Why do islam hates people?

[Wilikon]

Armenian killings 'were genocide' - German president



German President Joachim Gauck has described as "genocide" the killings of Armenians by Ottoman Turks, a move likely to cause an outrage in Turkey.

He was speaking on the eve of a debate in the German parliament on the issue.

The Armenian Church earlier canonised 1.5 million Armenians it says were killed in massacres and deportations by Ottoman Turks during World War One.

Turkey disputes the term "genocide", arguing that there were many deaths on both sides during the conflict.
On Friday commemorations will mark the 100th anniversary of the killings.
German 'responsibility'

Speaking at a church service in Berlin, President Gauck said: "The fate of the Armenians stands as exemplary in the history of mass exterminations, ethnic cleansing, deportations and yes, genocide, which marked the 20th Century in such a terrible way."

Mr Gauck, who holds a largely ceremonial role, added that Germans also bore some responsibility "and in some cases complicity" concerning the "genocide of the Armenians". Germany was an ally of the Ottoman Empire during World War One.

His comments come as the German parliament, the Bundestag, prepares to debate a motion on the 1915 massacres.

But instead of a clear statement of condemnation, politicians will discuss an opaque, tortuously-worded sentence, which aims to be unclear enough to keep everyone happy - with the sort of convoluted phrasing that the German language is so good at, the BBC's Damien McGuinness in Berlin reports.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32437633

[onurakkas]

i was born and grown up in Turkey.
Turkey is only country hold are muslim and europaen(non-muslim) communities.
These groups are struggle with each, invariably.
i won't answer the question frankly.
But you can asking sincerely questions me. (Sorry i know my english terrible)

Best Regards.

[Spendulus]

This is an accurate point of view.  It has been summarized by students of history as "Political change is the product of a radical minority."


We are told again and again by ‘experts’ and ‘talking heads’ that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant.

It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectra of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.....

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

This logic can be applied to anything and it's too convenient for an outsider to just lump a group of people together with other groups they don't identify with and say 'well, it's on you for not stopping those people you don't consider to be part of your tribe from doing all these things.'

From Neptyder's point of view, he says ISIS isn't a Muslim organization and isn't acting in a way that represents what he understands Islam to be, so what impetus does he have to stop anyone from ISIS doing anything? As it applies to us, if you're an isolationist, do you have a duty to pick up a gun to prevent the military interventionism? Or further, Muslims can use the logic displayed here to say 'all peace loving Americans have a duty to stop the military from killing innocent people in drone attacks, and the fact that they refuse to proves they agree with the killing of innocent people.'

What exactly is it you want people to do?

LOL, your argument makes me laugh.  Somehow reminds me of the puzzle of Franco and the Spanish civil war.  Picture this.  You are just some guy trying to travel through some villages.  At each village guys with rifles ask you..
"Are you a Catholic or a Communist?"

Your job is to answer right or they shoot you.

But you never know which THEY are.

The reduction of individuality into a binary decision is what was described in the German situation, and it has happened many other times in history.  It's a valid warning, not to be shrugged off.

[Wilikon]

i was born and grown up in Turkey.
Turkey is only country hold are muslim and europaen(non-muslim) communities.
These groups are struggle with each, invariably.
i won't answer the questions frankly.
But you can asking sincerely questions me. (Sorry i know my english terrible)

Best Regards.

I understand if you cannot answer the questions frankly if you are in Turkey.

[Spendulus]

i was born and grown up in Turkey.
Turkey is only country hold are muslim and europaen(non-muslim) communities.
These groups are struggle with each, invariably.
i won't answer the questions frankly.
But you can asking sincerely questions me. (Sorry i know my english terrible)

Best Regards.

I understand if you cannot answer the questions frankly if you are in Turkey.

I agree and non the less, welcome you to the discussion.

[bryant.coleman]

i was born and grown up in Turkey.
Turkey is only country hold are muslim and europaen(non-muslim) communities.

Turkey is no better than the other Muslim nations. A hundred years ago, 20% of the Turkish population were non-Muslims, including the Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, Jews, and the Yazidis. Now it has come down to less than 0.1%. Sadly, what has happened in the other Muslim nations have happened in Turkey also.

[onurakkas]

i was born and grown up in Turkey.
Turkey is only country hold are muslim and europaen(non-muslim) communities.

Turkey is no better than the other Muslim nations. A hundred years ago, 20% of the Turkish population were non-Muslims, including the Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, Jews, and the Yazidis. Now it has come down to less than 0.1%. Sadly, what has happened in the other Muslim nations have happened in Turkey also.

Unfortunately each sentences are wrong. Anybody isn't know better than me.

Additionally: thats informations are basic and awkward, you cannot recognize without living the Turkey.

[BADecker]

i was born and grown up in Turkey.
Turkey is only country hold are muslim and europaen(non-muslim) communities.

Turkey is no better than the other Muslim nations. A hundred years ago, 20% of the Turkish population were non-Muslims, including the Greeks, Armenians, Assyrians, Jews, and the Yazidis. Now it has come down to less than 0.1%. Sadly, what has happened in the other Muslim nations have happened in Turkey also.

Unfortunately each sentences are wrong. Anybody isn't know better than me.

Please explain the truth as you see it.

[onurakkas]

If you are understand me then you should working understand ATATURK.

ATATURK is the most great commander throughout of the  history.

ATATURK were do revolution to modernize Turkey. But Turkey decided going to medieval, this recent 15 years ago .

http://greece.greekreporter.com/files/ataturk-3.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIKTnHUe_Sm9KZLPzYnHrIb1A8oDzBVGguAbtdB2XiiiR27NjALA

http://www.ataturkvakfi.org.tr/anareklam/MustafaKemalAtaturk001.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3-2PSYmj7oYOoTb022KobM2D2HhP2WLnZKjntR9GYF-pIfgncHw

http://i.ensonhaber.com/resimler/diger/ataturk_1279.jpg

[BADecker]

If you are understand me then you should working understand ATATURK.

ATATURK is the most great commander throughout of the  history.

ATATURK were do revolution to modernize Turkey. But Turkey decided going to medieval, this recent 15 years ago .

http://greece.greekreporter.com/files/ataturk-3.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSIKTnHUe_Sm9KZLPzYnHrIb1A8oDzBVGguAbtdB2XiiiR27NjALA

http://www.ataturkvakfi.org.tr/anareklam/MustafaKemalAtaturk001.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ3-2PSYmj7oYOoTb022KobM2D2HhP2WLnZKjntR9GYF-pIfgncHw

http://i.ensonhaber.com/resimler/diger/ataturk_1279.jpg

Are you using the Bing translator? - http://www.bing.com/translator/?ref=SALL&br=ro&mkt=en-US.

There are many great military people. Perhaps ATATURK was the greatest Turkish one. What does this have to do with Turkish Islam? It takes a long time for a nation to change because of a change in religions.

----------

Bing çevirmen kullanıyorsunuz? -http://www.bing.com/translator/?ref=SALL&br=ro&mkt=en-US.

Birçok kişi büyük askeri. Belki de Atatürk en büyük Türk olan oydu. Türk Islam ile ilgisi ne? Dinler, bir değişikliği nedeniyle değiştirmek bir millet için çok uzun sürüyor.

[jaysabi]

This is an accurate point of view.  It has been summarized by students of history as "Political change is the product of a radical minority."


We are told again and again by ‘experts’ and ‘talking heads’ that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant.

It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectra of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.....

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

This logic can be applied to anything and it's too convenient for an outsider to just lump a group of people together with other groups they don't identify with and say 'well, it's on you for not stopping those people you don't consider to be part of your tribe from doing all these things.'

From Neptyder's point of view, he says ISIS isn't a Muslim organization and isn't acting in a way that represents what he understands Islam to be, so what impetus does he have to stop anyone from ISIS doing anything? As it applies to us, if you're an isolationist, do you have a duty to pick up a gun to prevent the military interventionism? Or further, Muslims can use the logic displayed here to say 'all peace loving Americans have a duty to stop the military from killing innocent people in drone attacks, and the fact that they refuse to proves they agree with the killing of innocent people.'

What exactly is it you want people to do?

LOL, your argument makes me laugh.  Somehow reminds me of the puzzle of Franco and the Spanish civil war.  Picture this.  You are just some guy trying to travel through some villages.  At each village guys with rifles ask you..
"Are you a Catholic or a Communist?"

Your job is to answer right or they shoot you.

But you never know which THEY are.

The reduction of individuality into a binary decision is what was described in the German situation, and it has happened many other times in history.  It's a valid warning, not to be shrugged off.

You can laugh, of course. I'd prefer a counterpoint though. Or an answer to the question.

[Spendulus]

This is an accurate point of view.  It has been summarized by students of history as "Political change is the product of a radical minority."


We are told again and again by ‘experts’ and ‘talking heads’ that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant.

It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectra of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.....

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.

This logic can be applied to anything and it's too convenient for an outsider to just lump a group of people together with other groups they don't identify with and say 'well, it's on you for not stopping those people you don't consider to be part of your tribe from doing all these things.'

From Neptyder's point of view, he says ISIS isn't a Muslim organization and isn't acting in a way that represents what he understands Islam to be, so what impetus does he have to stop anyone from ISIS doing anything? As it applies to us, if you're an isolationist, do you have a duty to pick up a gun to prevent the military interventionism? Or further, Muslims can use the logic displayed here to say 'all peace loving Americans have a duty to stop the military from killing innocent people in drone attacks, and the fact that they refuse to proves they agree with the killing of innocent people.'

What exactly is it you want people to do?

LOL, your argument makes me laugh.  Somehow reminds me of the puzzle of Franco and the Spanish civil war.  Picture this.  You are just some guy trying to travel through some villages.  At each village guys with rifles ask you..
"Are you a Catholic or a Communist?"

Your job is to answer right or they shoot you.

But you never know which THEY are.

The reduction of individuality into a binary decision is what was described in the German situation, and it has happened many other times in history.  It's a valid warning, not to be shrugged off.

You can laugh, of course. I'd prefer a counterpoint though. Or an answer to the question.

I'm not sure how to produce a counterpoint.  It is a historical observation.  When one goes back and looks at processes of change including violent change, it is apparent.

This is an accurate point of view.  It has been summarized by students of history as "Political change is the product of a radical minority."

If you are asking how might one take such a truth and generate actionable precepts today, it would be likely to simply recognize that radical extremists are in fact attempting to take over Islam today.  They say they are.  They say they are establishing a Caliphate.  They say they are going to kill all the Evil Joooesss.  Etc, etc.

[Wilikon]

Muslim Man Says Islam Forbids Him From Paying $32,000 In Student Loan Interest…

Steve Rhode, the Get Out of Debt Guy, has advised a Muslim man seeking financial advice not to try to use Islam as a crutch to get out of paying half of what is now a $64,000 student loan debt.

“Dear Steve,” the Seattle, Wash. man going by the name Amir wrote to Rhode in a missive published this week, “I had two citi-student loans and at some point in time within the last 5 years they went to Navient.”

Amir explained that he had unsuccessfully asked the loan servicing company to lower his payoff amount to $32,000, even though the actual amount he owes is $64,000 “because of deferment and interest.”

The dismayed student loan borrower also noted that he “was born into Islam” but only took a serious interest in the religion in 2012. One thing he has learned since then, he said, is that “dealings with interest” are “strictly forbidden” under Islam.

“I am offering to pay off the original amount I owe,” Amir graciously offered. As for the rest, he wants his creditors to acknowledge that his “awareness and conditions have changed” since he accepted the loan.

“Can I get the interest wiped out and close this account and case with just paying the original amount borrowed?” Amir asked.

Rhode then responded by having exactly none of Amir’s plea for a religion-based student loan discount.


http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/24/muslim-decides-islam-forbids-him-from-paying-32000-in-student-loan-interest/

[Muhammed Zakir]

He shouldn't have taken a loan with interest if he doesn't like to pay interest. He probably will end up in a bad way if he doesn't pay. There are many ways for him to pay if he is firm with his decision such as using interest paid to depositors by banks to pay the interest of the loan. Still, his real intention is unknown.

[Netpyder]

Muslim Man Says Islam Forbids Him From Paying $32,000 In Student Loan Interest…

Steve Rhode, the Get Out of Debt Guy, has advised a Muslim man seeking financial advice not to try to use Islam as a crutch to get out of paying half of what is now a $64,000 student loan debt.

“Dear Steve,” the Seattle, Wash. man going by the name Amir wrote to Rhode in a missive published this week, “I had two citi-student loans and at some point in time within the last 5 years they went to Navient.”

Amir explained that he had unsuccessfully asked the loan servicing company to lower his payoff amount to $32,000, even though the actual amount he owes is $64,000 “because of deferment and interest.”

The dismayed student loan borrower also noted that he “was born into Islam” but only took a serious interest in the religion in 2012. One thing he has learned since then, he said, is that “dealings with interest” are “strictly forbidden” under Islam.

“I am offering to pay off the original amount I owe,” Amir graciously offered. As for the rest, he wants his creditors to acknowledge that his “awareness and conditions have changed” since he accepted the loan.

“Can I get the interest wiped out and close this account and case with just paying the original amount borrowed?” Amir asked.

Rhode then responded by having exactly none of Amir’s plea for a religion-based student loan discount.


http://dailycaller.com/2015/04/24/muslim-decides-islam-forbids-him-from-paying-32000-in-student-loan-interest/

does this shape islam in a bad way if someone outside a muslim regulated country tried to escape loan by using a islamic tradition and economic institutional constitunional law where it is not recognized? my point is how does this stick to the topic you started, Wilikon

[Marianne Skanland]

  

Muslim Man Says Islam Forbids Him From Paying $32,000 In Student Loan Interest…

The long-lived opinion in some cultures that interest on loans is sinful is of course nurtured by a reaction against loan-sharks. Nevertheless:

To refuse the use of interest in the economy amounts to denying that time has value. But it certainly has. Regardless of religious speculations it is utterly irrational to deny it and it harms the economic workings of society not to recognise this.

Say you have worked hard and saved up a sum of money to spend on what you want so much: buying a seaside cabin. You may buy it now, and enjoy the use of it for the next ten years. Or you may lend the money to others for ten years. Then you certainly should be compensated for not having had the use of the cabin for those years, not only be handed back the original sum (even if there had not been any inflation) and buy your cabin ten years later. Postponing your own enjoyment might even result in your dying before you can fulfil your dream.

The man with the above-mentioned student loan – that money did not descend from heaven. It ultimately came from people in his society who had worked and saved up. The money is promissory notes: a promise of services or goods. The borrower had the enjoyment of the money while those who had financed the loan did not have the use of that money for the years that he had the benefit of it. Refusing to pay interest as a thank you for that, exposes religious advocators that preach it as poor judges of what makes society work.

And of course it is not really practiced in Muslim countries. Depositors in a bank are not paid "interest" but have it handed to them under some other name of "corporate benefit of cooperation something something …"
  

[pattu1]

Muslim Man Says Islam Forbids Him From Paying $32,000 In Student Loan Interest…

Islamic banking is the in thing now a days.
The return to the bank just has to be routed through some other way. This guy can call it interest or whatever he is comfortable with. 

[BitMos]

He shouldn't have taken a loan with interest if he doesn't like to pay interest. He probably will end up in a bad way if he doesn't pay. There are many ways for him to pay if he is firm with his decision such as using interest paid to depositors by banks to pay the interest of the loan. Still, his real intention is unknown.

exactly, it's like cheating on your wife, it's a binary event: it is or it isn't, moreover no one forced nor coerced you. I am just saying that by respect to myself I can't say that I would endorse usury due to it's exponential nature. I will explain to the bimbo later on...

 

Muslim Man Says Islam Forbids Him From Paying $32,000 In Student Loan Interest…

The long-lived opinion in some cultures that interest on loans is sinful is of course nurtured by a reaction against loan-sharks. Nevertheless:

To refuse the use of interest in the economy amounts to denying that time has value. But it certainly has. Regardless of religious speculations it is utterly irrational to deny it and it harms the economic workings of society not to recognise this.

Say you have worked hard and saved up a sum of money to spend on what you want so much: buying a seaside cabin. You may buy it now, and enjoy the use of it for the next ten years. Or you may lend the money to others for ten years. Then you certainly should be compensated for not having had the use of the cabin for those years, not only be handed back the original sum (even if there had not been any inflation) and buy your cabin ten years later. Postponing your own enjoyment might even result in your dying before you can fulfil your dream.

The man with the above-mentioned student loan – that money did not descend from heaven. It ultimately came from people in his society who had worked and saved up. The money is promissory notes: a promise of services or goods. The borrower had the enjoyment of the money while those who had financed the loan did not have the use of that money for the years that he had the benefit of it. Refusing to pay interest as a thank you for that, exposes religious advocators that preach it as poor judges of what makes society work.

And of course it is not really practiced in Muslim countries. Depositors in a bank are not paid "interest" but have it handed to them under some other name of "corporate benefit of cooperation something something …"
  

you people are so boring, little statist...

so let's put the frame:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Battalion_21st_Field_Artillery_Regiment_%28United_States%29

welcome,


http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=JN.39EBoWakti5SeXS3g8lHog&pid=15.1&H=106&W=160

even at night


http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/images/M777A2-09-2014.jpg

and if too far


http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/-images/2011/01/19/96942/size0-army.mil-96942-2011-01-19-150104.jpg

first don't stay in plumes, if you knew what is going out...

so yes Marianne you are uneducated, framed and incapable in thinking in scale, I can't reproach you this, but please don't stand in the path of those that can.

move to the hill for your first moab:

http://www.digitaljournal.com/img/2/4/8/3/0/3/i/1/4/8/o/moab_bomb.jpg

yep...

now as it's certain the area is wide, let's see a carpeting...

ahh sorry it's still under nda, for the time being.

So yes, you are in a dream land, there is no problem if you just could please that any attempt of framing those capable of leading to such level of violence on a subnuclear level is so futile, that's even tragic that you wish to attempt it. it's a lack of comtempt for your life, and even the meaning of human life. however I agree we are all different but you have no rights to interefer in mine. however unicors butterflied tattooed on the ass are no match to only on battalion, there 15+ and it's just that...

so...

when you take into the taxes like proprety taxes linked to the values of certain asset class it becomes apparent the damage that inflation can do to their owners. By leveraging against interest (you have to be stupid to do that), you understand that you impact the price of all asset class... however this impact will be felt by non usurers on their asset on which the propriety's tax is linked to the market values. It's called legal expropriation, I can't tolerate to be done to anyone, I find it unfair. Further it devalute the purchasing power of soliders for those that chose to not deploy their assets and contribute to the usury while over seas.

I am sure that since you have been put into context, we can leave the front and return to a more civilized matter:

human don't have the capacity to price time. it's impossible. because what you don't understand is the level of warfare in the financial world. clean hands, no blood or at least only of the one that decided to jump after the most excruciating defeat. so any way you frame your social utopia it will gamed. it's synthetic of the nature of life, however if you understand that the reward=risk that this equation is unbreakable, because it's beyond physics.

you get the major concern of market fundamentalist$ that refuse to take part in the plundering allowed by the loaning at interest and the structural impossibility to live in peace, without peace there can't be love. as such by introducing a tool of war, even if you like many many are unable to even understand that it's the most potent form of warfare, I can only say... pre tap run, or repharzed the algos know it all. and you can't fight them. oh nooo. you can't trick them... ohhh nooo, you can try, fall on the trap little  sweety. so are 20+ years in the making .

ahhh but there is no pretap there.


CONTRACTUAL LAW ARE MATTER OF SACRED - HAVE YOU WORDS BEFORE THY FELLOW HOW COULD YOU IN THE AFTERLIFE? there are the will of the HUMAN BEING agreing to a trade, such WILLS are to be defend, it could be 2 soliders, 2 civilians, who cares it ain't the front... but don't take the Floor for fools, you only increase the timely incurrence of the inevitable.

click.

those that teach/write those stuff that you repeat have been framed. it was done so by the game professional to assure a dominance over the flock. you have to agree that you are free to stay in the park. and that even if you are the lead sheep, you will still not defy the shepard dog... why why... when so many others did :


http://www.donaldmjones.com/data/photos/3485_1bighorn_sheep04783d.jpg

I hope this last picture will permit to reheat your little colded heart by my kind (even if you will find them brutual) it's just it's boring to lie lie lie, and it's slow the progression toward the annihilation of the enemy. remember the war on terror is still fully on, I hope you aren't one of them, because it don't care... if you see what I mean...

because I said that how you easly fold on this primitive education... remember they believed the earth was round and nuclear plant safe and dna manipulation stable... primates, they just scamed papers and powder...

http://www.richesfinejewelry.com/ebay2/2010/106-dragonvase6.jpg

and even fire... don't tread on us.
 

[Spendulus]

 

Muslim Man Says Islam Forbids Him From Paying $32,000 In Student Loan Interest…

The long-lived opinion in some cultures that interest on loans is sinful is of course nurtured by a reaction against loan-sharks. Nevertheless:....

But I can go with that.  True Believers of the Islam Faith should give us all zero interest loans.  Particularly in areas where there are Evil Joooeeesss sucking in all that evil interest.

Problem solved.

[BADecker]

 

Muslim Man Says Islam Forbids Him From Paying $32,000 In Student Loan Interest…

The long-lived opinion in some cultures that interest on loans is sinful is of course nurtured by a reaction against loan-sharks. Nevertheless:....

But I can go with that.  True Believers of the Islam Faith should give us all zero interest loans.  Particularly in areas where there are Evil Joooeeesss sucking in all that evil interest.

Problem solved.

Problem NOT solved. I had to log in just to write this, because this is very important. Loans in the U.S. and the modern banking world that is under the IMF (International Monetary Fund) are not loans. They are creations of new money.

Two Federal Reserve pamphlets that are both now out of print explain this. They are "Modern Money Mechanics" and "Two Faces of Debt." "Two Faces of Debt" is shorter, and clearly explains how modern bank loans are not loans at the same time that they are. The thing that both pamphlets hide is, who is loaning the money to whom.

Things have changed a little since 20 years ago, but the loan process essentially works like this:
1. You get approved for a loan;
2. You sit across from the loan officer and sign the promissory note or other paperwork;
3. The loan officer takes your signed paperwork, as a loan from you, and deposits it into a temporary holding account that he opens up in your name, just like it was a check that you had signed;
4. The loan officer then withdraws the amount from your temporary holding account in the form of a bank check, or maybe even cash, and closes the temporary account;
5. The loan officer repays the loan to you from the instrument(s) he withdrew, with the idea that you think that it is a loan from the bank;
6. Over the months or years you donate funds to the bank thinking that you are paying back a loan with interest, a thing that you cannot do, because the bank never loaned you the money... rather, you loaned it to the bank that first day, and the bank payed you back at the same time;
7. The bank sells the loan paperwork to unwary buyers (who don't understand the process any more than you do) to make it hard for anyone to find the real paperwork that you could use to fight the bank with.

How do we know this is true? A few bank accountants who couldn't stomach the dishonesty have come forward to show the bank ledgers that prove that this is exactly what is happening. Google "Tom Schauf," one of those (former) bank accountants, and get his books.