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Author Topic: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack  (Read 124628 times)
dree12
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July 31, 2012, 03:34:21 PM
 #661

No. An OR statement does not imply that it is all at once. That is an AND statement.

In fact, in speech and writing, an OR statement is also often exclusive; i.e., it implies that it is not two or more of the terms at once. This isn't the case here, but your conclusion is still fallacious.

In fact you're clueless. I can use ANY of the following: friend, associate, business partner.
What is your native language?

If I define a wubble to be a bubble or a flubble, I cannot assume that a wubble is a bubble and a flubble. I also cannot assume that a wubble is a bubble, nor can I assume that a wubble is a flubble. This is the magic of OR.

You cannot just simply use ANY of the options you listed; there is uncertainly as to which one it is. It is therefore impossible to prove that "friend" is correct from the given definition.

What is your native language?

Your logic is keep failing you. If there is uncertainty then I can use any, especially if I believe that it was an imaginary friend.

Vampire is the thief, a 37-year old, a male, a female, or something else. There is uncertainty here. Therefore I can assert that vampire is the thief.

That is fallacious logic at best.
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July 31, 2012, 03:37:28 PM
 #662

I'm not talking about permission from Bitcoinica/Intersango, I'm talking about a legal warrant that allows him to do what would otherwise be considered a criminal act. On what legal authority is he operating?

BB.

None!

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July 31, 2012, 03:38:18 PM
 #663

No. An OR statement does not imply that it is all at once. That is an AND statement.

In fact, in speech and writing, an OR statement is also often exclusive; i.e., it implies that it is not two or more of the terms at once. This isn't the case here, but your conclusion is still fallacious.

In fact you're clueless. I can use ANY of the following: friend, associate, business partner.
What is your native language?

If I define a wubble to be a bubble or a flubble, I cannot assume that a wubble is a bubble and a flubble. I also cannot assume that a wubble is a bubble, nor can I assume that a wubble is a flubble. This is the magic of OR.

You cannot just simply use ANY of the options you listed; there is uncertainly as to which one it is. It is therefore impossible to prove that "friend" is correct from the given definition.

What is your native language?

Your logic is keep failing you. If there is uncertainty then I can use any, especially if I believe that it was an imaginary friend.

Vampire is the thief, a 37-year old, a male, a female, or something else. There is uncertainty here. Therefore I can assert that vampire is the thief.

That is fallacious logic at best.

Vampire also exists on this forum.  You are not comparing apples to apples.  Chen exists no where except in Zhou's mind.

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July 31, 2012, 03:38:49 PM
 #664

Chen = Zhou.  There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.
While I agree, one could also state
Quote
mlawrence = Zhou.  There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.
or even
Quote
mlawrence = phantomcircit.  There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.
or the most probable one
Quote
mlawrence = Chen.  There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.


Except none of their accounts were used. Zhou's account was used.

And there is no evidence linking mlawrence to the theft of half a million dollars either.   Wink
Actually there is. While ZT at least tries to pay back the funds, the overall impression from mlawrence (and a few others) is that he tries to prevent exactly this from happening. Now the only one in the world that does not like a payback to happen is the actually thief himself, so...
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July 31, 2012, 03:39:32 PM
 #665

No. An OR statement does not imply that it is all at once. That is an AND statement.

In fact, in speech and writing, an OR statement is also often exclusive; i.e., it implies that it is not two or more of the terms at once. This isn't the case here, but your conclusion is still fallacious.

In fact you're clueless. I can use ANY of the following: friend, associate, business partner.
What is your native language?

If I define a wubble to be a bubble or a flubble, I cannot assume that a wubble is a bubble and a flubble. I also cannot assume that a wubble is a bubble, nor can I assume that a wubble is a flubble. This is the magic of OR.

You cannot just simply use ANY of the options you listed; there is uncertainly as to which one it is. It is therefore impossible to prove that "friend" is correct from the given definition.

What is your native language?

Your logic is keep failing you. If there is uncertainty then I can use any, especially if I believe that it was an imaginary friend.

Vampire is the thief, a 37-year old, a male, a female, or something else. There is uncertainty here. Therefore I can assert that vampire is the thief.

That is fallacious logic at best.

You can make this assertion, but you cannot back it up. I am tried of catching you, it's fun and all - not the point of this thread.
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July 31, 2012, 03:40:12 PM
 #666

Actually there is. While ZT at least tries to pay back the funds, the overall impression from mlawrence (and a few others) is that he tries to prevent exactly this from happening. Now the only one in the world that does not like a payback to happen is the actually thief himself, so...

... that's why ZT has only returned 15k of the 40k bitcoins he has stolen?

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July 31, 2012, 03:42:38 PM
 #667

You can make this assertion, but you cannot back it up. I am tried of catching you, it's fun and all - not the point of this thread.

Agreed.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95738.0

Zhou Tong (or Chen) is the one who stole the coins.  All the word play and logic bombs in the world cannot change that, so it's not worth arguing over any more.  The discussion should be how to get the rest of the coins back from Zhou Tong, since he sent back 15k already.

He still owes 25,000 BTC - about $200,000 USD.   Sad

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July 31, 2012, 03:44:28 PM
 #668

Quote from: Several angry users
Lots of ramble and speculation

Please, can we allow this thread to stay on the topic of Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack?

Thank you very much.
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July 31, 2012, 03:44:44 PM
 #669

Actually there is. While ZT at least tries to pay back the funds, the overall impression from mlawrence (and a few others) is that he tries to prevent exactly this from happening. Now the only one in the world that does not like a payback to happen is the actually thief himself, so...

... that's why ZT has only returned 15k of the 40k bitcoins he has stolen?
Maybe he did not steal this himself, but somebody else, lets call him Chen, did it, and ZT takes time to get it back?

Chen exists no where except in Zhou's mind.
Right now only Zhou knows for sure, if Chen really exists, so your knowledge would prove that you are Zhou Wink
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July 31, 2012, 03:45:11 PM
 #670

I have a feeling Mr. Tong is going to default on this. Is there any evidence that there is enough funds to cover all the claims?

Don't you worry about Bitcoin, let me worry about Bitcoin.

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July 31, 2012, 03:46:57 PM
 #671

I have a feeling Mr. Tong is going to default on this. Is there any evidence that there is enough funds to cover all the claims?

Zhou is actually his surname.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81581.0

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dree12
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July 31, 2012, 03:48:01 PM
 #672

This is a classic example of victim blaming.

1. Attack Zhou Tong based on little evidence
2. When Zhou Tong says he's feeling like a victim, blame him more
3. Zhou Tong produces proof, deny the proof
4. Produce falsifiable evidence, deny falsifiability
5. Continue attacking the victim despite calls to stop
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July 31, 2012, 03:48:47 PM
 #673

1. Attack Zhou Tong based on little evidence

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95738.0

(I know this wont change your mind - but I post it for future readers who find this through a search engine)

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dree12
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July 31, 2012, 03:52:17 PM
 #674

1. Attack Zhou Tong based on little evidence

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95738.0

(I know this wont change your mind - but I post it for future readers who find this through a search engine)
Do you think I could possibly have missed that? It being the single point of attack for all my arguments?

In response, I post this equally likely and more credible response: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95795.0

But I know: it won't change your mind.
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July 31, 2012, 03:52:30 PM
 #675

http://www.dustincurtis.com/about.html

Quote
I live in San Francisco and New York City. I like sushi, the sky, and the brain. I want to become a better writer.

From the guy who tried to sell lifepath.me on eBay and which Zhou Tong owns. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=140610305563&nma=true&rt=nc&si=mAWggEYKpH4g2H7aZLAFESK6gGA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc#ht_3383wt_1185

Quote
Domain ID:D1520284-ME
Domain Name:LIFEPATH.ME
Domain Create Date:13-Oct-2010 11:46:24 UTC
Domain Last Updated Date:18-Jul-2012 21:00:03 UTC
Domain Expiration Date:13-Oct-2013 11:46:24 UTC
Last Transferred Date:19-May-2012 17:43:57 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:eNom Inc R32-ME
Created by:GoDaddy.com, LLC R41-ME
Last Updated by Registrar:Afilias R54-ME
Domain Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:876c8456f832ebd1
Registrant Name:Tong Zhou
Registrant Organization:Zhou Tong
Registrant Address:PO Box 465
Registrant Address2:
Registrant Address3:
Registrant City:Carlton South
Registrant State/Province:VIC
Registrant Country/Economy:AU
Registrant Postal Code:3053
Registrant Phone:+61.390157926
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant E-mail:domain@zhoutong.com
Admin ID:876c8456f832ebd1
Admin Name:Tong Zhou
Admin Organization:Zhou Tong
Admin Address:PO Box 465
Admin Address2:
Admin Address3:
Admin City:Carlton South
Admin State/Province:VIC
Admin Country/Economy:AU
Admin Postal Code:3053
Admin Phone:+61.390157926
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin E-mail:domain@zhoutong.com
Tech ID:876c8456f832ebd1
Tech Name:Tong Zhou
Tech Organization:Zhou Tong
Tech Address:PO Box 465
Tech Address2:
Tech Address3:
Tech City:Carlton South
Tech State/Province:VIC
Tech Country/Economy:AU
Tech Postal Code:3053
Tech Phone:+61.390157926
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July 31, 2012, 04:01:06 PM
 #676

this whole thing here is much more better than any movie ever, except Matrix I and Inception...  Grin

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July 31, 2012, 04:05:03 PM
 #677

This is a classic example of victim blaming.

Zhou has still not been able to explain selling LR using his own QQ account from the LR account Zhou said "the hacker" created.

You conveniently pass this over every time. Your shilling is beyond obvious - I just can't figure out why.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95795.msg1063838#msg1063838

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95795.msg1063850#msg1063850

So, I have done a deal "for a friend" on AurumXchange using my own account.

And I have also done a deal "for a friend" on QQ using a friend's account?

Both happened before I had any clue of the investigation.

I did the deals, but all in much larger amounts with my own account.

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July 31, 2012, 04:07:29 PM
 #678

It looks like Zhou Tong has a pantent. Quite a feat for a 17 year old.

Quote
US 8,213,196 B2   

POWER SUPPLY CIRCUIT WITH PROTECTING CIRCUIT HAVING SWITCH ELEMENT FOR PROTECTING PULSE WIDTH MODULATION CIRCUIT
He-Kang Zhou, Shenzhen (China); and Tong Zhou, Shenzhen (China)
Assigned to Innocom Technology (Shenzhen) Co., Ltd., Shenzhen (China); and Chimei Innolux Corporation, Miaoli County (Taiwan)
Filed on Dec. 29, 2008, as Appl. No. 12/317,865.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week27/OG/html/1380-1/US08213196-20120703.html

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
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July 31, 2012, 04:08:39 PM
 #679

It looks like Zhou Tong has a pantent. Quite a feat for a 17 year old.

Quote
US 8,213,196 B2   

POWER SUPPLY CIRCUIT WITH PROTECTING CIRCUIT HAVING SWITCH ELEMENT FOR PROTECTING PULSE WIDTH MODULATION CIRCUIT
He-Kang Zhou, Shenzhen (China); and Tong Zhou, Shenzhen (China)
Assigned to Innocom Technology (Shenzhen) Co., Ltd., Shenzhen (China); and Chimei Innolux Corporation, Miaoli County (Taiwan)
Filed on Dec. 29, 2008, as Appl. No. 12/317,865.
http://www.uspto.gov/web/patents/patog/week27/OG/html/1380-1/US08213196-20120703.html
"Zhou Tong" is like "John Smith" around here, from what I gather, so that could be pretty much anyone.

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July 31, 2012, 04:18:19 PM
 #680

This is a classic example of victim blaming.

Zhou has still not been able to explain selling LR using his own QQ account from the LR account Zhou said "the hacker" created.

You conveniently pass this over every time. Your shilling is beyond obvious - I just can't figure out why.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95795.msg1063838#msg1063838

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95795.msg1063850#msg1063850

So, I have done a deal "for a friend" on AurumXchange using my own account.

And I have also done a deal "for a friend" on QQ using a friend's account?

Both happened before I had any clue of the investigation.

I did the deals, but all in much larger amounts with my own account.
Excellent FUD you are spreading here. Here's a list:

Fear
Quote
Zhou has still not been able to explain selling LR using his own QQ account from the LR account Zhou said "the hacker" created.

Uncertainty
Quote
Occam's Razor says that the simplest explanation is neither that someone, for no reason, created a screenshot where your QQ-account would start selling LR that when the transactions were made turned out to come from the LR account you yourself stated that the hacker created.

Doubt
Quote
The transactions you've so far claimed are completely unrelated and "for a friend", match up the LR account to information released much later by aurumxchange.

You have been just as much a shill as I have been. You are shilling because it is your rational opinion. This is mine.
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