Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[Cnut237]

Ferrari needs to instantly change drivers.
There is not clear to them who is the first driver and who is the second in the team.
This is why drivers collide in so many races. The problem is administrative in the team and needs to be solved as soon as possible.

Ferrari need to get rid of Vettel right now. Unfortunately they can't.
Vettel used to be undisputed lead driver at Ferrari. He has since been outperformed by Leclerc, and has lost that number one status. To make things worse, he was apparently not even offered a new contract. He is driving for a team who have lost faith in him, and I'm sure given what's happened and the extremely poor car they have this year, he has lost faith in them, too.

Vettel is no longer a Ferrari driver, he is simply a driver in a Ferrari car. They don't want him there, he doesn't want to be there.

For the rest of this season he is driving purely for himself, which absolutely destroys any remaining team dynamic.

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[Naida_BR]

Ferrari needs to instantly change drivers.
There is not clear to them who is the first driver and who is the second in the team.
This is why drivers collide in so many races. The problem is administrative in the team and needs to be solved as soon as possible.

Ferrari need to get rid of Vettel right now. Unfortunately they can't.
Vettel used to be undisputed lead driver at Ferrari. He has since been outperformed by Leclerc, and has lost that number one status. To make things worse, he was apparently not even offered a new contract. He is driving for a team who have lost faith in him, and I'm sure given what's happened and the extremely poor car they have this year, he has lost faith in them, too.

Vettel is no longer a Ferrari driver, he is simply a driver in a Ferrari car. They don't want him there, he doesn't want to be there.

For the rest of this season he is driving purely for himself, which absolutely destroys any remaining team dynamic.

You got the point right, I totally agree with you.
Vettel was number one in Ferrari but he stopped performing well and Leclerc is the number one driver now due to his performance status.

[coinlocket$]

Another complaint against the pink Mercedes way too similar to the last year Mercedes.

This time is the Duck Brake, they already sequestered the items, and the draw, if they will be equal Mercedes, will be in trouble.

They are talking about the inside part of the item, not the outside so there is was no way to copy it without having the draw.

[dre1982]

Ferrari needs to instantly change drivers.
There is not clear to them who is the first driver and who is the second in the team.
This is why drivers collide in so many races. The problem is administrative in the team and needs to be solved as soon as possible.

Ferrari need to get rid of Vettel right now. Unfortunately they can't.
Vettel used to be undisputed lead driver at Ferrari. He has since been outperformed by Leclerc, and has lost that number one status. To make things worse, he was apparently not even offered a new contract. He is driving for a team who have lost faith in him, and I'm sure given what's happened and the extremely poor car they have this year, he has lost faith in them, too.

Vettel is no longer a Ferrari driver, he is simply a driver in a Ferrari car. They don't want him there, he doesn't want to be there.

For the rest of this season he is driving purely for himself, which absolutely destroys any remaining team dynamic.

You got the point right, I totally agree with you.
Vettel was number one in Ferrari but he stopped performing well and Leclerc is the number one driver now due to his performance status.

Vettel is just dissapointed in Ferrari and you can see that on everything. They kicked him out for next season so why should he still do is best.

I think he would be happy when this season is over.

[coinlocket$]

With hard tires already faster than last year... performance

source: https://motorsportclan.com/f1/2020/ungheria-prove-gara-diretta-oggi/

[swogerino]

It is raining in Hungaroring and maybe we will see a wet qualifying session which I hope we do as we can see some really strange end results.Not all drivers drive equally in the rain and in this kind of scenario we can see that the most brave and bold driver to risk more than others can achieve pole position.Of course in rainy days cars do not use their full power so drivers can show more their skills.

[coinlocket$]

FP2 was under the rain yesterday with Vettel in Top 1 but drivers like Hamilton didn't even complete 1 lap



Source: https://www.automoto.it/formula1/f1-gp-ungheria-2020-fp2-vettel-al-top.html

So the time is probably a lie on the strength of Ferrari

FP3 will start in 15 minutes

[-CryptoViking-]

After watching FP3 I must say that the fight for the 3rd place on the grid will be very tight and interesting.Ferrari looks much better then in Austria , but Hungaroring is much slower track so that helps them.

Pink Mercedes will be in the mix and the Red Bulls. After that it's up for grabs between Mclaren, Renault and Alpha Tauri.

This is in case that there is no rain, but during FP3 it was visible that very dark clouds were looming over the track so rain is quite a possibility.


FP3 Results:

[Cnut237]

Ferrari looks much better then in Austria , but Hungaroring is much slower track so that helps them.

I think a lot of the reason the Ferrari is so poor this year is that private settlement they made about their illegal engine last year.

It takes a long time to design a car, and when they started building this year's, it was based on the expectation that they'd still be able to use last year's engine. Their new design gave them the increased downforce they were missing, and it must have been that the old engine combined with the new design meant that they kept sufficient speed as well. So what happened when the rules forced them to reduce the power of the engine was not only that it meant they would have less power in 2020, but also, and crucially, that their new 'increased downforce' car would now have to work with an engine that wasn't suitable. The whole thing is a mess for Ferrari, and weirdly, if they'd played by the rules in 2019 then the chances are they'd now have a much better car for 2020. This season is already a write-off for them. I certainly wouldn't bet on them being top 3 constructors, which seems an absurd state of affairs for a name as illustrious as Ferrari.

[-CryptoViking-]

Ferrari looks much better then in Austria , but Hungaroring is much slower track so that helps them.

I think a lot of the reason the Ferrari is so poor this year is that private settlement they made about their illegal engine last year.

It takes a long time to design a car, and when they started building this year's, it was based on the expectation that they'd still be able to use last year's engine. Their new design gave them the increased downforce they were missing, and it must have been that the old engine combined with the new design meant that they kept sufficient speed as well. So what happened when the rules forced them to reduce the power of the engine was not only that it meant they would have less power in 2020, but also, and crucially, that their new 'increased downforce' car would now have to work with an engine that wasn't suitable. The whole thing is a mess for Ferrari, and weirdly, if they'd played by the rules in 2019 then the chances are they'd now have a much better car for 2020. This season is already a write-off for them. I certainly wouldn't bet on them being top 3 constructors, which seems an absurd state of affairs for a name as illustrious as Ferrari.

The stuff with Ferrari engine is not that they didn't play by the rules, but they went into a gray area. The pressure from Red Bull and Merc was so high that FIA succumbed and went to investigate. The conclusion was something along these lines:

FIA - We don't really know what is illegal and we can't find it or prove it, but we know that something is illegal

Ferrari - we know something might be illegal or very close to that and we don't want FIA to continue checking our engine and air the findings to Red Bull and Merc which can be most likely modified and bring advantage to them too

Solution: FIA and Ferrari make an agreement where FIA does not look further and Ferrari stop using that grey area aspect of the engine, pays a fine, but at least no other teams has a an idea what they were doing and maybe they get a chance to use that later in the future if rules change

Then you get this season where they have badly underperforming engine cos they didn't have time for development in other direction or finding a new grey area trick, like Merc with DAS.

[coinlocket$]

I think a lot of the reason the Ferrari is so poor this year is that private settlement they made about their illegal engine last year.

Yeah and not it seems Mercedes is doing the same thing as Ferrari was doing last year.
If you watched the FP3 you saw a lot of white smoke from Mercedes like Ferrari last year...


Anyway, Mercedes can always do what they want, do you remember the illegal holes 2 years ago on the tires?


Ferrari is looking better but the "pink Mercedes" is OP.


Perez and Stroll on top in Q1 LOL.

[boltz]

I think a lot of the reason the Ferrari is so poor this year is that private settlement they made about their illegal engine last year.

Yeah and not it seems Mercedes is doing the same thing as Ferrari was doing last year.
If you watched the FP3 you saw a lot of white smoke from Mercedes like Ferrari last year...


Anyway, Mercedes can always do what they want, do you remember the illegal holes 2 years ago on the tires?


Ferrari is looking better but the "pink Mercedes" is OP.


Perez and Stroll on top in Q1 LOL.

All the Mercedes engines are getting white smokes from the back of the car ( Racing Point , Williams and even Mercedes on Bottas had this problem ) so the race tomorrow will be a hard test for this engine to last this long.

What I find most surprising is the fact that Williams qualify with both teams on Q3 and almost made it in Q1 with Russel ( 12th spot ).

Now, let's talk a little about FIA investigating Racing point car as they think that car is the complete Mercedes W8 from 2019 and to be honest you cannot copy a car from scratch just by looking at the photos as you need a lot of super detail things to make that car going this fast. A reply from the FIA is expected just before the Silverstone and I'm curious what they will do about it...


PS : Q3 will be nice to watch as Ferrari seems closer to Mercedes.

[coinlocket$]

All the Mercedes engines are getting white smokes from the back of the car ( Racing Point , Williams and even Mercedes on Bottas had this problem ) so the race tomorrow will be a hard test for this engine to last this long.

The white smoke is the thing that Ferrari was using (probably caused by the use of the oil on their engine) and Fia removed it.
After that, the Ferrari engine lost according to SKYsports 50hps.

Ferrari and Honda removed that secret thing but now it seems Mercedes engines are using it.

Redbull is now thinking to complain about it.

[boltz]

All the Mercedes engines are getting white smokes from the back of the car ( Racing Point , Williams and even Mercedes on Bottas had this problem ) so the race tomorrow will be a hard test for this engine to last this long.

The white smoke is the thing that Ferrari was using (probably caused by the use of the oil on their engine) and Fia removed it.
After that, the Ferrari engine lost according to SKYsports 50hps.

Ferrari and Honda removed that secret thing but now it seems Mercedes engines are using it.

Redbull is now thinking to complain about it.

If that is real, then we will have a huge incoming storm towards all Mercedes engines and I'm curious how will FIA react this time. Do you have any sources about this problem ? or are just speculation ? I know that in 2014 Mercedes removed this power unit problem and oil + gasoline thing but honestly I have my doubts that this is happening again.

RedBull are crying everytime they consider something is against them so nothing unusual here...still , Verstappen deserves a better car man...he's the only one on the grid who can make Hamilton afraid on wheel to wheel.

[-CryptoViking-]

All the Mercedes engines are getting white smokes from the back of the car ( Racing Point , Williams and even Mercedes on Bottas had this problem ) so the race tomorrow will be a hard test for this engine to last this long.

The white smoke is the thing that Ferrari was using (probably caused by the use of the oil on their engine) and Fia removed it.
After that, the Ferrari engine lost according to SKYsports 50hps.

Ferrari and Honda removed that secret thing but now it seems Mercedes engines are using it.

Redbull is now thinking to complain about it.

Merc can do whatever they want to for the last 6 years...

It’s not in Tifosi blood to complain about others cars, so I avoid that too, as I am one since I was 6 years old. I always focus on my team and what my team can do better, I believe that is the right approach, karma catches up to everyone eventually.

Regarding Pink Mercedes, it is not about copying the entire car, only thing that is under the investigation is the design or rather the process of designing the brake ducts and wether those brake ducts or the process used to design the brake ducts was the same as Merc team had.

That came from FIA and they are only investigating that part so far.

Otherwise, quite happy with quali results all things considering and happy to finally see Stroll connect a full lap. He is seen as a rich mans son, bit that boy has some real pace in him and just needs to learn to restrain the desire a bit at certains times and he will become more consistent and faster.

Should be really interesting and probably a thriller race tomorrow, especially if rain decides to bless us with her wet presence 😂

[coinlocket$]

If that is real, then we will have a huge incoming storm towards all Mercedes engines and I'm curious how will FIA react this time. Do you have any sources about this problem ? or are just speculation ? I know that in 2014 Mercedes removed this power unit problem and oil + gasoline thing but honestly I have my doubts that this is happening again.

RedBull are crying everytime they consider something is against them so nothing unusual here...still , Verstappen deserves a better car man...he's the only one on the grid who can make Hamilton afraid on wheel to wheel.

For now is only a speculation since they can't prove anything but as you can may see is quite suspicius.

[tokeweed]

All the Mercedes engines are getting white smokes from the back of the car ( Racing Point , Williams and even Mercedes on Bottas had this problem ) so the race tomorrow will be a hard test for this engine to last this long.

The white smoke is the thing that Ferrari was using (probably caused by the use of the oil on their engine) and Fia removed it.
After that, the Ferrari engine lost according to SKYsports 50hps.

Ferrari and Honda removed that secret thing but now it seems Mercedes engines are using it.

Redbull is now thinking to complain about it.

If that is real, then we will have a huge incoming storm towards all Mercedes engines and I'm curious how will FIA react this time. Do you have any sources about this problem ? or are just speculation ? I know that in 2014 Mercedes removed this power unit problem and oil + gasoline thing but honestly I have my doubts that this is happening again.

RedBull are crying everytime they consider something is against them so nothing unusual here...still , Verstappen deserves a better car man...he's the only one on the grid who can make Hamilton afraid on wheel to wheel.

There's a clause in Verstappen's contract that if RBR doesn't build him a car that takes him to a specified number of podiums or something like that, he could hear offers from other teams and leave.

It points him to moving to Merc in a year or two.

[boltz]

If that is real, then we will have a huge incoming storm towards all Mercedes engines and I'm curious how will FIA react this time. Do you have any sources about this problem ? or are just speculation ? I know that in 2014 Mercedes removed this power unit problem and oil + gasoline thing but honestly I have my doubts that this is happening again.

RedBull are crying everytime they consider something is against them so nothing unusual here...still , Verstappen deserves a better car man...he's the only one on the grid who can make Hamilton afraid on wheel to wheel.

For now is only a speculation since they can't prove anything but as you can may see is quite suspicius.

True, that is suspicious I must say it but lets see how far FIA will investigate those engines and power units of Mercedes. To be honest it all started with Williams doing Q2 and almost Q3 right ? Also they have strong race pace and I'm curious tomorrow how well they will perform. On the other side, look at Ferrari's engines man, with Alfa Romeo and Haas being last on the grid...what a shame my favorite driver, Kimi, on the last place of the grid.

[coinlocket$]

True, that is suspicious I must say it but lets see how far FIA will investigate those engines and power units of Mercedes. To be honest it all started with Williams doing Q2 and almost Q3 right ? Also they have strong race pace and I'm curious tomorrow how well they will perform. On the other side, look at Ferrari's engines man, with Alfa Romeo and Haas being last on the grid...what a shame my favorite driver, Kimi, on the last place of the grid.

Yeah, they need time to recover.
As SKY said, with the protest done by RedBull and Mercedes, Ferrari lost around 50 Horses power...

Imagine if now Mercedes is doing the same thing removed by FIA to Ferrari in a different way to elude the regulation...

[Cnut237]

There's a clause in Verstappen's contract that if RBR doesn't build him a car that takes him to a specified number of podiums or something like that, he could hear offers from other teams and leave.

It points him to moving to Merc in a year or two.

He definitely deserves a better car, and I'd agree he's one of the few F1 drivers who can challenge Hamilton on talent alone. Alonso will be another when he returns.
I can't see Verstappen getting a Mercedes drive until Hamilton retires though. There's no way they'd risk having Hamilton and Verstappen on the same team after the chaos of the Hamilton/Rosberg years. Bottas is the perfect Merc second driver. He's a good driver, but more importantly he's a committed team player, and the dynamic with Hamilton is very good.