Bitcoin Forum
August 17, 2017, 09:56:05 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.14.2  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Poll
Question: Will you support Gavin's new block size limit hard fork of 8MB by January 1, 2016 then doubling every 2 years?
1.  yes
2.  no

Pages: « 1 ... 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 [532] 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 ... 1558 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1951231 times)
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
August 15, 2014, 06:41:47 PM
 #10621

it'll certainly be interesting to see how important Bter is to NXT.  market is saying "pretty important".  or, it's saying a big selloff of the NXT coins is coming:

1502963765
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1502963765

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1502963765
Reply with quote  #2

1502963765
Report to moderator
1502963765
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1502963765

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1502963765
Reply with quote  #2

1502963765
Report to moderator
1502963765
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1502963765

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1502963765
Reply with quote  #2

1502963765
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1502963765
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1502963765

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1502963765
Reply with quote  #2

1502963765
Report to moderator
1502963765
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1502963765

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1502963765
Reply with quote  #2

1502963765
Report to moderator
Zarathustra
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980



View Profile
August 15, 2014, 06:48:34 PM
 #10622

Another millennium peak:

http://advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/Durable-Goods-Real-Per-Capita.php


cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
August 15, 2014, 07:19:55 PM
 #10623

mofo junk bonds aren't going to make it back to the top:

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
August 15, 2014, 07:51:55 PM
 #10624

here's an example of a dead-ass housing stock that deserved to go BK back in 2008 but instead was bailed out by you and me b/c "it would've been too risky to the financial system" to have done so.  no recovery here:

cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
August 15, 2014, 08:03:03 PM
 #10625

this sounds like bubble mentality:

“Some strategists even view bank debt as a way to protect against the impact of any rise in benchmark interest rates. Many investors are worried that any rate increase by the Federal Reserve will push bond prices down broadly. But higher benchmark interest rates would likely boost banks’ profits, Barclays analysts said in a research note last month.“

http://www.forexlive.com/blog/2014/08/14/banks-financial-companies-issuing-bonds-record-pace-15-august-2014/
Wekkel
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1568



View Profile
August 15, 2014, 08:49:12 PM
 #10626

this sounds like bubble mentality:


The problem with bubbles is that they force one to decide whether to look like an idiot before the peak, or an idiot after the peak. What is your choice?

Like this post? you can tip me (BTC) 18j7UBNfhWWfvwGwrtzWfUrp1v6RDerFkY or (XEM) NBXGH5-MXQPNL-T5TA3R-QCQYUX-3FIEXC-LGIKGT-H7XJ
wachtwoord
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1624


View Profile
August 15, 2014, 08:50:55 PM
 #10627

this sounds like bubble mentality:


The problem with bubbles is that they force one to decide whether to look like an idiot before the peak, or an idiot after the peak. What is your choice?


Idiot before the peak any day of the week.
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
August 15, 2014, 09:00:09 PM
 #10628

the Fed is delusional.  a candy bar, when i was a kid, was $0.05 and an avg house was $24000.  we all know how the CPI has been manipulated into oblivion thru hedonics.


Unfortunately, a gold standard is not a guarantee of price stability. It is simply a promise made “out of thin air” to keep the supply of money anchored to the supply of gold. To consider how tenuous such a promise can be, consider the following example. On April 5, 1933, President Franklin D. Roosevelt ordered all gold coins and certificates of denominations in excess of $100 turned in for other money by May 1 at a set price of $20.67 per ounce. Two months later, a joint resolution of Congress abrogated the gold clauses in many public and private obligations that required the debtor to repay the creditor in gold dollars of the same weight and fineness as those borrowed. In 1934, the government price of gold was increased to $35 per ounce, effectively increasing the dollar value of gold on the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet by almost 70 percent. This action allowed the Federal Reserve to increase the money supply by a corresponding amount and, subsequently, led to significant price inflation.

This historical example demonstrates that the gold standard is no guarantee of price stability. Moreover, the fact that price inflation in the U.S. has remained low and stable over the past 30 years demonstrates that the gold standard is not necessary for price stability. Price stability evidently depends less on whether money is “created out of thin air” and more on the credibility of the monetary authority to manage the economy’s money supply in a responsible manner.


http://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/the-gold-standard-and-price-inflation/
kodtycoon
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 686



View Profile
August 15, 2014, 09:05:21 PM
 #10629

it'll certainly be interesting to see how important Bter is to NXT.  market is saying "pretty important".  or, it's saying a big selloff of the NXT coins is coming:



people are running to nem and nxttycoin (assets on the asset exchange) for safety..

nem is lookin like it will be nxts only major competitor (or successor).



KICKICO██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
|██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
██  ██  █
NewLiberty
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1162


Gresham's Lawyer


View Profile WWW
August 15, 2014, 09:07:52 PM
 #10630

It takes chutzpah.
The Fed says that the Gold standard doesn't work because it can be ended by the politicians at the behest of the Fed.

They can be expected to try to use the same reasoning with bitcoin... but only if they first make it the bitcoin standard?  Somehow I think that simply asking for it all by force of law probably won't work again the same way Roosevelt took the gold.

FREE MONEY1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR
Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1Free of Government
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
August 15, 2014, 09:13:07 PM
 #10631

It takes chutzpah.
The Fed says that the Gold standard doesn't work because it can be ended by the politicians at the behest of the Fed.

They can be expected to try to use the same reasoning with bitcoin... but only if they first make it the bitcoin standard?  Somehow I think that simply asking for it all by force of law probably won't work again the same way Roosevelt took the gold.

Yeah,  you picked on that shit too? Amazing.   
justusranvier
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1400



View Profile WWW
August 15, 2014, 11:15:10 PM
 #10632

Somehow I think that simply asking for it all by force of law probably won't work again the same way Roosevelt took the gold.
They're going to try very hard to persuade people to keep their coins in web wallets.

You can buy lots of UX and advertising with fiat currency right now.
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
August 15, 2014, 11:27:55 PM
 #10633

this is really a brilliantly crafted document from the Mercatus Center:

In contrast, the proposed requirement to identify all parties to a transaction might lead to the department having
less
visibility of transactions on the Bitcoin network or any other open cryptocurrency network. This is because,
as noted above, the consequence of such a requirement will likely be that Virtual Currency firms will be forced
to operate closed systems on top of the Bitcoin network. While the department may have good visibility into the
transactions conducted inside these closed networks, it will give up visibility into the broader open network.
Again, a determined actor will always be able to avoid BitLicensed intermediaries and connect directly to the
network in a peer-to-peer fashion. By segregating the BitLicensed businesses from the wider network, there will
be no contact between identified customers and the wider network, and the department will lose visibility into
that wider network.


http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/BritoDourado-NY-Virtual-Currency-comment-081414.pdf
Pruden
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 480

Spanish Bitcoin trader


View Profile
August 15, 2014, 11:46:14 PM
 #10634

there are many who believe that markets "really" peaked on 3/24/00, the day the Nasdaq hit it's all time high and that every stimulation done since then has only served to postpone the inevitable long term decline.  you can see we haven't made it back there yet.

An investment in Treasury bills, absolutely liquid and short-term, on 01/01/2000 would have been ahead of stocks one year ago. Now it is slightly lagging behind (http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/datafile/histretSP.html).

I think we are indeed in a secular bear market that is about to end according to the 16-20 years trough-to-peak, then peak-to-trough cycle: 1949-1967-1982-2000-2016?. That is, unless stocks have reached a permanently high plateau (and 15 years is already exceedingly permanent, save for a few months between 2008 and 2009).
rocks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1153


View Profile
August 15, 2014, 11:52:22 PM
 #10635

It takes chutzpah.
The Fed says that the Gold standard doesn't work because it can be ended by the politicians at the behest of the Fed.

They can be expected to try to use the same reasoning with bitcoin... but only if they first make it the bitcoin standard?  Somehow I think that simply asking for it all by force of law probably won't work again the same way Roosevelt took the gold.

Yeah,  you picked on that shit too? Amazing.   

ZH recently had an interesting article on Warren Buffet's father's support for the gold standard. It's worth a read.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-14/70-years-later-warren-buffetts-dad-proved-right-about-everything

What I find interesting is all of the reasons he uses to support gold can just as easily be applied to bitcoin today. From this view bitcoin simply becomes a better implementation of the gold standard, largely because it is less manipulable.

Some extracts from the article and Buffet's letter:

Quote
Unlike his son who has lauded the Federal Reserve and in particular its former chairman Ben Bernanke, along with others who intervened during and after the financial crisis of 2008, Howard Buffett was an outspoken proponent of laissez-faire economics and sound money. In a 1948 article he wrote:

Quote from: WarrenBuffetsDad
Is there a connection between Human Freedom and A Gold Redeemable Money? At first glance it would seem that money belongs to the world of economics and human freedom to the political sphere.
 
But when you recall that one of the first moves by Lenin, Mussolini and Hitler was to outlaw individual ownership of gold, you begin to sense that there may be some connection between money, redeemable in gold, and the rare prize known as human liberty.
 
Also, when you find that Lenin declared and demonstrated that a sure way to overturn the existing social order and bring about communism was by printing press paper money, then again you are impressed with the possibility of a relationship between a gold-backed money and human freedom…
 
The subject of a Hitler or a Stalin is a serf by the mere fact that his money can be called in and depreciated at the whim of his rulers…
 
Under such conditions [of depreciating currency] the individual citizen is deprived of freedom of movement. He is prevented from laying away purchasing power for the future. He becomes dependent upon the goodwill of the politicians for his daily bread. Unless he lives on land that will sustain him, freedom for him does not exist…

Buffett argues that the lack of a gold standard meant that Congress was unrestrained in spending money to cater to various interest groups, stating “With no bad immediate consequence it becomes expedient to accede to a spending demand. The Treasury is seemingly inexhaustible. Besides the unorganized taxpayers back home may not notice this particular expenditure — and so it goes.” Further:

Quote from: WarrenBuffetsDad
Far away from Congress is the real forgotten man, the taxpayer who foots the bill. He is in a different spot from the tax-eater or the business that makes millions from spending schemes. He cannot afford to spend his time trying to oppose Federal expenditures. He has to earn his own living and carry the burden of taxes as well.
 
But for most beneficiaries a Federal paycheck soon becomes vital in his life. He usually will spend his full energies if necessary to hang onto this income.
 
The taxpayer is completely outmatched in such an unequal contest. Always heretofore he possessed an equalizer. If government finances weren’t run according to his idea of soundness he had an individual right to protect himself by obtaining gold.
 
With a restoration of the gold standard, Congress would have to again resist handouts. That would work this way. If Congress seemed receptive to reckless spending schemes, depositors’ demands over the country for gold would soon become serious. That alarm in turn would quickly be reflected in the halls of Congress. The legislators would learn from the banks back home and from the Treasury officials that confidence in the Treasury was endangered.
 
Congress would be forced to confront spending demands with firmness. The gold standard acted as a silent watchdog to prevent unlimited public spending.

Buffett ends his column with this warning:

Quote from: WarrenBuffetsDad

Because of our economic strength the paper money disease here may take many years to run its course.
 
But we can be approaching the critical stage. When that day arrives, our political rulers will probably find that foreign war and ruthless regimentation is the cunning alternative to domestic strife. That was the way out for the paper-money economy of Hitler and others. In these remarks I have only touched the high points of this problem. I hope that I have given you enough information to challenge you to make a serious study of it.
 
I warn you that politicians of both parties will oppose the restoration of gold, although they may outwardly seemingly favor it. Also those elements here and abroad who are getting rich from the continued American inflation will oppose a return to sound money. You must be prepared to meet their opposition intelligently and vigorously. They have had 15 years of unbroken victory.
 
But, unless you are willing to surrender your children and your country to galloping inflation, war and slavery, then this cause demands your support. For if human liberty is to survive in America, we must win the battle to restore honest money.
 
There is no more important challenge facing us than this issue — the restoration of your freedom to secure gold in exchange for the fruits of your labors.

In the end those who argued against FDR and Wilson will be proven right. My fear is no one alive will notice or care. Bitcoin is our escape from this.
STT
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456


¯\_(ツ)_/¯


View Profile WWW
August 15, 2014, 11:56:26 PM
 #10636

there are many who believe that markets "really" peaked on 3/24/00, the day the Nasdaq hit it's all time high and that every stimulation done since then has only served to postpone the inevitable long term decline.  you can see we haven't made it back there yet.

We can swing way past the highs of 2000 on any index.
   The FED can ensure that and every statistic reads positive however they cannot account for a declining dollar index at the same time so if you combine dollar value & nasdaq nominal value it is quite unlikely we will surpass 2000 for many years.  
 I believe DXY has so far fallen from 120 to 80 and it seems intentional that dollars will continue to fall in value to underline the export capability of USA (while restricting certain exports like oil to favour nationals over foreign users of dollars)
cypherdoc
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1764



View Profile
August 16, 2014, 12:07:04 AM
 #10637

It takes chutzpah.
The Fed says that the Gold standard doesn't work because it can be ended by the politicians at the behest of the Fed.

They can be expected to try to use the same reasoning with bitcoin... but only if they first make it the bitcoin standard?  Somehow I think that simply asking for it all by force of law probably won't work again the same way Roosevelt took the gold.

Yeah,  you picked on that shit too? Amazing.   

ZH recently had an interesting article on Warren Buffet's father's support for the gold standard. It's worth a read.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-14/70-years-later-warren-buffetts-dad-proved-right-about-everything

What I find interesting is all of the reasons he uses to support gold can just as easily be applied to bitcoin today. From this view bitcoin simply becomes a better implementation of the gold standard, largely because it is less manipulable.

Some extracts from the article and Buffet's letter:

Quote
Unlike his son who has lauded the Federal Reserve and in particular its former chairman Ben Bernanke, along with others who intervened during and after the financial crisis of 2008, Howard Buffett was an outspoken proponent of laissez-faire economics and sound money. In a 1948 article he wrote:

Quote from: WarrenBuffetsDad
Is there a connection between Human Freedom and A Gold Redeemable Money? At first glance it would seem that money belongs to the world of economics and human freedom to the political sphere.
 
But when you recall that one of the first moves by Lenin, Mussolini and Hitler was to outlaw individual ownership of gold, you begin to sense that there may be some connection between money, redeemable in gold, and the rare prize known as human liberty.
 
Also, when you find that Lenin declared and demonstrated that a sure way to overturn the existing social order and bring about communism was by printing press paper money, then again you are impressed with the possibility of a relationship between a gold-backed money and human freedom…
 
The subject of a Hitler or a Stalin is a serf by the mere fact that his money can be called in and depreciated at the whim of his rulers…
 
Under such conditions [of depreciating currency] the individual citizen is deprived of freedom of movement. He is prevented from laying away purchasing power for the future. He becomes dependent upon the goodwill of the politicians for his daily bread. Unless he lives on land that will sustain him, freedom for him does not exist…

Buffett argues that the lack of a gold standard meant that Congress was unrestrained in spending money to cater to various interest groups, stating “With no bad immediate consequence it becomes expedient to accede to a spending demand. The Treasury is seemingly inexhaustible. Besides the unorganized taxpayers back home may not notice this particular expenditure — and so it goes.” Further:

Quote from: WarrenBuffetsDad
Far away from Congress is the real forgotten man, the taxpayer who foots the bill. He is in a different spot from the tax-eater or the business that makes millions from spending schemes. He cannot afford to spend his time trying to oppose Federal expenditures. He has to earn his own living and carry the burden of taxes as well.
 
But for most beneficiaries a Federal paycheck soon becomes vital in his life. He usually will spend his full energies if necessary to hang onto this income.
 
The taxpayer is completely outmatched in such an unequal contest. Always heretofore he possessed an equalizer. If government finances weren’t run according to his idea of soundness he had an individual right to protect himself by obtaining gold.
 
With a restoration of the gold standard, Congress would have to again resist handouts. That would work this way. If Congress seemed receptive to reckless spending schemes, depositors’ demands over the country for gold would soon become serious. That alarm in turn would quickly be reflected in the halls of Congress. The legislators would learn from the banks back home and from the Treasury officials that confidence in the Treasury was endangered.
 
Congress would be forced to confront spending demands with firmness. The gold standard acted as a silent watchdog to prevent unlimited public spending.

Buffett ends his column with this warning:

Quote from: WarrenBuffetsDad

Because of our economic strength the paper money disease here may take many years to run its course.
 
But we can be approaching the critical stage. When that day arrives, our political rulers will probably find that foreign war and ruthless regimentation is the cunning alternative to domestic strife. That was the way out for the paper-money economy of Hitler and others. In these remarks I have only touched the high points of this problem. I hope that I have given you enough information to challenge you to make a serious study of it.
 
I warn you that politicians of both parties will oppose the restoration of gold, although they may outwardly seemingly favor it. Also those elements here and abroad who are getting rich from the continued American inflation will oppose a return to sound money. You must be prepared to meet their opposition intelligently and vigorously. They have had 15 years of unbroken victory.
 
But, unless you are willing to surrender your children and your country to galloping inflation, war and slavery, then this cause demands your support. For if human liberty is to survive in America, we must win the battle to restore honest money.
 
There is no more important challenge facing us than this issue — the restoration of your freedom to secure gold in exchange for the fruits of your labors.

In the end those who argued against FDR and Wilson will be proven right. My fear is no one alive will notice or care. Bitcoin is our escape from this.


that was interesting.

sounds like Warren didn't like his dad.
STT
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456


¯\_(ツ)_/¯


View Profile WWW
August 16, 2014, 01:25:42 AM
 #10638

You would have to listen very carefully and he would never say outright but I believe WB agrees with his dad in principal however for the sake of popularity and convenience he plays along with the current administration.  It certainly would be alot more trouble near term to realise the mistakes made over the last 40 years based on this endless government spending, even a simple default would turn the world upside down.  I doubt when Im 83 I will want the world to upset so much, cant blame WB but I think he knows the above full well.  He does say bonds or cash are awful afaik
rocks
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1153


View Profile
August 16, 2014, 01:41:46 AM
 #10639

You would have to listen very carefully and he would never say outright but I believe WB agrees with his dad in principal however for the sake of popularity and convenience he plays along with the current administration.  It certainly would be alot more trouble near term to realise the mistakes made over the last 40 years based on this endless government spending, even a simple default would turn the world upside down.  I doubt when Im 83 I will want the world to upset so much, cant blame WB but I think he knows the above full well.  He does say bonds or cash are awful afaik

That may be the case, but Warren has consistently stated over and over again that he hates gold and thinks anyone who holds it is crazy. One of his most commonly cited statements on why he is against gold is the following:

Quote from: WarrenBuffett
I will say this about gold. If you took all the gold in the world, it would roughly make a cube 67 feet on a side…Now for that same cube of gold, it would be worth at today’s market prices about $7 trillion dollars – that’s probably about a third of the value of all the stocks in the United States…For $7 trillion dollars…you could have all the farmland in the United States, you could have about 7Exxon Mobils, and you could have a trillion dollars of walking-around money…And if you offered me the choice of looking at some 67 foot cube of gold and looking at it all day, and you know me touching it and fondling it occasionally…Call me crazy, but I’ll take the farmland and the Exxon Mobils.
http://www.gurufocus.com/news/239678/gold-vs-farmland-vs-exxon-mobil--buffett-makes-ense-of-it-all

You could interpret this to be more of a statement that it is better to invest your savings, than to simply hold onto money. But this only makes sense when money offers zero interest rate (gold today has a negative interest rate since you have to pay to store it). However under the gold standard lending gold offered a reasonable and attractive yield, and during many period it made more sense to hold onto gold than to invest into a bubble.

Part if the problem for bitcoin is most people have been taught to see bitcoin or any sound money system in the same light.
STT
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1456


¯\_(ツ)_/¯


View Profile WWW
August 16, 2014, 02:01:46 AM
 #10640

Savings placed in a bank are not cash, they are an investment at that point.    In normal circumstance, you are relying on that bank as a company to return a positive on their business and to maintain a solid model that allows them to give your cash back.   Really this is investment risk and return.
   In modern times we of course think its impossible to lose and the money is guaranteed to come back to us so it is savings not investment but really its closer to the second and government interference in which banks fail does not qualify it differently

His piece about gold vs farmland is correct.   Gold is not an investment but the laws of physics wont be changing so the gold is not a risk as such though insurance on its theft is a cost.   Gold is savings or cash if you like but the farmland is investment and is normal risk vs return.   Gold has a yield of zero and its not supposed to be a profit but it is savings of your labour, your excess wealth in solid form so I really back that as the original meaning of the word; to save wages or saved labour paid, saved capital whatever.

The really confusing thing cash notes are not really cash.  A dollar bill is a zero coupon bond, its a promissory note and it has no value, its returns are a risk reliant on various departments of government.  We are supposed to see it as cash, its modern alchemy because it is not but thats how we use it.  

I still back WB as someone to learn from, you may have to sieve out all the dross he has taken on from politics but really I dont see him as a political player.  He does say he wants to be liked or he values influence, etc


I dont think he does things that differently but he does speak differently or not plainly on how bad gov is, for money, etc

Quote
lending gold offered a reasonable and attractive yield, and during many period it made more sense to hold onto gold than to invest into a bubble.

Thats fair enough, we simulate that with interest rates and in the eighties we had to raise them to 20% to get people to think twice about dollars.  Plus other changes like the Chinese exporting perhaps helped.   You are right, its a brake on the bubbles or ponzis that appear indirectly from easy fed policy, they arent actually productive but we have no brakes now as gov cant afford higher rates hence gold is really the best idea
Pages: « 1 ... 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 [532] 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 ... 1558 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!