2014, 08:31:49 AM
 #10583

Every time I see this thread and then watch BTC tank 10%+ in 2 or 3 days makes me laugh.
I have over 30oz of gold coins and would buy 30 more before I buy 5 BTC.
I question how many people here own 1/10th of that amount of BTC
Gold has been up $15 the last weeks.  And good ol bitcoin, tanking again, no surprises there.
But oh yah, it will be $1500 again by January.  
Thats a good one.
Maybe more like $150 per BTC there you experts.
LOLZ
People here make me Huh

everytime i see ppl like you enter this thread and scream buy gold, i laugh.  b/c i think about how i sold out all my silver starting @ 48 and gold @ 1750 to then turn around and start plowing that into BTC starting @ 1.60.

so there.

edit:  it wasn't a linear sequential sell then buy process, so don't go back and line up prices with dates as they won't match up.  it was a conscious decision made to execute a transitional strategy at opportune times starting in March 2011 when i finally wrapped my head around Bitcoin after 2 mo of non-stop research starting in Jan 2011.  i have the advantage of having lived and breathed pretty much the entire life history of this ongoing up and down transition which gives me some perspective.  sure i could start being very wrong, but i don't think so.

Don't worry people like that are only looking at the short term.

Bitcoin is waaaay up % wise over the past 3 years as compared to gold. No contest.

███████████████████████████████████████

            ,╓p@@███████@╗╖,           
        ,p████████████████████N,       
      d█████████████████████████b     
    d██████████████████████████████æ   
  ,████²█████████████████████████████, 
 ,█████  ╙████████████████████╨  █████y
 ██████    `████████████████`    ██████
║██████       Ñ███████████`      ███████
███████         ╩██████Ñ         ███████
███████    ▐▄     ²██╩     a▌    ███████
╢██████    ▐▓█▄          ▄█▓▌    ███████
 ██████    ▐▓▓▓▓▌,     ▄█▓▓▓▌    ██████─
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓█,,▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
           ▐▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▌          
    ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓─  
     ²▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓╩    
        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
███████████████████████████████████████

. ★☆ WWW.LEALANA.COM        My PGP fingerprint is A764D833.        SMOOTHIE'S HEALTH AND FITNESS JOURNAL          History of Monero development Visualization ★☆ .
LEALANA  PHYSICAL MONERO COINS 999 FINE SILVER.
 
Zarathustra
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 938


View Profile
August 14, 2014, 08:36:29 AM
 #10584

Every time I see this thread and then watch BTC tank 10%+ in 2 or 3 days makes me laugh.
I have over 30oz of gold coins and would buy 30 more before I buy 5 BTC.
I question how many people here own 1/10th of that amount of BTC
Gold has been up $15 the last weeks.  And good ol bitcoin, tanking again, no surprises there.
But oh yah, it will be $1500 again by January.  
Thats a good one.
Maybe more like $150 per BTC there you experts.
LOLZ
People here make me Huh

everytime i see ppl like you enter this thread and scream buy gold, i laugh.  b/c i think about how i sold out all my silver starting @ 48 and gold @ 1750 to then turn around and start plowing that into BTC starting @ 1.60.

so there.

edit:  it wasn't a linear sequential sell then buy process, so don't go back and line up prices with dates as they won't match up.  it was a conscious decision made to execute a transitional strategy at opportune times starting in March 2011 when i finally wrapped my head around Bitcoin after 2 mo of non-stop research starting in Jan 2011.  i have the advantage of having lived and breathed pretty much the entire life history of this ongoing up and down transition which gives me some perspective.  sure i could start being very wrong, but i don't think so.

Don't worry people like that are only looking at the short term.

Bitcoin is waaaay up % wise over the past 3 years as compared to gold. No contest.


"Staat nenne ich's, wo alle Gifttrinker sind, Gute und Schlimme: Staat, wo alle sich selber verlieren, Gute und Schlimme:
Staat, wo der langsame Selbstmord aller – »das Leben« heisst."
Grafzep
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 92


View Profile
August 14, 2014, 09:30:09 AM
 #10585


well, i've been quite vocal about not liking the Bitcoin "fix" being planned by Second Market.  maybe routing around NY serves a purpose; avoid that debacle.

I'm not sure why you have such a problem with this. Is it perhaps all the negative connotations with the word 'fix'? Perhaps there is another word that could be used for a periodic agreed trading price.

There will be a whole group of people who want to hold and (very occasionally) buy/sell bitcoin. The ones that don't want to or can't use exchanges directly and don't want to or can't be bothered with storage. They will be happy to pay their 1% for someone to manage all that and even insure it already. Whatever you think of that, it will be a legitimate service.

But that service will not be able to offer in/out, buy/sell to it's customers at what we would call "market". It simply can't work in practice: the price would change between the client's order and it's execution and that would freak out the client. No one needs or can handle the grief of every order being disputed and/or delayed or the liabilities that might follow.

So you have a daily (or twice daily) point where you try and work out a fair price and use that as the bench mark for the queued trades. You can't use a historical price because you would be played, so it has to be the next price point. Similarly, you can't just use a given exchange at a known time because that too would be easily played. So you use a basket of prices including major exchanges and major OTC brokers and make that your price point. You (perhaps mistakenly) call it the "fix".

Is it open to collusion? Obviously. But if done regularly or too brazenly then the client won't play any more and you'll be out of business. On average it'll probably be fair enough because of the tension between those that want a high price and a low price. Clients using this kind of fund don't really expect the last pip of value, they want expose and ease while they get on with the rest of their lives.

The market would handsomely reward your improved system...



cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
August 14, 2014, 09:54:53 AM
 #10586


well, i've been quite vocal about not liking the Bitcoin "fix" being planned by Second Market.  maybe routing around NY serves a purpose; avoid that debacle.

I'm not sure why you have such a problem with this. Is it perhaps all the negative connotations with the word 'fix'? Perhaps there is another word that could be used for a periodic agreed trading price.

There will be a whole group of people who want to hold and (very occasionally) buy/sell bitcoin. The ones that don't want to or can't use exchanges directly and don't want to or can't be bothered with storage. They will be happy to pay their 1% for someone to manage all that and even insure it already. Whatever you think of that, it will be a legitimate service.

But that service will not be able to offer in/out, buy/sell to it's customers at what we would call "market". It simply can't work in practice: the price would change between the client's order and it's execution and that would freak out the client. No one needs or can handle the grief of every order being disputed and/or delayed or the liabilities that might follow.

So you have a daily (or twice daily) point where you try and work out a fair price and use that as the bench mark for the queued trades. You can't use a historical price because you would be played, so it has to be the next price point. Similarly, you can't just use a given exchange at a known time because that too would be easily played. So you use a basket of prices including major exchanges and major OTC brokers and make that your price point. You (perhaps mistakenly) call it the "fix".

Is it open to collusion? Obviously. But if done regularly or too brazenly then the client won't play any more and you'll be out of business. On average it'll probably be fair enough because of the tension between those that want a high price and a low price. Clients using this kind of fund don't really expect the last pip of value, they want expose and ease while they get on with the rest of their lives.

The market would handsomely reward your improved system...





You mean we've never seen price collusions on closed exchanges like this before?  Roll Eyes

The way Barry's described the way it will work is a closed bidding.process amongst only banks. We hear report after report in the news about how banks have colluded numerous times in similar situations. 

Grafzep
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 92


View Profile
August 14, 2014, 11:14:15 AM
 #10587


well, i've been quite vocal about not liking the Bitcoin "fix" being planned by Second Market.  maybe routing around NY serves a purpose; avoid that debacle.

I'm not sure why you have such a problem with this. Is it perhaps all the negative connotations with the word 'fix'? Perhaps there is another word that could be used for a periodic agreed trading price.

There will be a whole group of people who want to hold and (very occasionally) buy/sell bitcoin. The ones that don't want to or can't use exchanges directly and don't want to or can't be bothered with storage. They will be happy to pay their 1% for someone to manage all that and even insure it already. Whatever you think of that, it will be a legitimate service.

But that service will not be able to offer in/out, buy/sell to it's customers at what we would call "market". It simply can't work in practice: the price would change between the client's order and it's execution and that would freak out the client. No one needs or can handle the grief of every order being disputed and/or delayed or the liabilities that might follow.

So you have a daily (or twice daily) point where you try and work out a fair price and use that as the bench mark for the queued trades. You can't use a historical price because you would be played, so it has to be the next price point. Similarly, you can't just use a given exchange at a known time because that too would be easily played. So you use a basket of prices including major exchanges and major OTC brokers and make that your price point. You (perhaps mistakenly) call it the "fix".

Is it open to collusion? Obviously. But if done regularly or too brazenly then the client won't play any more and you'll be out of business. On average it'll probably be fair enough because of the tension between those that want a high price and a low price. Clients using this kind of fund don't really expect the last pip of value, they want expose and ease while they get on with the rest of their lives.

The market would handsomely reward your improved system...





You mean we've never seen price collusions on closed exchanges like this before?  Roll Eyes

The way Barry's described the way it will work is a closed bidding.process amongst only banks. We hear report after report in the news about how banks have colluded numerous times in similar situations. 



You know that's not what I mean,  Roll Eyes, and nor is it what I say.

It looks to me like Baz is trying to put together a technical solution to the difficulty described in allowing retail to move in and out of the underlying asset. To make the collusion / bidding process manageable it of course has to be limited to vetted players. I'll take your word for it that he calls the bidders 'banks' but I've no doubt that any bringer of sufficient liquidity could get a seat.

Your apparent ungenerosity towards His Bazosity would carry more weight if you proposed a viable alternative. I happen to think that decentralisation and the market (several funds and fixes) will do much to keep the game straightish. There are very low barriers to entry in the buy-bitcoin-yourself market.

Anyway, he's gonna make us all rich n'est-ce pas?
Erdogan
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 714



View Profile
August 14, 2014, 11:30:41 AM
 #10588

sentiment feels pretty washed out.

It's been weeks and weeks of selling. When will it finally end?

I have to quote myself, because it was brilliantly written Grin:

It is mind work. It consist of stretching out on the sofa, occasionally go to the screen and enter to_da_moon, sometimes endure deep despair, some euforia. That is how we build the future of money. It deserves to be rewarded, and quickly.
wachtwoord
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484



View Profile WWW
August 14, 2014, 12:13:41 PM
 #10589

Every time I see this thread and then watch BTC tank 10%+ in 2 or 3 days makes me laugh.
I have over 30oz of gold coins and would buy 30 more before I buy 5 BTC.
I question how many people here own 1/10th of that amount of BTC


A lot more than you think. I believe someday you'll be quite sorry about your actions today.

ShameOnYou
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 238



View Profile
August 14, 2014, 12:41:46 PM
 #10590

It's 2014, who's still investing in gold?  Cheesy
Wekkel
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1386



View Profile
August 14, 2014, 02:23:41 PM
 #10591

It's 2014, who's still investing in gold?  Cheesy

Central banks are  Grin

Like this post? you can tip me (BTC) 1LGi2DMhectdFSkBid5srrnHk8WHgD3V1d or very WoW (Doge) D9p6FZQb1sKkq9hApy4tnjSduYfdnc74bb
wachtwoord
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1484



View Profile WWW
August 14, 2014, 02:32:56 PM
 #10592

It's 2014, who's still investing in gold?  Cheesy

Central banks are  Grin


He said investing, not speculating Wink

User705
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588



View Profile
August 14, 2014, 03:06:17 PM
 #10593

Every time I see this thread and then watch BTC tank 10%+ in 2 or 3 days makes me laugh.
I have over 30oz of gold coins and would buy 30 more before I buy 5 BTC.
I question how many people here own 1/10th of that amount of BTC
Gold has been up $15 the last weeks.  And good ol bitcoin, tanking again, no surprises there.
But oh yah, it will be $1500 again by January.  
Thats a good one.
Maybe more like $150 per BTC there you experts.
LOLZ
People here make me Huh
Nothing has changed about gold or BTC.  Buying BTC now likely entails an amount of short term risk.  Long term however it's hard to make a case for gold over crypto.  The current downtrend is simply the blow off from the last bubble coupled with the ASIC roll out.  BTC won't see an uptrend until we some some major ASIC manufactures go BK.
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
August 14, 2014, 04:20:47 PM
 #10594

here's your golden opportunity to buy Bitcoin.
marcus_of_augustus
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2086



View Profile
August 14, 2014, 05:13:56 PM
 #10595

here's your golden opportunity to buy Bitcoin.

It doesn't look like it to me, the market is now locked into a new long term downtrend ... by fair means or foul the banksters want cheap coinz ... and people seem to be willing to sell them ever lower. It appears to me to be some kind of algorithm that is designed to walk the market steadily lower, after each dump, new blocking sell walls spring up of a consistent size and interval above market to cap any bounce back rallies developing.

oda.krell
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1232



View Profile
August 14, 2014, 05:48:56 PM
 #10596

here's your golden opportunity to buy Bitcoin.

It doesn't look like it to me, the market is now locked into a new long term downtrend ... by fair means or foul the banksters want cheap coinz ... and people seem to be willing to sell them ever lower. It appears to me to be some kind of algorithm that is designed to walk the market steadily lower, after each dump, new blocking sell walls spring up of a consistent size and interval above market to cap any bounce back rallies developing.

[tinfoil time]

Sometimes I imagine I'm a billionaire / head of investment of a major bank / king of the Jewish space lizards.

I'm morally bankrupt, command fantastic wealth, and not so completely comfortable in my position that I cannot even see the potential of Bitcoin at least. And perhaps its danger to my position.

Here's what I most certainly wouldn't do: transition from fiat wealth to crypto wealth in the obvious way (by buying, on a public market). At least one perspective of what personal wealth is is that it is a 'ranking' among humans. Why would I take the risk of decreasing my own ranking by increasing that of early crypto adopters.

Here's what I would maybe do:

1) Try to destroy crypto

2) Try to get a decent piece of crypto without rocking the previous balance (see paragraph above).

How? Buy coins directly from miners, at market price, and at the same time, "invest" some of those newly bought coins to keep market price low.

The difference between 1) and 2) is whether you plan to end up with a net loss (but a long term success, because crypto is dead), or a net gain. The amount of coins sold publically vs. those held distinguishes 1) from 2).

Not an entirely new thought, I know. As others have pointed out, this can only work for so long before public interest overwhelms any such manipulations.

Perhaps. In fact, I think so too. But I am not entirely sure about. At the very least, the above scenario is on my list of crypto investment risk factors. Not at the top, perhaps, but it's on there.

[/tinfoil]

Not sure which Bitcoin wallet to use? I can highly recommend Electrum.
Electrum is an open-source lightweight client: user friendly, extremely fast, and one of the safest ways to store and use your bitcoins.
Executables are available on the Electrum homepage, so you can get a Bitcoin wallet up and running on your own computer in a few minutes.
NewLiberty
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1064


Gresham's Lawyer


View Profile WWW
August 14, 2014, 06:21:49 PM
 #10597

here's your golden opportunity to buy Bitcoin.
Its well under half an ounce of gold.
Take advantage.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
justusranvier
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400



View Profile WWW
August 14, 2014, 06:32:57 PM
 #10598

It doesn't look like it to me, the market is now locked into a new long term downtrend ... by fair means or foul the banksters want cheap coinz ... and people seem to be willing to sell them ever lower. It appears to me to be some kind of algorithm that is designed to walk the market steadily lower, after each dump, new blocking sell walls spring up of a consistent size and interval above market to cap any bounce back rallies developing.
Bitcoin needs a new Silk Road.

As long as price discovery takes place on the exchanges, instead of via supply and demand for commerce, the banksters can play their tricks very easily.

The only killer app for Bitcoin is to enable commerce that would otherwise impossible, and that means the black market.

Note that the black market doesn't imply violent or destructive - it can be as ordinary and benign as operating a lemonade stand without a permit from the city, or participating in a ride sharing service without a taxi license.

Bitcoin needs to give people access to things they can't have without it. A safe and pleasant drug buying experience was a great start, but it's time to think bigger now.
Carlton Banks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470



View Profile
August 14, 2014, 07:24:09 PM
 #10599

It doesn't look like it to me, the market is now locked into a new long term downtrend ... by fair means or foul the banksters want cheap coinz ... and people seem to be willing to sell them ever lower. It appears to me to be some kind of algorithm that is designed to walk the market steadily lower, after each dump, new blocking sell walls spring up of a consistent size and interval above market to cap any bounce back rallies developing.
Bitcoin needs a new Silk Road.

As long as price discovery takes place on the exchanges, instead of via supply and demand for commerce, the banksters can play their tricks very easily.

The only killer app for Bitcoin is to enable commerce that would otherwise impossible, and that means the black market.

Note that the black market doesn't imply violent or destructive - it can be as ordinary and benign as operating a lemonade stand without a permit from the city, or participating in a ride sharing service without a taxi license.

Bitcoin needs to give people access to things they can't have without it. A safe and pleasant drug buying experience was a great start, but it's time to think bigger now.

Agreed, I've been thinking about the same general principle. Black market price is believably genuine market value compared to captured institutions that are so vulnerable to coercion. It's truly possible that everywhere will be like living in Argentina before we see genuine price discovery.

And is there really ten's of thousands of coins available in those ask walls? Who's actually doing the selling, and are they just selling to themselves at 0% commision? We have no idea the level of price manipulation taking place at the exchanges. And there's no real way to find out; even if you were willing to spend millions eating the ask-side all the way up to $800, the depth would melt away whether it really exists or not. Reality and deciet produce identical outcomes.

Vires in numeris
justusranvier
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400



View Profile WWW
August 14, 2014, 07:32:20 PM
 #10600

And is there really ten's of thousands of coins available in those ask walls? Who's actually doing the selling, and are they just selling to themselves at 0% commision? We have no idea the level of price manipulation taking place at the exchanges. And there's no real way to find out; even if you were willing to spend millions eating the ask-side all the way up to $800, the depth would melt away whether it really exists or not. Reality and deciet produce identical outcomes.
Where are the coins being sold coming from? Do they even exist?

Are your bitcoins in your Coinbase or Circle really sitting idle in cold storage, or are they being used to short the market?

With the current design of exchanges and web wallets, it's impossible to know.
Pages: « 1 ... 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 [530] 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 ... 1560 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!