Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP.

[miscreanity]

irrespective of what i think, you don't see a problem with your miners stocks and silver holdings being cut in half since the top?  or gold being down 18%?  how about GPL down 13% in such a short time period?

If an asset is at a discount no matter the price to this point, it doesn't matter what the entry point is. The danger in fleeing now is that the systemic stresses are so great that there's no real way to determine when a break will occur, but there's no doubt that it will happen violently. Because of that, it might not be possible to get in again at any price, so short-term trading for a few percent gain here and there doesn't matter compared to being along for the ride when a magnitude shift does take place for potentially thousands of percent gains.

There's an easy way to determine someone's mindset in regard to the above. Print this post and attempt to complete the following in 60 seconds:

Read all directions completely before writing anything down. At the end of this exercise you will give yourself a score on how well you did.

• Write your first name in the upper left corner of this page
• Write your last name in the upper right corner of this page
• If your last name begins with a letter from A to M, circle your first name
• If your last name begins with a letter from N to Z, circle your last name
• Write today's date somewhere in the left side of this page
• Write your birthdate somewhere in the right side of this page
• If your birthdate is in a month from January to June, draw a SINGLE line under your birthdate
• If your birthdate is in a month from July to December, draw a DOUBLE line under your birthdate
• Add the DAY of your birthday to the DAY of today's date and put the number under the title of this exercise
• Write the word "score" in capital letters in the lower right corner of this page
• Draw a box around it
• Calculate 2^10 and write the answer in the middle of the page
• Multiply the result by 8 and write the answer above the previous one
• If your first name is in the upper left corner of this paper, give yourself 100 points
• If your first name is in the upper right corner of this page, give yourself -100 points
• Add the number under the title of this exercise to your score
• If there is any writing on the page before you have gotten here for the first time give yourself a ZERO! Then go back and read the directions at the top of the page telling you to read ALL directions completely before writing anything down

If you haven't seen this test before and you scrambled to complete each item, you're most like a trader. If you took the whole thing in before making a decision on where to begin, you're more like an investor. If you've seen this before and simply learned to recognize the pattern, you might be the type to miss important things that you aren't looking for. If you understand why the test is given, you're probably good at seeing the big picture.

[miscreanity]

there could very well come a time when i'll be bullish on pm's again but i think it will be a few years from now.

In a few years, you'll be riding high with Bitcoin, but have completely missed the greatest part of the PM bull.

Everyone still wants to drive a nice car, live in a nice house, go to a nice place to eat and shop (to buy crap to put in their nice house that they don't need)..  Its human nature to consume more and more, the third world nations are just getting started on their consumption of global resources..  The population is still rising, the standard of living worldwide is too.   Demand is UP for commodities and will continue to rise.   

Finite amount of resourses, with more fiat to chase them, with a higher demand  =  BULL MARKET.

When people stop fucking and wanting nice stuff, I'll stop buying commodities and PMs.

Another view is that all of the efforts to have more will lead to even greater resource consumption to fight and kill each other for control of those resources. War generally consumes resources and makes them harder to recover. How much more will that amplify consumption?

[silverbox]

irrespective of what i think, you don't see a problem with your miners stocks and silver holdings being cut in half since the top?  or gold being down 18%?  how about GPL down 13% in such a short time period?

If an asset is at a discount no matter the price to this point, it doesn't matter what the entry point is. The danger in fleeing now is that the systemic stresses are so great that there's no real way to determine when a break will occur, but there's no doubt that it will happen violently. Because of that, it might not be possible to get in again at any price, so short-term trading for a few percent gain here and there doesn't matter compared to being along for the ride when a magnitude shift does take place for potentially thousands of percent gains.

There's an easy way to determine someone's mindset in regard to the above. Print this post and attempt to complete the following in 60 seconds:

Read all directions completely before writing anything down. At the end of this exercise you will give yourself a score on how well you did.

• Write your first name in the upper left corner of this page
• Write your last name in the upper right corner of this page
• If your last name begins with a letter from A to M, circle your first name
• If your last name begins with a letter from N to Z, circle your last name
• Write today's date somewhere in the left side of this page
• Write your birthdate somewhere in the right side of this page
• If your birthdate is in a month from January to June, draw a SINGLE line under your birthdate
• If your birthdate is in a month from July to December, draw a DOUBLE line under your birthdate
• Add the DAY of your birthday to the DAY of today's date and put the number under the title of this exercise
• Write the word "score" in capital letters in the lower right corner of this page
• Draw a box around it
• Calculate 2^10 and write the answer in the middle of the page
• Multiply the result by 8 and write the answer above the previous one
• If your first name is in the upper left corner of this paper, give yourself 100 points
• If your first name is in the upper right corner of this page, give yourself -100 points
• Add the number under the title of this exercise to your score
• If there is any writing on the page before you have gotten here for the first time give yourself a ZERO! Then go back and read the directions at the top of the page telling you to read ALL directions completely before writing anything down

If you haven't seen this test before and you scrambled to complete each item, you're most like a trader. If you took the whole thing in before making a decision on where to begin, you're more like an investor. If you've seen this before and simply learned to recognize the pattern, you might be the type to miss important things that you aren't looking for. If you understand why the test is given, you're probably good at seeing the big picture.[/list]

That made me smile

[miscreanity]

That made me smile

Mission accomplished!

[cypherdoc]

You did post that you added, but not at what level, if you want to do math after the fact you need to establish starting points, the only one that you actually disclosed precisely was the 152.17 short.

It would be a lot of fucking hassle to post every trade he makes here just so you can check his math.  I doubt it's that important to him, and I'm sure he has much better things to do with his time.  If you want more specifics, join the newsletter, but you still won't get exact details on every trade.  He trades a lot.  I'm sorry you're losing money and he's gaining it, but that's no reason to make an ass of yourself and nitpick him for giving away some free advice while not giving away everything.

Really didn't Cypher claim that APPL was going to crash in 2 months to under 500... BTW I won that 10 BTC bet (thx for the coin Cypher).  I never fucking gloated about it, till now..

Wheres that crash Cypher was telling us about ??  Why isn't AAPL under 500 yet..

The great prognosticater was WRONG....

you really are a dick aren't you?

do you have any idea how profitable that 19/23 day straight dump in stocks was in May?  it was good for a ~35% -ish increase in my portfolio, as in triple lever shorts AND pm shorts.  i also exchanged those out for individual shorts to lock in those gains during the small consolidation period so those are safe.  all your peabrain can see is the difference btwn 5/1/12 and now...Don't worry an even bigger dump is coming.

i'll admit that AAPL bet was an impulsive stupid bet not based on any technicals.  i don't know how i let you change it from my original proposal that Apple wouldn't make it over $700.  despite this, it got down to $522.  oh so close and Apple will get under $500 with more time.

as far as putting up the results; it's b/c you keep taunting me if i've covered and i keep saying no.  you certainly are one to dish out the rocket to the moon pictures and claims about pm's and HI but how's that worked out?  your fucking miners are getting destroyed and bullion has gone nowhere but down for over a year.  the miners you bought the last year must be down almost 50%.  admit it.  great timing on GPL too.  and yes, Bitcoin is trouncing metals.

keep putting up those yearly bar charts on gold.

[silverbox]

You did post that you added, but not at what level, if you want to do math after the fact you need to establish starting points, the only one that you actually disclosed precisely was the 152.17 short.

It would be a lot of fucking hassle to post every trade he makes here just so you can check his math.  I doubt it's that important to him, and I'm sure he has much better things to do with his time.  If you want more specifics, join the newsletter, but you still won't get exact details on every trade.  He trades a lot.  I'm sorry you're losing money and he's gaining it, but that's no reason to make an ass of yourself and nitpick him for giving away some free advice while not giving away everything.

Really didn't Cypher claim that APPL was going to crash in 2 months to under 500... BTW I won that 10 BTC bet (thx for the coin Cypher).  I never fucking gloated about it, till now..

Wheres that crash Cypher was telling us about ??  Why isn't AAPL under 500 yet..

The great prognosticater was WRONG....

you really are a dick aren't you?

do you have any idea how profitable that 19/23 day straight dump in stocks was in May?  it was good for a ~35% -ish increase in my portfolio, as in triple lever shorts AND pm shorts.  i also exchanged those out for individual shorts to lock in those gains during the small consolidation period so those are safe.  all your peabrain can see is the difference btwn 5/1/12 and now...Don't worry an even bigger dump is coming.

i'll admit that AAPL bet was an impulsive stupid bet not based on any technicals.  i don't know how i let you change it from my original proposal that Apple wouldn't make it over $700.  despite this, it got down to $522.  oh so close and Apple will get under $500 with more time.

as far as putting up the results; it's b/c you keep taunting me if i've covered and i keep saying no.  you certainly are one to dish out the rocket to the moon pictures and claims about pm's and HI but how's that worked out?  your fucking miners are getting destroyed and bullion has gone nowhere but down for over a year.  the miners you bought the last year must be down almost 50%.  admit it.  great timing on GPL too.  and yes, Bitcoin is trouncing metals.

keep putting up those yearly bar charts on gold.

I'm not down 50% on my miners.  GPL will come back.  I'm a BTC bull too btw, not sure why u try to rub BTC rising in my face, lol.  When BTC rises I make money..

35% gain with triple leverage, which means there was a 11-12% move.  Good for you.  You guessed right that time.  When QE/election/inflation comes and the train turns around from this mild trend down, don't get caught with your pants down in triple shorts, that is extremely dangerous. 

I'm still waiting for the CRASH in the stock market and the COLLAPSE of gold..  Its been months now???

[notme]

You did post that you added, but not at what level, if you want to do math after the fact you need to establish starting points, the only one that you actually disclosed precisely was the 152.17 short.

It would be a lot of fucking hassle to post every trade he makes here just so you can check his math.  I doubt it's that important to him, and I'm sure he has much better things to do with his time.  If you want more specifics, join the newsletter, but you still won't get exact details on every trade.  He trades a lot.  I'm sorry you're losing money and he's gaining it, but that's no reason to make an ass of yourself and nitpick him for giving away some free advice while not giving away everything.

Really didn't Cypher claim that APPL was going to crash in 2 months to under 500... BTW I won that 10 BTC bet (thx for the coin Cypher).  I never fucking gloated about it, till now..

Wheres that crash Cypher was telling us about ??  Why isn't AAPL under 500 yet..

The great prognosticater was WRONG....

you really are a dick aren't you?

do you have any idea how profitable that 19/23 day straight dump in stocks was in May?  it was good for a ~35% -ish increase in my portfolio, as in triple lever shorts AND pm shorts.  i also exchanged those out for individual shorts to lock in those gains during the small consolidation period so those are safe.  all your peabrain can see is the difference btwn 5/1/12 and now...Don't worry an even bigger dump is coming.

i'll admit that AAPL bet was an impulsive stupid bet not based on any technicals.  i don't know how i let you change it from my original proposal that Apple wouldn't make it over $700.  despite this, it got down to $522.  oh so close and Apple will get under $500 with more time.

as far as putting up the results; it's b/c you keep taunting me if i've covered and i keep saying no.  you certainly are one to dish out the rocket to the moon pictures and claims about pm's and HI but how's that worked out?  your fucking miners are getting destroyed and bullion has gone nowhere but down for over a year.  the miners you bought the last year must be down almost 50%.  admit it.  great timing on GPL too.  and yes, Bitcoin is trouncing metals.

keep putting up those yearly bar charts on gold.

I'm not down 50% on my miners.  GPL will come back.  I'm a BTC bull too btw, not sure why u try to rub BTC rising in my face, lol.  When BTC rises I make money..

35% gain with triple leverage, which means there was a 11-12% move.  Good for you.  You guessed right that time.  When QE/election/inflation comes and the train turns around from this mild trend down, don't get caught with your pants down in triple shorts, that is extremely dangerous. 

I'm still waiting for the CRASH in the stock market and the COLLAPSE of gold..  Its been months now???

It has been months and during those months the trend has been down in both stocks and PMs.

[cypherdoc]

You did post that you added, but not at what level, if you want to do math after the fact you need to establish starting points, the only one that you actually disclosed precisely was the 152.17 short.

It would be a lot of fucking hassle to post every trade he makes here just so you can check his math.  I doubt it's that important to him, and I'm sure he has much better things to do with his time.  If you want more specifics, join the newsletter, but you still won't get exact details on every trade.  He trades a lot.  I'm sorry you're losing money and he's gaining it, but that's no reason to make an ass of yourself and nitpick him for giving away some free advice while not giving away everything.

Really didn't Cypher claim that APPL was going to crash in 2 months to under 500... BTW I won that 10 BTC bet (thx for the coin Cypher).  I never fucking gloated about it, till now..

Wheres that crash Cypher was telling us about ??  Why isn't AAPL under 500 yet..

The great prognosticater was WRONG....

you really are a dick aren't you?

do you have any idea how profitable that 19/23 day straight dump in stocks was in May?  it was good for a ~35% -ish increase in my portfolio, as in triple lever shorts AND pm shorts.  i also exchanged those out for individual shorts to lock in those gains during the small consolidation period so those are safe.  all your peabrain can see is the difference btwn 5/1/12 and now...Don't worry an even bigger dump is coming.

i'll admit that AAPL bet was an impulsive stupid bet not based on any technicals.  i don't know how i let you change it from my original proposal that Apple wouldn't make it over $700.  despite this, it got down to $522.  oh so close and Apple will get under $500 with more time.

as far as putting up the results; it's b/c you keep taunting me if i've covered and i keep saying no.  you certainly are one to dish out the rocket to the moon pictures and claims about pm's and HI but how's that worked out?  your fucking miners are getting destroyed and bullion has gone nowhere but down for over a year.  the miners you bought the last year must be down almost 50%.  admit it.  great timing on GPL too.  and yes, Bitcoin is trouncing metals.

keep putting up those yearly bar charts on gold.

I'm not down 50% on my miners.  

its pretty damn close to that.  tell us what it is.

GPL will come back.  I'm a BTC bull too btw, not sure why u try to rub BTC rising in my face, lol.  When BTC rises I make money..

b/c you're not about making money on BTC.  you're about trying to make me look bad on the title of this thread so that your more favored investment, gold and silver, will go up.

35% gain with triple leverage, which means there was a 11-12% move.  Good for you.  You guessed right that time.  When QE/election/inflation comes and the train turns around from this mild trend down, don't get caught with your pants down in triple shorts, that is extremely dangerous.  

don't even attempt give me advice on short term trading.  you're all about buying pm's and miners and holding to the bitter end.  its a religion with you guys.

I'm still waiting for the CRASH in the stock market and the COLLAPSE of gold..  Its been months now???

i prefer a slow grinding crash and collapse.  it gives you guys hope and you'll continue to knife catch like with GPL.

[silverbox]

Here's the problem.  Cypher claims things are about to implode, then justifys it with the minor downtrend we have had in the last 3 months as if somehow he made a great call.  Its a minor downtrend..  So he got the minor downtrend right, yippie, its a tiny move, it could have easily gone the other way.  Here's a chart to put it in perspective.

We have not had a CRASH in the market in the last 3 months..

[cypherdoc]

Here's the problem.  Cyhper claims things are about to implode, then justify's it with the minor downtrend we have had in the last 3 months as if somehow he made a great call.  Its a minor downtrend..  So he got the minor downtrend right, yippie, its a tiny move, it could have easily gone the other way.  Here's a chart to put it in perspective.

We have not had a CRASH in the market in the last 3 months..

first of all, my subs and i have been able to trade the moves in both directions since the top on 5/1/12 very SUCCESSFULLY.  personally, i'm up this year around 45% give or take.  don't forget i was long up into the top at the beginning of this year too.

i do think we've seen the top of this market for years to come and am set up to play the downtrend.  a slow collapse is fine with me and i'll continue to play the turns as i see them.

i propose a solution which plays right into what you proposed from the beginning; take the start of this thread date as a measuring point.  if we do, this is what we get:

Stocks:  -5%

Gold:  -7%

Bitcoin:  +17%

Difference Gold/Bitcoin:  24%

silverbox's GPL:  -14%

cypher's GLD:  +0.63%.  i won't pester you with my other miner shorts and their gains.

sorry dude; you're getting wiped out.

and you still won't tell us how far down you are on your other miners.

[silverbox]

There you go again with the inflammatory language..  I'm getting wiped out..  

Cause the market and gold are down ~10%??  and BTC is up 17%?  

Yup I'm totally WIPED OUT..    

I'll ride out this minor downturn with no exposure in very risky shorts to a large upswing that could take all your gains in the last 3 months in a few days/hours, with unlimited loss exposure..

[cypherdoc]

There you go again with the inflammatory language..  I'm getting wiped out..  

Cause the market and gold are down ~10%??  and BTC is up 17%?  

Yup I'm totally WIPED OUT..    

I'll ride out this minor downturn with no exposure in very risky shorts to a large upswing that could take all your gains in the last 3 months in a few days/hours, with unlimited loss exposure..

heh, i'm just measuring up to your big mouth.

[silverbox]

There you go again with the inflammatory language..  I'm getting wiped out..  

Cause the market and gold are down ~10%??  and BTC is up 17%?  

Yup I'm totally WIPED OUT..    

I'll ride out this minor downturn with no exposure in very risky shorts to a large upswing that could take all your gains in the last 3 months in a few days/hours, with unlimited loss exposure..

heh, i'm just measuring up to your big mouth.

Really thats all you got?  You make wild radical claims and I call BS and refute them, then when they don't materialize the way you claimed you say I'm the one with a big mouth?? 

[cypherdoc]

There you go again with the inflammatory language..  I'm getting wiped out..  

Cause the market and gold are down ~10%??  and BTC is up 17%?  

Yup I'm totally WIPED OUT..    

I'll ride out this minor downturn with no exposure in very risky shorts to a large upswing that could take all your gains in the last 3 months in a few days/hours, with unlimited loss exposure..

heh, i'm just measuring up to your big mouth.

Really thats all you got?  You make wild radical claims and I call BS and refute them, then when they don't materialize the way you claimed you say I'm the one with a big mouth?? 

just go with the statistics above, man.  how far again are you down on your miners?

[silverbox]

There you go again with the inflammatory language..  I'm getting wiped out..  

Cause the market and gold are down ~10%??  and BTC is up 17%?  

Yup I'm totally WIPED OUT..    

I'll ride out this minor downturn with no exposure in very risky shorts to a large upswing that could take all your gains in the last 3 months in a few days/hours, with unlimited loss exposure..

heh, i'm just measuring up to your big mouth.

Really thats all you got?  You make wild radical claims and I call BS and refute them, then when they don't materialize the way you claimed you say I'm the one with a big mouth?? 

just go with the statistics above, man.  how far again are you down on your miners?

Overall?  I'm way up.. I been buying miners since 2003ish.. Started with copper miners, but have bought a bunch of other ones over the years.  The dips I've bought in the last year or so?  I don't know, maybe 20-30% down.

[cypherdoc]

how bout this?  i will admit i'm wrong if the Dow gets back up over the 5/1/12 high or gold gets back up over the 2/28/12 high by the end of the year.

you make a similar commitment.  you'll notice, btw, that i've made realistic targets that are reasonably easy to reach for you to call me wrong.

why don't you commit to something like gold won't go below 1523 or that silver won't go below the December low of 26.14 by the end of the year?  or that the Dow won't go below the 6/4/12 low?

[silverbox]

how bout this?  i will admit i'm wrong if the Dow gets back up over the 5/1/12 high or gold gets back up over the 2/28/12 high by the end of the year.

you make a similar commitment.  you'll notice, btw, that i've made realistic targets that are reasonably easy to reach for you to call me wrong.

why don't you commit to something like gold won't go below 1523 or that silver won't go below the December low of 26.14 by the end of the year?  or that the Dow won't go below the 6/4/12 low?

lol You called for a CRASH in the stock market.  I want to see 7k dow.  You called for a COLLAPSE of gold with a target of 400.  I want to see 800 gold by the end of the year.

If I see those, I'll say you were right, we had a stock market CRASH and a COLLAPSE in gold.

You have got the direction right for the last 3-4 months, but the magnitude is WAY off .  More power to you for making money on a minor pullback, I personally just think its VERY risky, because things can turn fast, and you can get caught with your pants down.  Especially with triple leverage and shorts..

It could downtrend for the rest of the year, I don't see it. I think something will catalyze the market and we will have a nice 2nd half or last quarter of 2012, but I could be wrong.

[cypherdoc]

i am not wrong yet.  just look at the seesaw at the top in 2007-8.  i went short in Sept 07 approx and it was painful for a while but look what eventually happened.  you've got to be patient, and yes, collapse or crashes take time.  i wouldn't advise trying to ride this one out.

[MatthewLM]

Patience? I didn't think you were interested in longer term investments that you need to wait for. Everyone long gold is also waiting. We will see... At the moment it's just boring. *yawn*

[cypherdoc]

Patience? I didn't think you were interested in longer term investments that you need to wait for. Everyone long gold is also waiting. We will see... At the moment it's just boring. *yawn*

i'm pretty sure everyone here knows i'm patiently waiting for the Bitcoin rocket.

i'm also patiently waiting for gold/silver/miners to make new lows along with the stock market.  patient i am.