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Author Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.  (Read 1957697 times)
_mr_e
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August 18, 2014, 05:18:24 PM
 #10761

You might be interested to read the discussion Vitalik came over and had with the nxt developers where he comes to the conclusion that nxt does things much better then it looks on the surface

https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/bounty-for-successful-nothing-at-stake-attack/msg60114/#msg60114

To quote vbuterin

"So basically you use transactions-as-proof-of-stake. That sounds reasonable; it's as good as I can think of at this point, although it has the moderately-serious-but-not-fatal flaws that I described in my On Stake article. I eagerly await a full whitepaper description and open source code of your complete protocol so both myself and more formal academics can properly whack at the specifics."



Also Nxt cannot be forked back more then 720 blocks so that alone would thwart the attack mentioned in your paper. Not to mention the economic clustering feature and transparent forging that's in development...

Just like with bitcoin, I'd thought you be more aware that systems evolve. Just looking at their surface and taking them at face value is incredibly short sighted.



like i've said before, Vitalik's understanding of "fairness" doesn't impress me.  so how does he apply his view of the world into Ethereum and now NXT?  probably the same way.

you talk like NXT is a guaranteed success and everyone who disagrees with you is shortsighted.  you may be right; but again you may be wrong.

For sure, I could be wrong, but you seem to talk like Nxt is completely doomed from the start and has no features that people may find useful or push crypto forward. Majority of my money is still in bitcoin. But ignoring the advantages of these system IS short sighted... if not Nxt then something else! I for one will continue to hedge my bets and keep looking for the most awesome technology I can find.
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justusranvier
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August 18, 2014, 05:23:25 PM
 #10762

But ignoring the advantages of these system IS short sighted... if not Nxt then something else! I for one will continue to hedge my bets and keep looking for the most awesome technology I can find.
Investing in their appcoin is short sighted.

Where they make genuine improvements, copy those improvements and add them to Bitcoin.

Win-win for everybody, except the people who invest in the appcoins.
dompsairs
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August 18, 2014, 05:24:05 PM
 #10763

I sold some of my old gold bracelets while im hodling BtC even after the low price.  Cool
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August 18, 2014, 05:28:44 PM
 #10764

But ignoring the advantages of these system IS short sighted... if not Nxt then something else! I for one will continue to hedge my bets and keep looking for the most awesome technology I can find.
Investing in their appcoin is short sighted.

Where they make genuine improvements, copy those improvements and add them to Bitcoin.

Win-win for everybody, except the people who invest in the appcoins.

You've clearly missed the point. Bitcoin was not designed to be an extensible platform, it was designed to be a currency. The two can help each other.
justusranvier
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August 18, 2014, 05:32:28 PM
 #10765

You've clearly missed the point. Bitcoin was not designed to be an extensible platform, it was designed to be a currency. The two can help each other.
You're also missing the point. Incorporating new features into the Bitcoin ecosystem does not require changes to the Bitcoin protocol.

Anything NXT can do, Open-Transactions can do using Bitcoin (or any other curency) as its basis, without requiring any kind of special token.

We know they are the project that is actually trying to solve real problems instead of P&D their appcoin, because they don't have an appcoin.

Also the fact that so many people flock to the appcoin P&D platforms instead of OT shows how much they are interested in solving real problem.
cypherdoc
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August 18, 2014, 05:32:49 PM
 #10766

if alts were not in fact a distraction and were not contributing to a zero sum game, then all cryptocurrencies should be falling in lock step.

the fact that alts are falling disproportionately more indicates to me, at least, that alts are in fact a distraction and subtracting from Bitcoin in a zero sum game and are in the process of being flushed.
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August 18, 2014, 05:34:59 PM
 #10767

You've clearly missed the point. Bitcoin was not designed to be an extensible platform, it was designed to be a currency. The two can help each other.
You're also missing the point. Incorporating new features into the Bitcoin ecosystem does not require changes to the Bitcoin protocol.

Anything NXT can do, Open-Transactions can do using Bitcoin (or any other curency) as its basis, without requiring any kind of special token.

We know they are the project that is actually trying to solve real problems instead of P&D their appcoin, because they don't have an appcoin.

Also the fact that so many people flock to the appcoin P&D platforms instead of OT shows how much they are interested in solving real problem.

I've been waiting for and was very excited for Open Transaction too... But where the hell is it? It's been years.
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August 18, 2014, 05:50:40 PM
 #10768

Quote
I've been waiting for and was very excited for Open Transaction too... But where the hell is it? It's been years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJKWDC4q5rA
cypherdoc
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August 18, 2014, 05:57:36 PM
 #10769

do students like being entrapped as debt slaves?

justusranvier
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August 18, 2014, 06:05:49 PM
 #10770

do students like being entrapped as debt slaves?
Student loans are the escape route that looks like a trap.

I'm in the middle of a blog post describing exactly how enterprising young people with access to them can use them in that exact manner.
cypherdoc
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August 18, 2014, 06:12:50 PM
 #10771

do students like being entrapped as debt slaves?
Student loans are the escape route that looks like a trap.

I'm in the middle of a blog post describing exactly how enterprising young people with access to them can use them in that exact manner.

must involve some sort of default.
justusranvier
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August 18, 2014, 06:18:55 PM
 #10772

must involve some sort of default.
The great trap of humanity is to accept that the ruled should obey completely opposite standards compared to the rulers. It is the source of all evil and most suffering in the world, and it's everywhere.

If unlimited borrowing with no thought of repayment followed by strategic default is acceptable behaviour for governments, and multinational corporations, and central banks, then it's acceptable behaviour for individuals too.

If any of these agencies or their cronies want to contest the ethical nature of such a course, they can lead by example or GTFO.
_mr_e
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August 18, 2014, 06:24:04 PM
 #10773

Quote
I've been waiting for and was very excited for Open Transaction too... But where the hell is it? It's been years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJKWDC4q5rA

Very exciting. Looking forward to the eventual release of a more user friendly client. I desperately want voting pools to take over. Nxt multigateway just happens to have the first deployed and in use version of one.
cypherdoc
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August 18, 2014, 06:25:21 PM
 #10774

must involve some sort of default.
The great trap of humanity is to accept that the ruled should obey completely opposite standards compared to the rulers. It is the source of all evil and most suffering in the world, and it's everywhere.

If unlimited borrowing with no thought of repayment followed by strategic default is acceptable behaviour for governments, and multinational corporations, and central banks, then it's acceptable behaviour for individuals too.

If any of these agencies or their cronies want to contest the ethical nature of such a course, they can lead by example or GTFO.

well, you know what they say...you borrow small, the bank owns you.  you borrow big, you own the bank.
vuduchyld
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August 18, 2014, 06:33:00 PM
 #10775

if alts were not in fact a distraction and were not contributing to a zero sum game, then all cryptocurrencies should be falling in lock step.

the fact that alts are falling disproportionately more indicates to me, at least, that alts are in fact a distraction and subtracting from Bitcoin in a zero sum game and are in the process of being flushed.

It's not easy to measure that fact without any accepted indexes, but using the indexes I've been calculating, over the last two weeks, alts are down 37-40%, whereas BTC is down about 20% (varies, depending on times of the day, but that's pretty close).

I'm not sure alts are going to be flushed.  In the early twentieth century, there were, believe it or not, more than 1000 automobile manufacturers in the US.  Of course, that was narrowed down to The Big Three with really just a couple of other important players over a 70-80 year period.  My guess is that we'll see a similar winnowing down of alts.

Of course, with auto manufacturing, you've got immense overhead costs.  You've got assets backing up debt.  If a company isn't cutting it, liquidation is imminent.  With cryptos, you can imagine these useless pieces of code floating around and still being listed on exchanges.  There isn't quite as much urgency for a resolution.  So it may NOT be the case that, say, Poloniex is going to end up trading only 5-7 alts. 

But I'd strongly suspect that we will work towards an equilibrium where only a handful of alts matter, and it will be obvious which ones. 
justusranvier
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August 18, 2014, 06:41:56 PM
 #10776

well, you know what they say...you borrow small, the bank owns you.  you borrow big, you own the bank.

Melbustus
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August 18, 2014, 07:03:26 PM
 #10777

...

Looks like cheap coins to me!

I hope it goes lower...nom nom nom.  Grin Grin Grin


Hope you're hungry:


Bitcoin is the first monetary system to credibly offer perfect information to all economic participants.
cypherdoc
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August 18, 2014, 07:09:12 PM
 #10778

...

Looks like cheap coins to me!

I hope it goes lower...nom nom nom.  Grin Grin Grin


Hope you're hungry:



huh?  there's not much there to eat...
wachtwoord
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August 18, 2014, 07:17:46 PM
 #10779

...

Looks like cheap coins to me!

I hope it goes lower...nom nom nom.  Grin Grin Grin


Hope you're hungry:



huh?  there's not much there to eat...

$113M worth is not much?
smoothie
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LEALANA Monero Physical Silver Coins


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August 18, 2014, 07:47:12 PM
 #10780

...

Looks like cheap coins to me!

I hope it goes lower...nom nom nom.  Grin Grin Grin


Hope you're hungry:



huh?  there's not much there to eat...

$113M worth is not much?

The perspective is skewed as we are comparing Bitcoin which is over 5 years old to Litecoin which is less than 3 years old. Uneven metric for comparison.

And yes I'm hungry....I smell blood.   Cheesy

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