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Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1979500 times)
Melbustus
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August 16, 2014, 04:46:56 AM
 #10641


...<Buffet Excerpts>...


that was interesting.

sounds like Warren didn't like his dad.


I've read a number of Buffet bios, as well as much of his own writings. I believe he very much liked and respected his father. I think the divide is due to different generations and experiences. By the time Warren was an adult, he was lucky to start his investing career during one of the biggest bull markets, and rises in aggregate living standards, in human history. I think that very much formed his opinion of the world. He's an eternal American optimist. Which is indeed great in many ways. He (probably) correctly asserts that life will, over the long-haul, keep getting better for most people. And further, that Western-style business and innovation will be the driver of such in the upcoming century as it has been in the past couple.

And so he chooses to, again pretty much correctly, focus on investing in companies; in the underlying organizations that generate new efficiencies for humankind (ie, rising living standards).

So it's no surprise that he hates gold. Indeed, gold is a ridiculous asset to hold. Since the moment we humans have needed to transact quickly over distance, gold has ceased being a good money, and hasn't been all that rational to hold for its own merits. Various geo-political dynamics have been the drivers, but all that stuff is so far removed from the underlying purity of efficiency generation that Buffet invests upon that he (mostly correctly, at least in the longrun) views gold "investing" as stupid, archaic, and absurd.

The irony is that Warren is something of a hard-headed purist just like his father. Again, he just focuses on the core drivers of human advancement (ie, companies generating innovation and efficiencies), while his father focused on the same from a different angle (ie, ensuring a playing field of pure/true free-market capitalism). I think the fact that Warren has lived and invested exclusively in probably the richest country and richest period in human history has very much *allowed* him to focus on the firm-internals side without having to worry all that much about the overarching economic-system side. To his mind, at least empirically, the latter has been totally fine....why worry about it?

Sitenote: I remember reading that many of the House votes ended up being: All-Reps-Besides-HowardBuffet vs. Howard Buffet. Reminds me a better-spoken (and probably smarter) Ron Paul.

I personally agree almost entirely with Warren's investment approach; including his opinion of gold. I obviously diverge with him on bitcoin. As a technically-educated person, it's far easier for me to see bitcoin as the ideal-money-for-our-times that it is than it is for Warren to see it and really appreciate that fact. I also haven't lived and invested through the biggest bull-generation in human history, so some of my thinking is more like his father Howard's as well. Those facts combined lead to me to consider bitcoin a fantastic investment; the fact that it's better money means it'll naturally gain market share (transaction volume), and I also find it to be an important freedom-ensuring innovation that fits nicely into the decentralizing tendencies of modern times.

But make no mistake; once bitcoin obtains mature transaction volume and adoption, I will not hold it as an investment, choosing instead to invest as best I can like Warren Buffet.

Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
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Gresham's Lawyer


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August 16, 2014, 06:41:06 AM
 #10642

In the end those who argued against FDR and Wilson will be proven right. My fear is no one alive will notice or care. Bitcoin is our escape from this.


Andrew Dickson White was one of the most informed and reasoned,
http://president.cornell.edu/history_bio_white.cfm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Dickson_White

If you haven't read through "Fiat Money Inflation in France" which was presented 1892, and then again in 1912 it rings as true now as it did then.

It doesn't stop there.
Quote from: Alan Greenspan, 1966
"Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard."
Could be Bitcoin?

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
cypherdoc
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August 16, 2014, 10:26:20 PM
 #10643

Keep buying dips.
mmortal03
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August 17, 2014, 04:13:23 AM
 #10644


there are many who believe that markets "really" peaked on 3/24/00, the day the Nasdaq hit it's all time high and that every stimulation done since then has only served to postpone the inevitable long term decline.  you can see we haven't made it back there yet.



Here it is adjusted for inflation: http://www.macrotrends.net/1320/nasdaq-historical-chart-adjusted-for-inflation
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August 17, 2014, 12:59:23 PM
 #10645

Meanwhile, holdings in Belgium climbed $1.7 billion last month to $364.1 billion, the report showed.

Code words:  US. gubmint

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-15/u-s-investment-outflow-reaches-record-as-china-sells-treasuries.html
wachtwoord
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August 17, 2014, 01:00:24 PM
 #10646

Meanwhile, holdings in Belgium climbed $1.7 billion last month to $364.1 billion, the report showed.

Code words:  US. gubmint

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-15/u-s-investment-outflow-reaches-record-as-china-sells-treasuries.html

How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers? Wink

zeetubes
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August 17, 2014, 02:17:09 PM
 #10647

Meanwhile, holdings in Belgium climbed $1.7 billion last month to $364.1 billion, the report showed.

Code words:  US. gubmint

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-15/u-s-investment-outflow-reaches-record-as-china-sells-treasuries.html

How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers? Wink

Hopefully they'll auction off Ben Lawsky first.
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August 17, 2014, 02:19:02 PM
 #10648

Meanwhile, holdings in Belgium climbed $1.7 billion last month to $364.1 billion, the report showed.

Code words:  US. gubmint

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-15/u-s-investment-outflow-reaches-record-as-china-sells-treasuries.html

How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers? Wink

Hopefully they'll auction off Ben Lawsky first.

Are you interested in acquiring him?

_mr_e
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August 17, 2014, 02:40:26 PM
 #10649


Nxt did not fork and bter has gotten most of the nxt back. I am now more bullish then ever! With the release of the instantdex around the corner (near instant trading on the asset exchange and decentralized crypto to crypto, nxt is preparing to be a force to be reckoned with.
cypherdoc
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August 17, 2014, 02:41:19 PM
 #10650

Meanwhile, holdings in Belgium climbed $1.7 billion last month to $364.1 billion, the report showed.

Code words:  US. gubmint

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-15/u-s-investment-outflow-reaches-record-as-china-sells-treasuries.html

How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers? Wink

Hopefully they'll auction off Ben Lawsky first.

Are you interested in acquiring him?

He's already been acquired; by the banks.
HeliKopterBen
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August 17, 2014, 03:18:05 PM
 #10651


Nxt did not fork and bter has gotten most of the nxt back. I am now more bullish then ever! With the release of the instantdex around the corner (near instant trading on the asset exchange and decentralized crypto to crypto, nxt is preparing to be a force to be reckoned with.

I was quite impressed with nxt.  The developers released a version of the client that would reverse the stolen transaction only but the forgers did not accept the change.  This demonstrates the power of distributed consensus and hopefully the world takes notice.  Obvious threat to central banks is obvious.  Maybe POS has merit after all. 

Counterfeit:  made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive:  merriam-webster
_mr_e
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August 17, 2014, 05:16:06 PM
 #10652


Nxt did not fork and bter has gotten most of the nxt back. I am now more bullish then ever! With the release of the instantdex around the corner (near instant trading on the asset exchange and decentralized crypto to crypto, nxt is preparing to be a force to be reckoned with.

I was quite impressed with nxt.  The developers released a version of the client that would reverse the stolen transaction only but the forgers did not accept the change.  This demonstrates the power of distributed consensus and hopefully the world takes notice.  Obvious threat to central banks is obvious.  Maybe POS has merit after all. 

Looks like Vitalik and Ethereum agree with you: https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6990
Peter R
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August 17, 2014, 06:08:41 PM
 #10653


Nxt did not fork and bter has gotten most of the nxt back. I am now more bullish then ever! With the release of the instantdex around the corner (near instant trading on the asset exchange and decentralized crypto to crypto, nxt is preparing to be a force to be reckoned with.

I was quite impressed with nxt.  The developers released a version of the client that would reverse the stolen transaction only but the forgers did not accept the change.  This demonstrates the power of distributed consensus and hopefully the world takes notice.  Obvious threat to central banks is obvious.  Maybe POS has merit after all. 

The rollback discussion did the opposite to me.  It proved the PoS achieves consensus by popular opinion rather than by objective truth.  With PoW, you must expend resources to "vote" on your chain, so you pick the single best chain based on a mathematically-defined selection criteria (mining two competing chains would be a waste).  Each new block added to the chain decreases the chance of a re-org exponentially, and all the participants realize this, so deep re-orgs are out of the question. 

With PoS, there is no tether to the physical world.  Since there are no resources spent to "vote," stakers can vote on many different chains for very little cost.  Even today, it would be possible to roll back the 50M NXT theft as it costs nothing to change their blockchain.  PoS gives the economic majority the power to rewrite history.  Truth is defined by opinion.

There's a reason the first sentence of 1984 was used as the passphrase for the Nxt Genesis Account. 


Run Bitcoin Unlimited (www.bitcoinunlimited.info)
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August 17, 2014, 06:12:19 PM
 #10654

The rollback discussion did the opposite to me.  It proved the PoS achieves consensus by popular opinion rather than by objective truth.  With PoW, you must expend resources to "vote" on your chain, so you pick the single best chain based on a mathematically-defined selection criteria (mining two competing chains would be a waste).  Each new block added to the chain decreases the chance of a re-org exponentially, and all the participants realize this, so deep re-orgs are out of the question. 

With PoS, there is no tether to the physical world.  Since there are no resources spent to "vote," stakers can vote on many different chains for very little cost.  Even today, it would be possible to roll back the 50M NXT theft as it costs nothing to change their blockchain.  PoS gives the economic majority the power to rewrite history.  Truth is defined by opinion.

There's a reason the first sentence of 1984 was used as the passphrase for the Nxt Genesis Account.
https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf
kodtycoon
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August 17, 2014, 06:25:50 PM
 #10655

The rollback discussion did the opposite to me.  It proved the PoS achieves consensus by popular opinion rather than by objective truth.  With PoW, you must expend resources to "vote" on your chain, so you pick the single best chain based on a mathematically-defined selection criteria (mining two competing chains would be a waste).  Each new block added to the chain decreases the chance of a re-org exponentially, and all the participants realize this, so deep re-orgs are out of the question.  

With PoS, there is no tether to the physical world.  Since there are no resources spent to "vote," stakers can vote on many different chains for very little cost.  Even today, it would be possible to roll back the 50M NXT theft as it costs nothing to change their blockchain.  PoS gives the economic majority the power to rewrite history.  Truth is defined by opinion.

There's a reason the first sentence of 1984 was used as the passphrase for the Nxt Genesis Account.
https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf

all the while nxt and proof of stake is alive and well, growing fast and stealing ethereums customers(1) while they cant decide what consensus mechanism to use Roll Eyes

(1): last block of text under "nxt gold"


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August 17, 2014, 06:34:19 PM
 #10656

nxt and proof of stake is alive and well, growing fast
So is the Federal Reserve's balance sheet.

WTF does that have to do with whether or not PoS is capable of achieving distributed consensus?
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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August 17, 2014, 06:34:21 PM
 #10657

To rollback the chain they are first going to have to own alot of coins and be big investors in their total numbers and consensus.     Large amounts of capital invested in a product is just a traditional source of power in a normal capitalist system.   Right now in fiat we have democracy and corruption of capital by politics but a plain old currency system should revolve around respect for those with most to lose from its demise.   Is POS flawed by allowing that Im not sure, the people who use and hold nxt decided it would be a negative, last I read

Quote
How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers?
As soon as the bonds give any rights they can do that.   All they got is a promise.    They can shut down the government deficit maybe, force raise interest rates and cause alot of fuss but who wants to spend billions making enemies with no profit.  
I'd buy some gold with those bonds asap, likely its a proxy for elements of the EU

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August 17, 2014, 06:41:44 PM
 #10658

To rollback the chain they are first going to have to own alot of coins and be big investors in their total numbers and consensus.     Large amounts of capital invested in a product is just a traditional source of power in a normal capitalist system.   Right now in fiat we have democracy and corruption of capital by politics but a plain old currency system should revolve around respect for those with most to lose from its demise.   Is POS flawed by allowing that Im not sure, the people who use and hold nxt decided it would be a negative, last I read

Quote
How long until Belgium owns the US? The they can start auctioning off cities. New York people. Any takers?
As soon as the bonds give any rights they can do that.   All they got is a promise.    They can shut down the government deficit maybe, force raise interest rates and cause alot of fuss but who wants to spend billions making enemies with no profit.  
I'd buy some gold with those bonds asap, likely its a proxy for elements of the EU

A USTbond <=> BTC exchange could open the floodgates ... i.e. repo  market settled in bitcoin.

kodtycoon
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August 17, 2014, 06:45:31 PM
 #10659

nxt and proof of stake is alive and well, growing fast
So is the Federal Reserve's balance sheet.

WTF does that have to do with whether or not PoS is capable of achieving distributed consensus?

it has to do with the fact that regardless of your opinion on whether it can achieve consensus, it is still going full steam ahead, building new technology that PoW systems could only dream of.

show me a paper with mathematical proof that what you claim is the truth. with all the smart arses going around claiming such untrusths that one of the smarter arses would have written up a mathmatical paper to prove this hypothesis.. but no...

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August 17, 2014, 06:55:06 PM
 #10660

it has to do with the fact that regardless of your opinion on whether it can achieve consensus
I issued no opinion whatsoever about whether or not PoS can achieve consensus.
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