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Author Topic: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack  (Read 124457 times)
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July 28, 2012, 11:46:10 PM
 #281

I know why Zhou tong may be worried about an investigation.

----
In China, serious cases of corruption are punished by the death penalty.
During the 1980s, "economic crimes" such as bribery, drug-trafficking, and embezzlement were added to the legal code.
Capital punishment in China can be imposed on crimes against national symbols and treasures, such as theft of cultural relics.
Capital punishment is also imposed on inchoate offenses, that is, attempted crimes which are not actually fully carried out, including repeat offenses such as attempted fraud.
A form of execution called Ling Chi (slow slicing), or death by/of a thousand cuts, was used in China until its abolition in 1905.
Current methods of capitol punishment in China are lethal injection and shooting. Lethal injection is more commonly used for "economic crimes".
Execution vans are unique to China, however.
----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
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July 28, 2012, 11:55:31 PM
 #282

especially in a totalitarian system like China.

Zhou Tong is in Australia.

Seeking assistance from a cybercrime division in Australia, I imagine is just as easy as calling the local police, and explaining that you need a cybercrime division to help you. They will guide you through the process.
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July 29, 2012, 12:01:49 AM
 #283

Yes, I of course can do this, if I ever wanted to.

My advice was given to the community, and those who want to see their money again.

If you don't care about Bitcoinica's claim process anymore and just want to watch the drama, then your advice is valid.

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July 29, 2012, 12:02:48 AM
 #284

I know why Zhou tong may be worried about an investigation.

----
In China, serious cases of corruption are punished by the death penalty.
During the 1980s, "economic crimes" such as bribery, drug-trafficking, and embezzlement were added to the legal code.
Capital punishment in China can be imposed on crimes against national symbols and treasures, such as theft of cultural relics.
Capital punishment is also imposed on inchoate offenses, that is, attempted crimes which are not actually fully carried out, including repeat offenses such as attempted fraud.
A form of execution called Ling Chi (slow slicing), or death by/of a thousand cuts, was used in China until its abolition in 1905.
Current methods of capitol punishment in China are lethal injection and shooting. Lethal injection is more commonly used for "economic crimes".
Execution vans are unique to China, however.
----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

The thing is that jurisdiction isn't determined by the nationality of the person who committed the crime but by where the crime took place.  Mr relic collector may have to worry about having broken Chinese law, but I'm not seeing what jurisdiction China would have over Zhou if he was found to be involved in the MtGox breach or the laundering of funds from that breach.

Also, Australia will not extradite in cases where the death penalty or other human rights abuses are on the table.

And yeah, if you wanted to start an investigation from the Australian end, you'd call Victoria Police.  

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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July 29, 2012, 12:11:08 AM
 #285

I know why Zhou tong may be worried about an investigation.

----
In China, serious cases of corruption are punished by the death penalty.
During the 1980s, "economic crimes" such as bribery, drug-trafficking, and embezzlement were added to the legal code.
Capital punishment in China can be imposed on crimes against national symbols and treasures, such as theft of cultural relics.
Capital punishment is also imposed on inchoate offenses, that is, attempted crimes which are not actually fully carried out, including repeat offenses such as attempted fraud.
A form of execution called Ling Chi (slow slicing), or death by/of a thousand cuts, was used in China until its abolition in 1905.
Current methods of capitol punishment in China are lethal injection and shooting. Lethal injection is more commonly used for "economic crimes".
Execution vans are unique to China, however.
----
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Punishment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China

The thing is that jurisdiction isn't determined by the nationality of the person who committed the crime but by where the crime took place.  Mr relic collector may have to worry about having broken Chinese law, but I'm not seeing what jurisdiction China would have over Zhou if he was found to be involved in the MtGox breach or the laundering of funds from that breach.

Also, Australia will not extradite in cases where the death penalty or other human rights abuses are on the table.

And yeah, if you wanted to start an investigation from the Australian end, you'd call Victoria Police.  

The hack happened during my holiday in Singapore,  how?

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July 29, 2012, 12:12:28 AM
 #286

So, "Chen", from China, breaking into an Australian companies computers, or accessing Japanese computers, is not committing any "economic crime" when stealing money or credit card data from them.

In what country was the Bitcoinica server hosted?

For Bitcoin to be a true global currency the value of BTC needs always to rise.
If BTC became the global currency & money supply = 100 Trillion then ⊅1.00 BTC = $4,761,904.76.
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July 29, 2012, 12:22:30 AM
 #287

So, "Chen", from China, breaking into an Australian companies computers, or accessing Japanese computers, is not committing any "economic crime" when stealing money or credit card data from them.

In what country was the Bitcoinica server hosted?

As I understand the story, Chen was responsible for the MtGox breach and for attempting to launder funds through AurumXchange and Liberty Reserve.  Those would the original jurisdictions for starting investigations, but the final jurisdiction would depend a great deal on what was discovered during the investigation and which nation was willing to accept jurisdiction.

"Where" a computer crime occurred can be a complex issue to decide.  There's a high Court precedent here in Australia which means that it's not restricted to the location of a server.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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July 29, 2012, 12:33:28 AM
 #288

http://www.police.govt.nz/service/financial/
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July 29, 2012, 12:36:19 AM
 #289

In a recent email,  Zhou has promised to return 20,000 BTC and $140,000 USD from the hacker.

Myself,  Tihan Seale and several other creditors have asked that Zhou immediately transfer the funds to Patrick Murck.
Patrick Murck is an experienced attorney who has done work for Bitinstant.com and coinlabs.com
He will hold the funds until a proper method to refund them to the proper owners can be determined.

Zhou initially was asking for the Intersango team of:
Patrick Strateman
Amir Taki
Donald Norman

to verify that they are ok with Patrick Murck  holding the funds until they can be refunded to the correct owners.

I think all the creditors can agree that we would rather have the Bitinstant / Coinlabs attorney hold the funds rather than whoever has them now.
Patrick Strateman has blocked me on Skype,  and does not reply to my emails.
Donald and Amir have been out of touch for weeks.


Patrick Strateman, Amir, and Donald, for the good of the Bitcoin community tell Zhou to release the funds to Patrick Murck NOW!

This way there will be no doubt whatsoever about what should be done with the funds today.

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July 29, 2012, 12:49:20 AM
 #290

In a recent email,  Zhou has promised to return 20,000 BTC and $140,000 USD from the hacker.

Myself,  Tihan Seale and several other creditors have asked that Zhou immediately transfer the funds to Patrick Murck.
Patrick Murck is the staff attorney for Bitinstant.com and coinlabs.com
He will hold the funds until a proper method to refund them to the proper owners can be determined.

While Bitcoinica's approval would be nice, I doubt it's actually needed strictly speaking - no-one's likely to get into any trouble for having the funds transferred into trust while their fate is decided.  Waiting for Patrick, Amir and Donald to agree on something merely delays the process of the funds being recovered and placed in safe-keeping.  If Patrick Murck is willing to accept the funds in trust without the explicit approval of Bitcoinica, then the transfer should happen as soon as possible.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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July 29, 2012, 01:02:41 AM
 #291

In a recent email,  Zhou has promised to return 20,000 BTC and $140,000 USD from the hacker.

Myself,  Tihan Seale and several other creditors have asked that Zhou immediately transfer the funds to Patrick Murck.
Patrick Murck is the staff attorney for Bitinstant.com and coinlabs.com
He will hold the funds until a proper method to refund them to the proper owners can be determined.

Zhou initially was asking for the Intersango team of:
Patrick Strateman
Amir Taki
Donald Norman

to verify that they are ok with Patrick Murck  holding the funds until they can be refunded to the correct owners.

I think all the creditors can agree that we would rather have the Bitinstant / Coinlabs attorney hold the funds rather than whoever has them now.
Patrick Strateman has blocked me on Skype,  and does not reply to my emails.
Donald and Amir have been out of touch for weeks.


Patrick Strateman, Amir, and Donald, for the good of the Bitcoin community tell Zhou to release the funds to Patrick Murck NOW!

This way there will be no doubt whatsoever about what should be done with the funds today.

I am definitely OK with that. I trust Charlie and team.

I agree with this, and will get on this ASAP

The funds will be transferred into a trust bank account while the legal stuff is sorted.

Will update the community soon.

-Charlie

If Patrick Murck is willing to accept the funds in trust without the explicit approval of Bitcoinica, then the transfer should happen as soon as possible.
If he is willing to accept the funds without the strict approval of Bitcoinica, he should be fired immediately and never allowed to act as an attorney ever again.

Yes, I don't think any attorney would accept almost half a million dollars because someone on skype told him to  Grin

Proper measures will be taken of course.

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July 29, 2012, 01:04:31 AM
 #292

If Patrick Murck is willing to accept the funds in trust without the explicit approval of Bitcoinica, then the transfer should happen as soon as possible.
If he is willing to accept the funds without the strict approval of Bitcoinica, he should be fired immediately and never allowed to act as an attorney ever again.

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July 29, 2012, 01:05:55 AM
 #293

Well as super convenient as all this is, good, I hope the majority of you get your money back.   Hopefully though, should that happen, you don't all just let it go.   Someone needs to go down for this.

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July 29, 2012, 01:14:27 AM
 #294

If Patrick Murck is willing to accept the funds in trust without the explicit approval of Bitcoinica, then the transfer should happen as soon as possible.
If he is willing to accept the funds without the strict approval of Bitcoinica, he should be fired immediately and never allowed to act as an attorney ever again.

Maged and Char are correct. I am happy members are collaborating to make the best of the situation.  Bad Zhou, , go sit in the corner for a timeout.
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July 29, 2012, 01:20:22 AM
 #295

Well as super convenient as all this is, good, I hope the majority of you get your money back.   Hopefully though, should that happen, you don't all just let it go.   Someone needs to go down for this.

I suspect that one of the things they want Bitcoinica to agree to is not to involve law enforcement - not that they've shown any inclination to do so to date.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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July 29, 2012, 01:29:28 AM
 #296

Well as super convenient as all this is, good, I hope the majority of you get your money back.   Hopefully though, should that happen, you don't all just let it go.   Someone needs to go down for this.

I suspect that one of the things they want Bitcoinica to agree to is not to involve law enforcement - not that they've shown any inclination to do so to date.

Yeah, no shit.  Amir posted an update thread or something along those lines a couple of days ago on this board.. I don't remember what it was exactly about..

So, cool, sounds like we are close to getting the coins back.  I hope Zhou Tong will be able to exonerate himself from this mess in the end.  Not sure really how many care who really took them at this point..
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July 29, 2012, 01:37:52 AM
 #297

I have agreed to transfer the funds to Patrick Murck and it'll take place within 24 hours.

To my best knowledge the total interest held by Patrick's clients far exceeds the requested funds at the moment, and Patrick has given me a statement acknowledging that the funds returned are strictly originated from stolen properties of Bitcoinica.

The relevant parties will also post a statement publicly upon receipt of 15,000 BTC, the first batch of funds.

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July 29, 2012, 01:46:54 AM
 #298

The relevant parties will also post a statement publicly upon receipt of 15,000 BTC, the first batch of funds.

terrific news
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July 29, 2012, 02:13:26 AM
 #299

I have agreed to transfer the funds to Patrick Murck and it'll take place within 24 hours.

To my best knowledge the total interest held by Patrick's clients far exceeds the requested funds at the moment, and Patrick has given me a statement acknowledging that the funds returned are strictly originated from stolen properties of Bitcoinica.

The relevant parties will also post a statement publicly upon receipt of 15,000 BTC, the first batch of funds.

I think everyone should give this man a round of applause for tracking down the hacker and arranging this, even while people were posting some serious slander about him.  A true professional here, folks.


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July 29, 2012, 02:18:04 AM
 #300

I have agreed to transfer the funds to Patrick Murck and it'll take place within 24 hours.

To my best knowledge the total interest held by Patrick's clients far exceeds the requested funds at the moment, and Patrick has given me a statement acknowledging that the funds returned are strictly originated from stolen properties of Bitcoinica.

The relevant parties will also post a statement publicly upon receipt of 15,000 BTC, the first batch of funds.

I think everyone should give this man a round of applause for tracking down the hacker and arranging this, even while people were posting some serious slander about him.  A true professional here, folks.


It would be very easy for him to track himself.
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