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Author Topic: Statement about the suspect of recent Bitcoinica hack  (Read 124657 times)
John (John K.)
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July 29, 2012, 05:30:22 PM
 #441

After reading a lot of posts, i actually suspect zhoutong is the thief who stolen money.
A lot of persons & posts told him to go to a lawyer & stop posting.
He never did it.
Simple reason is if he goes to a lawyer, he has to tell full story & even the lawyer can threaten him in future.
But their is also another important point he has to tell.
The Chinese guy who is a multimillionaire, a some what don, collecting antique items & speculating with it.
If he tells about the Chinese to lawyer then the Chinese must face court & criminal charges.

But anyone think that a relic collector & speculator, multimillionaire, doing underworld illegal things, will use the toughest method of money making which run by mostly computer professionals & geeks called Bitcoin, which cant be understood easily by others & cheat customers?

A true criminal will never use a way to cheat when he don't understand it.
Besides a true criminal always use & cheat people when he knows a lot about the thing he use to cheat.
Basically a successful criminal will never use a way he don't understand & depending on others.
A successful criminal always want to be independent then only he can cheat & never have assets or money in his/her name & also in his family persons names.

This means only one thing their is a real Chinese criminal, which was/is active now & when his name comes in tv or news wont feel happy.
If zhoutang goes to lawyer ,then the Chinese criminal has to face court.

Zhoutong USING the name of a well known criminal & if he tells this to his lawyer then the Chinese guy even try kill zhoutong for using his name in a crime which he never did.
Zhoutong is just fooling & cheating every one by telling daily new & new stories.

Zhoutong saw & heard many Bitcoin hacks & thought he can also steal & put it on an unknown hacker, so no one will find him & he will go free.
But many didn't believe his story, so he now connected a Chinese guy & building story around it.
If he goes to lawyer then he has to face Chinese guy & they wont let him go.
Zhoutong WILL NEVER go to lawyer & also never stop posting.

He is posting daily for only one reason.
If some one not replies or post , then the victims will get angry & try to find him by using detective methods or ip address.......
So, he daily replying & coming online & showing victims that he didn't vanished or absconded.
He know very clearly that until he response in forum, no one will do any harsh things, like finding him, threatening him, threatening parents....etc etc etc...

Also he know clearly that its not that easy to put against him for Bitcoin fraud, coz Bitcoin can't be understood easily by normal people.
So, if some one files case against him,. then the lawyer & police MUST have know what is Bitcoin & how he used it to cheat....

Also when i read all his posts, i don't think he is 17 year old person.
He using English language very well & not typing as a normal 17 year old do , like using smileys, acronyms....slang language, meme....
I think he must be at least 25+ years old to type with out using any normal 17 guys use to chat.
His replies shows a professionalism.


So, in total, zhoutong took money & try to cheat every one, but caught in the middle, now daily replying posts & keep on passing time.
He also MAY give back all the money, coz the money never went to any Chinese guy & if it goes legal then he not only has to face law, but also has to face an angry Chinese criminal gang.
He is just telling stories, so that no one will come & find his real place & real life. 

I don't find anything suspicious with his English proficiency. Kids nowadays in South East Asia countries such as Singapore and Malaysia usually have a strong command of the English language due to over-zealous parents preparing to send them overseas for their tertiary study. (especially the Chinese Undecided) In many cases, English have become their first language, and their command of their native languages have waned considerably due to the advent of English-based education.  Having studied at Singapore, Zhou Tong's English proficiency is not a wonder at all.

This is a classic framing. There is no reason to suspect otherwise.

When the breach of LastPass and bitcoinica's mtgox account was announced, I found it equally plausible that it was a random thief rather than an insider (ie one of Patrick/steve_bobs, zhoutong/stevejobs, etc.). It's totally possible that someone would have verified that info@bitcoinica.com is a LastPass account (this can be verified since LastPass leaks account registration status through the Forgot Password option), and then tried the MtGox API key after the source code leak.

But anyone could have done that, literally anyone (seriously, I kicked myself for having not tried it myself). But the particular person who did exploit this, also happened to be one of a very few people who also knew the password to zhoutong's stevejobs807@gmail.com. Of all the numerously possible potential thiefs who had equal opportunity to log-in to LastPass, the breach was in fact highly likely, all the info was there. And of all those possibilities, what is likelihood that the one person who first took advantage also knew zhoutong's private throw-away gmail password, so that they could frame him? The probability is highly suspicious.

I'd agree, there is a point here. I've mulled over the details carefully, but something seems amiss in this case.
The guy could just have used a simple throwaway anonymous email account, but yet used one of his anonymous email accounts (purportedly to be created just for 'sockpuppeting'), and hoping that they could frame him easily? If they wanted to frame him, using this anonymous email account (which had no obvious connection to him) seems like not the brightest thing ever. Also, if they wanted to frame him just to put the limelight off their backs, it would make no sense at all to own up after an hour or so of phone talks, plus they could just make an completely anonymous throwaway email account and have no existing connection to this case at all. Unless it was Zhou Tong being careless and reusing an old sockpuppet email that he thought to have no connections to himself...

I'm not implying anything here in this thread, I'm just voicing out my thoughts here. I'll be grateful if someone could pick out the errors in my train of thought.

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July 29, 2012, 05:51:28 PM
 #442

The stevejobs807@gmail.com mtgox account was only "verified" as in "click this link to confirm your e-mail address", not an MtGox identity-verified account. Zhou has a different mtgox account for his real identity, plus the bitcoinica mtgox account, at least. the stevejobs gmail was only used at mtgox a long time ago, this time it was used at AurumXchange.

It was Chris Heaslip's mtgox account which was used to buy more bitcoin with some of the $40k USD mtgox codes, and then withdraw the bitcoin.

Oh, sorry, I'm confused, it's really a long soap opera, my brain was fucked many times, I really wonder I ever get my money back? *begin_sarcasm br / (I understand that all involved want to wait for prices to 100 dollars per coin and \ or do not pay \ pay a gesture of vanity?)*and_sarcazm

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July 29, 2012, 05:57:57 PM
 #443

I have sent 15,000 BTC to an address provided by Patrick Murck.

He or one of his clients will later confirm the receipt of the funds and also the escrow/representation relationship.

The funds were sent to the Bitcoin address as requested: http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV.

Thank you Zhou for your cooperation.

I was asked by some of the creditors and interest holders in Bitcoinica, LP to broker this transaction. Steps are being taken to safely transfer the funds to Bitcoinica, LP so they may be distributed in a fair and expeditious manner to claimants.

Thank you,
Patrick Murck
Principal | Engage Legal PLLC
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July 29, 2012, 06:50:34 PM
 #444

This has yet to be addressed by Zhou.

There is no reason to suspect otherwise.

But there is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95738.msg1055632#msg1055632

Why was Zhou, through his own QQ-account, selling LR from the LR-account Zhou said "the hacker" created?

Occam's razor.

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July 29, 2012, 07:28:59 PM
 #445

There is more than a single person behind the user zhoutong. There is a ghost writer following the instructions of another person which dictates every answer. A single person could not express such astonishing English skills so well garnished with technical details.

There is enough contradictions in every response from zhoutong which indicates the information is consistently fictional.

Not one single character or description is factual.

A script is in place and the user zhoutong is only following the lines.
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July 29, 2012, 07:32:01 PM
 #446

There is more than a single person behind the user zhoutong. There is a ghost writer following the instructions of another person which dictates every answer. A single person could not express such astonishing English skills so well garnished with technical details.

There is enough contradictions in every response from zhoutong which indicates the information is consistently fictional.

Not one single character or description is factual.

A script is in place and the user zhoutong is only following the lines.
Please, be rational.

It seems that either people claim Zhou Tong and Chen Jinghai are one person, or that people claim Zhou Tong is more than one person. Wouldn't it be rational to claim that Zhou Tong is one person, and Chen Jinghai is another?
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July 29, 2012, 07:36:17 PM
 #447

Wouldn't it be rational to claim that Zhou Tong is one person, and Chen Jinghai is another?

There's no reason whatsoever to involve a second person called "Chen" in anything. The simplest explanation that fits all the known facts (including the LR-selling you, just like Zhou, seem to skip over) requires only ... Zhou.

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July 29, 2012, 08:18:49 PM
 #448

Please, be rational.

Of course...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95795.msg1062656#msg1062656


Currently I can recover at most 20,000 BTC and $140,000 from Chen Jianhai.

(...)

AFAIK he used Blockchain's mixing service, but we don't expect the fees to be returned because it's impossible to identify the funds anyway. (Also Blockchain has offered a 0.5% bonus for those people who facilitated the laundering.)

The average price he sold at should be around $7.2, including the exchanging fees. At this price point we are short $42,000. I'll see if it's possible to get this from Chen Jianhai, but quite unlikely. I doubt the effectiveness of Chinese police as well, because he's very likely to have "Guanxi" to deal with his financial activities (which I can't decide whether legal or not). In any case, he has been acting in a very naive way and I assume he still has freedom today because of his guanxi, not technical sophistication.

(...)
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July 29, 2012, 08:54:18 PM
 #449

Please, be rational.

Of course...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95795.msg1062656#msg1062656


Currently I can recover at most 20,000 BTC and $140,000 from Chen Jianhai.

(...)

AFAIK he used Blockchain's mixing service, but we don't expect the fees to be returned because it's impossible to identify the funds anyway. (Also Blockchain has offered a 0.5% bonus for those people who facilitated the laundering.)

The average price he sold at should be around $7.2, including the exchanging fees. At this price point we are short $42,000. I'll see if it's possible to get this from Chen Jianhai, but quite unlikely. I doubt the effectiveness of Chinese police as well, because he's very likely to have "Guanxi" to deal with his financial activities (which I can't decide whether legal or not). In any case, he has been acting in a very naive way and I assume he still has freedom today because of his guanxi, not technical sophistication.

(...)

What you are saying is not out of the realm of possibilities.

Does it matter at this point, though?  At least for us Bitcoinica users..
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July 29, 2012, 09:13:40 PM
 #450

Please, be rational.

Of course...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95795.msg1062656#msg1062656


Currently I can recover at most 20,000 BTC and $140,000 from Chen Jianhai.

(...)

AFAIK he used Blockchain's mixing service, but we don't expect the fees to be returned because it's impossible to identify the funds anyway. (Also Blockchain has offered a 0.5% bonus for those people who facilitated the laundering.)

The average price he sold at should be around $7.2, including the exchanging fees. At this price point we are short $42,000. I'll see if it's possible to get this from Chen Jianhai, but quite unlikely. I doubt the effectiveness of Chinese police as well, because he's very likely to have "Guanxi" to deal with his financial activities (which I can't decide whether legal or not). In any case, he has been acting in a very naive way and I assume he still has freedom today because of his guanxi, not technical sophistication.

(...)

"We" means community?

Who is short $42,000? The thief is never "short" of any money. It must be Bitcoinica customers.

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July 29, 2012, 09:16:43 PM
 #451

"We" means community?

Who is short $42,000? The thief is never "short" of any money. It must be Bitcoinica customers.

Do you think this community is going to forget that you spent $42,000 of their money?  I would suggest (not that you follow them) that you sell some of your assets and pay it back in FULL.

Edit:  You actually spent more than $42k on your trips and whatever, but you are lucky the price of bitcoins has climbed so much...

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July 29, 2012, 09:18:03 PM
 #452

Just gonna bump this.

This has yet to be addressed by Zhou.

There is no reason to suspect otherwise.

But there is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95738.msg1055632#msg1055632

Why was Zhou, through his own QQ-account, selling LR from the LR-account Zhou said "the hacker" created?

Occam's razor.

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July 29, 2012, 09:18:40 PM
 #453

There is no reason to suspect otherwise.

But there is: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=95738.msg1055632#msg1055632

Why was Zhou, through his own QQ-account, selling LR from the LR-account Zhou said "the hacker" created?

Occam's razor.


1. Look at the amount. I said I deal in upwards of $10,000, why would I sent $300+? I don't have to do that transaction even if I'm trying to launder money.

2. There's a "Private Payment" feature at Liberty Reserve, and it costs only $0.75. Am I that silly to save $0.75 and reveal the identity? At least I should use different accounts right?

It doesn't fit in my thinking at all. So the screenshot is either fake, or taken by someone who has actually dealt with Chen Jianhai.

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July 29, 2012, 09:20:02 PM
 #454

It doesn't fit in my thinking at all. So the screenshot is either fake, or taken by someone who has actually dealt with Chen Jianhai.

And the story continues...

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July 29, 2012, 09:25:08 PM
 #455

Exactly. The thief must have been someone who was not interested in Bitcoin. Zhou is likely not that person.

Fall of bitcoinica won't the fall of bitcoin. The market didn't even pay attention.



If Zhou is innocent the court will clear him.
You don't understand. Why else would the thief sell easy-to-launder BTC? Evidently, they are of little value to him. We know that Zhou Tong considers BTC valuable, and wouldn't be stupid enough to sell the ones he stole. Therefore, Zhou did not steal them.

This is a classic framing. There is no reason to suspect otherwise.

It's extremely difficult to value that which you stole! Easy come, easy go.
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July 29, 2012, 09:25:50 PM
 #456

I deal in upwards of $10,000

Must be nice Mr. Big Spender.  You also steal in amounts above that.

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July 29, 2012, 09:26:22 PM
 #457

And the story continues...
The peter griffin avatar suits you really well.

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July 29, 2012, 09:28:08 PM
 #458

And the story continues...
The peter griffin avatar suits you really well.

Thanks!  I do like licking the boobies!  Smiley

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July 29, 2012, 09:31:30 PM
 #459

Quote
Untitled
BY: A GUEST ON JUL 27TH, 2012  |  SYNTAX: NONE  |  SIZE: 0.03 KB  |  HITS: 12  |  EXPIRES: NEVER
DOWNLOAD  |  RAW  |  EMBED  |  REPORT ABUSE

    
1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV
create a new version of this paste RAW Paste Data

http://pastebin.com/YfTKKGvj

I have sent 15,000 BTC to an address provided by Patrick Murck.

He or one of his clients will later confirm the receipt of the funds and also the escrow/representation relationship.


Status: 4/unconfirmed, broadcast through 8 nodes
Date: 29/07/12 19:54
To: 1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV
Debit: -15000.00 BTC
Net amount: -15000.00 BTC
Transaction ID: b87922d693b3d3b66da385592a07147cf0b8f31f78057ebb212eb60745b58cf9

Quote
Summary
Size   1257 (bytes)
Received Time   2012-07-29 09:54:37
Included in blocks   191319 (2012-07-29 10:13:56 +19 minutes)
Confirmations:   93 confirmations
Relayed by ip   91.121.66.59 (whois)

http://blockchain.info/tx-index/13806782/b87922d693b3d3b66da385592a07147cf0b8f31f78057ebb212eb60745b58cf9


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July 29, 2012, 09:49:35 PM
 #460

The funds were sent to the Bitcoin address as requested: http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV.

Thank you Zhou for your cooperation.

I was asked by some of the creditors and interest holders in Bitcoinica, LP to broker this transaction. Steps are being taken to safely transfer the funds to Bitcoinica, LP so they may be distributed in a fair and expeditious manner to claimants.

Thank you,
Patrick Murck
Principal | Engage Legal PLLC

The address presumably indicated by Patrick Murck was used twice before receive the 15,000 BTC. This indicate the address was not produced exclusively to receive the "stolen funds".

Quote
3023856a550ebb4e9b79a5e80af926f608fddee0749648e70ee3a01bc0f4592c 2012-07-29 07:31:43

14cwNLGkm5PWj5ghdwxs8J84VuryU7h5tq

12FWKX4v6auTnzN1xmxji8SdmtcEC5QdCx

    1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV

6.461 BTC

4f47dcd9db5518dc829b9fb6ab0f99f33e54032edc4b508e0deb1f702dcb36b4 2012-07-27 20:41:31

1MSvjiRBFd4WgJusnQWZoyxjfcxbRZwjtE

    1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV

0.1 BTC

http://blockchain.info/address/1FqqBZnemCrcCDbz57Nk7LHLCN42hCHXEV
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