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Author Topic: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack  (Read 124384 times)
repentance
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July 29, 2012, 06:27:11 AM
 #341



When a 17 year old kid knocks a baseball through my window and tries to blame someone else I would go talk to the 17-year kid's parents.  I don't see why they would not be contacted for this.

So what are you going to say?  We think your son is responsible for a major crime and we want you to do something about it?  A crime which hasn't even been reported to the authorities?  What ability do they have to determine whether or not Zhou is responsible?

This isn't being proposed as a "your kid's got himself into a tight spot and he could use your help" kind of thing.  What additional benefit is there to involving Zhou's parents?

Don't get me wrong, I think the way this is being handled is sketchy as hell but I don't see how involving Zhou's parents is going to make it any less sketchy.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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July 29, 2012, 06:30:00 AM
 #342



When a 17 year old kid knocks a baseball through my window and tries to blame someone else I would go talk to the 17-year kid's parents.  I don't see why they would not be contacted for this.

So what are you going to say?  We think your son is responsible for a major crime and we want you to do something about it?  A crime which hasn't even been reported to the authorities?  What ability do they have to determine whether or not Zhou is responsible?

This isn't being proposed as a "your kid's got himself into a tight spot and he could use your help" kind of thing.  What additional benefit is there to involving Zhou's parents?

Don't get me wrong, I think the way this is being handled is sketchy as hell but I don't see how involving Zhou's parents is going to make it any less sketchy.

I don't think anyone should talk to his parents.  If he is lying though, he needs to talk to his parents.  At this point in the game it would seem that things are looking good for us waiting for payments.
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July 29, 2012, 06:31:11 AM
 #343

Hmm. BitInstant (whom Roger Ver is part owner of), MtGox and AurumXchange start a thread about how Zhou Tong is a hacker and a thief (advised by their attorney) which breaks all of their privacy agreements of their own companies and is basically libel.

MtGox listens to the advice of BitInstant's attorney, someone who doesn't even work for them.

They the whole boys club suddenly decides that Roger Ver, Charlie Shrem and company's attorney should be the one holding ALL customer funds for Bitcoinica with a vague condition of "until things get worked out" or something to that degree (which could be that Patrick Murck independently decides that Roger Ver should get paid out first, 100%, everyone else paid later for all we know).

It's obvious that Bitcoinica's lack of accountability and management of this issue is appalling, but come on guys-- you don't think there is any problem with this picture?

Excuse me. Please consult with me first before throwing stupid rumors across the forums.

BitInstant is not holding the funds nor has any part of this. I was consulted after it was done.

As far as I understand, the funds are being held in some kind of trust account.

Your free to speak to Patrick Murck about it yourself.

-Charlie

I think if this is done, it is a wise choice. Some money held with an attorney of representatives of group that tries to recover funds is WAY better than having nothing. This is a good progress.

Would you prefer this money to be transferred to intersango trio? Those guys are now clear target for recovery of the rest of the funds from their personal funds and assets and are not to be trusted with any money. It seems likely that they have either committed a breach of fiduciary duty (by their inaction as directors and operators of Bitcoinica) or committed an act of fraud by misrepresenting their position to public. What a nice choice.

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July 29, 2012, 06:37:03 AM
 #344


So what are you going to say?  We think your son is responsible for a major crime and we want you to do something about it?  A crime which hasn't even been reported to the authorities?  What ability do they have to determine whether or not Zhou is responsible?

This isn't being proposed as a "your kid's got himself into a tight spot and he could use your help" kind of thing.  What additional benefit is there to involving Zhou's parents?

Don't get me wrong, I think the way this is being handled is sketchy as hell but I don't see how involving Zhou's parents is going to make it any less sketchy.

As strict as his parents sound from an interview with ZT by the Bitcoin Magazine they might whoop his ass like no other.

Quote
Q: So, let’s start out with the basics. What type of family did you grow up with? What portions of your childhood do you think contributed the most to your character and work ethic?

A: I grew up in an ordinary Chinese extended family with hard-working parents. My grandparents were the ones looking after me in childhood. Up to the age of 12, I had no pocket money at all because my family pretty much decided everything for me. The only thing that I had to concentrate on was studying. I was not good at anything else, basically.

I would say there’s nothing interesting in my childhood. No toys, no cartoons and no comic books. I stayed happy because I could always get very good results and everyone in family was proud of me, and luckily I loved most of the compulsory subjects in school – especially Math, Physics, Chemistry and English.

The greatest influence to myself happened after going to Singapore. After being posted to The Affiliated High School of SCNU

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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July 29, 2012, 06:47:54 AM
 #345

This is why I don't believe Zhou.

Zhou claimed:

That his business associate stole his password when he signed up on a website.
That his business associate had access to the source code prior to anyone else.
That his business associate knew who was Chris Heaslip!
That his business associate quickly decides to return funds when confronted!

Now replace the business associate with Zhou.. And it makes a lot of sense.

He had access to the email, which he havent used in a while.
Knew the password for lastpass and the source code.
Knew all the people in bitcoinica.
And of course had access to the stolen funds.


This is the evidence just from Zhou, not aurumxchange.

That email was protected with my weakest password that I reused everywhere and even shared with some other people. I didn't have to protect that email at all because it's meant to be semi-sockpuppet anyway.

He had access to source code after genjix released it.

Chris Heaslip's Mt. Gox account was stored alongside Wendon's in the LastPass. Obviously he didn't know which one had more money so he logged in to both.

I know a lot of his personal information (especially his and his wife's bank accounts and address), and I threatened to report to police if he didn't agree to refund.

I don't know where you got all the misleading information from.
You shared the password with other people?  To an account that had the ability to withdrawal the loot?  Doesn't that sound like something you should have mentioned to your loyal customers and the people who bought this business from you?  A "sockpuppet" account???

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July 29, 2012, 06:48:25 AM
 #346

I know a lot of his personal information (especially his and his wife's bank accounts and address), and I threatened to report to police if he didn't agree to refund.

How did you get his personal information?

It seems to me that a hypothetical someone involved with credit card fraud and laundering of funds through LR or suspicious bank accounts (Liu Haipeng) would communicate with you only through his internet alias. You already admitted you've never met this individual in person, only on the internet. What reason would he have to tell you his name, his wife's name, and their bank accounts and addresses? If he were to provide you business advice about anti-fraud measures, the most likely way for him to request payment for his services would be to tell you his AliPay account, not his family's addresses and bank account numbers.

That's the hardest part to believe about this hypothetical Chen Jianhai.

Its plausible that a random someone would verify that info@bitcoinica.com is a LastPass account, and also plausible that they would try the API key as the password. If it were a random thief there would be no coincidence. But for that same someone to be your previous "business associate" who also has your stevejobs gmail password, well that's a heck of a coincidence. Unless you were to claim that you also mentioned to this person that you use LastPass, but you never did.

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July 29, 2012, 06:52:43 AM
 #347

This is why I don't believe Zhou.

Zhou claimed:

That his business associate stole his password when he signed up on a website.
That his business associate had access to the source code prior to anyone else.
That his business associate knew who was Chris Heaslip!
That his business associate quickly decides to return funds when confronted!

Now replace the business associate with Zhou.. And it makes a lot of sense.

He had access to the email, which he havent used in a while.
Knew the password for lastpass and the source code.
Knew all the people in bitcoinica.
And of course had access to the stolen funds.


This is the evidence just from Zhou, not aurumxchange.

That email was protected with my weakest password that I reused everywhere and even shared with some other people. I didn't have to protect that email at all because it's meant to be semi-sockpuppet anyway.

He had access to source code after genjix released it.

Chris Heaslip's Mt. Gox account was stored alongside Wendon's in the LastPass. Obviously he didn't know which one had more money so he logged in to both.

I know a lot of his personal information (especially his and his wife's bank accounts and address), and I threatened to report to police if he didn't agree to refund.

I don't know where you got all the misleading information from.
You shared the password with other people?  To an account that had the ability to withdrawal the loot?  Doesn't that sound like something you should have mentioned to your loyal customers and the people who bought this business from you?  A "sockpuppet" account???

Still at square 1. The possibilities are:

1) retard

2) thief

either way, not so hot.
stochastic
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July 29, 2012, 06:54:41 AM
 #348


Still at square 1. The possibilities are:

1) retard

2) thief

either way, not so hot.


3) retarded thief

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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July 29, 2012, 06:55:26 AM
 #349


Still at square 1. The possibilities are:

1) retard

2) thief

either way, not so hot.


3) retarded thief

I stand corrected Wink
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July 29, 2012, 06:59:11 AM
 #350

Hey Zhou, does this ring any bells?

  • kid hacks together a flaky leveraged trading platform
  • everyone on HN tells him to pack it up now before lots of people lose lots of money, he doesn't listen
  • site is losing money, the kid is in way over his head
  • kid keeps losses secret, perhaps covers with his own money hoping he can make it work
  • foolish buyer appears - the kid happily dumps the mess he's made
  • no longer feeling responsible, he trivially fakes a hack (those annoying forum critics were predicting it so let them have it!) and sets himself up with a nice stash of bitcoins
  • kid's attempt to just walk away fail as new owners start questioning the lack of promised profits
  • time for another hack (it worked so well the first time!) but this time the goal is getting rid of the database that most likely contradicted lies told to the new owner
  • the poor suckers left holding the bag flail around trying to figure out who to give the remaining money
  • emboldened by prior success, the kid sees yet another opportunity to loot the steaming rubble of his handiwork
  • this time he gets careless and gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, concocts a story less believable than the plot of Prometheus

Enough with the lies. I am sympathetic to the story of an ambitious kid who got in too deep and can't figure a way out but a window for claiming this story is rapidly closing. If you stick with your current course you are embracing your new identity of a boldfaced liar and a thief.

You probably still believe you can fix this and come out relatively unscathed but you are deluding yourself. It's time to tell the truth - all of it. It will free you and trust me - the consequences won't be anywhere near as severe as the alternative.
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July 29, 2012, 07:03:59 AM
 #351

I predict a ponytroll response incoming in 3...2...1...
Dansker
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July 29, 2012, 07:28:19 AM
 #352

Next time you hear someone say "Fuck the police" or "fuck lawyers" then please think of this thread.

This should have been handled by the police regarding the criminal matters and by a bancruptcy attorney regarding Bitcoinica not being able to pay all debtors.

Oh yeah, and then Zhoutong should have had a defense attorney, whose first advice to his client would be along the lines of "stfu".

zhoutong
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July 29, 2012, 07:39:15 AM
 #353

Because they involved your account in the crime and also, according to you (Zhou Tong) used it for credit card fraud. People file police reports for much, much smaller thefts. Insurance companies have people file reports as a sign of honesty. Lots of reasons to file a report.


The hacker didn't steal from me. Why should I file a police report?


The credit card fraud isn't for me. He used someone else card to buy stuff and ship to a freight forwarder. And he entered that email address for the order.

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July 29, 2012, 07:49:06 AM
 #354

This is why I don't believe Zhou.

Zhou claimed:

That his business associate stole his password when he signed up on a website.
That his business associate had access to the source code prior to anyone else.
That his business associate knew who was Chris Heaslip!
That his business associate quickly decides to return funds when confronted!

Now replace the business associate with Zhou.. And it makes a lot of sense.

He had access to the email, which he havent used in a while.
Knew the password for lastpass and the source code.
Knew all the people in bitcoinica.
And of course had access to the stolen funds.


This is the evidence just from Zhou, not aurumxchange.

That email was protected with my weakest password that I reused everywhere and even shared with some other people. I didn't have to protect that email at all because it's meant to be semi-sockpuppet anyway.

He had access to source code after genjix released it.

Chris Heaslip's Mt. Gox account was stored alongside Wendon's in the LastPass. Obviously he didn't know which one had more money so he logged in to both.

I know a lot of his personal information (especially his and his wife's bank accounts and address), and I threatened to report to police if he didn't agree to refund.

I don't know where you got all the misleading information from.
You shared the password with other people?  To an account that had the ability to withdrawal the loot?  Doesn't that sound like something you should have mentioned to your loyal customers and the people who bought this business from you?  A "sockpuppet" account???

I created that throwaway account to test a vulnerability. I have at most 10 BTC in that account.

It's my personal freedom to create an account with reused password right? And did I harm anyone?

Chen Jianhai could simply register another email and steal all the money. And we wouldn't proceed with investigation like today. Thank god he used my account and left all the evidence there, otherwise Bitcoinica users will never see the money again!

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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July 29, 2012, 07:49:31 AM
 #355

So you'd rather cross your fingers and hope no authorities uncover your email address and it's contents (subpoena google) than file a police complaint and have it on file and perhaps assist in catching the real culprits?

Because they involved your account in the crime and also, according to you (Zhou Tong) used it for credit card fraud. People file police reports for much, much smaller thefts. Insurance companies have people file reports as a sign of honesty. Lots of reasons to file a report.


The hacker didn't steal from me. Why should I file a police report?


The credit card fraud isn't for me. He used someone else card to buy stuff and ship to a freight forwarder. And he entered that email address for the order.
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July 29, 2012, 07:55:38 AM
 #356

So you'd rather cross your fingers and hope no authorities uncover your email address and it's contents (subpoena google) than file a police complaint and have it on file and perhaps assist in catching the real culprits?

Because they involved your account in the crime and also, according to you (Zhou Tong) used it for credit card fraud. People file police reports for much, much smaller thefts. Insurance companies have people file reports as a sign of honesty. Lots of reasons to file a report.


The hacker didn't steal from me. Why should I file a police report?


The credit card fraud isn't for me. He used someone else card to buy stuff and ship to a freight forwarder. And he entered that email address for the order.

Can you allow me to get the money back from him before reporting to the police? Bitcoinica customers are clearly the real victims here.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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July 29, 2012, 07:59:07 AM
 #357

The fact that despite the high number of individuals and the high amount of money lost in this mess nobody has yet filed a police report is a clear indicator of how much we (as citizens) value the work of the police and its ability to deliver satisfying action.

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July 29, 2012, 08:05:54 AM
 #358



It's my personal freedom to create an account with reused password right? And did I harm anyone?

Chen Jianhai could simply register another email and steal all the money. And we wouldn't proceed with investigation like today. Thank god he used my account and left all the evidence there, otherwise Bitcoinica users will never see the money again!

And despite the advice of several forum posters, you're still talking here... You really aren't doing yourself a favor with comments like these. Frankly I've got nothing invested in this but my opinion of you lowers every time you open your mouth. Take some friendly advice and stop talking. You're in deep here and you need to lawyer up and stfu.

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July 29, 2012, 08:11:55 AM
 #359

http://www.echinacities.com/expat-corner/illogical-or-tactical-lies-in-chinese-culture.html

Really says it all  Angry

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July 29, 2012, 08:29:20 AM
 #360

He had access to source code after genjix released it.

how? if he apparently doesn't read the forums;

His English is not very proficient and I'm sure that he's not reading this forum at the moment.
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