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Author Topic: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack  (Read 124484 times)
sarpar
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July 30, 2012, 04:15:45 PM
 #561

Thats because he is a member of the Washington DC bar

http://www.dcbar.org/find_a_member/index.cfm

-Charlie
Well then, I stand corrected!   Smiley
Sorry, I still don't get under what authority is Patrick Murck allowed to receive, possess and transfer stolen goods? There must be some sort of judicial process which results in the granting of a warrant to do so? Please Patrick Murck, lets have all the facts and proof.

Zhou is clearly on his way to prison, which is a shame and a triumph at the same time. No doubt there are others who are culpable too.


BB.

in my opinion not really important. having legal education he knows what he gets himself into. he acts on recommendation of big-players in the bitcoin scene - so I dont worry. btw. BTC-funds you can monitor in the address provided.

... contrary to that I am deeply thankful that he offers this service to the community!

Let us focus on the relevant tasks to end this nightmare the following in order:
1. Recovery of ALL funds through Zhou
2. Get the bitcoinica team up running again
3. Receive refunds
4. Thank Patrick Murk, prosecute the hacker, thank OR prosecute the Bitcoinica team (its up to you: ACT!)

let's stay with 1. and 2. for the moment, since all other theoretical discussions are of 0 value.

I openly boycott the Bitcoinica Consultancy team or Intersango: Donald Norman, Patrick Strateman and Amir Taaki
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dancingnancy
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July 30, 2012, 04:18:29 PM
 #562

@AurumXchange : Did Zhou so far provide evidence that these 40.000 "for a friend" are legitimate? Is he cooperative in that point?

No, he has not. We have sent numerous emails requesting very specific KYC information and received nothing in return.

Here is the situation (as far as I can explain in a public forum). The moment Zhou Tong, in his uncontrollable verbosity, said that the funds he exchanged through us were exchanged "for a friend", he not only breached our end user exchange agreement (which clearly specifies that third party exchanges are strictly prohibited), but also broke every AML/CFT law in existence.

We are now required by law to withhold these funds on a segregated account until:

1) The identity and residential address of each party involved can be proven by the furnishing of KYC information that is identifiable through the use of reputable services such as world-check.com and/or notarized statements by local authorities.
2) This would include the identity of Zhou Tong, "the friend", and the Multi-millionaire relic collector, since the origins of this funds are more likely the result of criminal activity.
3) We will need certified statements of the origins of funds, along with official declarations of the financial institutions involved in the handling of this funds corroborating the flow of capital.
4) Since Zhou Tong is the prime suspect of this investigation, we are under no obligation to release information to him. We have asked him repeatedly for his attorney's contact information, and to this date we have received no answer.
5) Once this information is received, and our investigation is concluded, we will report our fundings to the relevant authorities who will decide how to proceed.

Once the information is received, we would report our findings and facts to the competent authorities, and most likely release the funds to their appointed receiver for further action.



I trust you guys, but are acting extremely unprofessional.  I will personally never use your service in fear of you publicly going after users in this format.  From an outsiders perspective you really look terrible.  I'm serious.  ZT looks bad, but so do you.

You have stated ZT is the prime suspect?  In what?  Is there even a fucking police report?  He is the prime suspect according to you, AFAIK.  

Basically, you are just holding his money because you want to.  You have stated he has broken your TOS.  I am sure you have violated your own TOS when you have posted personal information about your users all over the web.

This is turning into a big fucking joke.

Get the fucking money to the lawyers so us bitcoinica users can get our money back.  That's it.  
sarpar
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July 30, 2012, 04:27:11 PM
 #563


I trust you guys, but are acting extremely unprofessional.  I will personally never use your service in fear of you publicly going after users in this format.  From an outsiders perspective you really look terrible.  I'm serious.  ZT looks bad, but so do you.

You have stated ZT is the prime suspect?  In what?  Is there even a fucking police report?  He is the prime suspect according to you, AFAIK.  

Basically, you are just holding his money because you want to.  You have stated he has broken your TOS.  I am sure you have violated your own TOS when you have posted personal information about your users all over the web.

This is turning into a big fucking joke.

Get the fucking money to the lawyers so us bitcoinica users can get our money back.  That's it.  

Obviously you have a very poor understanding of current international financial legislation. Zhou Tong, by his own admission (not according to us), exchange this funds for "a friend". If you suggest we are holding his funds solely based on the fact that he broke our TOS, you obviously did not take the time to read what I have posted. We are LEGALLY obligated to freeze his funds.


what will actually happen if he doesn't react to these money laundering accusations? (since his plan is to take the amount frozen just from Chens funds) Will it be frozen forever?

I openly boycott the Bitcoinica Consultancy team or Intersango: Donald Norman, Patrick Strateman and Amir Taaki
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July 30, 2012, 04:31:47 PM
 #564

I trust you guys, but are acting extremely unprofessional.  I will personally never use your service in fear of you publicly going after users in this format.  From an outsiders perspective you really look terrible.  I'm serious.  ZT looks bad, but so do you.

You have stated ZT is the prime suspect?  In what?  Is there even a fucking police report?  He is the prime suspect according to you, AFAIK.  

Basically, you are just holding his money because you want to.  You have stated he has broken your TOS.  I am sure you have violated your own TOS when you have posted personal information about your users all over the web.

This is turning into a big fucking joke.

Get the fucking money to the lawyers so us bitcoinica users can get our money back.  That's it.  

Say what you will but if Roberto and Mark hadn't done this, we would be no further towards recovering funds. So far Zhou has managed to transfer 15k BTC out of 20k BTC and 140k USD promised.

If anything you should be thanking AurumXchange and MTGox for getting to the bottom of this.
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July 30, 2012, 04:38:10 PM
 #565

I trust you guys, but are acting extremely unprofessional.  I will personally never use your service in fear of you publicly going after users in this format.  From an outsiders perspective you really look terrible.  I'm serious.  ZT looks bad, but so do you.

You have stated ZT is the prime suspect?  In what?  Is there even a fucking police report?  He is the prime suspect according to you, AFAIK.  

Basically, you are just holding his money because you want to.  You have stated he has broken your TOS.  I am sure you have violated your own TOS when you have posted personal information about your users all over the web.

This is turning into a big fucking joke.

Get the fucking money to the lawyers so us bitcoinica users can get our money back.  That's it.  

Say what you will but if Roberto and Mark hadn't done this, we would be no further towards recovering funds. So far Zhou has managed to transfer 15k BTC out of 20k BTC and 140k USD promised.

If anything you should be thanking AurumXchange and MTGox for getting to the bottom of this.

+1 After having experienced the continued inaction of Bitcoinica - Seeing these services work together and achieve results is a breath of fresh air. Kudos!
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July 30, 2012, 04:40:41 PM
 #566

Dude, instead of lashing out and requesting information in bold lettering. Have you even emailed or called Patrick to ask him?
Hi Charlie, I'm not lashing out at anyone except for perhaps Zhou. I think it is much better that Patrick posts here himself rather than me asking for a private response then posting it here. Others could accuse me of making it up or even mis-quoting. The words are much better from the legally-qualified horses mouth.

I can assure you that neither one of us needs the headache, the personal time invested, nor the lawyer bills we are getting regarding this issue, not to mention have our company's name dragged through this circus. Please be considerate to that fact.
Roberto, while I appreciate the sentiment and believe that you have acted admirably, what you describe is an inevitable and repetitive consequence of operating a bitcoin exchange. Your profit margin is the reason that you are involved with bitcoin and thus bear responsibility to persue the criminals who use you. It has no doubt been a stressful time, but it was your choice to enter the market and take on that responsibility. Please don't take this as an insult, because it isn't. I'm just stating the fact of the matter. Gotta take the rough with the smooth.

So far Zhou has managed to transfer 15k BTC out of 20k BTC and 140k USD promised.
This is what I don't get. If "Chen" admitted guilt and agreed to pay up, why does there even need to be seperate transactions? Surely one transaction equalling the total amount is all that's required? Is this yet another delaying tactic by Zhou or a means of keeping the dogs at bay ("dont kill me now, I can get the rest of the money")?


BB.
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July 30, 2012, 04:42:49 PM
 #567

Is this yet another delaying tactic by Zhou or a means of keeping the dogs at bay ("dont kill me now, I can get the rest of the money")?

This is how I see it.  He figures the longer he can stall, the more people will forget and less likely he will be held accountable for theft.

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July 30, 2012, 04:43:26 PM
 #568

This is what I don't get. If "Chen" admitted guilt and agreed to pay up, why does there even need to be seperate transactions? Surely one transaction equalling the total amount is all that's required? Is this yet another delaying tactic by Zhou or a means of keeping the dogs at bay ("dont kill me now, I can get the rest of the money")?
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July 30, 2012, 05:01:21 PM
 #569

Dude, instead of lashing out and requesting information in bold lettering. Have you even emailed or called Patrick to ask him?
Hi Charlie, I'm not lashing out at anyone except for perhaps Zhou. I think it is much better that Patrick posts here himself rather than me asking for a private response then posting it here. Others could accuse me of making it up or even mis-quoting. The words are much better from the legally-qualified horses mouth.

I can assure you that neither one of us needs the headache, the personal time invested, nor the lawyer bills we are getting regarding this issue, not to mention have our company's name dragged through this circus. Please be considerate to that fact.
Roberto, while I appreciate the sentiment and believe that you have acted admirably, what you describe is an inevitable and repetitive consequence of operating a bitcoin exchange. Your profit margin is the reason that you are involved with bitcoin and thus bear responsibility to persue the criminals who use you. It has no doubt been a stressful time, but it was your choice to enter the market and take on that responsibility. Please don't take this as an insult, because it isn't. I'm just stating the fact of the matter. Gotta take the rough with the smooth.

So far Zhou has managed to transfer 15k BTC out of 20k BTC and 140k USD promised.
This is what I don't get. If "Chen" admitted guilt and agreed to pay up, why does there even need to be seperate transactions? Surely one transaction equalling the total amount is all that's required? Is this yet another delaying tactic by Zhou or a means of keeping the dogs at bay ("dont kill me now, I can get the rest of the money")?


BB.

Hey,

Sorry if I seemed agressive as well, the amount of trolling that goes on here, it's hard to differentiate.

1- Your 100% correct. Patrick has been gathering all the details so he can answer questions like his next course of action, legal standing, wallet ownership, ect.
Him and I have a call in exactly 3 minutes from now to discuss it, and he will make a forum/blog post about it in a little bit.

2- Of course we are looking out for our profit margins. However, everything we do is for the greater of Bitcoin. In order for our businesses to succeed Bitcoin needs to succeed and we use our Businesses as front line fighters for Bitcoin. If we have a legal team, than we will use it for the greater good of Bitcoin. MtGox, AurumXChange, Bitinstant and other companies pay salaries to put food on the table of it's team members and their families. This is survival for us.

-Charlie

Bitcoin pioneer. An apostle of Satoshi Nakamoto. A crusader for a new, better, tech-driven society. A dreamer.

More about me: http://CharlieShrem.com
dancingnancy
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July 30, 2012, 05:17:47 PM
 #570

I trust you guys, but are acting extremely unprofessional.  I will personally never use your service in fear of you publicly going after users in this format.  From an outsiders perspective you really look terrible.  I'm serious.  ZT looks bad, but so do you.

Let me make this absolutely clear: If you are intending to launder funds, or use our services and/or products for any kind of illegal activities, by all means, NEVER use our company, or they WILL be consequences. We are a serious company that have registrations, licenses and agreements to protect and uphold. We have been in business since 2007 (way before bitcoin even existed) and I can assure you this isn't our first rodeo. I am sure Bitinstant and MtGox, or any other reputable company will tell you the same: If you use our services for illegal activities, there will be consequences.

I understand.  You can't launder money.  OK, like every country has a law basically pertaining to this.  So what though, seriously?
So, whenever you find something SUSPICIOUS, you feel the need to publicly transcribe this information all over the internet?  I am not saying that his money cannot be scrutinized, but why does that give you the right to relay this information over the internet to the public?

I am not saying what ZT was right or wrong.  Because I honestly have no idea who is telling the truth at this point.  
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July 30, 2012, 05:28:20 PM
 #571

It's clear aurumxchange likely isn't. If an investigation is actually because of money laundering, it should never have been posted publicly.
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July 30, 2012, 05:33:13 PM
 #572

Patrick's contact details:

website: engagelegal.com
email: patrick@engagelegal.com
tel: US 703.608.8864
The website appears to show a technical consultancy with nothing to suggest that its staff are legally qualified or licensed to practice law in the United States?

On what authority does this entity operate in a legal capacity?

Is it even a registered company?

The domain was registered in June 2011. When exactly did this outfit begin operation?

BB.

I'm glad somebody else is looking into this. I opted to not touch this with a ten-foot pole. I'm sadly taken aback as to where all this leads, let alone stems from. It has forced me to be very careful as to what I post.

~Bruno~
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July 30, 2012, 05:34:46 PM
 #573

Patrick's contact details:

website: engagelegal.com
email: patrick@engagelegal.com
tel: US 703.608.8864
The website appears to show a technical consultancy with nothing to suggest that its staff are legally qualified or licensed to practice law in the United States?

On what authority does this entity operate in a legal capacity?

Is it even a registered company?

The domain was registered in June 2011. When exactly did this outfit begin operation?

BB.

I'm glad somebody else is looking into this. I opted to not touch this with a ten-foot pole. I'm sadly taken aback as to where all this leads, let alone stems from. It has forced me to be very careful as to what I post.

~Bruno~


See my response in an earlier page about this.

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July 30, 2012, 05:39:04 PM
 #574

It's clear aurumxchange likely isn't. If an investigation is actually because of money laundering, it should never have been posted publicly.

And you know that for a fact? Did you even read Dominican AML law?
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July 30, 2012, 05:51:02 PM
 #575

Is this yet another delaying tactic by Zhou or a means of keeping the dogs at bay ("dont kill me now, I can get the rest of the money")?
Well, I think you confuse something here. The consultancy kept our funds for a few months, doing basically nothing. Then ZT stepped up and refunded some 5kBTC. Now within days he made more funds available. In my point of view, ZT is the only one that does actually pay back something. If some BitBuster was repaid from this consultancy - fine, however, for all of us still waiting, ZT seems the only one that does not hide behind some delay tactics. Hell, I think, ZT should, if he can, hack the current account of this lame consultancy, so that the funds can be repaid.
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July 30, 2012, 05:53:18 PM
 #576

Perhaps it is not proper thread, but since all are active here .... I have an idea. How to do that would not have to pay the scammers? (fake claim) To reduce the unreasonable claim funds.

 Just ask them to rewrite all those who have already filled in the form of claims. (Fill out the form again.) I know it sounds silly, but believe me, it will have a very strong effect. Up to 70% of fake claims will be rejected as demanding "initial data inconsistency"

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July 30, 2012, 06:13:34 PM
 #577

Perhaps it is not proper thread, but since all are active here .... I have an idea. How to do that would not have to pay the scammers? (fake claim) To reduce the unreasonable claim funds.

 Just ask them to rewrite all those who have already filled in the form of claims. (Fill out the form again.) I know it sounds silly, but believe me, it will have a very strong effect. Up to 70% of fake claims will be rejected as demanding "initial data inconsistency"

it's broken...

https://claims.bitcoinica.com/

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July 30, 2012, 07:10:48 PM
 #578

Well, I think you confuse something here. The consultancy kept our funds for a few months, doing basically nothing. Then ZT stepped up and refunded some 5kBTC. Now within days he made more funds available. In my point of view, ZT is the only one that does actually pay back something. If some BitBuster was repaid from this consultancy - fine, however, for all of us still waiting, ZT seems the only one that does not hide behind some delay tactics. Hell, I think, ZT should, if he can, hack the current account of this lame consultancy, so that the funds can be repaid.

I think it is you who are confused.  Ryan Zhou was the one that "hacked" into the site in the first place, stole the coins and destroyed the database.  It is because the database was destroyed that they are having a hard time paying people back.  ZT can't be praised for anything, because he alone willfully caused this mess.

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July 30, 2012, 07:14:12 PM
 #579

Well, I think you confuse something here. The consultancy kept our funds for a few months, doing basically nothing. Then ZT stepped up and refunded some 5kBTC. Now within days he made more funds available. In my point of view, ZT is the only one that does actually pay back something. If some BitBuster was repaid from this consultancy - fine, however, for all of us still waiting, ZT seems the only one that does not hide behind some delay tactics. Hell, I think, ZT should, if he can, hack the current account of this lame consultancy, so that the funds can be repaid.

I think it is you who are confused.  Ryan Zhou was the one that "hacked" into the site in the first place, stole the coins and destroyed the database.  It is because the database was destroyed that they are having a hard time paying people back.  ZT can't be praised for anything, because he alone willfully caused this mess.
There is some evidence that Zhou stole the Mt. Gox funds. I will not deny that.

But there is zero evidence, and quite a bit of evidence in the contrary, that Zhou was involved in the Rackspace hack. What makes you believe that?
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July 30, 2012, 07:15:13 PM
 #580

Well, I think you confuse something here. The consultancy kept our funds for a few months, doing basically nothing. Then ZT stepped up and refunded some 5kBTC. Now within days he made more funds available. In my point of view, ZT is the only one that does actually pay back something. If some BitBuster was repaid from this consultancy - fine, however, for all of us still waiting, ZT seems the only one that does not hide behind some delay tactics. Hell, I think, ZT should, if he can, hack the current account of this lame consultancy, so that the funds can be repaid.

I think it is you who are confused.  Ryan Zhou was the one that "hacked" into the site in the first place, stole the coins and destroyed the database.  It is because the database was destroyed that they are having a hard time paying people back.  ZT can't be praised for anything, because he alone willfully caused this mess.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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